Bridge Boy

Who has been the physical embodiment of Honor more than Szeth? Plus this is his flashback book, yes? I think Szeth ascends to Honor or no one does.

I had not considered this as a potential option. Now that I have read it though, it is my most fervent hope for the book. I really despise what BS is doing to the series with this character.

@AonEne Big fan of the manner in which you have articulated an adverse opinion. Civilly expressing and internalizing contrasting opinions is immensely valuable. Love to see it. Candidly, I worry that Brandon's overwhelming success has led him to disregard feedback that he may have taken in prior years, and it is resulting in a product that is, obviously extremely subjectively, worse. I would love to know if the editors had similar feedback to some of the items that I have noted. Were these types of comments disregarded, is Brandon only surrounded by people giving him praise, or am I within a small minority that is seeing this as a clear drop in quality? I would be disappointed to find that to be true. I would think Brandon would prioritize quality above all else, even in the face of schedule pressures. His work rate is unrivaled, as is his transparency into the development process. His audience would easily forgive a delay to improve the overall quality of the book.

Yes this! I find myself losing immersion, and unable to continue to suspend my disbelief given the lack of setting, odd/clunky dialogue, and characters acting like caricatures in contrast to complex fleshed out individuals of WOK & WOR. It is becoming more like a super hero comic book in terms of character depth and decision making. I suppose for some that may be a good thing. For me that does not work and feels like a departure from where I thought the series was going based on the first two installments. I expected characters that feel real experiencing fantastical circumstances.

The whole series has been in steady decline since words of radiance. It is as if his outline for the series is still extremely good, and his plot secrets waiting to be revealed at various points of the outline are still exceptional. But everything that needs to be written to get from one plot point to the next is utter trash. The pace is rushed, the dialogue is awful, the characters no longer speak or interact as real people do, and the setting is completely lost. Truth be told, these pre-release chapters have been worse than most fanfic. I want it to be otherwise. I want these books to be good, but unfortunately, it is not so. Where are Brandon's editors on this? Is there no one willing to speak up and say, "Brandon, mate. This stuff is bad. Lets delay the release and get this done better in a rewrite."

@Sovieticozasz I agree with you completely. This is a good example to me of my main issue with the most recent two stormlight archive books. I genuinely feel that Sanderson has lost his original vision and understanding of many of his characters over the course of Oathbringer & Rhythm of War. The characters now exist solely as a mechanism to see the super cool story happen, as if they are just witnessing it rather than influencing it; like pretty wall paper. The deep complicated characters that drove the plot in realistic ways through the original two books, now appear to be just caricatures of themselves; over pronouncing the elements that were originally so subtle. I feel "Cringe" reading these characters now and how "on the nose" all of their actions are, and how often things just happen without their choices really mattering at all, in order to move the plot along. It feels contrived with many of the characters' actions not aligning with how real they felt in the first two books. I long for the days when Sanderson's immersion was world class, and the characters felt like real people.

Way of Kings & Words of Radiance were excellent books, with WOR probably taking the slight edge in my eyes. I felt Oathbreaker & Rhythm of War were both awful books for a variety of reasons I have mentioned in other posts. Books 1 & 2 were so exceptional though, that I still have hope the series will return to form in book 5.

I stil cannot fathom why Dalinar and to a greater extent Jasnah thought it would be a good idea to agree to a contest of champions. Odium’s forces are at the height of their powers. The have been unchanged for millennia and have zero potential to progress or change what they are doing. Where as Dalinar is a novice with his bondsmith abilities. He only has two radiants above the 3rd ideal. They just bonded the sibling and the Human advancement of Fabrial technology is light years ahead of what the enemy is capable of producing themselves. The Radiants are not far away from a point of progression where they would easily dominate this conflict/war. This “Contest of Champions” looks to be the only possible way odium could win; yet they agree to it anyway. It baffles me.

The main question for me is; what is the real cause of the recreance? Why did the radiants dismantle? The only thing I can think is they were headed towards massive technological advancement (i.e. the manhattan project but fueled by storm light). Maybe they even used that sort of power and after seeing the damage done they decided the only way to preserve Roshar was to dismantle.

To clarify, I finished my 2nd, slower, read of Oathbringer today. Issues that I had upon my 1st read were more pronounced and the positives were more withdrawn. I find myself liking it less. This is odd for me as I always enjoy Brandon's books more on the 2nd read. With that said, I thought Oathbringer was poor. I loved the book because the stormlight archive is my favorite series, and I have been breathlessly waiting for it's release for 3 years, but it was not an exceptional book as I have come to expect with Brandon Sanderson. It has many specific issues that I have highlighted in multiple posts on 17thshard since it's release. I just genuinely wish that Brandon would stop messing around with all of these others series and would instead solely focus on giving us his best for the stormlight archive. He's taken on many projects since writing WoK & WoR and I speculate that this may have something to do with OB being so underwhelming. I love Brandon's books and I want them to be exceptional, and I have every faith that he will be able to turn it around for book 4. But I do have to say that I am quite disappointed. As it stands I rank them: 1. Words of Radiance 2. Way of Kings 3. Oathbringer

