Long Game 110: Termina Abandoned (A Majora's Mask Mafia Adventure)

[Amanuensis he/him]

They don't necessarily have to be killed, no. I imagine most people would interrogate them for an understanding of why they are helping Majora destroy the world, and for information that could help defeat him once and for all.

Edited March 18 by Amanuensis

[Haelbarde he/him]

2 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

I think you misunderstand what I’m saying, I don’t think you got scents loop 2, I think Stick did, and I think you got Keaton loop 3. You would’ve had the rupees by N1C. 

Right, I wasn't clear if you were saying I could have gotten Keaton or if I had gotten Scents earlier.

Again, per those rupee counts, I had at most 45 rupees at the start of L3N1, so not enough for Keaton even if someone else had purchased Don Gero loop 2 and Captain's Hat L3D1. So you're going to have to be real specific about which turns I should have earned more rupees to be able to justify where the 5 additional rupees came from.

And feel free to check with the dead but I was pretty sure there were some quick turnarounds from thread asking a question, the dead commenting on it, and then me posting their comments.

Trying to co-ordinate a different Elim pretending to be me in the dead doc and then giving me prewritten posts to copy and paste into thread within a matter of minutes seems quite a logistical challenge. I suppose it's not impossible, but it does also strain the limits of what is appropriate in terms of copying info from docs. 

[Stick. she/her]

so basically it’s got to be Hael along with Drake for the vote manip to make sense- they would’ve won L4 easily but doc’s alignment scan threw a wrench into their plans hence the concession 

 

I’m still working on that big post that explains the numbers and mech here in depth, need some more time tho 

[Mystic He/Him]

3 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

Right, I wasn't clear if you were saying I could have gotten Keaton or if I had gotten Scents earlier.

Again, per those rupee counts, I had at most 45 rupees at the start of L3N1, so not enough for Keaton even if someone else had purchased Don Gero loop 2 and Captain's Hat L3D1. So you're going to have to be real specific about which turns I should have earned more rupees to be able to justify where the 5 additional rupees came from.

And feel free to check with the dead but I was pretty sure there were some quick turnarounds from thread asking a question, the dead commenting on it, and then me posting their comments.

Trying to co-ordinate a different Elim pretending to be me in the dead doc and then giving me prewritten posts to copy and paste into thread within a matter of minutes seems quite a logistical challenge. I suppose it's not impossible, but it does also strain the limits of what is appropriate in terms of copying info from docs. 

The problem I see is that otherwise Doc has to have it, meaning he threw away a silver mask for scents. And the entire thing is weird. Currently my opinion is going for Twin for the final exe and avoiding the Hael/Doc thing

[coco.pudding she/they]

1 minute ago, Haelbarde said:

Right, I wasn't clear if you were saying I could have gotten Keaton or if I had gotten Scents earlier.

Again, per those rupee counts, I had at most 45 rupees at the start of L3N1, so not enough for Keaton even if someone else had purchased Don Gero loop 2 and Captain's Hat L3D1. So you're going to have to be real specific about which turns I should have earned more rupees to be able to justify where the 5 additional rupees came from.

And feel free to check with the dead but I was pretty sure there were some quick turnarounds from thread asking a question, the dead commenting on it, and then me posting their comments.

Trying to co-ordinate a different Elim pretending to be me in the dead doc and then giving me prewritten posts to copy and paste into thread within a matter of minutes seems quite a logistical challenge. I suppose it's not impossible, but it does also strain the limits of what is appropriate in terms of copying info from docs. 

I can confirm this is true (the dead doc stuff). I guess someone else pretending to be him is possible, just doesn’t seem probable. I do think Hael had the Captain’s Hat, the alternative seems incredibly convoluted.

[Haelbarde he/him]

3 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

The problem I see is that otherwise Doc has to have it, meaning he threw away a silver mask for scents. And the entire thing is weird. Currently my opinion is going for Twin for the final exe and avoiding the Hael/Doc thing

I thought you said numbers don't lie

[Divergent He/Him]

Stick

[Amanuensis he/him]

Players will be executed and flipped upon reaching 10 votes.

• (4/10) Stick: Mistfallen, coco, Drake, Divergent, 
• (3/10) Doc: Wahrheit, TJ, Hael, 
• (2/10) Hael: Doc, Stick, 
• (1/10) Mistfallen: Archer,

Edited March 18 by Amanuensis

[Divergent He/Him]

Is it not possible the elim Keaton user just did it to confuse people, since Archer voting Stick made it impossible for Keaton to change the outcome of the vote

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I'm in the Burnt/Stick/Doc/Twinstorm camp for the elims, and think Doc and Stick are our best options for the remaining two exes.

