Long Game 14: To Shatter a Shard

[Haelbarde]

Also....wow. You guys really wanted me dead. 

Do you really blame us?  

Edited October 19, 2015 by Haelbarde

[Seonid]

 

Here's some things:

There was way too much information and role-revealing going on so early...I'm proud of myself for figuring out Wilson, or I was proud until I discovered that she blatantly told everyone else...

 

Mailliw, I'm not offended at all. I kept on telling Wilson not to kill you.

 

About this abuse I'm getting in the Spec Doc...

1.  I did strategize. I also want to strategize. I was looking at actions and roles quite a bit, and my analysis held up to me, at least until I realized that I had made a fundamental misconception about Passing Shards. Joe can attest to how many questions I was asking about mechanics. Everybody makes mistakes, but mine certainly didn't stem from a desire not to strategize.

 

2. A typical exchange in the Spec Doc goes like this. "Kipper is suggesting giving dowanx Odium and killing him." "Haha, Kipper's such an idiot. Doesn't he realize that dowanx already has a Shard?" "Haha no he doesn't. He deserves to die; he's so stupid."

Let me present to you a scenario. Say we have an Odium's Champion (or really anyone), holding an unbroken Shard. Kipper says (in-thread, mind you) that that particular player is going to die on the next Night. What will that player see as the most logical option to avoid dying? Ah yes, passing the Shard to someone else at the end of the day to be immediately disqualified for the Shardbuster. Passing Odium to the player and then killing them ensures that they are able to be killed by the Shardbuster, and also has a side effect of immediately sending Odium back to Endowment. So please don't say I'm stupid without considering all the reasons why I might suggest doing a gift/kill.

 

3. I got attacked for suggesting the "nuclear option," a few pages after other players said that they would use it if needed.

 

4. The only reason I suggested using the "nuclear option" is because I was being told literally nothing. I had no idea what STINK's actions were, because he didn't tell me. All I got was "what if I kill you with Odium," and other things like that. I had no PMs. I had no useful abilities. Nothing. I had no clue about the Dominion redirect. I got fed up with the entire thing, ESPECIALLY after we could have ended the game like two cycles earlier, but just uggghhhh.

 

This sounds like I'm being butthurt, or salty, or something, but really, I'm just irritated at the usual comments in the Dead Doc from players who clearly did not have the whole picture on what was going on. There's no hard feelings, though, because honestly, I'll probably do the same thing sometime if I ever die... Good game guys, and I look forward to playing again soon!

 

Re: 3 - I'm just about never in favor of the nuclear option. I'm not going to comment on other instances of it here - suffice it to say I think that it is one of the easiest ways to kill the fun of a game. But I don't think you were referring to me here.

 

Re: 4 - On the other hand, if I were in that situation, I can understand your frustration. (Actually, I was in your situation the cycle before I got lynched. So I have actually felt that frustration. )

 

Re: 1 - Yeah...that was me. Sorry. You're a better player than I gave you credit for in the doc. A much better player than I gave you credit for. My only defense is that I was mostly venting (what I perceived to be legitimate) frustration about getting lynched when I felt I shouldn't be.

 

Funny enough, I had actually forgiven you your part before I got to the dead doc, Kipper. I was mostly just mad at Stink. And then I found out that Wilson had set up the Dominion redirect of my kill ability in order to try and either convict me or clear me, and that (she thought) it should have been blindingly obvious that I wasn't guilty because I didn't have a kill to redirect. She thought you and Stink should easily have known it. And that made me far more angry, because neither of us could see how on earth anyone could miss that a plan they had taken part in making had worked. Especially after I had worked out the whole plan and sent it to you in a PM and you dismissed it by saying that Dominion couldn't be used that way. From my perspective, it felt like you had been deliberately ignoring all the evidence just because you wanted me lynched. That was uncharitable of me to think it, and I was wrong to do so. I'm sorry.

 

Re: 2 - In the doc, we were all aware that passing a shard the same night the kill happened wasn't going to be enough to protect against the kill. But I can see how that was a subtle point that could have been missed without asking the right questions. But mostly, for me it boils down to the same thing as Hael. I assumed that you and Stink and dow had actually been communicating. My assumptions led me to criticize you where it wasn't fully deserved.

 

About the Ruin thing, though. Endowment used Ruin twice before Quiver was killed, by passing it to me and me passing it back. So that point, at least, should have been clear. (Specifically, that Endowment could use the Shardic power of a broken shard every time it was given to her - I'm sure we talked about that loophole in our PM. It certainly was talked about in the thread - Mailliw asked how Ruin's kill could happen a second time, and Joe said we had found a loophole.)

