Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Haelbarde he/him]

(Bah. Got distracted, and now I've got to do other things)

 

Heh. This game has generated 1067 posts as of Day 3. For reference, the most posts in a game so far is LG15, at 1692 replies. The second most drops to 1301 replies, in LG12. So 3 days in, this games already has the 7th largest number of replies in SE history. I think that's pretty awesome.

Okay, now to actually get some stuff done.

 

Thoughts on Fain:

Still working on suspicions on who I think could be Fain, although I’m thinking Elb isn’t (I’d like to think she’d have converted me by now ). I’m willing to wait to see what happens with corruptions over the next few cycles. We’ve gotten stupidly lucky so far. While possible, I’d be highly surprised if we happened to detain Fain by chance. I’d probably be more of a mind to believe Fain just decided not to corrupt someone this cycle. Or that they tried to corrupt Jaimee. Beyond detaining Jaimee every cycle and seeing if there a no more corruptions, not sure what we could do.

 

 

Thoughts on Players:

Mailliw73
Hasn’t had a good idea of Fain works – on the one hand, makes him less likely to be Fain, but on the other, he played the original version of this game. I’d probably lean on him not being Fain though. His other posts have contained advice for the village that I’d agree with. Has put votes on me for Mayor a few times, for some reason. The impression I’ve got from is that he’s village. Has also made a claim that he’s going to be 100% honest. I do have some questions for him regarding that, but they may have to wait till the night.

 

Seonid

Suspicious of Meta D1 due to quick vote on Sart, although backed off after Sart flipped Forsaken. From his other posts, I’m undecided. I’m sorta neutral. He has contributed some good thoughts, but nothing that stands out to me. I’d be surprised if both he and Meta were eliminators though.

 

As far as the rest go, here's my reads off the top of my head:

Elb: Slight village

Aman: Village

TheOnlyNyali: Slight village

Meta: A bit DF

Lopen: Neutral

 

Everyone else, I've not really established an opinion on. 

 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Geez, El, you're quick. I'm just barely on Princeps'.

El, I've been leaning village on you for a while, but I've been having some nagging doubts recently, so I'd say slight village.

Aman, I tend to disagree with a good amount of his posts, but I do lean village on him.

I want Mayor to be shifted. I have my preferences of who it should be: Hael, Joe, Bugsy, then El. But really, I just think we need to keep it moving.

[Elbereth she/her]

Well, it may help that I've read them before. And I have lots of free time. Lots and lots. Hopefully I'll be able fo finish First Lord's by Monday so I can focus on the game properly again.

If you disagree with Aman, why haven't you said so? You certainly haven't in the past day.

Do you have any particular reasoning for wanting Hael to be Mayor? I was going to ask you why when you voted, but I think I got distracted. And also, why Bugsy? Joe seems fairly obvious.

Couple of other things:

1. Straw seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. A scanner doesn't do us any good if no one ever gets the results.

2. Seonid and Meta have both viewed this thread after I posted without answering my questions. (Lopen is currently viewing, but I'm guessing he's writing up a post, and he has in fact given his thoughts on the game a lot more than most players this cycle.)

3. Being the perfectionist, I decided to go through the thread taking notes the same way I did in LG20. That is definitely not something I'm going to finish tonight. Sorry.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Because I disagree with him in most games. we just play the game very differently, so it's a matter of Playstyle that is pointless for me to bring up.

Hael, I've been getting a village read on. Same with Bugsy. In my PMs last night, I learned more about them and trust both more.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I want Mayor to be shifted. I have my preferences of who it should be: Hael, Joe, Bugsy, then El. But really, I just think we need to keep it moving.

Hey, it wasn't shifted very much(if at all) in the first version of this game was it? You got a problem with the way I do things?

 

(Lopen is currently viewing, but I'm guessing he's writing up a post, and he has in fact given his thoughts on the game a lot more than most players this cycle.)

 

But I already answered all those questions you put up before you even asked them. Do I really need to talk more? D:

 

Actually, I don't mind. Have a player list with my thoughts on each player!

 

1. Mailliw - I'm leaning village on him. His posts seem genuine, even if he hasn't really been a part of catching any of the Darkfriends so far. Leaning village - 67

2. Seonid - His part in the Sart and Gunshy lynches combined with my gut read of his posts have me leaning village pretty heavily for him. Village - 79

3. Elbereth - Again, she was a huge reason why Gunshy got lynched and her part in Sart's lynch have me all but convinced she's a villager. Wilson stuck up for her in that she was fairly certain El wasn't Fain. Village - 90(Really high, I know! )

4. Aman - Hmm, he's a Whitecloak. Gunshy was a DF Whitecloak. I've been reading him as village for pretty much the whole game. So. Village - 80(I'm being very trusting right now aren't I?)

