Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

Well, I'm only new to Sanderson Elimination. I have been reading threads on the shard for about a year now (over half that time anonymously).

[STINK he/him]

As if I leave SE

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

You have a reputation. I distinctly remember people bringing you up, and (if memory serves) someone saying "you just got stinked!" somewhere in the forums.

[STINK he/him]

Ha that sounds amazing ngl

[Mailliw73 he/him]

You have a reputation. I distinctly remember people bringing you up, and (if memory serves) someone saying "you just got stinked!" somewhere in the forums.

Really? Geez, Stink, your infamy has spread.

[AliasSheep]

Right, I've finished reading through (I kind of skimmed the last 5 or so pages but eh).

 

And, Elodin.

Elodin has repeatedly tried to push conversation away from Fain and the Corrupted.  Even when we weren't discussing it.  During Night 1, he actually moves the conversation onto whether the Darkfriends have a Channeler.  That doesn't make sense to me.  Discussion of Fain is so much more useful than such a topic, a topic grounded on nothing, as well as not really anything we can deal with.  Compare this to the threat of Fain and his conversions.  Funnily enough, in my PM with him, he says he wouldn't mind being converted later on. 

 

He also is somewhat inconsistent with this, as on Day Two, he accuses Wilson of being Padan Fain.  Despite the fact that he spent a cycle talking about how we shouldn't discuss Corrupted/Fain.  And, his arguments for Wilson being Fain are incredibly weak and essentially boil down to her using semantics as part of her arguments.  I don't like this inconsistency, and it makes me feel like he's trying to cover up.  Especially since this happens ~2 hours after Lopen mentioned what I'd stated about how Elodin was trying to redirect conversation.

 

All this makes me really suspicious about him being Padan Fain.

 

And then he was detained.

 

If Detained, he can't convert people.  Yet there was a conversion.  Thus Elodin cannot be Padan Fain. Storms.

Except, that doesn't explain how he was adamantly switching the conversation from Corrupted to anything else (I think someone said - probably Aman - that Eliminators tend to go overboard on points to make them seem genuine and then end up not seeming it).  

This leaves me very confused.

 

Unless he started as a Corrupted.

 

There's no rules against it, Gamma hasn't confirmed anything on it (and that PAFO seemed quite trollish to me).  Plus Elodin has been acting like an elim (see: vote switching, among other things).

 

This leads me to believe that Elodin started as Corrupted, or if Gamma is really being a troll (and I've heard he can be), another Padan Fain.

 

So yeah.

 

In other news, there was something I picked up on which happened on Day 2.  Elodin states that the channeler is basically dead in a few cycles.  I really don't see why this is.  I feel like he's misinterpreted the rules on the Warder-Channeler thing.  It states that the Warder dies in two cycles if their Channeler dies, but not the reciprocal (and I don't think that this is me missing some insight in the rules, given the setting - for those who don't know, it's common for Warders to become almost obsessive about getting revenge on who killed their Aes Sedai, but it's not at all common for the reciprocal).  The interesting thing is not Elodin himself saying this, I'm willing to believe it was a misinterpretation of the rules, but rather Winter.  Winter also states this (saying that the Channeler is "doomed") and then says that they might as well reveal.  See, I don't really understand what advantage the village would gain from the Channeler claiming.  However, both elim teams would benefit, that is, the Darkfriends would have a target to kill and Padan Fain conveniently gains some tools.

So yeah, Winter seems suspicious.

 

While I'm at it, HS's "5 channelers" thing seems really over the top and kind of... I don't know.  I get a feeling that he was really trying to defend Bard, like a teammate?  It seemed a bit over the top.  Nothing strong here though.

 

Also, I'm reading Aman as village.  He's playing differently to last I played with him (where I was first on a different team and then an elim with him, during the same game).  He's also put some pretty good reasoning out.  Mostly gut reading here, though.

[little wilson she/her]

There's no rules against it, Gamma hasn't confirmed anything on it (and that PAFO seemed quite trollish to me).  Plus Elodin has been acting like an elim (see: vote switching, among other things).

