What Is So Special About The Kholin Family?

[ZxlinkxZ]

Jasnah, Dalinar, Renarin and possibly Elhokar.

 

They all bonded with spren. Surely this can't be coincidence.

[natc]

You mean this story isn't about the Knights Kholin?

Edited March 29, 2015 by natc

[Lord Pifferdoo]

Maybe something related to Dalinar's boon? 

"I wish for my family to achieve honor and greatness."

Or something like that. 

[Patrick Star]

I am absolutely SICK of having to repeat my PERFECTLY ACCURATE, 100% TRUE, AUTHOR-VERIFIED fact that we are not following the Knights Radiant, but the KNIGHTS KHOLIN.

 

Here's where the evidence originally surfaced: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/23344-relationships-between-heralds/page-2

 

It is absolutely true.  You cannot deny it.

 

The Heralds are the original Kholins, which is why the Knights Kholin are being founded.

 

Adolin Kholin, Dalinar Kholin, Navani Kholin, Renarin Kholin, and Jasnah Kholin are only scratching the surface.

 

First, Szeth's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-Grandfather was a Kholin.  So Szeth is Szeth-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-son-Kholin.  Kholin connection.

 

There was a theory floating around that Kaladin's mother was part of a lighteyed or mix-eyed family.  She's loosely related to the Kholin clan.

 

Why is Lift on the run?  She was kicked out by Dalinar Kholin on the night that his wife died (for some reason).

 

Shallan's mother was also descended from the Kholins.  See?  The gang's getting back together.

 

[Mckeedee123]

Maybe something related to Dalinar's boon? 

"I wish for my family to achieve honor and greatness."

Or something like that. 

 

Ha! I'm actually half convinced right now that Kaladin is going to end up marrying Jasnah, take the Kholin name, and make for a nice, sappy, everyone's-related-to-each-other style ending, a la The Importance of Being Ernest or something (they'd make an odd pair, being pretty much the two least affectionate characters in the books so far, but it could work)

[BirchTree]

Well so far as i can see it comes down to three real possible reasons  

 

1. It's genetic and the theory's that the kholins are realeated to the heralds would make some sense. As far as evidence for this We know that the stormfather has contacted two of them to save the world, because if i was an all powerful deity thats who id go for. but on the other hand i remember something about i poor beggar having the same visions in one of the notes for taravageyn (or however you spell that)

 

2. It about the type of people that would attract spren, we know that all the Kholins are pretty damnation honorable people (our fallen god) so it may just be that because of the family culture they just happen to be what spren look for, our that the spren are seeking out powerful people (lift's spren even says that they should have chosen someone more important and we know people think of the Kholins as some of the most powerfull people in the world) but adolin doesn't have a spren so that would argue against that theory

 

Lastly its just just convient to be written that way, but i  dont think sanderson is that lazy of an author i think it will be explained later on. 

 

What do you think?

[Smidge]

Well so far as i can see it comes down to three real possible reasons  

 

1. It's genetic and the theory's that the kholins are realeated to the heralds would make some sense. As far as evidence for this We know that the stormfather has contacted two of them to save the world, because if i was an all powerful deity thats who id go for. but on the other hand i remember something about i poor beggar having the same visions in one of the notes for taravageyn (or however you spell that)

 

2. It about the type of people that would attract spren, we know that all the Kholins are pretty damnation honorable people (our fallen god) so it may just be that because of the family culture they just happen to be what spren look for, our that the spren are seeking out powerful people (lift's spren even says that they should have chosen someone more important and we know people think of the Kholins as some of the most powerfull people in the world) but adolin doesn't have a spren so that would argue against that theory

 

Lastly its just just convient to be written that way, but i  dont think sanderson is that lazy of an author i think it will be explained later on. 

 

What do you think?

1. Brandon has said before that unlike Mistborn / Scadrial the magic in Stormlight was made to come from people's actions rather than genetic factors. Link.

 

He talked about the link between his magic systems. One of the core principles is 'investing'. In a lot of his systems people are through some mechanism invested with magic powers. In Elantris through the Shaod, In Mistborn it's genetic, in The Way of Kings it depends on what someone has done.

 

 

2. I think you're dead on here. Wyndle's comment tells us that at least some spren can make a choice who to bond. It makes sense that any honorable people of influence would have a spren choose to bond them.

[Voidus]

1. Brandon has said before that unlike Mistborn / Scadrial the magic in Stormlight was made to come from people's actions rather than genetic factors. Link.

 

 

2. I think you're dead on here. Wyndle's comment tells us that at least some spren can make a choice who to bond. It makes sense that any honorable people of influence would have a spren choose to bond them.

Not directly genetic certainly but I'm still inclined to believe there's a certain amount of genetic predisposition combined with the fact that as we've seen with Dalinar honorable fathers tend to raise honorable sons.