5. Nyali/Joe - Nyali revealed her role to try and catch someone in what she thought was good evidence based off of her role usage. I view that as much more of a village thing to do, since as a Darkfriend, I imagine she'd be much more aware of revealing her role like that and she wouldn't feel like it was worth it if she wasn't certain it would lead to a mislynch. Joe hasn't done anything super evil. Leaning village - 70

6. Sheep - Hmm, well, I have him down as village right now, because he seemed genuinely suspicious of Sart on D1 even though he didn't vote for him as well as the fact that he was an alternate lynch candidate during D1, so it's possible the DF's tried to push that lynch onto him to save Sart, in which case Sheep would be a villager. However, I don't remember seeing much posts from him lately. Leaning village - 60

7. Conquestor - Hmm, I think he tried to save both Sart and Gunshy. If I'm remembering correctly. He's also stated really unlikely scenario's a few times as well, which I view as something eliminators are more likely to do because they don't want to get too close to the truth in most situations. So, hmm, leaning Darkfriend right now for him - 40

8. Elodin - Okay, yeah, if Gunshy Detained him and he is a Dreamwalker, I seriously doubt he'd be a Darkfriend. Also, if Meta is a Darkfriend, I wouldn't think he'd be one either. I know that contradicts what I said earlier, but I was going over meta's posts more and changed my mind on that. Leaning village - 55(only because I was very suspicious of him early on, otherwise, it'd probably be higher)

9. phattemer - Yeah, literally zip on him, except that he's not posted anything worthwhile, so that's suspicious. But he's done that as village before, so who knows. Leaning towards Fain - 100 (obviously that's fake. totally real number that I put more than 3 seconds of thought into - 47)

10. Haelbarde - Wasn't very sad that his beloved Brightness was brutally killed! Not very loyal of him as her "True Herald." Anyways, thread destroying topic aside, I honestly can't say that I trust him very much. From what I've seen, he keeps his playstyle very consistent whether he's village or eliminator, which is why I have a hard time getting a good read on him. Said that I was neutral in his reads, which, I don't really know what to think of. On one hand, I think I've done a pretty good job proving my villager-ness so far, so I want to be like "he's suspicious for not completely trusting me!," but on the other hand, I've never been great at seeing my posts from anyone else's perspective, so maybe I'm not as transparent as I think I am. So I guess I'm leaning slightly village for him - 53

11. Young Bard - Okay, so, leaning village, but I don't recall much reason except his posts read like a villager to me. Plus, if Meta turns out to be a Darkfriend, he'd be all but cleared, because of how Meta was pushing for his lynch. Leaning village - 65

12. Hellscythe - Hasn't posted all that much and when he has, I've kinda gotten suspicious vibes. Apparently he claimed to both Bard and Mailliw, but I don't know anything about that, so I can't really draw any conclusions from that. I'm pretty suspicious of him, tbh. Leaning Darkfriend - 37

13. Straw - Okay, leaning village for reasons I've said before, but I'd like to hear more from him. Leaning village - 70

14. Meta - Yeah, listed my reasons for suspicion against him earlier. He's been very quiet too. Leaning Darkfriend - 33

15. Winter - Leaning village just based on my gut read of her. Helped lynch Sart, but the lynch was pretty much sealed when she voted, so not too much of a point of reference for whether she's good or not. Leaning village - 64

16. Bugsy - My notes literally have nothing on him still. Hmm. I've got a PM with him, but it's not been all that active. I do have him down as village right now though, so, yeah. Leaning village - 55

17. Lopen - Well, I helped lynch Sart(not a crucial role in his death, although as Mayor, my vote could have saved him if I'd wanted to do so - except I didn't even know I was gonna be Mayor. ). Helped lynch Gunshy and was actually a crucial part of why he was lynched. I've roleclaimed to 2 or 3 players so far, but I've been trying not to be too pushy for information so that I won't be a good target for conversion. So far so good.