 

This leads me to believe that Elodin started as Corrupted, or if Gamma is really being a troll (and I've heard he can be), another Padan Fain.

 

Gamma is being a troll, but he may be trolling you by PAFOing you on something that is a "no." I know I've done that before. Someone asks something, and I'm thinking, "Of course not!" but that's not what I tell them. I tell them "PAFO" because not only does it give out less information, it's also really fun to see them try to figure out what I mean. I rather doubt Fain started with a convert already. I suppose he could've, since he might be wanting to prevent what happened last time, with Fain being killed before he could get any converts, but I still doubt it.

 

And for the Channeler/Warder thing, it goes both ways:

 

Channelers also start the game Bonded to a Warder. You know who the Warder is, but not their Alignment. You can PM with your Warder for the duration of the game, regardless of the Dreamwalker being alive or not.

*If your Warder dies, you die two full cycles after that. But you can reuse any Weaves you used once before again.

Warder*: Warders start off the game paired with a Channeler. They know the identity of the Channeler, but not their Alignment. The Channeler and Warder can PM together throughout the duration of the game, regardless of a Dreamwalker being alive or not. If your Channeler would die, you sacrifice yourself in their place and die instead. Doesn’t save from a lynch. IF your Channeler is lynched, you have 2 Cycles left to live, and get to make 1 kill to avenge them.

 

Take note of the first bolded section. Orlok's Channeler has one cycle left to live after this night ends.

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

This is from a screenshot of the rules.

 

edit: aand, right after I post, wilson's post comes up.

Edited June 8, 2016 by RubiksCube

[AliasSheep]

Gamma is being a troll, but he may be trolling you by PAFOing you on something that is a "no." I know I've done that before. Someone asks something, and I'm thinking, "Of course not!" but that's not what I tell them. I tell them "PAFO" because not only does it give out less information, it's also really fun to see them try to figure out what I mean. I rather doubt Fain started with a convert already. I suppose he could've, since he might be wanting to prevent what happened last time, with Fain being killed before he could get any converts, but I still doubt it.

 

And for the Channeler/Warder thing, it goes both ways:

 

Take note of the first bolded section. Orlok's Channeler has one cycle left to live after this night ends.

It's unlikely yes, but I'd still be confused over Elodin.

 

And... wow... I'm not good at this whole "reading the rules" thing, am I.

[Straw he/him]

I cannot think of anything to post other than this:

Edited June 8, 2016 by Straw

[STINK he/him]

You know you don't have to post anything?

[Straw he/him]

Yeah. I just was looking at my keyboard and say those. I also had a feeling I would get downvoted.

EDIT: Seriously? I post some emojis and get downvoted 3 times.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Straw

[Elbereth she/her]

Also I already like don't trust you so stop trying to downplay my amazingness at getting roles when I want to like when you were the only one who claimed to me in a certain LG...

I was not the only one who claimed to you. I know for a fact that Wilson did as well.

 

Gamma is being a troll, but he may be trolling you by PAFOing you on something that is a "no." I know I've done that before. Someone asks something, and I'm thinking, "Of course not!" but that's not what I tell them. I tell them "PAFO" because not only does it give out less information, it's also really fun to see them try to figure out what I mean. I rather doubt Fain started with a convert already. I suppose he could've, since he might be wanting to prevent what happened last time, with Fain being killed before he could get any converts, but I still doubt it.

Agreed. I've done the same thing. That way is much more fun. And in a lot of cases, there's no reason you have to clarify that. So why would you make their job easier? Better to leave the players to wonder.

So I disagree that Elodin started out as a Corrupted. Particularly because I don't know what the order of actions was last time, but in this case corruption comes before kills, so we would have had to lynch Fain on D1 in order to prevent a Corruption. (Or roleblocked and killed him N1, I guess.) Which is very unlikely as long as Fain is careful.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[Master Elodin]

How could I be Fain? Anyways, the corrupted thing was because they weren't a big threat at the time. Also, of course I'm still gonna kill Padan if I find them, they just weren't my biggest priority.

