Shard of Adonalsium Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Possible necropost, but I gotta post this. "Don't you hear me Syl?" Kaladin whispered. "I'm a broken man, Syl." She giggled. "That's what they all were, silly."
Sennah he/him Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Renarin has also had a pretty plush life as far as we know, so what broke him? Probably because he's a crapple. Edited April 28, 2015 by Sennah
Loni she/her Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Jealousy, envy, guilt, etc. Yes, that could definitely break even the greatest of people, in a sense. Adolin may break because of going against his father, or because it seems that everyone around him is a Radiant. I mean, his father, cousin, brother, captain of the guard and even his girlfriend are all Radiants, so... he probably feels left out. Even though Sadeas is dead, that brings up another question: What will Ialai think, and will she try to assasinate Adolin or something for revenge? She seems like such a scary person, and the kind of woman that would totally do that sort of thing. I hadn't even thought about Ialai's reaction yet. Her intensity and drive, placed to find the killer, could be terrifying. What would it take for her to break and become even scarier -- someone with surgebinding powers? Sheesh, that gave me a shiver. But, away from the Ialai/Adolin questions -- why haven't we seen more spren outside of the Kholin's reach? While the highprinces seem ...ahem.... less than honorable, all of Alethkar can't be honor-less. And do you think Navani might bond one? 1
Elsecaller3414 she/her Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 I have heard theories that Navani might bond with one, though the only experience that I know of that would cause her to break is Gavilar dying. Maybe Jasnah too, I guess, but that is more recent. We have seen people outside of the nobility that have manifested powers, though I agree that there have not been many. 2
Loni she/her Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) I have heard theories that Navani might bond with one, though the only experience that I know of that would cause her to break is Gavilar dying. Maybe Jasnah too, I guess, but that is more recent. I think the Jasnah-grief would do it....read the Epigram for chapter 7, WoR. She mentions the grief crushing her. Edited April 29, 2015 by Loni 1
MitchBade he/him Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 I'm really curious as to what broke Renarin and Jasnah. I've read countless times that Adolin can't be a surgebinder because he hasn't been broken due to his life as a prince. Renarin has also had a pretty plush life as far as we know, so what broke him? My guess would be the countless hours he has spent probably hating himself and his life because he felt and still feels that he is useless. He believes he is unfit for his role and life and it has seriously messed him up mentally. I don't think physical trials and tribulations are necessary for one to "break." 1
Elsecaller3414 she/her Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 My guess would be the countless hours he has spent probably hating himself and his life because he felt and still feels that he is useless. He believes he is unfit for his role and life and it has seriously messed him up mentally. I don't think physical trials and tribulations are necessary for one to "break." I agree with you in this sense. Renarin also had an older brother that he could never look up to, so maybe Dalinar seemed to favor Adolin? Kind of hard for the son of a warrior when he is not one himself. 2
Guest Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 I agree with you in this sense. Renarin also had an older brother that he could never look up to, so maybe Dalinar seemed to favor Adolin? Kind of hard for the son of a warrior when he is not one himself. Renarin could not look up to Adolin? That is quite the contrary: Renarin always looks up to Adolin and Adolin is quite the over-protective brother when it comes to his younger sibling. It could be Adolin being such a good duelist put an emphasis Renarin's feeling of uselessness, however, he never grew jealous or envious of his brother. Quite the opposite, Renarin is admiring Adolin, he is proud he is his brother. As for Dalinar favoring Adolin, I also disagree. Dalinar is rather soft with his younger son: he even goes as far as to give him Shards while knowing full well he is unsuited for them. Let's not forget Dalinar was the one who insisted all Shards won should be given to the king so he could bestowed them on the best warriors... and yet he goes against his own counsel to favor his younger unfitted son, out of love. We can't blame him for the sentient, but we can't say he does not favor Renarin... As for Adolin, there is no one living Dalinar goes as harsh on as Adolin: his elder son is not allowed one misstep. Dalinar is much more lenient towards Renarin.... he lets him join Bridge 4, he lets him drop his lessons, he lets him be idle all day instead of enforcing work on him. Try to imagine how Dalinar would react if Adoln suddenly decided he would not fulfill his duties or if he wanted to join a Bridge crew... Adolin begged his father countless times to have him lessen his rules to allow him a bit of free time and the answer has always been no. Renarin does the same to have a chance at being a warrior and he gets his wish. Bottom line is Renarin is the classic over-sheltered young sibling with a disability who has been rendered useless by an excess of care... He'd probably fare better if someone had actually try to find him a suitable role in the household. Whatever broke Renarin, it is not a lack of care or love... an excess maybe? He was treated like an easily broken vase and put on a table to display? Just that would be enough for a child to grow himself a low self-esteem, which just does not happen in one day.