[natc]

They're also a pretty messed up group of relatives, which also helps leave a big enough gap in the spiritweb to invest through.

I actually find it amusing that Syl lacks Wyndle's sentiments on choosing unimportant people. And it worked out in the end. Honorspren really don't seem to be a pragmatic race.

[littlemag126]

it also simply makes sense if the spren are going to bond people that many of them would bond people close to a bondsmith, like if you have 2 candidates and one is next to all the action and one is off in the middle of nowhere... you choose the guy with more connections, like if you want to make a difference and save the world you bond people who are in a position to make a difference.

[Bremen]

2. I think you're dead on here. Wyndle's comment tells us that at least some spren can make a choice who to bond. It makes sense that any honorable people of influence would have a spren choose to bond them.

Nohadon laments in a vision that not all spren are as picky as Honorspren.

 

I wonder if Adolin's lack of a bond signifies anything... like he already has one with his blade?

[galendo]

From a meta-perspective, it's probably mostly convevience.  Sanderson needs a lot of characters around for his main characters (Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, and arguably Adolin) to interact with.  He also needs a number of Knights Radiant.  He's obviously chosen to make the setting Dalinar/Adolin-centric, which is a natural choice since more world-shaking stuff tends to happen around nobility than around commoners (yes, Shallan's technically petty nobility, but the point still holds).

 

So if you need a bunch of characters around your Radients, and you need a bunch of Radiants, and you probably want most of your Radiants to congregate and cooporate with each other against the baddies, then what better way to kill all the birds with a single stone?  Radiants related to each other provide a lot of characters with immediate reasons to cooperate.  Jasnah, for instance, gives Shallan a character to interact with throughout WoK, but it's her relationship to Dalinar that draws Shallan into the Kaladin-Dalinar-Adolin circle in WoR.  And Jasnah herself won't need a reason to join the circle whenever she gets around to it.  Her relationship to Dalinar is enough to draw her in.

 

From an in-world perspective, I'd say that you could justify the Kholin's Radiant tendencies by the children being influenced by the father, who's a pretty darn honorable guy himself.  (Even if that doesn't really explain Jasnah, who became Radiant before Dalinar shaped up.)  But if you want the true reason, I'd say it's plot convenience.  Neither the author nor the readers want hundreds of characters and plot threads to keep track of in order to accomodate a dozen disjoint Knights Radiant.

[maxal]

Nohadon laments in a vision that not all spren are as picky as Honorspren.

 

I wonder if Adolin's lack of a bond signifies anything... like he already has one with his blade?

 

Adolin is not broken. So far, the sprens have never gone towards an individual not previously broken. No matter how honorable Adolin is, as long as his soul is intact, I suspect sprens will stay away from him. Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Renarin, Jasnah all were broken before the sprens manifested themselves, not after.

 

Other reason is he is investing too much into his dead-Blade. The sprens have not gone towards any Shardbearer, Dalinar being the exception, but then again, Dalinar has never considered Oathbringer as anything else then a tool and his case is special. His interaction with his Blade were very different then Adolin who personalized his, who feels privileged to have the Blade come to his summons, who thinks the Blade is bigger then himself, who realized how presumptuous it would be of him to name it as the Blade did have a name, he just did not know it. All in all, Adolin's vision of his Blade is so deep, even with a broken soul, I'd wager the sprens would stay away from him for this specific reason. I also doubt Adolin would unbound his Blade as easily as Dalinar and feel good about it...

 

I am growing increasingly convinced the only way for Adolin to become a Radiant is to revive his dead-Blade. As the process already started? Probably. There a few clues, but they are still inconclusive at best. <<

 

As for the Kohlins, I guess there are just very important people with means to make a difference. As soon as the Stormfather went for Dalinar, other sprens were bound to interest themselves into the Kohlins. Ivory sure picked Jasnah years ago. Glys most likely chose Renarin due to his proximity to Dalinar. Not all sprens, even within the same order, must have the same criteria when it comes to bonding someone. Syl obviously did not care about parentage, but would another Windspren think the same? Kaladin cannot have been the only potential candidate for a Windrunner, though there does not seem to be any within the Kohlin family... so Syl had to wander farther away...

[Patrick Star]

I actually find it amusing that Syl lacks Wyndle's sentiments on choosing unimportant people. And it worked out in the end. Honorspren really don't seem to be a pragmatic race.

 

That's because Wyndle is an edgedancerspren.  Edgedancers are all about the unimportant people, so Edgedancerspren would share that view.

[Newan]

I think the secret is in the name:  "Knights Radiant"

 

I think that the most important idea behind the Knights Radiant is that they lift up those around them, like they're radiating honor.  Kaladin makes his bridge crew want to be better people, and now they're becoming his squires.  Dalinar raised his family to be honorable and just, and now many of them are being chosen by spren.  