[STINK he/him]

Oh btw I know how Wilson hates it when it happens s to her so I role claimed to her and she did to ke and then she told me that she lied about her role so yeah Eliminators take a go at Wilson please I'll give ya something in exchange

[little wilson she/her]

Actually, I told you initially that I would tell you my role if you told me yours first. I told you weren't getting my role out of me without me getting yours first because I don't trust you. You refused. I never told you I would be completely honest if I went first. So yes, I lied, but once you claimed, I told the truth. So....nope. Should've made sure I'd tell the truth if I went first. Though if you'd done that, you never would've learned my role, because I would've told you no deal just like I told someone else last night when they asked something I wasn't willing to give.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Actually, I told you initially that I would tell you my role if you told me yours first. I told you weren't getting my role out of me without me getting yours first because I don't trust you. You refused. I never told you I would be completely honest if I went first. So yes, I lied, but once you claimed, I told the truth. So....nope. Should've made sure I'd tell the truth if I went first. Though if you'd done that, you never would've learned my role, because I would've told you no deal just like I told someone else last night when they asked something I wasn't willing to give.

That someone else was me.  

[STINK he/him]

Alright all you secretive people want the good stuff in PMs, so just ask all that crap and I'll answer when I wake up when there are no PMs or something.

And before you ask 1+1 is window

[Elbereth she/her]

Actually, I told you initially that I would tell you my role if you told me yours first. I told you weren't getting my role out of me without me getting yours first because I don't trust you. You refused. I never told you I would be completely honest if I went first. So yes, I lied, but once you claimed, I told the truth. So....nope. Should've made sure I'd tell the truth if I went first. Though if you'd done that, you never would've learned my role, because I would've told you no deal just like I told someone else last night when they asked something I wasn't willing to give.

I was really confused when I thought you were still talking about LG20...

[the winter system]

I don't think there would be converted from the beginning, that just doesn't make much sense. The point of the Pain Fain is that she (yes, I use the default pronoun she: FIGHT ME) has to convert folks. It might be Gamma trolling. 

 

[AliasSheep]

Alright all you secretive people want the good stuff in PMs, so just ask all that crap and I'll answer when I wake up when there are no PMs or something.

And before you ask 1+1 is window

 

No 1+1 is 11

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I don't really know how to go about finding Fain right now, so, I'll do a post with my suspicions at some point this Turn probably, but I don't have any good suspects for Fain right now, sorry.

 

I don't think that Elodin is Corrupted or Fain, since he's claimed Dreamwalker and he was Detained when someone got Corrupted. And, I don't think that anyone started as Corrupt. I think that would probably be in the rules if it was the case.

 

And since we have an extended Night Turn, I'll try to get some RP done(Still need to respond to Conq! Sorry about that!).

[Conquestor he/him]

Sorry I haven't been active today, I had a family outing.

Any who, the thing about Elodin being Fain, it's a possibility that he was targeted by a chaneler and was protected by the mirror weave. This would allow him to use his conversion and still be untargetable.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Conquestor

[Elbereth she/her]

True. But he was detained. We can't prove that, since the only known Whitecloak is dead and would've been unlikely to tell the truth to us anyway. But if he wasn't detained, I'm not sure why no one counterclaimed him, and since if he were Fain he wouldn't be in contact with Gunshy so he couldn't have just lied about it that way. So... I can't really see him lying about being detained without being a Darkfriend. And thus probably not Fain. (Although it would be interesting if Fain started out as a Darkfriend... That's a possibility we probably shouldn't discount. Unlikely, but possible. And amusing. )

[jaimeleecee she/her]

boy am I glad we have an extended night cycle, I did some reviewing of D2 and note taking earlier today but other than that I have been utterly useless!

Just to comment on what I have skimmed through in the last few minutes, I don't think it's likely that there was a corrupted already just because corrupting is Fains only action, so it would make sense that he gets to pick his whole team not have some members chosen for him. I'm not saying I've cleared Elodin from my suspicion list I'm just not sure that theory holds up. Who knows though... I'm too tired to think hard. Good night all. ❤️