Edgeborn he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Rider of Storms said: Trell is almost certainly related to (or an aspect of) Autonomy, at this point. Why do you say that? Everything I've seen has led me to believe Trell is more the opposite of Autonomy. Plus, I thought Autonomy was chilling as the sun in the Taldain system?
Steeldancer he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 Damnation. I'm re reading this right now, and I don't get the complaints about how the love triangle was handled. Yes, we didn't get Kaladin Shallan making out. If that's what you were looking for, well, im sorry. But gosh... it's a constant undertext. When Shallan faces Kaladin... Kaladin isn't what she needs. she struggles with her psyche through this entire book. Her decision goes all the way back to part 3. Adolin, every time he is there for her, helps to keep her together. Kaladin.... just doesn't. The end isnt an arbitrary decision. Brandon did not ignore this plot point. Kaladin even realized what he saw in Shallan was how she is like Tien, something I suspect all Lightweavers are able to do. And finally, Kaladin doesnt need a relationship. I almost feel... like if he is forced into a relationship, it would be bad for him. Storms, reading this book again there is so much more under the surface. I love it. So yeah. I don't think Kaladin will be in any relationships soon. He needs to make more growth. 5
Edgeborn he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Steeldancer said: Damnation. I'm re reading this right now, and I don't get the complaints about how the love triangle was handled. Yes, we didn't get Kaladin Shallan making out. If that's what you were looking for, well, im sorry. YES I'VE BEEN READING ALL THESE POSTS AND I JUST DON'T GET IT. People complain that Shallan and Adolin being so happy together with "true love doesnt happen like that." First of all, that's how all good relationships begin, head over heels for each other. Brandon isn't saying they're perfectly in love, but that kind of happy flirting and sappy romance always happens once you get comfortable with someone. Furthermore, Kaladin and Shallan REALLY ARE BAD FOR EACH OTHER. Kaladin admires her for how she surpresses her emotions and she only likes him when her manufactured thief and underworld personality is showing through. Normally, two people with dark pasts would be able to support each other, but in this case they have much the same problems, and Adolins teddy bear kindness is what she needs more than a spearman with the emotional intelligence of a rock. Also, to all the Adolin haters, he isn't just a daddy's money pretty boy. His mom died when he was young, and for a lot of the time his dad was a neglectfully abusive alcoholic. At the same time, he poured himself into dueling to get his father's approval, and we see with Shallan's POVs of him interacting that even though he's a flirt that gets girls easily, he still has trouble with everyone else playing the games of the political world, and has relatively few friends. Also, as far as "ew Brandon wrote a love triangle," it MAKES SENSE. Kaladin really would admire and find himself attracted to Shallan's repression of her emotions, because his own depression is unavoidable. Shallan would like him back because he provides safety from what she fears: her own emotions. He's someone that would understand her suffering and understand it for his own. But THAT ISN'T WHAT SHE NEEDS. She needs to open herself up, not find company in closure. Adolin is such a genuine and well-meaning person, and what he wants is for Shallan to be herself. I love to death the scene where Shallan's personalities are flickering through, and Adolin recognizes the real one, and his love for her shows through in his stupidly misguided attempt to release their engagement so she can pursue Kaladin. He really wants her to be happy. Tl;dr: love triangles don't suck if they actually make sense and don't become the end-all focus of the story. 7
Khyrindor he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Edgeborn said: Why do you say that? Everything I've seen has led me to believe Trell is more the opposite of Autonomy. Plus, I thought Autonomy was chilling as the sun in the Taldain system? In Canon: (Full spoilers for Cosmere) In spoiler box as it is off topic from the thread for the most part: Spoiler Paalm the Kandra in SoS is obsessed with 'freeing' people from Harmony's oppression. Brandon has confirmed that the black and red spike the team recovered is from a Shard we know (this WoB came right after we got confirmation of Autonomy's Intent). It has been hinted at that Shard's Intents are very up for interpretation, and depending on the willpower of the Vessel, some can act very differently than we expect. In Khriss's essays about Taldain: "Autonomy's policy o isolationism in recent times (in direct contrast to her interference with other planets, I might add) has prevented travel to and from Taldain for many, many years." This makes it sound like Autonomy has a history of interfering with planets, which the second letter in the Part Two epigraphs confirm. Brandon has talked about Bavadin being