Jondesu he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 21 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: @Jondesu: I don't see any reason to vote on Flash. It's his second game, he got a cool role, and he's frustrated that he can't use it. I think that's all this situation boils down to. The people trying to take advantage of it are the ones that I'm suspicious of, you included. @The Flash: Just because you are village doesn't mean that your opinions are right. It just means they aren't biased against the village. I believe that you are mistborn, since if Orlok or a village captain did detain you, it would be easy for him to say that you didn't have all the vials like a mistborn should. It's possible that's all that's going on, but it doesn't have that feel. I'm not trying to take advantage, unless you mean gaining an advantage for the village, and that should be clear from the fact that I've repeatedly stated my suspicions on Flash throughout the game, long before he was detained and claimed Mistborn. Still hoping @OrlokTsubodai will shed some light on the whole situation. If he confirms Flash is indeed Mistborn, I may remove my vote, since while that doesn't clear him, it would mean he had the opportunity to make kills with steel and didn't, which is unlikely if he's an Elim. I think Flash may be trying to take advantage of the fact that Orlok hasn't been very active, though.
Sparkrunner he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Orlok was on for a while earlier but did not post, that is why I am leaving my vote on him. He still has not responded since people started prodding him.
Orlok Tsubodai Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 I haven't been around, because I've been with Elbereth. We're in a relationship, and have been for the last six months, but live on different sides of the Atlantic Ocean. Much though I enjoy these games, I hope that no one will grudge me the opportunity to make the most of the limited time I have with her.. Right. I did indeed detain The Flash, I can confirm that he had a great number of vials on him, which does mean that he's a mistborn. I hope that The Flash is merely a mistaken villager, and that he's overeager. I detained him due to thinking that he is suspicious, primarily driven by my observations of his interactions on day one, given my limited analysis of the thread over the last cycle. If any of you would like to read my day one posts, you'll note that my suspicion of him was made clear here. I will also note that it would be extremely rash to clear The Flash based on being a mistborn. It is entirely possible to balance an eliminator team around powerful roles, either with newer players, timezone misalignment, or limited other roles in the game. 4
Yitzi2 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 15 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said: I haven't been around, because I've been with Elbereth. We're in a relationship, and have been for the last six months, but live on different sides of the Atlantic Ocean. Much though I enjoy these games, I hope that no one will grudge me the opportunity to make the most of the limited time I have with her.. Right. I did indeed detain The Flash, I can confirm that he had a great number of vials on him, which does mean that he's a mistborn. I hope that The Flash is merely a mistaken villager, and that he's overeager. I detained him due to thinking that he is suspicious, primarily driven by my observations of his interactions on day one, given my limited analysis of the thread over the last cycle. If any of you would like to read my day one posts, you'll note that my suspicion of him was made clear here. I will also note that it would be extremely rash to clear The Flash based on being a mistborn. It is entirely possible to balance an eliminator team around powerful roles, either with newer players, timezone misalignment, or limited other roles in the game. That said, if there's a lurcher who can protect him, it might not be a bad idea, since if he is village he's probably a significant target.