 

The rest, though, was certainly me going overboard. My apologies for my part in sending undeserved abuse your way.

[Kipper]

...

Thanks for explaining a bit further. I do appreciate that, and no personal offense is taken. I understand how personal perspectives affect the way things appear...

 

In other news, I just deleted 27 PMs from this game. Can anyone top that? I guess Wilson probably can.

[little wilson]

In other news, I just deleted 27 PMs from this game. Can anyone top that? I guess Wilson probably can.

 

43 PMs for me. But I don't delete PMs. I just file them away in my folder for that game. Keeps my inbox clear and I don't lose conversations.

 

Also, I guarantee Joe can top 27. Joe probably has over 100. Most of which is my fault. 

[Kipper]

43 PMs for me. But I don't delete PMs. I just file them away in my folder for that game. Keeps my inbox clear and I don't lose conversations.

 

Also, I guarantee Joe can top 27. Joe probably has over 100. Most of which is my fault. 

Oh, dang. We can do that? Too late now. If you get around to it, will you reinvite me to the ones from the first couple days of the game? I had some stuff that I wanted to share with Mailliw...

[little wilson]

Oh, dang. We can do that? Too late now. If you get around to it, will you reinvite me to the ones from the first couple days of the game? I had some stuff that I wanted to share with Mailliw...

 

I wish I could, but I'm pretty sure once you delete or leave a PM, you can't be re-added to it. Because you still show as one of the people in there. I discovered this when I tried to add Kas to the QF GM PM a few days ago, because he's left that PM when he went on hiatus, but now that he's back on the GM list, he needed to be added to the PM. But I couldn't add him. I even contacted Chaos and he couldn't add him. So...yeah. I can see if it's the same for deleting, but I imagine it is.

 

EDIT: Yep. Shows you as just having left the conversation and when I try to add it says the member is participating and cannot be added. Sorry. :/

[TheMightyLopen]

I had 19 PM's from the game. 5 or 6 of those was from Worldhopping though, so I didn't actually have that many I guess. Mostly I just talked to Wilson(10 pages) and Mailliw(6 or 7 I think? Which was probably not a good thing, seeing as he was leaking info to the Eliminators). I talked to some other people some too, but not nearly as much as to those two. Maill started out with the poison lie to me, so I really shouldn't have blabbed as much as I did. Oh well, not too much harm done! 

[Mailliw73]

In other news, I just deleted 27 PMs from this game. Can anyone top that? I guess Wilson probably can.

Me. not sure how many, but there were more than that. But I also don't delete them.

Lopen, don't feel bad, lots of you fell for that gambit. Even Alv and Wilson thought I was a poisoner for a while.

Kipper, oh yeah, that's right. I'd be interested in that. If you can remember what you planned to tell me without the actual PM.

[Haelbarde]

All the OC thought you were a poisoner. Which was why we attacked you...

[TheMightyLopen]

I asked Wilson what your role was, and when she said you were probably a Poisoner, I thought that at least you had been honest with me. So I know he wasn't trying to trick me or anything! Yeah, brilliant, I know.   Although I did guess that you hadn't actually poisoned me. And I did eventually guess that you were Survival. So that's a small comfort at least! 

[Mailliw73]

Hael, I know. That was the point. I wanted everyone to assume that and it lasted until I was attacked. And even then, many still thought I was a poisoner.

Lopen, that's true. You did do that and I think you were the third(Hael and Wilson were first and second) to deduce my role.

[Haelbarde]

I think I had the benefit of knowing who Preservation and Hoid was. And the fact that I think Wilson knew the rest of them and thought you were Odium/Dominion, or something. You weren't meant to have a bonus life... :/

[Kipper]

I wish I could, but I'm pretty sure once you delete or leave a PM, you can't be re-added to it. Because you still show as one of the people in there. I discovered this when I tried to add Kas to the QF GM PM a few days ago, because he's left that PM when he went on hiatus, but now that he's back on the GM list, he needed to be added to the PM. But I couldn't add him. I even contacted Chaos and he couldn't add him. So...yeah. I can see if it's the same for deleting, but I imagine it is.

 

EDIT: Yep. Shows you as just having left the conversation and when I try to add it says the member is participating and cannot be added. Sorry. :/

Can you send me the archive then? Just of the one directly post-Orlok, with me and you.

 

edit: If you need my email, PM me.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Kipper

[Kipper]

The Stick hopped out of his humble abode, stretching as he moved. His fibers crackled and popped. Mm, almost like the sound of burning, he mused. NO, I AM A STICK! As usual, the thought was the first flash through his mind. Whenever the Stick considered changing himself, he was plagued with the absolute certainty that changing would mean his doom. I must remain strong, he thought. If I fail, who will hold the worlds together?