very interesting, creating 'Pantheons' that worship her, where each aspect is actually her as well, and that she has been both male and female over the years. Someone also asked about Trell, and Brandon signed in their book (IIRC) "Trell has been many things over the eons." This is eerily similar. The Trelagism religion speaks about the worshippers being from a place with a very odd day/night system, and Taldain is tidally locked. I also have some further theories that affect the way I think of this. Feel free to inbox me if you're interested. There are also some things that come from Unpublished works that provide further evidence, but I don't think I'm allowed to comment on them out here. Again, I can let you know if you inbox me. Edited November 23, 2017 by Rider of Storms 4
Subvisual Haze Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Edgeborn said: Why do you say that? Everything I've seen has led me to believe Trell is more the opposite of Autonomy. Plus, I thought Autonomy was chilling as the sun in the Taldain system? Brandon also had an amusing quote about Bavadin, the vessel of Autonomy. Quote Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular. This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her. So Bavadin likes messing with mortals. I think Trellism originally was an anti-Autonomy darkside of Taldain religion, but modern Trellism is just Bavadin ironically co-opting the name of the old religion for her/his own purposes.
Hiadin Haloun he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Edgeborn said: Tl;dr: love triangles don't suck if they actually make sense and don't become the end-all focus of the story. Thank you! Also, I don't think this can actually be considered a love triangle, except in the forums. There is no actual interactions of love, or relationship between them. An inside joke is not the same as dating. She has emotions yes, but never talks to Kal about these emotions. She is actively courting Adolin. For it to be live triangle she would have had to have gone on at least one date with the bridgeboy, which never happened. 2
IllNsickly he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Hiadin Haloun said: Thank you! Also, I don't think this can actually be considered a love triangle, except in the forums. There is no actual interactions of love, or relationship between them. An inside joke is not the same as dating. She has emotions yes, but never talks to Kal about these emotions. She is actively courting Adolin. For it to be live triangle she would have had to have gone on at least one date with the bridgeboy, which never happened. Well, there was that whole Chasm suvival thing. I'd consider that an EPIC first date. (Tongue in Cheek, here...) While I can see the usefulness of the Love Triangle, especially in Shallan's... Umm... Condition? They are always terribly painful for me to read through. I hope this is the cap that closes this particular Triangle.
manugutito he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 18 hours ago, Edgeborn said: OK SO THE LETTERS FROM PART TWO. I've seen a lot of speculation on them, and according to the Coppermind and general theory, the second was written by Autonomy (Or someone representing them) because Brandon has confirmed all the letters are from shards we know, and the third is obviously Sazed, the first probably Endowment. HOWEVER, I think the second letter instead comes from Trell. EVIDENCE: Trell's "faceless immortal" from BoM consistently referred to Trell or the general leaders the Set followed as "us" or "we." The second letter follows this pattern, though it does seem to be penned by something other than the shard, saying "you have spoken to one who cannot respond." This leads into my first theory about Trell. Trell is diametrically opposed to Autonomy, instead being the shard of unity or conformity, making everyone under its power the same, bound in a sort of hive mind. It explains the "faceless immortal," because Trell simply brought the beggar into their fold, making his mind a part of a larger whole. It explains why the one Hoid wrote to "cannot respond," as he wrote to the Shards original holder, but their consciousness has been blended with the minds of everyone under Trell's power. Furthermore, the letter also mentions "our many realms." This supports the idea that Trell is connected with the Scar (red band of stars across the sky in the Cosmere, connected because the threat to Scadrial is shown also as red smoke by Sazed.) The Scar is in reality all of the worlds and systems Trell has conquered. A looser connection, but it makes more sense when you think about it: wouldn't Trell, shard of conformity or unity, want everyone to be under his control, to be the same? Therefore, he/she/they would expand and expand, and now Scadrial is their obstacle. That conquest is also referenced in Obrodai, the world "we have claimed," suggesting a world that fell rather than succeeded. I immediately remembered that Brandon was/is planning a series where the main character is destined to destroy the world, and that seems pretty conveniently paralleled, as Obrodai sounds to be somewhere of great significance that Hoid is being warned away from. The main characters role in destruction there could be giving in to Trell. It all makes sense and fits together, if anyone notices flaws, please let me know so I can try to address them. So far the consensus seems to be Endowment-Autonomy-Harmony, but I'm not really big on the first two. I can see Autonomy (the "alone" and "need not suffer the interference" parts). On Endowment, however, I am not sure at all. Simple elimination? I am not trying to suggest anything else, I just don't know the pro-Endowment arguments, other than "it is a Shard we know" and a process of elimination. 1