Ecthelion III he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) No @Stick I trust that he's telling the truth but I don't wholly agree with him. He's as much in the know as I am, and vice versa. Edited June 6, 2017 by Ecthelion III
Steeldancer he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) Barry sat in shock on his cot. They had taken everything. They had even taken his hidden vial of Pewter. His eyes were red and puffy. The other guards had left him alone, ostracizing him inside the barracks. He reached for the dress of his wife. The only thing he had left of her. He picked it up, and to his surprise, a vial fell out. Barry scrambled to get it, hoping against hope that it could be steel, or pewter, or even tin... But no. It was a vial of gold. Barry sighed. What use was gold to him? A moment of indecision, and then he downed it. He had never burned gold before, but he knew it was supposed to show a version of you, if you had made different choices. The power appeared in his stomach, and he reached into it. Before him appeared himself, dressed like a proper Lord. He looked... happy. There was no pain in his eyes. He wore a genuine smile. And to Barry's horror, this vision had no small burn on his right hand from that night of horrors. Was this metal telling him that he could have prevented that awful night? That he was responsible? That he had somehow caused his own pain? Barry's body shuddered as the realization hit him like a slug to the face. The metal finished burning. In that moment, he lost hope. All feeling gone, he left the barracks. He walked far away from the Mansion. Into the lands of only ash. There, when he could see no one, he knelt and screamed himself raw. He screamed at whatever higher power had condemned him to such a fate. But most of all, he screamed at himself, shredding himself in the effort to find what he had done wrong, to know how he killed his own family. He sobbed into the ash. For a moment, he almost felt like something, someone, would come and comfort his soul-racking pain. But no one, nothing came. He came back to the barracks even more of a broken man. Somehow, he could have saved his family. He didn't have to be alone. But he had done this to himself. He washed his face, and headed out to the skaa fields for guard duty. He did not make fun of Garshin today. Nor did he kick rocks, or run around screaming. He did not speak to anyone. For the moment, I'm not really going to talk much more. I've said what i could think of. So for now I'll just do RP until I'm needed again. Edited June 6, 2017 by The Flash 1
BrightnessRadiant she/her Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Okay wow...I just finished reading the writeup and the thread. Lopen died. Flash is a Mistborn. I think I'm in shock. Okay so what is going on here?? First the elims apparently had a no kill, and then they targeted an inactive and then an active? Perhaps they're trying to keep us from finding a pattern of any kind? @The Flash I just have to say...why in the world would I have been so vocal with Lopen last cycle if I had known he was gonna die?? If I was an elim I wouldn't have drawn so much attention to myself. Just because lopen was suspicious of me doesn't mean I'm an elim. I had a village vibe on him until he started going after me so hard. I was just trying to explain myself to him cuz for some reason he was hitting me really hard. I'm sorry he's gone because we could have used his powers and his reasoning skills. But I wanted to note that were I an elim I wouldn't kill off my brother this early because I would look SUPER suspicious by doing that. Honestly the elims could have taken advantage of our confrontation in thread to try and make me look bad. I dunno...I just don't want everyone targeting me just because Lopen died. I think flash is being honest about being Mistborn especially since orlok confirmed him as well. (I don't really think orlok is an elim because, as I said before, elims don't seem to draw that much attention to themselves. If he was an elim I doubt he would have detained someone on cycle one if he knew there would be no kill.) That being said we need to protect flash with everything we've got! Because everyone is right, he should be a huge target at this point! I'll do what I can to help you flash. @_Stick_ did you say you were taking other actions besides voting? What does that even mean? How can you take other actions then voting? Are you talking about Day actions, because you said you were a courier. You can't have more actions? I would like for you to explain this if I'm misunderstanding something please? I was leaning village for you lately but this comment seemed off to me. I'm not gonna vote on you because I'd like to hear what you meant by that first, cuz I've been leaning village for you because of your explanations when I voted for you before and also because you publicly role claimed. But now that I think about it, courier is a pretty safe role claim if you're good or evil. So I can't really trust you just for that. Especially since you could just be lying. Also you said you "forgot" to make a pm for flash so I'm starting to suspect you again. But like I said I'd like to hear your explanation first.
Stick. she/her Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 You can't take an action if you make courier PMs. I asked the GMs if I could make a PM instead of voting, and I wasn't getting a reply (due to some issues), so I figured I'd send in the order before I sleep if I don't get the reply before that (it's 2 am). But I got a reply a few minutes ago, and turns out I can't make PMs on day turns >>
BrightnessRadiant she/her Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 @_Stick_ yeah it says in the rules that courier is a night action role so that's why I was confused. But also, voting doesn't take the place of an action, I don't think? So if it was a day action you could have still voted too. I'm pretty sure. So I'm kinda confused rn. If you were a courier how did you not know when and how to use your power? I'm sorry, I just don't know if I believe you. stick I'm starting to doubt whether you are even a courier tbh. Even if you are one, you could have been the elim who put the kill in and so you couldn't make a pm for flash. It says this in the rules: Quote The Venture Agents have a faction kill, that can be used at night instead of using a role ability. If you had been going to make a pm for him then why not just put in the order as soon as possible? Why wait? You could put in the order at any time, and if you changed your mind than you could just pm the gm to let them know.