[Stick. she/her]

ong none of u are thinking about this mathematically - neither doc nor I could’ve afforded Keaton so these teams make no sense 

burnt could not have acted under the stone mask 

 

sooooo ya. I’m not too bothered cuz we win this either way but face the math pls and ty 

[Divergent He/Him]

1 minute ago, Stick. said:

ong none of u are thinking about this mathematically - neither doc nor I could’ve afforded Keaton so these teams make no sense 

burnt could not have acted under the stone mask 

 

sooooo ya. I’m not too bothered cuz we win this either way but face the math pls and ty 

Doc could have bought it though. He didn't really need to have Mask of Truths to fake a scan if he's elim

[Stick. she/her]

Right and why does he go for that over that resurrection one when we know he had the money 

[Haelbarde he/him]

4 minutes ago, Stick. said:

neither doc nor I could’ve afforded Keaton so these teams make no sense 

There was never much doubt over Doc's ability to buy purple masks, only whether he could actually have afforded a silver mask which while I didn't really follow the conversation on I didn't think was conclusive, being based somewhat on PMs that may or may not have been sent. While I think an elim with 100 rupees tries to get the GF mask, an elim with 98 bids on the multiple cheaper masks to fight for the more achievable ones and then buys a 50 rupee mask N1.

[Stick. she/her]

gimme a min I’m working on laying out the rupee logic 

[Mystic He/Him]

45 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

I thought you said numbers don't lie

They don’t when I can’t verify. I have no way of knowing whether some of your posts were or were not counted for rupees. Those posts change the mumbers.

 

Edited March 18 by Mistfallen Soldier

[Haelbarde he/him]

I went back and checked and it does seem it was reasonable for Doc to have earned sufficient rupees.

The problem is someone bought it, it wasn't Burnt. So who had the funds and was alive L3D3? 

If there aren't any other candidates, it kinda has to be Doc, and the reason for no GF mask was he had purchased something bigger in a previous loop.

[|TJ| he/him]

Keaton is not important at all lmao. It's just a fun little side-quest to figure out who had it :P. 

Ed1t: VC was 7-4 before any vote manip. Even if the vote shift was the other way around it would been 6-5 and Stick would have still died. There's nothing important here. 

[Divergent He/Him]

5 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Keaton is not important at all lmao. It's just a fun little side-quest to figure out who had it :P. 

Ed1t: VC was 7-4 before any vote manip. Even if the vote shift was the other way around it would been 6-5 and Stick would have still died. There's nothing important here. 

Pretty sure Aman earned enough rupees to buy Keaton 

[Archer he/him]

35 minutes ago, Divergent said:

Pretty sure Aman earned enough rupees to buy Keaton 

Yeah he's been splitting up his RP posts to bilk more each round 

Stick

[|TJ| he/him]

Stick Doc

[Amanuensis he/him]

Players will be executed and flipped upon reaching 10 votes.

• (7/10) Stick: Mistfallen, coco, Drake, Divergent, Araris, Archer, TJ, 
• (2/10) Doc: Wahrheit, Hael, 
• (2/10) Hael: Doc, Stick, 

[Haelbarde he/him]

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

Ed1t: VC was 7-4 before any vote manip. Even if the vote shift was the other way around it would been 6-5 and Stick would have still died. There's nothing important here. 

I don't entirely agree.

• Araris, TJ, Stick, Wonko, Drake, Divergent, Archer all died L2 for the first time, so started L3 with 20.
• Ash died L1 & L2 so started L3 with 50.
• TUM, Wahr died L1, starting L2 with 20 rupees. Rupee max would have allowed for 50 rupees L3.
• Coco, Hael, Doc, Burnt, Mist, Twin had not died by L3D1

TUM and Wahr are confirmed villagers so have no reason to lie. Ash is too, but also died before the Keaton Mask was used, so doubly cannot have it.

Coco and Twin died before L3D3, plus Coco being executed before being able to buy anything L3D1 and Twin not having posted enough to have had much more than 20 rupees, if that, so neither could have purchased the Keaton mask.

Burnt provably had the Stone Mask, so unless we're saying Burnt had 100 rupees and purchased the Keaton mask L3N1 she didn't have it. Plus, wearing the Stone Mask would have made her unable to equip and use the Keaton mask.

That leaves Doc, Hael, and Mist.