Blacksmithki Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 38 minutes ago, manugutito said: So far the consensus seems to be Endowment-Autonomy-Harmony, but I'm not really big on the first two. I can see Autonomy (the "alone" and "need not suffer the interference" parts). On Endowment, however, I am not sure at all. Simple elimination? I am not trying to suggest anything else, I just don't know the pro-Endowment arguments, other than "it is a Shard we know" and a process of elimination. Autonomy is also known to be very expansive, with multiple entire pantheons made up of copies of him, so that's a chunk of the reasoning, as that fits pretty nicely into the letter. I do believe there was a discussion about this on whatever the thread where someone collected al the epigraphs.
NightFrost Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 You know I really wanted to post this in part 5 reactions but that doesn't exist but is no one else excited about this. DUEL WIELDING SHARDBLADES i mean come on whats better then one blade while two of course. I know we already knew it was possible but come on seeing it in action is awesome. 1
Aleksiel Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Cognizantastic said: I really, really thought that Sebarial was about to be crowned king of Alethkar. I can imagine him negotiating to reschedule the Final Desolation for a more convenient time 2
NE Windrunner he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Just finished last night and LOVED it!!! A few of thoughts... - I'm torn about Kaladin's next words in that I want to know what they are soooooo badly but I also think Brandon was smart to not have Kal say them yet. I don't think we want to see Kal as a full 5th Ideal Radiant until the very end of the first 5 books (if we ever see it). HOW DO YOU GET FREAKING SHARDPLATE?!?!?!?!?! I was really thinking 4th Ideal =Shardplate but either I'm incorrect on that or Jasnah just doesn't feel the need to summon hers? Warbreaker 2 has to happen right? RIGHT?!?! Nightblood might be my favorite Sanderson character. I legit cried about Elhokar, never have I hated a character so much only to have them completely redeem themse- So Brandon has said before (no quote, sorry!) that he has no problem writing from the POV of a dead character. Eshonai is clearly one of those that he was talking about so I wonder if the focus of her flashback book in the present will be Venli? I'm very interested in how this plays out. I need to know what is going to happen with Adolin and Maya. I have always been firmly in the "I want Adolin to be a Radiant" camp until I finished this book. My fondest wish is that Adolin will find a way to save/resurrect Maya but find a way to circumvent the Nahel bond. Not sure how/if that will work but I just don't see Adolin as a Radiant, hes just not broken, yet... I'm super scared that someone on Odium's side is going to become a Bondsmith, do we know what other spren you would bond to become one of the other 2 Bondsmiths? I'm assuming the Nightwatcher is one but what is the third? Is there a spren of Odium that I'm missing? Is that even possible? Moash vs Kal 11:00pm on Showtime $99 if you want to watch the pay per view. So Azure is Vivenna but what's up with her sword? So Is Hoid going to bond with what I'm assuming is Elhokar's spren? I thought he already had access to lightweaving but was not necessarily a radiant, is he now? Is this kind of like when he steals the Lerasium bead? Hope you all enjoyed it as much as I did, cheers! 2
Giubba Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Hello everyone newcomer here. I've finished the book yesterday and i have mixed feeling about it. I've found part that are really really really cool, with well written sequence great action and cleaver dialogue but on the other hand there are big chunk of the books that to me looked too much fragmented (especially at the beginning) with those small chapters and the continuous switch between POVs . Also the whole cosmere multiverse thing it was too invasive this time around, i really don't like how Azure is another mysterious traveler from another world hunting for something not from this world that has little to none relevance with the stormlight archive saga. I thought that the basic idea of the cosmere was that it would be a marginal background element in all the series Sanderson would write until it would coalescence in a final series of book where everything would be explained but imho this time the cosmere was far from being marginal or in the background.