Steeldancer he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 52 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said: Okay wow...I just finished reading the writeup and the thread. Lopen died. Flash is a Mistborn. I think I'm in shock. Okay so what is going on here?? First the elims apparently had a no kill, and then they targeted an inactive and then an active? Perhaps they're trying to keep us from finding a pattern of any kind? @The Flash I just have to say...why in the world would I have been so vocal with Lopen last cycle if I had known he was gonna die?? If I was an elim I wouldn't have drawn so much attention to myself. Just because lopen was suspicious of me doesn't mean I'm an elim. I had a village vibe on him until he started going after me so hard. I was just trying to explain myself to him cuz for some reason he was hitting me really hard. I'm sorry he's gone because we could have used his powers and his reasoning skills. But I wanted to note that were I an elim I wouldn't kill off my brother this early because I would look SUPER suspicious by doing that. Honestly the elims could have taken advantage of our confrontation in thread to try and make me look bad. I dunno...I just don't want everyone targeting me just because Lopen died. I think flash is being honest about being Mistborn especially since orlok confirmed him as well. (I don't really think orlok is an elim because, as I said before, elims don't seem to draw that much attention to themselves. If he was an elim I doubt he would have detained someone on cycle one if he knew there would be no kill.) That being said we need to protect flash with everything we've got! Because everyone is right, he should be a huge target at this point! I'll do what I can to help you flash. @_Stick_ did you say you were taking other actions besides voting? What does that even mean? How can you take other actions then voting? Are you talking about Day actions, because you said you were a courier. You can't have more actions? I would like for you to explain this if I'm misunderstanding something please? I was leaning village for you lately but this comment seemed off to me. I'm not gonna vote on you because I'd like to hear what you meant by that first, cuz I've been leaning village for you because of your explanations when I voted for you before and also because you publicly role claimed. But now that I think about it, courier is a pretty safe role claim if you're good or evil. So I can't really trust you just for that. Especially since you could just be lying. Also you said you "forgot" to make a pm for flash so I'm starting to suspect you again. But like I said I'd like to hear your explanation first. Yeah i thought of that. Maybe I'll replace you and Cluny with Jondesu as my suspected individuals. And thanks for the support, but if the elims have role blocking and extra kills, they'll use them. I already thought it out. If I had pewter it would be a different situation, but even if someone gets me pewter, I can only burn it during the day
BrightnessRadiant she/her Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 @The Flash Okay, so if people are going to pass you metals than they need to do it today instead of voting. From the rules: Quote A player may pass one or more vials they possess to another player during the Day Turn instead of voting, or during the Night Turn instead of taking an action or ordering metals. But I'm kinda concerned that if you are an elim...we could end up passing you a lot of metals rn. Does anyone think we should do this or should we just try and protect him until we know for sure? He could then buy his own metals later to help? I'm just not sure i want to give metals to a Mistborn if he isn't village. Hmmm. I'm leaning village for you, but I want to see what everyone else has to say too. Just to be safe. I kinda feel like orlok is village too, so that's another point in your favor of me trusting you since he claimed that you were Mistborn.