It had been easy when he held the Shard of Preservation. In fact, it had been a stroll on the beach for the Stick to hold Preservation. After all, his main purpose in life was simply to preserve himself, and the Intent of his Shard fit quite well. But then came the dark times. Lord Wilkin perished in the fiery wrath of Odium’s hate, after multiple attacks failed. The Cosmere was plunged into chaos. The Shards panicked, and began to sling their Shards about every which way, trying to do some damage and root out Odium’s Champions.
The Stick had been forced to give up Preservation. It was fine. He was fine. I’m still fine…NO, YOU ARE A STICK! But then he had been given the Shards of Ruin and Dominion. These almost broke him. How can a humble Stick remain sane and untwisted by two powerful Intents? The Shattered fragments of these Shards warred with each other in the Stick’s mind and almost broke him. When the time came, he willingly gave up the Shards. And then they asked the ultimate sacrifice of him.

To completely wipe out the root of evil from the Cosmere, the Stick was requested to take up the Shard of Odium, and work with Endowment to destroy the last of Odium’s Champions. The task was now finished. And in turn, the Stick was finished. The Hate was too much for his already assaulted psyche. He was done.

Stick walked up the hill to Lord Wilkin’s massive monument. Mm, this is rather ostentatious. He knelt at the grave. And relinquished his Shard. Ideally, the power of a Shard will raise even the dead, and with the power that Wilkin once held…well, it won’t be hard. The monument cracked and crumbled into the ground, leaving Wilkin, standing with glowing red eyes. The Stick was rather impressive in that moment, with licks of pure Hate still clinging to him, running over all his contours. He raised his head. He won’t remember me.

“W-Where am I?” Wilkin asked. “Who are you?”

I AM A STICK!

“I…am a Stick,” said the Stick. Then he walked away, back to the beach.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Kipper

[the winter system]

Ruin and Dominion? No, it's Ruin and Devotion which belong together. The true Shard of Chaos.

[Curious Anamaximder]

I didn't play in this game, but I am sure it was a great one! Thanks Joe!

[little wilson]

Wilson watched the Stick walk away, wondering how in Damnation a stick could walk. Hopping, sure, assuming it’s sentient and mobile, but walking? She shook her head and looked down at Wilkin’s monument. She knelt at the crack, staring into the ruins. Wilkin was down there. She thought she could see him, in the darkness. Just a piece of him. She felt bad about taking Odium from him, but when she’d caught wind of Stick’s plan, she’d refused to allow the Shard of Hate to corrupt her godson. Instead, she’d used Shao, disguising herself as Wilkin so she could take Odium.

 

She could feel it there, under her skin. The pure Hate. Even with her mental preparations, she could feel it seeping in, turning her. Not that there was much to turn. She knew she didn’t have much of a heart left. Not after all the things she’d done. If she decided to ever fully embrace Odium, she knew great things would happen. Or terrible, depending on one’s point of view. But great and terrible things always happened, and why should she not have a hand?

 

No. It was trying to tempt her into holding it, keeping it. But doing so would mean losing the last piece of herself she had left, and she wasn’t sure she wanted that. She'd done this for Wilkin. She’d sworn she’d find a way to bring him back, and Hatred was not it. She’d die before she let that happen--before she let him turn on people like Hal had. A Heatherlocke, hating her, hating her kin. All because of Odium. Wilkin would not follow that same path. But she needed to find somewhere else for it. Some person who could hold it. A number of acquaintances sprang to mind--people she’d barely gotten along with in the past--but she knew it needed to go to someone more capable. If she wasn’t to hold it, someone else like her surely wouldn’t hold it either.

 

She walked away from the monument, heading in the opposite direction of the beach, and shed her cloak along the way, dropping Shao and turning into herself. Red tinged the edges of her sight as she walked along the path. Her breath quickened, and she knew she didn’t have long. A day at best, a few hours at worst, before she wouldn’t be able to rid herself of it. Before she didn’t want to get rid of it.

 

She’d heard rumors of another Odium out there. A vestige of the Shard, somehow lost. No one knew where it had come from, but she thought maybe, just maybe, whoever had that could take the full Shard. If it hadn’t corrupted them yet. But it probably had.

 

Embracing the full Intent for a moment, she sought out that vestige, trying to feel where the other power might be coming from--if indeed the rumors were true. And she felt it. There, on Scadrial, a pulsing of Hate. She let the pure Hatred fall away quickly, and made the jump to Elendel, noticing that her vision as more red.