18. Araris - I have him down as village almost solely based on the fact that he was apprehensive of Meta and Mayor voted for me when I was pushing to lynch Gunshy. Leaning village - 60

19. Rubik - I sorta suspect him because he's talked about meta sort of things more than real opinions on players. Not too much though. He's new, so it's understandable that he's trying to adjust to here. Neutral right now - 50

20. Stink - Sounds like village Stink. Acts like village Stink. Probably is village Stink - 70

21. Jaime - I think she's done very well for her first game here. I haven't gotten any really suspicious vibes from her, but seeing as she's new, I don't trust myself too much to read her accurately. Helped lynch Gunshy and openly defended Sart. Could be Fain, but eh, she's not really a top suspect to me. Leaning village - 68

 

Darn you Elbereth. See what you've done? I was gonna go watch some Arrow and now it's getting late. >>

 

Argh, and now I'm wishing I listed them in order of most trusted to least trusted. :/ Whatever.

 

Hey Mailliw, can you explain your trust of Bugsy a little more? I'd like to get a more detailed opinion of him to compare with when I go over his posts and my PM with him. Same with Sheep, didn't you say you were suspecting him a bit?

 

Edit: Put it in spoilers cause it was so long! I haven't done one of those for a while.

Edited June 11, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Hey, it wasn't shifted very much(if at all) in the first version of this game was it? You got a problem with the way I do things?

Hey Mailliw, can you explain your trust of Bugsy a little more? I'd like to get a more detailed opinion of him to compare with when I go over his posts and my PM with him. Same with Sheep, didn't you say you were suspecting him a bit?

Not you personally. Just cause we didn't do it much in the first doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.

I won't go into detail, no. Maybe in a PM tonight, I'll explain a bit more. But suffice it to say that I was leaning village on him for a while and then talking to him only increased that and I'd put him at 80-85 on not being a DF. On not being Corrupted, I'd put him at 70.

Sheep, I do still suspect a little, but I don't really have much of a read on him.

[Conquestor he/him]

I was waiting for the suspicion for me to happen, I did in fact defend both Sart and Gunshy. I defended Sart because the reasoning for his votes were terrible! I mean you guys were literally lynching him because of other people's reps, Meta and Wilson were the first to vote for him. They voted for him because he brought up day one lynches, he also didn't even really defend himself. I just don't like lynching people for no reason.

My reason for defending Gunshy is because this was his first game! It just seems pretty mean to kill him day two, even if we think he is evil.

Thanks Lopen for being suspicious of me! You and Aman are the first people to really say anything about me defending those two. It just feels like people are downplaying me because I don't really have as much of a rep. Most people haven't put me in their lists either.

Edit : Stupid spelling mistakes.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Conquestor

[Bugsy he/him]

The currently living Whitecloak detained a player on N1 other than Elodin. Whether or not they want to reveal that to the thread is fine, as in doing so he would be implicating something he might not want to be common knowledge, but I can assure you that unless there is another Whitecloak (which I severely doubt), Gunshy was the one who targeted Elodin.

I looked over the rules really quickly, and if you actually know a whitecloak who didn't target Elodin C1, that would probably mean 2 are still alive. I'm basing this on the fact that the lynch preceeds the whitecloak kill (since the lynch happens at the end of the day while detaining happens at the beginning of the night). Gamma, can you confirm or deny this? Where does the lynch go in the order of operations?

Edit:

Until then, though, questions to the thread that everyone should answer if they have nothing else to say:

What's your opinion on me and the votes on me? What do you think of Aman? What about Meta and the votes on him? Who do you think should be Mayor?

1) I'm leaning village on you, and you have a good amount of stuff to back you up. You may be a good target for corruption, but no way to be sure. I don't really like the lynch votes on you, but can't really refute them. Mayoral votes on you, I support (pretty sure I'm one of them )

2) As for Aman, I'm leaning village as well. His accusation of you was well reasoned, even if it wasn't the most compelling. He also kept on the offensive even after you said you thought he was village, risking drawing more attention to the argument, which he wouldn't want as much as an elim (it would put him and his arguments under scrutiny)

3) As I've said in PMs, I don't know Meta's style well enough to get a read on him. I trust, for the most part, suspicions voiced to me by players who have spent longer playing with him, so I'm slightly suspicious just for those

4) I don't really care who gets mayor, so long as it isn't Lopen for a 3rd cycle

Edited June 11, 2016 by Bugsy6912

[Elbereth she/her]

Bugsy, I'm having a hard time following why the lynch makes a difference here. Why couldn't Gunshy have detained Elodin N1?

Also, I have to go take the ACT now, so I won't be around until four hours before turnover (ish). I expect to see at least two more pages of discussion when I come back. In fact... Meta, just so the lynch isn't as set in stone. That vote will go back on if nothing's changed in seven hours.

I had comments on Lopen's post, but they'll have to wait until later. Wish me luck!