Steeldancer he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said: @The Flash Okay, so if people are going to pass you metals than they need to do it today instead of voting. From the rules: But I'm kinda concerned that if you are an elim...we could end up passing you a lot of metals rn. Does anyone think we should do this or should we just try and protect him until we know for sure? He could then buy his own metals later to help? I'm just not sure i want to give metals to a Mistborn if he isn't village. Hmmm. I'm leaning village for you, but I want to see what everyone else has to say too. Just to be safe. I kinda feel like orlok is village too, so that's another point in your favor of me trusting you since he claimed that you were Mistborn. I wouldn't role claim mistborn if I were an elim. I would lie. Here I am promising that I'll edit this post to numerate how the elim team could kill me as soon as I get home from mutual . (based on theorization about what the elim team might consist of). By so doing i hope to be able to provide information on the make up of the eliminator team, based on how much protection I get during the night ect. Also sort of hoping that maybe the elims will be encouraged not to kill me, because then their make up will be revealed by my theorizing. Edited June 6, 2017 by The Flash
Stick. she/her Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) @BrightnessRadiant I do know that couriers can only make PMs during night turns. Which is why I asked the GMs for confirmation, hoping for a little something. As I said earlier, I planned to go to sleep soon [but ended up pulling an all nighter instead. rip, me], and wanted to send my order in. Seonid hadn't replied then, and I didnt want to take any chances. I did forget to send in the order last night because of the rollover and things, so call me paranoid. I removed my vote because most actions that arent soothing/rioting require that. ie. Passing vials, implanting spikes, probably something esle too that I cant think of rn? require the player not to vote. tbh youre starting to give me elim vibes. Call it a gut read, I dunno, I'm too tired to think. Maybe if I get serious about voting on you this turn I'll post a thorough explanation and stuff but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited June 6, 2017 by _Stick_ added a lil something i can swear i typed before
BrightnessRadiant she/her Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Flash said: I wouldn't role claim mistborn if I were an elim. I would lie. Why would you only role claim Mistborn if you were village? (Only the Sith deal in absolutes lolol jk ) But I'm not saying I don't think you're village Mistborn...I'm just saying it's a possibility that you're either an elim Mistborn or that you're not even Mistborn but trying to get people to send you lots of metals. It's probably too risky to try that tbh, but I can't help always keeping a healthy bit of paranoia with me lol Ninja'd by stick: Aaaaaaand yet another "gut" read on me *sigh When I get voted on by someone I tend to suspect them too lol..but I honestly don't see why you would think that the gms would let you send in a courier action during the day if it's a night action? How is forgetting to send in your action, being paranoid? I was just saying you could have sent it in at any time. So why not send in your courier action right when flash asked for it? You can always change orders.
Stick. she/her Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said: When I get voted on by someone I tend to suspect them too lol..but I honestly don't see why you would think that the gms would let you send in a courier action during the day if it's a night action? Just in case I missed something in the rules 6 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said: How is forgetting to send in your action, being paranoid? That I now want to send mine as soon as possible even though theres like 24 hrs left for the turn to end 7 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said: So why not send in your courier action right when flash asked for it? I explained why in one of my previous posts 8 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said: You can always change orders. Yes, I agree? :P
BrightnessRadiant she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 11 minutes ago, _Stick_ said: Just in case I missed something in the rules That I now want to send mine as soon as possible even though theres like 24 hrs left for the turn to end I explained why in one of my previous posts Yes, I agree? 1. Okay I could see that I guess 2. Oh ok I thought you were saying that you didn't send in your night courier action because you were paranoid 3. I must have missed that (so you posted where you said why you didn't send in your pm on the night cycle? Or were you referencing where you said why you didn't send in a pm this cycle?) 4. I'm glad