 

The faint pulsing of the other piece of Odium came from across the road, in a tavern, and she immediately started forward. She needed to find this person, study them and get rid of it before it was too late, assuming they were worthy, or find some other candidate quickly. She couldn’t waste any more time. Entering the tavern, she scanned the tables in the middle of the room, but no one stuck out to her. The pulsing was definitely coming from with in the room. Along the edge. One of the booths.

 

She started around the the room, trying to look casually into each booth but she hadn’t taken 10 steps before she heard her name. Or, rather, a name.

 

“Kiireon?”

 

She froze. She knew that voice. It reminded her of the throne room and more--meetings in secluded hallways, whispers in a candle lit room. Fire. Screaming. He wasn’t supposed to be here. Oh, she knew he’d survived, but she’d avoided him, since she knew he was trying to avenge her (nonexistent) death, and she liked that. It was a sweet gesture and she hadn’t wanted to mess it up. But now. He was here. Here. A surge of Hatred sprang up, but she smothered it. She refused to feel that way about him. She wouldn’t.

 

She turned, and there he was, sitting in a booth, nursing a drink. Staring at her, as if he were seeing a ghost. Which, in his mind, he was. He didn’t know she’d absorbed the fire and escaped. And then she noticed it. The pulsing. It was coming from him. She sat down heavily at his booth, mind racing. How could he have it? He couldn’t. Not him. She’d rather Wilkin have any part of Odium than him.

 

But the pulsing was definitely coming from him. Lightly. ….Far more lightly than she would’ve thought, sitting right across from it. It was almost as if…… As if a piece of his spiritweb was attached to it but not him. Could that be? She wasn’t sure, but it’s the only thing that made sense.

 

“You’re alive?” He squinted at her.

 

She smiled lightly, not really feeling anything amusing in the situation. “I survived, yes. Barely.” She watched his eyes, waiting. Knowing he’d likely be upset that she hadn’t told him. That she’d let him wander the Cosmere seeking vengeance. She needed to appease him. Somehow. And she knew how, even though she didn’t want to do that. He’d Hate her. But he’d probably grow to hate her if she did nothing too. At least if he had Odium, she could pretend that things might’ve been different. She glanced down at the table, feeling tears prick her eyes. Taking a breath and shoving her emotions aside, she looked back up at him. “I’m sorry I didn’t find you sooner. I have something for you.”

 

“What?”

 

“Power? It’s a Shard. A full Shard.” She figured he’d heard of the Shards. One could hardly wander the Cosmere and not learn of them at some point.

 

“Which one?”

 

She hesitated. This was it. The point of no return. She continued. “Odium.”

 

He stared at her unblinking. And then, eventually, he nodded.

 

Closing her eyes, she passed it, willed it to him. She felt it flee her body, the Hatred leaving. The red that had covered over half her vision--she could still see it even with her eyes closed--retreated. She didn’t open her eyes. She didn’t want to see the Hatred take him over. Dropping her head, she looked down at the table again, tracing the grains of wood with her hands. “Be careful with it. Try not to let it corrupt you.”

 

And then she stood and hurried away, not looking back at Edaan. She wondered what it would do to him. If the other piece attached to his spiritweb would make it harder to give into Hatred fully. If it would speed the corruption along. She hoped not, but she knew it was a blind hope. He would fall. He would be taken by the Intent. All the Shardholders had been.

 

If only she just let Stick give it to Wilkin. What have I done?

 

You wanted Odium, Alv. You’ve got it. Happy birthday.

And no, this totally isn’t payback for what you said you were going to do to me on my birthday. Nope.

[Alvron]

Kiireon was alive!  The shock of that still hadn’t worn off long after she had left the tavern.  He had wanted to call out as she left, to ask her to stay; but something stayed his hand, stilled his voice.

 

He could feel it.  Odium.  Hatred.  Clawing its way into his soul.  A voice whispering in his ear.  She left you.  Again.  How many did you kill in her name?  How much suffering did you cause for your vengeance?  Vengeance for someone who didn’t die?

 

No.  No!  I will not listen to you.  Not now.  Not after seeing her with his own eyes.  Edaan would not allow hatred to taint the memory of her.  Not so soon after she came back into his life.  

 

But the voice spoke truth.  Many had died in his misguided quest for vengeance.  His path was littered with the bodies of the slain.  True, he hadn’t welded the blade himself, no blood had been spilled by his hand, but still, he was the one that had given the orders.  His soul, if he still had one, had drowned in the blood and screams of his victims.