Hael (me) was the least active of the three. My claimed rupee counts don't allow for me to have afforded it, but let's investigate the possibility that I am lying about my rupee income.

• If I made max rupees L1, I'd be at 40 going into L2.
• During L2, I did not post during N2, D3, N3, and I only posted once during D2. Even without checking my posts from D1/N1, My max potential earnings from L2 is 11 rupees, taking me to 51 rupees at the start of L3.
• Rupee max L3D1 could have gotten me to 61.

60 rupees does not win me Captain's + Keaton.

So for me to have the Keaton Mask, a living elim on D3 who is not Burnt has to have the Captain's hat and be doing some insane coordination with me. The elim pools from the result of L2 were <Drake/Stick>, <Hael, Doc, Burnt, Coco, Twin, Mist>. Burnt had stone, Drake, Coco, Twin were dead. The only other living elim candidates beyond Burnt and I were Stick and Doc.

If Doc's an elim paired with me, then the whole matter is kinda moot, and Doc is a safe vote. Or if this is a question of whether Doc had a silver mask, this world requires Doc to have the Captain's hat and so not the MoT/GFM.

The only other option is a Stick / Hael combo where Stick has the Captain's mask.

Which she verifiably did not. I was still active in the dead doc during N3 after her death, and if that fact has not already been verified, I am sure that Ash, Drake, and Coco can all confirm that for you.

So either I had the Captain's mask, or we are in a Doc / Hael world where Doc did not buy a silver mask. In that world, just execute Doc, and work out which of Stick or Drake is the elim.

So then, if I cannot have had the Keaton mask, we are left with Doc and Mist as the only candidates for Keaton's, so consequently either:

• Doc purchased the Keaton mask.
  • This means he cannot have purchased the GFM or the MoT
  • This means he must be lying about scanning me evil.
  • This means the elim plans for L3 were not based on the expectation of having a resurrection.
• Mist purchased the Keaton mask.
  • Given they are still claiming the Gibdo Mask this turn, suggests Mist is an elim.
    • This is the only world in which Doc possibly achieves a silver mask.
      • v!Doc gets MoT and scans me as an elim.
        • Agreed that this is the one world in which a Hael vote makes more sense than a Doc vote. But in this world Mist / Hael is e/e, so why does e!Mist insist on killing e!Hael over v!Doc? This strongly suggests we are not in this world.
      • e!Doc probably gets GFM
        • I don't see how Doc / Mist pairing doesn't get a NK off and win L3.

To summarise:

• The only world in which Hael does not have Captain's Hat is a Doc / Hael e/e world.
• Mist getting Keaton implies e!Mist and allows for v!Doc, but e!Mist would want v!Doc dead over Hael, so e!Mist implies e!Doc
• Otherwise, Doc is elim as he bought Keaton instead of a silver mask, and elims did not base L3 strategy around the GFM

So I guess, @Mistfallen Soldier, how about those numbers? As far as I can tell, any world where I am evil require Doc also to be evil, or you to be evil, and your only reasonable vote is on Doc. 

Edit 1: (Added the line about Wahr, TUM, and Ash being confirmed villagers after the initial set of dot points)

Edit 2:

I guess we may as resolve the Stick thing first at this point, and get back to Doc after.

Edited March 19 by Haelbarde
Forgot to state the obvious about confirmed villagers.

[Mystic He/Him]

10 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

I don't entirely agree.

• Araris, TJ, Stick, Wonko, Drake, Divergent, Archer all died L2 for the first time, so started L3 with 20.
• Ash died L1 & L2 so started L3 with 50.
• TUM, Wahr died L1, starting L2 with 20 rupees. Rupee max would have allowed for 50 rupees L3.
• Coco, Hael, Doc, Burnt, Mist, Twin had not died by L3D1

TUM and Wahr are confirmed villagers so have no reason to lie. Ash is too, but also died before the Keaton Mask was used, so doubly cannot have it.

Coco and Twin died before L3D3, plus Coco being executed before being able to buy anything L3D1 and Twin not having posted enough to have had much more than 20 rupees, if that, so neither could have purchased the Keaton mask.

Burnt provably had the Stone Mask, so unless we're saying Burnt had 100 rupees and purchased the Keaton mask L3N1 she didn't have it. Plus, wearing the Stone Mask would have made her unable to equip and use the Keaton mask.

That leaves Doc, Hael, and Mist.

Hael (me) was the least active of the three. My claimed rupee counts don't allow for me to have afforded it, but let's investigate the possibility that I am lying about my rupee income.