Steeldancer he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) So, @Jondesu what do you have to say? Orlok has confirmed that I am indeed a mistborn. It wouldn't be smart for an eliminator to be drawing this much attention, right? The only issue will be if they don't kill me. Then I'll look suspicious. But that's unlikely to happen. At the least I'll be attacked, and whatever lurcher decides to protect me will get a notification that I was attacked. Ok, so the best possible situation (also extremely unlikely) is that all the elims are hazekillers. If so, they'll probably role block me and any one trying to protect me, so that their kill will go through. A more likely situation is that they'll have some mix of real and hemalurgic coinshots. However, if they have only hemalurgic coinshots- which is possible, given the lack of multiple night kills- they will only be able to use their venture kill + hazekiller abilities, because steel hasn't shown up yet. Speaking of which, look out for when it does. There might be an increase in kills if that happens. Also, if they have a normal coinshot, they can share their extra steel vial with their steel spiked team mate. Also there is the possibility that the coinshot might have spiked himself with a steel spike... which @Seonid has failed to mention what happens when that happens. I suspect that it might go through protection, like (mistborn spoilers) Spoiler Vin is able to see through copperclouds because of her hemalurgic spike If that's the case, well I'm doomed any way. But at least my curiosity would be satisfied. The worst situation is if they have a hazekiller, coinshot, hemalurgic coinshot, and another mistborn (in which case I'm VERY dead). Which I find unlikely. I'm of the belief that I'm the only mistborn, and I'm village. Edited June 7, 2017 by The Flash
Stick. she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said: 3. I must have missed that (so you posted where you said why you didn't send in your pm on the night cycle? Or were you referencing where you said why you didn't send in a pm this cycle?) Why I failed to send in the PM order last turn. I'm talking about my first post this turn, btw
Jondesu he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 @The Flash, Orlok's post does indeed confirm to me that you're likely a Mistborn, unless you're Elim teammates, but I've had a village read on Orlok since that first detainment, so for now, as I said I might, I'm removing my vote from Flash. That said, I'm still keeping my eye on you, because you could be an Elim Mistborn. The only reason I suspect not is that it'd be unlikely you'd have declined to make a kill with steel, since you should have had two vials of it. By the same logic, however, I think your idea that the Elim team is made up of Coinshots, natural or Hemalurgic, is kinda ridiculous. If they were, they would have started with vials, right? They would have no reason not to "thin the herd" right away. A no-kill night is already odd enough. If they could have blasted everyone with 2-3 kills in the first night, or second night, don't you think they would have? Getting that many people out of the way would seem worth it. I'm going to have to reassess here before I vote again, but I think voting on Orlok for this is kinda ridiculous, and my suspicions of Cluny eased after I reanalyzed that post (that was last cycle, I think?), although I'm still wary. I guess Meta and Ecth are still piquing my interest, mostly by not being that prominent, and I'm not sure what to think about Araris after his exchanges with me in today's thread. He could be a passionate villager, or a manipulative Elim, though they'd have no reason to do anything desperate since we haven't found any of them yet. Also, I am now out of town for a two-day clinic starting in the morning and will have very limited time and attention. Don't expect me to post much, even if you see me reading the thread (that'll just be me skimming it on mobile).
Seonid he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Author Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, The Flash said: So, @Jondesu what do you have to say? Orlok has confirmed that I am indeed a mistborn. It wouldn't be smart for an eliminator to be drawing this much attention, right? The only issue will be if they don't kill me. Then I'll look suspicious. But that's unlikely to happen. At the least I'll be attacked, and whatever lurcher decides to protect me will get a notification that I was attacked. Ok, so the best possible situation (also extremely unlikely) is that all the elims are hazekillers. If so, they'll probably role block me and any one trying to protect me, so that their kill will go through. A more likely situation is that they'll have some mix of real and hemalurgic coinshots. However, if they have only hemalurgic coinshots- which is possible, given the lack of multiple night kills- they will only be able to use their venture kill + hazekiller abilities, because steel hasn't shown up yet. Speaking of which, look out for when it does. There might be an increase in kills if that happens. Also, if they have a normal coinshot, they can share their extra steel vial with their steel spiked team mate. Also there is the possibility that the coinshot might have spiked himself with a steel spike... which @Seonid has failed to mention what happens when that happens. I suspect that it might go through protection, like (mistborn spoilers) Reveal hidden contents Vin is able to see through copperclouds because of her hemalurgic spike If that's the case, well I'm doomed any way. But at least my curiosity would be satisfied. The worst situation is if they have a hazekiller, coinshot, hemalurgic coinshot, and another mistborn (in which case I'm VERY dead). Which I find unlikely. I'm of the belief that I'm the only mistborn, and I'm village. As I said - for the interactions between spikes and Mistborn/Mistings of the same ability. PAFO (That's Play And Find Out for the new folks)
Sparkrunner he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 @The Flash. I see this statement 2 hours ago, The Flash said: I wouldn't role claim mistborn if I were an elim. I would lie. VERY suspicious. If you had not role-claimed, I do not doubt you would be lynched when Orlok revealed you had a bunch of different metals, and you had not come forward. A role claim reveal narrowly saved your skin, while possibly making some people who would not see this trust you more. Flash.