 

And yet, despite everything he had done, all the lives he had taken, there was a small flicker of hope.  Kiireon.  She lived.  Edaan had watched as Gerald Hobbes plunged a knife into her back..  Felt the flames that had consumed her body yet she lived.  It shouldn’t have been possible but somehow it was.

 

Hatred was churning within his breast.  The desire to kill, to feel the life flee from another was strong.  Yet underneath it was something else.  Something that fought against Odium. It wasn't strong but still it fought with everything it had.

 

Edaan stood and walked out the tavern without a backwards glance.  If he had he might’ve seen the single Aon that he had absently drawn in ale on his table.

 

Ati.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Alvron

[the winter system]

Chaos walked into the tavern, saw the Aon, and smiled. 

[The Honey Badger]

I had a bunch of fun with this game, i would like to point out that Joe was basically #ProGM, I don't think he slipped up once, and everything appeared to work pretty well. I didn't post a bunch, but I didn't really need to, I'm glad I was able to help out and I'm glad that despite all Mailiw's shenanigans, the Village won (barely). I look forward to playing with the rest of you guys in LG15.

[Haelbarde]

Hal watched with curiosity and surprise as Lady Kiireon took his old Shard from what remained of Hal's worthiest opponent. Maybe the legends of her past have some merit? He couldn't think why else she might seek the Shard of Hate. He followed her at a distance as she walked away from the monument to Wilkin. A shortwhile later, she stopped, shedding the illusion of Wikin she had donned when taking the Shard. He felt her begin to open herself to the Shard's power, seeking something. He made sure his residual Investiture was hidden, hoping that any trace would be hidden by his close proximity to the original source of the power, a quiet murmur in the midst of a raging battle. She seemed to find whatever it was that she was looking for, as she worldhopped moments later. Hal followed. He observed as she entered a tavern. He entered just as he heard someone call out her name.

 

"Kiireon." She had been walking, but froze as her name was called out. A few moments passed as she identified who it was, and what it meant. She sat down at the man's table, appearing somewhat deflated. Obviously this man was who she'd been seeking, but it seemed it was not who she was expected. Hal positioned himself where he could hear their conversation while out of sight.

 

"You're alive?" he heard the man say. At that moment Hal realized who it was, and his blood froze over. He immediately shifted, Hopping to a rooftop of a nearby building. He knew exactly who this man was, and he Hated him. This was the man who murdered his uncle, though Kiireon had vouched for him. Had he any real physical presence, he would have returned to the tavern, and killed the man on the spot. But he didn't, so he couldn't. While these thoughts tumbled around his head, he suddenly felt something shift. Odium had a new wielder. He focused. Yes, Edaan now bore Odium. A fury rose up in him, but then subsided as something dawned on him. Edaan had once loved Kiireon, and likely still did. But now he bore the Shard of Hate, and slowly, but surely, it would turn him, and eventually the man would grow to Hate Kiireon for who she was and what she had done. Hal could think of no better punishment for such a murderer. Hal shifted away, before either of them left.

 

---

 

Seeing Kiireon reminded him of a loose-end he had not yet tied, of a final letter to Wilkin that had remained unsent. He traveled to the abode of the scribe who he had left it with to send the letter to Wilkin upon the conclusion of the Shardic conflict. The conflict had since ended, but Wilkin had been one of it's victims, so the letter no longer had a place to go. He sat in an armchair and read the words he had penned in the days leading up to his own death. The yellowed parchment had been folded, sealed with red wax, bearing the ensignia of Clan Heatherlocke, infused with a sense of Hatred, which emanated from It. He broke the seal and began to read.

 

To Wilkin,

 

If you are reading this, then I must have died at the hands of you and your fellows, and this letter must have been finally delivered this once things calmed down. 

I would like to congratulate you on your victory. While your friends all had power, they only became a threat due to your personal effort to make an effective response to the threat you perceived me and mine to be. I know that we both gave it our all, and you came out victorious. I can respect that. Do I have regrets? Maybe. Carefully laid plans which were unable to be set into motion, that would have changed the course of events. But I don't regret bearing the Shard that is Odium. I had fulfilled my mission before having The Stranger's gift forced upon me. 

 

So fair well in what ever you do once events have played their course. Do not treat the others of Clan Heatherlocke for my sake. I acted on my own, separate from any Heatherlocke operation. If you seek to lay blame, hunt down The Stranger. I do not know how you received your own Shard, but if it was from him, know that you cannot trust him. 

 

Regards,

Hal Heatherlocke

Lord Odium

 

While Wilkin was no longer in a position to read this, Kiireon was. He would send it to her, but add an additional note to the end of the message.