Elsecaller3414 she/her Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 Let me rephrase... What I meant to say is that yes, he does look up to Adolin, but he might not feel that he has the capacity to follow in Adolin's footsteps, at least not as much as he would like. My bad about that. I also agree about the treatment, now that I think about it. If you didn't notice, Dalinar let Adolin join an army a while back so he could know what it was like. He was probably offering a similar experience to Renarin, except that Renarin chose the bridge crews instead. Also, Adolin is the heir, and Renarin is not, so he has a role to fulfill. 2
Guest Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 Let me rephrase... What I meant to say is that yes, he does look up to Adolin, but he might not feel that he has the capacity to follow in Adolin's footsteps, at least not as much as he would like. My bad about that. I also agree about the treatment, now that I think about it. If you didn't notice, Dalinar let Adolin join an army a while back so he could know what it was like. He was probably offering a similar experience to Renarin, except that Renarin chose the bridge crews instead. Also, Adolin is the heir, and Renarin is not, so he has a role to fulfill. Oh sorry. It was not as clear in your previous post: I thought you were saying Renarin didn't like his brother or something... Dalinar placed Adolin into a spear crew for a few months to have him learn his way into the army. That happened when they arrived on the Shattered Plains as before Galivar's death, Adolin did not want to become a soldier. He asked to join the army in an attempt to "fix" his grieving father naively thinking if they killed enough Parshendi, he may go back to the old Dalinar. Dalinar did not offer the same experience to Renarin: Renarin decided on his own to join the crew and put his father in front of the done fact. That kid has more guts then we give him credit for as I doubt Adolin would have done the same. I do think it is likely Dalinar did not commit to fully train Renarin until he starts seeing the results on the said training. Let's not forget 16 years old Adolin already was a prodigy fighter, wining himself a Blade, a feat hardly performed by seasoned warriors such as Sadeas. Besides, I do no think Dalinar was doing Adolin a favor or favoring him when he put him there: he did it to train his son into the ways of a soldier. As for Adolin being the heir, he gets an extra training on the perks of being a Highprince. He is doing a mistake however in not offering the same to Renarin, probably because he thinks the boy would not be able to take the pressure.
Elsecaller3414 she/her Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 And what if Dalinar and Adolin had both died at the Tower battle, when Sadeas betrayed them? Renarin would have no idea what he was doing, and would virtually be eaten alive by the other highprinces. You make a good point. Renarin seems like a person that would be willing to rule if he had to, but not because it was inevitable. Adolin seems to be a little more on the side of a spoiled child, sometimes. He frustrates me quite a bit. Also, I can see how you thought I meant Renarin didn't like Adolin, because I looked back at it and it didn't even make sense to me.
Guest Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 And what if Dalinar and Adolin had both died at the Tower battle, when Sadeas betrayed them? Renarin would have no idea what he was doing, and would virtually be eaten alive by the other highprinces. You make a good point. Renarin seems like a person that would be willing to rule if he had to, but not because it was inevitable. Adolin seems to be a little more on the side of a spoiled child, sometimes. He frustrates me quite a bit. Also, I can see how you thought I meant Renarin didn't like Adolin, because I looked back at it and it didn't even make sense to me. Exactly, the point is Dalinar left Renarin unprepared to assume the role of a Highprince. It is one thing to acknowledge such a position would be difficult to maintain for Renarin, due to his difference, but it is another all together to not, at the very least, give him basic training, just in case. I wonder why so many people see Adolin as a spoiled child... We must have a different view of what a spoiled child is because I do not see it in Adolin. A spoiled child is one that believes he is entitled to everything and pulls a tantrum when the answer is "no". It is also one that never had to work for anything it owns. Whereas it is true the Kohlin boys have lived in luxury and sure never went wanting, Dalinar is a very strict father. Adolin does not have the leeway to go about as he wishes. He works all day long either trailing after Dalinar or managing the army; he has been prevented from pursuing not only his passion (dueling), but his Calling as well; he is not allowed to drink and party like all other young lighteyes which may sound futile, but it matters to Adolin; all he has been allowed to wear for 6 years was the Kohlin uniform which again may look stupid, but some people truly have the need to express themselves through their clothes... He may have complained about all of it, but he never pulled a tantrum. He voiced his opposition and then ranged himself behind his father's decision. What does he have that makes him so spoiled? Nice boots? Shiny buttons? Renarin's boots must be just as nice, but perhaps less flashy. It's OK. I thought it strange you would say that... We may not agree on everything, but everyone has to agree the Kohlin kids do like each other.
wolverinehokie Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 I do not understand why everyone says people have to be broken before getting a spren bond. Shallan was not broken when she first bonded. Her binding a spren is what made her mom turn against her which then made her kill her mom in self defense. All the broken stuff happened after she already formed the bond. Sure Dalinar and Kaladin were broken, but I don't think that means Renarin and Jasnah were also broken.
Elsecaller3414 she/her Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Well, if you think about it, think in a way of rocks and water. Water cannot get into rocks if there is not AT LEAST a crack. If the water freezes, then the rock can become more cracked, allowing for more water to get in, and freeze, and the process continues. Shallan probably had something in her past that we do not know about yet, which caused greater breaking later on.
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