 

Basically, I think Dalinar gave his family the best kind of radiation poisoning.  

[hoser]

I think the secret is in the name:  "Knights Radiant"

 

...the best kind of radiation poisoning.  

"radiation poisoning" - snap-upvote

[natc]

That's because Wyndle is an edgedancerspren. Edgedancers are all about the unimportant people, so Edgedancerspren would share that view.

Wyndle was all going on about why they wouldn't let him pick someone more important though . . .

[Triasmus]

I don't think wyndle was complaining about being with someone unimportant... From what I recall he was complaining about being with someone who's immature.

He was saying that he wanted to pick a certain grandmother. Yes, she would have been important to her family, but that was the only "importance" that could have been implied by his complaining.

[dvoraen]

I think the secret is in the name:  "Knights Radiant"

 

I think that the most important idea behind the Knights Radiant is that they lift up those around them, like they're radiating honor.  Kaladin makes his bridge crew want to be better people, and now they're becoming his squires.  Dalinar raised his family to be honorable and just, and now many of them are being chosen by spren.  

 

Basically, I think Dalinar gave his family the best kind of radiation poisoning.  

Honestly, Investiture seems to have quite a few parallels to radiation poisoning (with addiction factors added in).  Brandon has more than hinted at this.

[N006+ard4life]

I'm really curious as to what broke Renarin and Jasnah.  I've read countless times that Adolin can't be a surgebinder because he hasn't been broken due to his life as a prince.  Renarin has also had a pretty plush life as far as we know, so what broke him?

[Lord Pifferdoo]

I could definitely see a future plot point of the books being Adolin trying to become a Knight, failing, then having someone close to him die, being subsequently broken, and then becoming a Surgebinder. Best guess? Renarin or Dalinar. Second Guess? Shallan. 

 

Jasnah must have had something in her past that turned her cold and logical. She probably started out just like a serious but enthusiastic science nerd, and then became broken. Maybe at her father's death? Or possibly before, considering she was doing some pleasantly skullduggery things during the feast. 

 

As for Renarin, he was sickly, so he may be broken in association with that (maybe a particularly bad seizure?). He would also have been pretty young when his mother died (presumably, we don't know much about Mrs. Kholin) and could be broken as a result of that. 

[maxal]

My latest thoughts on Renarin are he was not broken as nothing in his life seems dire enough to have "broken" him, not like Kaladin, Shallan or Dalinar. His mother died, true, but he seems much less affected by this then his brother who is not broken. Renarin has always been over-sheltered and over-protected by both Dalinar and Adolin... I cannot see any harm come his way other then the harm he created for himself, on the inside.

 

I am thus starting to think he was never whole. His soul never grew as it should have, thus leaving holes for the Nahel bond to take place. He was a sick child who grew up feeling useless and out-of-the-place. He never develop any self-esteem or sense of wroth, he never reached his full potential, he never exploited his strength... He may not even know what they are... As a result, his soul never grew. He is empty on the inside, he has always been. This probably won't be a popular theory, but it is my latest take on Renarin. Other explanations do not seem strong enough for me.

 

My latest thoughts on Jasnah are her parents were not a happy couple and, as a teenager, she discovered all it is her mother had to give up when marrying Galivar. She thus set herself on the path of celibacy and later on atheism such as to never become her mother. She became cold towards Navani as she grew to despise the choices her mother made and refused to ever never grow up like her. It is a common trope for girls to refute whatever it is their mothers ever stand for. I cannot see Jasnah as "broken", I would say she is cracked by years and years of having to fight her way against the whole world who stood against her. Tiring. Hence, she cracked, some, enough for a Nahel bond.

 

Adolin trying and failing? Maybe. But I doubt Renarin will die.

[AerionBFII]

Renarin always seems to be swept aside almost brushed off even by his own family. I know Dalinar and Adolin care about him a great deal but they never seem to give him a chance to flourish or help build his confidence. Despite being overshadowed by a famous Dueling elder brother and a Warlord father he is always supportive and never seems to let those emotions turn negative regarding his family. Even Dalinar accepts that is something he could never have done. I think he turns those emotions on himself. In a nation where strength seems to be respected being an "invalid" must be emotionally crippling. 

 

That's why i like him so much, his strength of character is impressive. I think this is the reason a Spren would have sought him out.

[CodeMnke]

For Jasnah, wasn't there something in WoK that implied she had been attacked by men before (i vaguely remember some dialog between her and Shallan after Jasnah killed the men in the alley). Don't have the book here with me or i would check.

[CodeMnke]

For Renarin and Adolin there is also the possibility of losing their mother had something to do with it, we don't know enough about that yet. Not sure if the loss of Sureblood is enough to be "broken". You also had a previous "Warlord" father. We know Dalinar is a "good" guy now, but we also know he did not used to be.