 

Lady Kiireon,

 

Surprise! I survived. Mostly. Wilkin spoke of your survival in the correspondence we briefly exchanged. The Heatherlocke clan had no idea that you had survived the Desolation of Kae. They will be interested to hear this news.  

 

I see you found Edaan. Though I am surprised you found him, I have yet to decide if I am surprised by your actions in giving him that Shard. However, I am pleased with this turn of events. I can think of no better punishment for the murderer of Edrab Leah Heatherlocke. Should the time come that he must be put down, I will gladly give any aid I could offer.

 

I know that I no longer have a place that I can go - the Heatherlocke Clan will not welcome me back. But I can understand that. I shall watch, and be content, and when there is a Heatherlocke that falls astray, maybe I'll exert some influence to help them out. We shall see. Some Heatherlockes may fall. When I went back to watch from a far, I noticed something new. Each of them bore the seed of Hate. I do not know if it was always there, and I just could not sense it, or if it is new, but the point is, it is there. In most, the seed will never take root. But the potential is there. It will happen again. 

 

There is one last thing, a parting gift, and a peace offering, if you will. Did you ever wonder about why I was on Sel, when this all started? I'm sure you knew I was there. You will know that Edrab's family fled across the sea to the Empire, where Ableah took them in. When other political factions murdered Ableah, his awakened weapon was lost, and once we fled to Roshar, we were no longer in a position to recover it. I found it. Discord. It was at the moment that The Stranger gave me his Hateful gift. So I hid Discord, in a place where I knew no one would think to look. This will be my gift to you. And a warning. Don't come after me. You won't find me. And I can afford to let you have Discord. Keep that in mind. So, where did I hide it? In Wilkin's house. Specifically, tied to the underside of his bed. Do with it what you wish.

 

Regards,

 

Hal 'Berd' Heatherlocke

 

With that, he resealed the letter, marking it for delivery to Lady Kiieron. 

[the winter system]

Desolation of Kae? I'm still alive!

[Haelbarde]

Desolation of Kae? I'm still alive!

Maybe you were the cause of the desolation? 

(But if people had forgotten, Kae is the city to the north of Elantris where half of the book is set, and where LG12 was set)

Edited October 29, 2015 by Haelbarde

[the winter system]

Yup. And I was there too. Accidental puns. 

[little wilson]

Joe had some final thoughts he wanted to post, but it seems that he's gone on an indefinite hiatus, so I'm going to c/p his thoughts from the PM he sent them in so we can discuss.

 

 

Ok, time for the GM’s final Thoughts.

I messed up badly. The last game I ran was the first iteration of this Game, LG10, a Game of Shards. That game, as everyone knows, also went badly. It was a mess of imbalances, ending with the eliminators completely routed. I wanted this game to redeem that game, and I allowed that to bias me.

First off; How did I think this game was balanced?

I’ve heard that a lot, and it was. Team Odium had no Defensive roles, while Team Good had three LO’s and two protective Shards. I considered that balanced for three reasons; 1: The more experienced players would never believe that team good had all the protective roles. I knew if they didn’t have a good target, they would set about lynching their own protectors, which nearly happened. 2: Winter Cloud ended up with Ruin. I fully expected her to slaughter both teams equally. She didn’t do that, but that was only because of a chance occurrence. 3:Team Odium could double Tap players to ensure death. Team Good needed that many defensive roles to prevent the double taps from taking effect.

Secondly; Why did Team Odium have 6 Players?

That was a mistake on my part. Danstar/Phattemer was actually a Village poisoner at the beginning of the game, but at the time I gave Phat Dan’s role, Team Odium had One active player, and everyone knew who he was. The other three champions were all Inactive. So I gave them phatt as well. Immediately afterward, the other champions returned to Activity.

Thirdly; What was with the Lifeless shenanigans?

Alvom Halbin died while his lifeless was guarding Wilson. He made a very good argument for it to continue guarding wilson after his own death, so I let it happen. (I’m a sucker for RP arguments or Song Parodies)

Paranoid King had two lifeless? What?

Not quite. PK’s lifeless dies defending wilson from Poison. I jokingly told him if he could RP a reason for its survival, I would let it happen. He took it seriously and did so. I wasn’t going to let him have it, but then Team Odium figured out how to triple tap, and received another player. So I let him have it.

Fourth: Why did Alvron never truly die?

At the Time of Alvron’s death, Three of the champions were inactive, and Odium was known to Team good. So i allowed him to stay in the doc and send in orders for the inactive eliminators. I only sent him and Hael to the dead doc once it was pointed out to me just how much that changed the game. The village thought that Alv was dead, but he was still making plans.