• If I made max rupees L1, I'd be at 40 going into L2.
• During L2, I did not post during N2, D3, N3, and I only posted once during D2. Even without checking my posts from D1/N1, My max potential earnings from L2 is 11 rupees, taking me to 51 rupees at the start of L3.
• Rupee max L3D1 could have gotten me to 61.

60 rupees does not win me Captain's + Keaton.

So for me to have the Keaton Mask, a living elim on D3 who is not Burnt has to have the Captain's hat and be doing some insane coordination with me. The elim pools from the result of L2 were <Drake/Stick>, <Hael, Doc, Burnt, Coco, Twin, Mist>. Burnt had stone, Drake, Coco, Twin were dead. The only other living elim candidates beyond Burnt and I were Stick and Doc.

If Doc's an elim paired with me, then the whole matter is kinda moot, and Doc is a safe vote. Or if this is a question of whether Doc had a silver mask, this world requires Doc to have the Captain's hat and so not the MoT/GFM.

The only other option is a Stick / Hael combo where Stick has the Captain's mask.

Which she verifiably did not. I was still active in the dead doc during N3 after her death, and if that fact has not already been verified, I am sure that Ash, Drake, and Coco can all confirm that for you.

So either I had the Captain's mask, or we are in a Doc / Hael world where Doc did not buy a silver mask. In that world, just execute Doc, and work out which of Stick or Drake is the elim.

So then, if I cannot have had the Keaton mask, we are left with Doc and Mist as the only candidates for Keaton's, so consequently either:

• Doc purchased the Keaton mask.
  • This means he cannot have purchased the GFM or the MoT
  • This means he must be lying about scanning me evil.
  • This means the elim plans for L3 were not based on the expectation of having a resurrection.
• Mist purchased the Keaton mask.
  • Given they are still claiming the Gibdo Mask this turn, suggests Mist is an elim.
    • This is the only world in which Doc possibly achieves a silver mask.
      • v!Doc gets MoT and scans me as an elim.
        • Agreed that this is the one world in which a Hael vote makes more sense than a Doc vote. But in this world Mist / Hael is e/e, so why does e!Mist insist on killing e!Hael over v!Doc? This strongly suggests we are not in this world.
      • e!Doc probably gets GFM
        • I don't see how Doc / Mist pairing doesn't get a NK off and win L3.

To summarise:

• The only world in which Hael does not have Captain's Hat is a Doc / Hael e/e world.
• Mist getting Keaton implies e!Mist and allows for v!Doc, but e!Mist would want v!Doc dead over Hael, so e!Mist implies e!Doc
• Otherwise, Doc is elim as he bought Keaton instead of a silver mask, and elims did not base L3 strategy around the GFM

So I guess, @Mistfallen Soldier, how about those numbers? As far as I can tell, any world where I am evil require Doc also to be evil, or you to be evil, and your only reasonable vote is on Doc. 

Edit 1: (Added the line about Wahr, TUM, and Ash being confirmed villagers after the initial set of dot points)

Edit 2:

I guess we may as resolve the Stick thing first at this point, and get back to Doc after.

Again. Your numbers claim that some of your posts did not count towards your rupee count. I can’t verify that, meaning I can’t discount you from being able to afford Keaton

[Haelbarde he/him]

8 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

Again. Your numbers claim that some of your posts did not count towards your rupee count. I can’t verify that, meaning I can’t discount you from being able to afford Keaton

If you read my post, you don't have to verify whether my posts counted for rupees or not. If I did not post at all during L2N2, L2D3, L2N3, I cannot have achieved enough rupees for Keaton and Captains even if I got the rupee max every turn I did post. 

Which is why I then explored how how e!Hael with the Keaton mask instead of the Captain's Hat works:

Quote

So for me to have the Keaton Mask, a living elim on D3 who is not Burnt has to have the Captain's hat and be doing some insane coordination with me. The elim pools from the result of L2 were <Drake/Stick>, <Hael, Doc, Burnt, Coco, Twin, Mist>. Burnt had stone, Drake, Coco, Twin were dead. The only other living elim candidates beyond Burnt and I were Stick and Doc.

Do you disagree that the only elim candidates living during L3D3 who could have collaborated with me by them having the Captain's Mask are Doc and Stick?

Do you disagree that Stick could not have had the Captain's Mask as I was still able to communicate with the dead during L3N3?

Do you disagree that if I had the Keaton Mask then I could only do so if Doc was the other eliminator with the Captain's Mask?

Edited March 19 by Haelbarde