Sart he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Vote Count: Orlok (2): Flash, Stick, Cluny, Sart Stick (2): Araris, Ecth III Flash (1): Jondesu, Cluny Generally speaking, I tend to trust those who reveal their role to the thread. During Day 1, I trusted Orlok after he revealed, it didn't make sense to me why he would do that as an eliminator. However, this day's events have made me more suspicious. In addition to the roleblock on Flash, look at the voting patterns. Both Araris and Ecth vote on Stick after Orlok garners 3 votes. Araris I can understand, but Ecth's vote seems especially flimsy. I suspect she was trying to shift the vote off of Orlok, trying to save a teammate. Add this to the shenanigans of Day 1, and there becomes overwhelming evidence that Orlok is evil. I'm not 100% sold, but I think a lynch on Orlok will give us a significant amount of information. Edited June 7, 2017 by Sart Forgot to include my own vote
BrightnessRadiant she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 @The Flash I'm kinda confused as to why you are voting on Orlok when he is the one who confirmed that you are mistborn? I'm not sure about Orlok but I do think he's a villager, but I also think you are a villager...so I'm a little unsure of why you've chosen to keep your vote on him? @Sart I also voted for stick I can't help feeling that she is actually an elim. Here reasons stated for why she didn't make a pm for flash when she already seemed like she was going to last cycle, still confuse me. She could have put in the order for it any time within the entire night cycle but she claims that she forgot. I don't really think that's a valid reason tbh. She could have put in the order right after flash asked for the pm, but instead she waited and "forgot" or she just didn't do it. I do appreciate that she's been replying to my suspicions of her, but I don't really believe her defense. To me, she seems like one of the most suspicious players, and I can't shake this bad feeling. It's not just based on gut though lol...as several people have done towards me. I'd rather not lynch flash in case he is telling the truth about being the village mistborn. I mean, do we really wanna risk losing him? Is there some way we can hold off and clear him somehow? If he doesn't have any metals rn, it's not like he's a threat this cycle anyways right?
Elenion he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 @Sart Ecth is a guy. I'm back on, but just for now. I won't have another window with WiFi for a day and most of another. First off, the evil gut reads on me. Evidence against me: --Abnormal activity level --Wrong about Lopen --Seemed very concerned about kills taking spikes --Known Contribution Crusader (a proponent of killing inactives) --Member of the last elim team to target inactives using faction kill (see below) Ah, I see why people are reading evil on me. Moving on... Secondly, I have a theory on the elim-kills. The last time that I remember the elims starting off a game by killing an inactive, it was MR21. The elim team was Aman, Joe, Frozen Mint, and I, and we killed Darkness Ascendant off of the bat because he warned the thread that he was going inactive. We did it because we had two usual fear-kill targets on our team in Aman and Joe, and we didn't want players getting suspicious as to why those two were alive. That was another reason why I was leaning evil on Lopen, but now that Lopen is proven good that point is moot anyway. The other fear-kill target in this game is Orlok, which makes me lean more evil on him. Problem is, Orlok struck me as village when he claimed early, and I think he was justified in detaining Flash last night. I might have done the same thing were I a captain. That takes us to kill two: Lopen. The easy conclusion to come to is that either Lopen was onto something or he was just the target of a fear-kill; but I think it was something a little more subtle: the elims knew that Lopen was village because he wasn't in a doc with them, so they killed him to throw suspicion on the players who had expressed suspicion of him: Brightness and myself. This makes me more trusting of Brightness. So about Orlok, I'm torn. On the one hand, Orlok had the role and the know-how to direct the lynch on PK without taking much suspicion for it, and Orlok detained Flash, whom I read as gut and being truthful. On the other hand, Orlok has backed up Flash's claim, detained Flash with reason, and claimed early. With Orlok, it's hard to tell. Orlok being evil could have caused the elims to not make a fear-kill N1, but that would have made a kill on Lopen N2 even more risky. Right now, I'm for leaving Orlok alive, but that could change if any more evidence against him shows up. I'm throwing a vote on Ecthelion III, because he tends to go semi-active like this when he's evil. He's tossed some votes around without contributing much to the discussion. Also, this post of his Quote No Stick I trust that he's telling the truth but I don't wholly agree with him. He's as much in the know as I am, and vice versa. seems to me like he's over-emphasizing that he doesn't have any non-thread contacts, which includes the elim doc. I'll be back on in a couple of days, assuming I live that long. Happy lynching! 2
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