What would you change?

Neutrality.

The possibility of Hoid switching sides nearly killed the village. The eliminators accidently convinced Wilson that Seonid had gone evil, so she and the rest of the village spent a long time not trusting him. If I ever run this game again, ( I won’t) I’d take out the possibilities for Survival and Hoid to switch sides. I may keep them both neutral though.

Plus the ability for Survival and Hoid to change sides made it impossible to correctly balance the game.

 

 

 

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To kick this off, I'm going to comment on some of these points. First, though, I want to say that Joe took the breaks from LG10, and he fixed them admirably. LG10 had some serious problems, but Joe let that game play out without getting involved, and because of that, the breaks were very obvious, and it was clear how bad they were. Joe figured out how to fix them, and from what I can tell, the ruleset for LG14 is pretty much perfectly balanced (though I think Dominion could use a little tweaking because it's scarily OP in the hands of the eliminators right now). Hats off to him for that effort, because I think it was great. He showcased exactly what I like to see in these games: taking a game that was broken, fixing it, and then rerunning the fixed version.

 

There was just one problem, and he admits it: Bias. Which leads me to my issues with this game. There are three of them, and he touches on all of them in his comments, but I disagree with his points about them.

 

 

First, adding an eliminator. Joe says that the team had 3 fully inactive players. That is untrue. Eol, Antillar, and Raven would be classified as borderline to semi-inactive at the beginning of the game. Karlin was inactive. Dan was inactive. But both of those players were on the village side. Eol, Antillar, and Raven showed up occasionally in the thread and they talked in PMs. I know because I was Cultivation. Eol became the most popular player there in PMs for a short time in the first few cycles. From what I've seen in the doc, they didn't talk much there, but they weren't even inactive there. Not fully. I think they talked about once a cycle. Which has happened with teams in the past.

 

MR2 had a 4 person eliminator team, and one of those players (Joe himself) was fully inactive. LG7 had a 4 person eliminator team, and only one player was semi-active while the other 3 were borderline/semi-inactive. One of those three could actually probably be counted as fully inactive. LG9 had a 3 person eliminator team and one of those was borderline and another was semi-active. MR8 had a 5 person eliminator team, with one fully inactive player and another semi-active.

 

Did all of those prior teams lose? No. MR2 and LG7 did, but LG9 and MR8 won, barely. And those aren't all the teams that have had problems with activity. That's just 4 out of the 37 games that have been played (33 if we don't want to count faction games and free-for-alls). Most teams have had a borderline/semi-inactive player. Only a few teams have ever had a fully inactive player.

 

Does this mean that it's never right to add an eliminator to a team if players aren't active? No. But I personally think that the only way the situation would call for it is if the GM built the team requiring for every single person to be fully and completely active. I also personally don't think the GM should ever build a team requiring that kind of activity, because it's impossible to plan for, since inactivity just happens, and it can happen to anyone, though some players are more prone to it than others.

 

I do not think this game called for it. There were 5 eliminators and 27 players in the game. That's 18.5% of the players. I personally think it should hit somewhere between 15-25%, so that works. It's a little on the low-end, but when you factor in the power of Odium and Dominion and that Survival is neutral and can switch sides to join them, and that even Hoid could join, given the right circumstances (which they could've made, with Dominion), that percentage is perfect. There are only two members of their team that need to be fully and completely active: Odium and Dominion. The others can afford to be a little less active, but those two are necessary to the team's survival. Both of them were active.

 

The other three, activity-wise, aren't ideal teammates, but they were at least partially active. None of them, except for maybe Eol, right around the time Phatt was added to the team, would classify as fully inactive. Raven was simply busy with college, but she was checking in occasionally, and Antillar was also checking in. Their situation did not warrant adding an additional eliminator, particularly not when Survival is held by LG10's Odium, who you know is never going to fully side with the village, given the way LG10 turned out.

 

 

The team figured out how to triple tap. Yes, they did. But they didn't come up with that idea themselves. Joe told them: 

 

you know what I just realized? You could in theory triple tap someone.

Hael gives up his shard today, Odium2 invests tonight. That investe will be able to make a kill tomorrow. Odium 2 invests in the day, so that a second champion can also make a kill that night.

 

It's long been said that the GM shouldn't give ideas to either team, even if they really want to see something happen. But they really shouldn't give full-on strategy to the team and spell out exactly how to do what they'd really like to see happen. That is bias of a clear sort.