[Bugsy he/him]

Good luck! And I just realized Gunshy was lynched C2... *Facepalm*

I was saying he was lynched so he couldn't have detained anyone. Forgot that he wasn't lynched that cycle...

[jaimeleecee she/her]

I don't have a lot of time, so this will be brief. I'm not quite sure how you can be certain me being detained could mean anything about fain, there are so many other reasons why a corruption didn't happen. That aside I really have no way to defend myself other than saying I'm not, soooo. I feel trusting of Elb because of agreements on certain reads and a lack of suspicious behavior (in my eyes), and I'm not sure who else I trust.. This accusation on Elb does make me lean more toward village for Aman than I was before. Also I am a little bothered by metas silence, if you remember I stated D1 that his behavior felt weird but I was told by several people that that's just his style. After D1 I trusted him more because of the lynch but since then it has been slowly going down, not really sure how I feel. If I had to vote right now I'd probably just choose not to because I'm not confident in any of my suspicions right now.

[Young Bard he/him]

All right. I was trying to work out whether or not to do this, but Joe. (I mean, I've got to spice up your life before the trip somehow, don't I?)

 

The reason I didn't want to is because it's almost entirely meta-reasoning.

 

The thing is, I don't think Nyali's role, even if it's a Ta'veren role, is important enough to warrant them being replaced with someone else. Nyali's departure would just have made her an inactive player, and would probably have been lynched by a Wolfbrother a few days down the track anyway, putting an end to that saga. It didn't really seem necessary to instate another player in her place.

 

However, if we've successfully killed of 2 darkfriends two lynches in a row, and a third leaves after a misunderstanding, leaving only one or maybe 2 darkfriends left - I could see Gamma getting worried. I could see him replacing the role instead of simply killing them or leaving them inactive. So, he appoints Joe.

 

In addition, I'm not sure how much is put in retrospectively, but the LG21 spec doc seemed to have a lot of game information that a player shouldn't have, such as access to view the Eliminator Doc. However, if someone is stepping in as an eliminator, then that's less of a problem - they know less information they shouldn't at that point in time.

 

Just so I can give a non-meta reason for my vote as well, I'll point out that Nyali seemed to tunnel on me quite a bit. Her only grounds for suspicion - I think her one and only argument on me (besides gut reads, which are hard to quantify), was to say that whatever I did, which may or may not have been a Darkfriend kill, was redirected on to Elodin, who was probably detained, if he wasn't lying to try and shift some votes off him, and that was why there wasn't a Darkfriend kill. Which is really quite flimsy reasoning if you think about it, particularly since part of her logic actually references another person that also would have been blocked by a Darkfriend kill, and ignoring all other possible reasons, in-game and meta, that could have led to that result. (If you want to accuse me of tunneling Nyali because she accused me, I nearly soft cleared her in my head. It was only when Joe replaced her that I grew suspicious.)

 

I'm going to sleep now. I'll be on again for rollover. (yay for weekend rollovers!)

[Straw he/him]

Info: Sheep is a village whitecloak.

[Master Elodin]

Info: Sheep is a village whitecloak.

Straw, what the storms? Publicly giving away info like that is a terrible idea. Moreover, it's not just you roleclaiming, you roleclaimed another person! Honestly, that's just a bad idea.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Straw, what the storms? Publicly giving away info like that is a terrible idea. Moreover, it's not just you roleclaiming, you roleclaimed another person! Honestly, that's just a bad idea.

He's already role claimed Viewer on D1, remember?

Sheep, this accurate?

[Master Elodin]

He's already role claimed Viewer on D1, remember?

Sheep, this accurate?

I know. My point still stands. Edited June 11, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I know. My point still stands.

How so? You said he shouldn't roleclaim. He did that a while ago. You said he shouldn't claim for others, while I agree, it isn't all that bad. Now Sheep can say whether or not his roles accurate, thus giving us a better read on Straw.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

All right. I was trying to work out whether or not to do this, but Joe. (I mean, I've got to spice up your life before the trip somehow, don't I?)

 

The reason I didn't want to is because it's almost entirely meta-reasoning.

 

<snip>

We tend to try to replace In actives with pinch hitters, rather than kill them if at all possible. And I specifically requested at the start of the Spec doc that it be spoiler free. The majority of the 23 pages was us trying to figure out where Alvron lives, (We've narrowed it down to less than half of the southern Island of New Zealand.) and a discussion about the WarriorCats series. (Ga'hoole was better). So no, I'm not an eliminator. Nor am I corrupted.