Khyrindor he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, NE Windrunner said: So Is Hoid going to bond with what I'm assuming is Elhokar's spren? I thought he already had access to lightweaving but was not necessarily a radiant, is he now? Is this kind of like when he steals the Lerasium bead? He may have Lightweaving, but the Spren bond will also grant him Soulcasting, a Shardblade, possibly Shardplate, and the ability to use Stormlight. Edited November 24, 2017 by Rider of Storms 3
Willow Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Rider of Storms said: He may have Lightweaving, but the Spren bond will also grant him Soulcasting, a Shardblade, possibly Shardplate, and the ability to use Stormlight. Those things do sound like advantages on top of the Lightweaving he already has. However, I wonder if bonding a spren will impact his ability to worldhop in any negative way, since apparently it's difficult for spren. That might become a problem when Odium figures out Wit is on Roshar and he needs to make a quick exit..
Khyrindor he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 33 minutes ago, Willow said: Those things do sound like advantages on top of the Lightweaving he already has. However, I wonder if bonding a spren will impact his ability to worldhop in any negative way, since apparently it's difficult for spren. That might become a problem when Odium figures out Wit is on Roshar and he needs to make a quick exit.. It's difficult, but if anyone, Hoid will find ways around it. It's also possible he only needs the spren for a temporary goal.
Willow Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Rider of Storms said: It's difficult, but if anyone, Hoid will find ways around it. It's also possible he only needs the spren for a temporary goal. I do hope if that's the case, that when he unbonds the spren, he will do it using the mutually accepting way Brandon Sanderson has hinted at, and not the rather brutal way it happened during the Recreance (which is what I'm afraid of, if he's in a hurry, especially after Hoid's 'my goals are more important than the people of Roshar' speech). That poor spren's been through enough already.
Khyrindor he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Willow said: I do hope if that's the case, that when he unbonds the spren, he will do it using the mutually accepting way Brandon Sanderson has hinted at, and not the rather brutal way it happened during the Recreance (which is what I'm afraid of, if he's in a hurry, especially after Hoid's 'my goals are more important than the people of Roshar' speech). That poor spren's been through enough already. I feel the same way. I'll have to look out for any mention of a spren around Hoid in Mistborn Era Two; maybe there's evidence.
+Kapin Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 A bit late to the party, as I just finished last night and am travelling in China right now. That was absolutely mindblowing. So much new cosmere stuff and character development. The scope of this book felt so massive but so personal (I loved the bridge 4 viewpoints). Also the final battle was just perfect. Dalinar’s moment was perfect and was so powerful. For the Wheel of Time readers, the final battle reminded me a lot of another very very long chapter that Brandon wrote in the final book there. It’s like he took what he did there and honed it to absolute perfection here. I still can’t get over how good this was and just want more.