 

Alv never fully died. It wasn't just Alv. It was Hael too. Alv and Hael were both allowed to stay in the doc after their deaths, despite precedence being that eliminators who die go to the dead doc and no longer talk in the eliminator doc. Now, if Joe wanted to do a puppet master, okay. Alv can stay and discuss. But just Alv. Having Hael there as well is basically keeping both players on the team. Sure, they don't have the ability to do anything and they can't talk in the thread, but why would they need to talk in the thread when they're not even technically alive? They're just more brainpower.

 

I mean, if we're going to do things like that, why ever kick eliminators out of the doc when they die? Let's let them continue planning and strategizing. No harm can come from that. I'm sure no one would mind if Wyrm let me join the LG15b eliminator doc again so I could help out my teammates there. Right?

 

Beyond that, there's the whole idea of the puppet master. Joe didn't give the village any inkling that there was the possibility of a puppet master until 4 cycles after Alv had supposedly died. Not only that, but even if we count Eol, Antillar, and Raven as having been inactive, they weren't the only inactives in the game. Dan and Karlin were also inactive. Yeah, Dan was replaced by Phatt and switched to be an eliminator, but that's not the point. The point is that the village also had a problem with inactives, but never got a puppet master of their own.

 

This was a perfect opportunity for Joe to help out both teams in an unbiased fashion. Give the eliminators a puppet master for their inactives, and also give the village a puppet master for theirs. By giving the village a puppet master for theirs, it gives the village the idea that "hey, maybe the eliminators have a puppet master too...."

 

Why does this matter? Because the eliminators, who had a puppet master, decided to ditch Odium with Karlin, who they knew was inactive and didn't have a puppet master, so they knew that Odium would be hidden for 72 hours. If the village had had a puppet master, this would not have been possible, since they would've known that the eliminators didn't have Odium and therefore couldn't kill. The eliminators took advantage of the GMs bias towards them, as is really only strategic for them to do.

 

 

The thing that really gets me, though, is that this game started as perfectly balanced. Both teams had a completely equal chance of winning. The only reason things went so awry for the eliminators is because the village got lucky. Yes, there was some skill and analysis involved, but most of it was luck. And luck is just a thing with these games. Sometimes, Eliminator!Meta gets scanned on the first cycle, while also getting roleblocked when attempting a kill. Sometimes a vigilante Coinshot shoots the eliminator Mistborn on the first night. Sometimes Devotion is killed on the first cycle. Or Cultivation tries to invest in Odium on Cycle 3. That's just the way things go. Luck happens and for the GM to try to counter it means fighting against the way of the game and then bias plays a part.

 

But it doesn't have to. While GMs control their game, in terms of luck and messing around with mechanics, I think a hands-off approach, except in the most dire of circumstances is better than getting involved every time something happens, since, because you're not messing with things, you can't be accused of bias. It didn't play a part. And in the most dire of circumstances, when one side is losing horribly due to a broken mechanic (and not due to luck or skill), then it's okay to intervene (after discussing with the impartial mod). But even in that situation, if a GM still wants to take a hands-off approach, that's perfectly acceptable.

 

There's recently been a lot of discussion about "fun" and I support a lot of that discussion. The games should be fun. People should be playing to have fun, and it shouldn't be about winning. Winning should only be secondary. But some of that discussion has been applied to GMs and how GMs should make sure that everyone is having fun. The GMs have enough on their plate just with running the game and the stress and responsibility of that, that I don't think adding on something arbitrary like "fun" is a good move. How do you make sure that everyone is having fun? What if one side is having more fun than the other? What if one side had some bad luck and is losing and now they're not having fun? Or maybe they made some bad decisions and now they're losing and not having fun. What's the GM supposed to do? How do they decide how to act without looking biased towards that side?

 

They can't. It's simple as that. Either you choose to intervene and try to help that side have more fun or you take a step and just let the game play out. The first choice will result in bias. Even if both sides seem like they're having fun, when the game ends and the team you countered realizes what you did, there will be players on that team who view it as biased and then the game loses its fun because they'll think the GM didn't actually want them to win. That would be especially true if the intervention resulted in the originally unhappy side going on to win the game. And if the GM lets the game play out, that side that was unhappy will continue to be unhappy. Is that the GMs fault? Absolutely not.

 

At the end of the day, if there are going to be people who don't have fun, there's nothing the GM can do to prevent that. And it's not their job to prevent it. While the GMs should make sure their games can be fun, that's pre-game. That's during the building phase and setup and all of that. Once the game starts, it's just about keeping the game running smoothly, since that's a big enough job as it is. Ultimately, it's up to the players themselves whether we have fun or not. It's our decision. You can have fun whether you're winning or losing. The GM just gives you the game to play to nurture that fun that you've already decided on.