*This is a long post. (read: rant) This underwhelming reveal is the heart of the issue I had with Oathbringer. In general the book reminded me a lot of the later seasons of "The Walking Dead": - All the characters from early on that I love are still there; however, the focus is placed on them doing "cool things" and they have become caricatures of the deep multi dimensional characters that were established in prior books/episodes. & - The interesting plot lines that were promised are not progressed in a satisfying manner to deliver on the promises that were made in the earlier books/episodes. All I see/read in Oathbringer is, "here is character that you love; watch him/her do this cool thing; now watch him/her do this cool thing; isn't this character so cool?" All of that would be well and fine if their individual and "overall series" plot lines were also moving towards conclusion in satisfying ways. But in Oathbringer that was not the case. -Kaladin's story line does not progress. -Shallan's storyline not only doesn't progress; it regresses. -Dalinar progressed. But not in the way I hoped. The backstory was satisfying in many ways but was so predictable that it felt stale. I was dying for him to become Odium's champion. How incredible would that have been? Think of what something like that would have done to Adolin, Shallan, Navani, Kaladin, and Jasnah. Imagine the repercussions and just total anarchy that would ensue amongst the knights radiant. But no, instead we get "dues ex machine" Dalinar resists and happy-go-lucky ending. -Jasnah does not progress. We get zero inkling of what she learned in the cognitive realm. Yes she was "super cool" in that battle scene. I enjoyed that. But what in damnation does she know that she is not sharing with the group? Zero progress. (I know this character gets her own book, but that in no way excuses a total lack of progress). -Szeth, don't even get me started on how flat this fell. (I know this character gets his own book, but that in no way excuses a total lack of progress). -Adolin was done well in the book. I greatly enjoyed reading from his POV. I think he is a wonderful character and I think he is going to be completely torn apart by the emotional high storm that is being married to Shallan. -Renarin is a character that I very much want to be interested in, and just cannot find caring about. He has a very interesting plot line in Oathbringer but the lack of POV from him has not allowed for me to develop an emotional connection to the character. I don't like Wit. Him being so actively involved in every book of this series is becoming a tedious intrusion. It was fine in WoK, and worked well in WoR, but I am over it. Overall, I could forgive all of the failures in progressing individual character plot lines in satisfying ways, and I could forgive caricaturing all of these wonderful characters; if they are put on the back burner in favor of greatly progressing the overall plot, which I think was the intent of Oathbringer. However, the major plot line of "Why/How did the Recreance occur?" was the biggest disappointment I've read since Terry Goodkind's horrific ending to the sword of truth series. This is completely out of character for Brandon as he is easily the best fantasy fiction author that I have ever read. This leads me to believe that Oathbringer and it revelations are a lie to walk the reader down the garden path to a place where Brandon is going to turn the hose on us in books 4 & 5. This is the only thing I can think. I have to have hope; because I have devoted too much time to this series to have it go poorly from here.

I noticed this the first time I read it; but I was under the impression that we, as the reader, already knew who the voidbringers were at this point. It's pretty heavily foreshadowed in the prior books as well that humans are the "bad guys". I was really hoping for a bigger "big secret". I'm still very optimistic there is more to this than meets the eye. I cant wait for the next book.

I love it! Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor King & Nuatoma of all the Unkalaki in all of Roshar! But, his friends call him Rock. ps. I don't know if any of this accurate but it sure sounds cool.

So if all Humans came from somewhere else; and they were originally settled in Shinovar, why do the Shin appear to look so much different from the rest of the human populous of Roshar? -Are all other races of humans carrying some level of singer/listener/parshmen ancestry? -Are the Shin prior occupants of Roshar predating the invasion of "Humans" ? -Did two different human populations from "destroyed worlds" come to Roshar? I have so many questions.

So after reading Oathbringer; I have decided to do a reread of the entire Stormlight Archive. In doing so I noticed something right of the bat in reading the following paragraph from the prelude: "Many of the bodies around him were human; many were not. Blood mixed. Red. Orange. Violet. Though none of the bodies around him stirred, an indistinct haze of sounds hung in the air. Moans of pain, cries of grief. They did not seem like the sounds of victory. Smoke curled from the occasional patches of growth or heaps of burning corpses. Even some sections of rock smoldered. The Dustbringers had done their work well." We already know red blood for humans, and orange blood for Listeners/Singers/Parshmen. But where does the violet blood come from? My first thought would be Great Shells, but I don't recall reading any way in which they could be controlled in battle to contribute to the fighting at Aharietiem. Does this mean that we have a future situation where we will see Fused Voidbinding Great Shells? What do you all think? Further more; we all know that there is a steep learning curve to S.A., with that understood, what other mysteries that we have glossed over in the passed have become relevant after reading Oathbringer?