 

Anyway. I'm still behind on notes, becuase you guys are far too talkative. But did we ever get confirmation that Gunshy was the one to detain Elodin? Or could it have been Sheep?

 

And Mailliw, tonight, I'm probably going to go with the idea I told you, due to the last couple of posts.

Edited June 11, 2016 by The Only Joe

[Mailliw73 he/him]

And Mailliw, tonight, I'm probably going to go with the idea I told you, due to the last couple of posts.

Sounds good. I was going to request that anyways.

[Straw he/him]

I only posted Sheep's role because we need to know who has/will been/be detained. Also this will serve as role confirmation. Sorry if it bothers you.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Yeah, Straw, it would be best if you only revealed alignment, I think. Of course, Fain shows up as a villager and I assume he shows up as 'regular.'

 

Bard, the LG21 dead doc had all the spoilers in it and usually there's not so many spoilers in those. Anyways, Joe was in the spec doc which was kept spoiler free just in case there were any pinch-hitters needed. I only know that because I've been talking to a player in the spec doc and she told me not to tell her my role/alignment just in case she came in the game at some point. So while usually I would think along the same lines as you just did, I don't think it means anything in this case.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, Sheep, since your role is out there, could you tell us who you've detained so far?

Edited June 11, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Straw he/him]

Sheep, who have you detained?

[Haelbarde he/him]

Vote Tally

Meta(): Lopen(?), Elbereth

Elbereth(): Aman, Stink, Winter(?)

Phattemer(): Lopen

Joe(): The Young Bard

Mayor Tally

Hael(): Mail

Elbereth(): Seonid, Jaimee

Stink(): Winter

Meta() Stink

Aman(): Elbereth

Joe(): Conquestor

I think that's the vote tallies. Need to check the rules for retractions.

Edit: Dunno. Has Gamma required the original vote to be greened out? Because Winter and Lopen haven't, and I don't know how Gamma is doing it.

Probably more suspicious of Meta than Elb, so I'll vote Meta.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Haelbarde

[Elbereth she/her]

Back from the ACT, finally! (It went... not horribly.) To find that there's been barely another page.

So, I'm putting my vote back on Meta, much as I dislike doing it. And my reasoning, in addition to my and others' suspicions of him, is information. (Again.) Meta's death will tell us a lot, whether he turns out to be evil or not. If he's Village we know to look for those who've been pushing for his death (including me, yes, I know), and vice versa. This is particularly good with Meta because practically everyone's commented on him at some point, so there's a solid amount to be learned.

Plus, given that he's gone quiet, I don't know that he's doing us as much good staying alive anyway, unfortunately.

Regarding Mayor votes... I could vote for myself right now and make it fairly certain I'll be Mayor. My main concern with that is that it nets you basically no information about me. You know exactly how I'm going to use my power, given that I'm one of the people up for the lynch today. So you'd have to keep me as Mayor for another cycle to learn anything actually interesting about my opinions. Which I don't think we should do. Moving the Mayor around is much better than keeping it stagnant, and I don't want to set in stone the precedent Lopen set of two turns for each Mayor.

So I'm not sure yet. Guess I'll have to figure it out soon.

Hael, retractions don't have to be edited in the original post, but Gamma prefers it that way.

EDIT: Talk, people! At least half of the people who've posted since haven't commented on my questions, and Seonid, Meta, and Rubiks at the very least have all viewed the thread in the interim. Talk! Please!

Edited June 11, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[Haelbarde he/him]

@Bard: Re: Pinchhitter - I believe I've talked to the same person as Lopen, and they also said to not tell them anything because the spec doc was spoiler free. And with pinchhitters in general, players going inactive ruins the game for the other players. It's much better to replace a player who is not going to be able to continue playing than leave them their inactive.  It's not always possible though, but I think in a long game, it's worth doing. 

 

@Straw: I'd probably just stick posting with alignment in thread - if there are players you trust, you can tell them the roles of those you scan at night, and you're much more likely to tell a villager than either a DF or a corrupted, whereas in thread, you know for sure that both the corrupted and the DF's know. 

 

Bah. Vote tallies on mobile is painful. And thanks Elb.

 

Reposting the tallies:

Vote Tally
Meta(2+1):  Elbereth(+1), Hael
Elbereth(2): Aman, Stink

Phattemer(1): Lopen
Joe(1): The Young Bard

Mayor Tally
Hael(1): Mail
Elbereth(2): Seonid, Jaimee
Stink(1): Winter
Meta(1) Stink
Aman(1): Elbereth
Joe(1): Conquestor

 

I think those are correct, but do check - I may have missed people greening out their vote.