Secret Ardent Man Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 I just want to say that Dalinar is the badassinest badass who ever badassed. 2
lastofus Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) Ok I cannot read the whole topic again to see if it was mentioned. But did anyone notice Dalinar recognizing Szeth as a Skybreaker? Quote Those two only make nine, he thought to the Stormfather. Something told him there should be one more. Brandon Sanderson. Oathbringer (Kindle Locations 22249-22250). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Did he sense Venli or Rysn? Odium cannot face Dalinar again, if he does, he have to name a champion, he's now bound by that. I really want to see him try storm-calling Venli again. Edited November 26, 2017 by lastofus
Cephandrius Everstorm Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 DESTROY, DESTROY, DESTROY... "you are impatient with killing the evil, sword-nimi!" DESTROY EVIL!!! Oh man I feel nightblood's frustration, I was sitting there reading like YESSSS NIGHTBLOOD! DESTROY THAT EVIL!!! (as he sees it anyways) (And Lift and nightblood sidequest? Yes, please! They have such a lovely and common understanding for the need of consumption! In other notes. "I am Unity." That line, that storming line! And Dalinar temporarily uniting the three realms made my jaw drop. Was I the only one who thought that "Unity" was a new shard and that gloryspren was this shards investiture (realized after that they were just drawn to the glorious act of ascension but still I was freaking out here. I also thought that "Unity" may turn to be the united shards of Honor and Cultivation, and even perhaps, a three-in-one unity of Honor, Cultivation, and ma'boy Odium! I have always looked at Dalinar's quest to "Unite them" as much broader in scope than merely the people of Roshar, and perhaps even more than simply, the shards of Roshar "Unite THEM"... all of them... all 16! On that note, how about my namesake, Cephandrius, bonding that cryptic. This highly-invested world hopper is an awakened, a mistborn, and on his way to be a lightweaver and likely is working his way, and is well on his way, to being invested by the rest of the shards. After all when you can worldhop and go under the eye of 2/16ths of God unnoticed (here's looking at you Sazed, my OG hero of ages! *possible need for redaction*) then why couldn't you gather all the investiture you need to say, I don't know, UNITE THEM! (Though I figure the eventual unity of Adonalsium will be brought together not by any one individual, but nevertheless this witty worldhopper will have a willful weighing in on this worldbreaking wonder! (and I do think this is an eventuality, God isn't going to stay broken forever is he?) Moving on to Scadrialin things. The "Evi is Vivenna" theories I heard was already making me look for Vivenna so Azure was fantastic and satisfying, but not totally unexpected as I have been looking for her since my reread of WoK and realizing Zahel's true identity. All in all it speaks of awesomeness to me... and speaking of awesomeness... who else absolutely loved Lift popping up in Dalinar's visions? And how the heck did she do this by the way? Her connection to cultivation? The fact that she exists partly in the cognitive/spiritual realm (i forget which but there is some reason she can grab hold of wyndle/her spren in the physical realm)? As always, Brandon Sanderson leaves us with many questions but definitely had such a satisfying conclusion to this third book of awesomeness and I for one and Stormin starvin for more!
vividox Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 Just finished last night. Wow. Wow. Chaos' spoiler-free review was not wrong. That was one of the best fantasy books I've ever read. Loved the lore and the double-Sanderlanche. Notable reactions: I had a very clear and precise moment when it finally clicked in my head that Azure = Vivenna. For some reason the name Azure didn't make it click, but the cape wrapping around her arm did. I had to put the book down, jump up and down a bit, and say WOW about sixteen times before I could get it together and read any more, I was so excited. I really liked getting to see some extended time in Shademar and the first glimpse of spren civilization. Dalinar's entire story arc was exceptional. His backstory was brutal, but the way it all came together and allowed him to be exactly where he needed to be to capture Nergaoul was excellent. I also really liked the Venli story arc. When she started saying the words, oh man. The feels. I'll be really interested to see where her arc goes from here. I'm guessing the Eshonai book is going to have Eshonai flashbacks and focus mainly on Venli? The book set up perfectly for Szeth's Book 4... Elhokar getting killed right as he was saying the first ideal... brutal. Effing Moash. SMH. The Battle of Thaylen City was so epic. One of the coolest battle sequences I've ever read, and that came after the Kholinar battle, which, up to that point, was one of the coolest battle sequences I've ever read. Jasnah as Queen? Interesting. Did... did Hoid just become a Knight Radiant?! There is just so much to process now. Time to start going through this thread and seeing what I missed... 1
vividox Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 Oh my God, and I forgot to mention. Adolin and Maya was AWESOME. When he summoned her at just seven heartbeats... holy cow that was awesome. He's healing his Shardblade! 2
vividox Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/14/2017 at 4:37 PM, Kalinovsky said: That was possibly the most intense thing I've ever read. I bought this book at 10am, and now it's 5:30 pm and I'm done. Adolin and Shallan are perfect together, and none will ever convince me otherwise. Totally not book related, but how is it possible to read this book in 7.5 hours? Haha. I must be a super slow reader, or maybe I just like time to digest, but I'm doing well if I can cover 400 pages in that amount of time.
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