Who's his wife?

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

It could also be a brand new character we haven’t met yet

[Ethanice]

Could Wan ShaiLu be his wife?  She has memory effecting abilities, is an invested being and has a history with Hoid.  

[bmcclure7]

18 minutes ago, Ethanice said:

Could Wan ShaiLu be his wife?  She has memory effecting abilities, is an invested being and has a history with Hoid.  

I think you might actually be right

[+Oltux72 he/him]

17 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't agree as this simply doesn't fit the context, nor does it make any sense. Starling asks if Hoid's wife could help him, Hoid then talks about his wife and asks Starling to tell "either of the twins" of his situation, so they could help him. There is no change in subject in this paragraph, he is still talking about his wife, there never was any mention about potential children of Hoid so we can’t say if Hoid even had any with his wife. IotE ch 51:

Starling was his apprentice. She would know if Hoid has twin children.

[Yvainnie she/her]

5 hours ago, Jult said:

This was how I interpreted it as well. Basically, Hoid saying "My wife can't help... But the twins can".

Children didn't even cross my mind. I instead started racking my brain for any twins that we know of. I only came up with 2 pairs:

• Shallan's brothers, Jushu and Wikim
• Lunamor's eldest childeren, Cord and Gift

Neither pair is particularly interesting to me. Can anyone think of others I may have missed?

I agree, him saying "the twins", didn't seem like mentioning his own children. I don't know, seems a bit cold and offhanded  comment for me.

[Yvainnie she/her]

Actually his wife being Valor's vessel would make a great deal of sense:

1. She is invested which as a lot of you mentioned would probably make most sense for Hoid since, some ordinary mortal would probably be too limited lifespan for him to deal with.

On the other hand he did date Jasnah, so may be this is not that big a deal for him.

2. It would tie nicely whole Frost being his friend, if Frost is Valor's brother. They would basically be one big family.

On the other hand Starling would also call him uncle right? If that would be the case....

 

3. Lastly I can imagine that holding a Shard would make her forget he was her husband. We saw what that does to a Vessel. Granted Sazed kept much of his memory, but those who have Shards from the beginning seem more affected. So memory loss would not be a strech.

[+Truthwatcher_412 he/him]

What if Starling's his wife and she doesn't remember because of the manacles which were put there because the other dragons were PO'd she'd marry a non-dragon? I know it probably doesn't make sense but just a guess.

Edited July 22, 2025 by Truthwatcher_412

[BinarySecond]

6 minutes ago, Truthwatcher_412 said:

What if Starling's his wife and she doesn't remember because of the manacles which were put there because the other dragons were PO'd she'd marry a non-dragon? I know it probably doesn't make sense but just a guess.

I hate that I don't hate this theory.

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

59 minutes ago, Truthwatcher_412 said:

What if Starling's his wife and she doesn't remember because of the manacles which were put there because the other dragons were PO'd she'd marry a non-dragon? I know it probably doesn't make sense but just a guess.

I would be bothered by this theory just because of timeline. Starling is like developmentally the equivalent of 17 years old in dragon culture, it would creep me out if he has married her, maybe had kids already at this stage. And he's a mentor figure to her - feels like grooming.

But, didn't get any vibes like that between them anyway. More like a cool big brother figure

Edited July 22, 2025 by Dreamwa1ker

[RedBlue]

‘The twins’ could be completely unrelated to everyone else here. The only thing implied by the book is that they are associates of Hoid who he thinks would help him. Anything beyond that is pure speculation on our parts.

As for the wife, I think the fact that Starling’s first thought is to ask the wife for help is telling. It implies that Hoid’s wife has been active and at least somewhat helpful during the time Starling has been around. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Starling to think of the wife when Hoid is in trouble.

That would mean that the amnesia is a relatively new development — within the last few decades — and she and Hoid were together prior to that point.

And since Hoid is operating alone during Mistborn and dating Jasnah during Stormlight, I’m inclined to think that him having a wife is also a relatively new development.

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

5 hours ago, RedBlue said:

‘The twins’ could be completely unrelated to everyone else here. The only thing implied by the book is that they are associates of Hoid who he thinks would help him. Anything beyond that is pure speculation on our parts.

As for the wife, I think the fact that Starling’s first thought is to ask the wife for help is telling. It implies that Hoid’s wife has been active and at least somewhat helpful during the time Starling has been around. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Starling to think of the wife when Hoid is in trouble.

That would mean that the amnesia is a relatively new development — within the last few decades — and she and Hoid were together prior to that point.

And since Hoid is operating alone during Mistborn and dating Jasnah during Stormlight, I’m inclined to think that him having a wife is also a relatively new development.

I’m inclined to believe that his wife is someone from Mistborn Era 3/4, given that Mistborn Era 5 is from Wit’s perspective.

Quote

I say era five, but I’m not sure if the cyberpunk era was ever confirmed…

 

[lacrossedeamon]

On 7/22/2025 at 6:12 AM, Ethanice said:

Could Wan ShaiLu be his wife?  She has memory effecting abilities, is an invested being and has a history with Hoid.  

I've actually liked this pairing since Emperor's Soul, much better than Wit/Jasnah.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 7/22/2025 at 4:15 AM, Jult said:

This was how I interpreted it as well. Basically, Hoid saying "My wife can't help... But the twins can".

Children didn't even cross my mind. I instead started racking my brain for any twins that we know of. I only came up with 2 pairs:

I guess that depends on the extent you associate marriage with procreation.

[bmcclure7]

On 7/22/2025 at 10:15 AM, Dreamwa1ker said:

I would be bothered by this theory just because of timeline. Starling is like developmentally the equivalent of 17 years old in dragon culture, it would creep me out if he has married her, maybe had kids already at this stage. And he's a mentor figure to her - feels like grooming.

But, didn't get any vibes like that between them anyway. More like a cool big brother figure

That book made a point that age is complicated for creatures like dragons and I believe she is 20 not 17 

[+Truthwatcher_412 he/him]

On 7/22/2025 at 11:15 AM, Dreamwa1ker said:

I would be bothered by this theory just because of timeline. Starling is like developmentally the equivalent of 17 years old in dragon culture, it would creep me out if he has married her, maybe had kids already at this stage. And he's a mentor figure to her - feels like grooming.

But, didn't get any vibes like that between them anyway. More like a cool big brother figure

Yeah that makes sense, like I said, it was a random thought I had but don't think that it holds any water.

[MyDood]

On 7/21/2025 at 10:15 PM, Jult said:

This was how I interpreted it as well. Basically, Hoid saying "My wife can't help... But the twins can".

Children didn't even cross my mind. I instead started racking my brain for any twins that we know of. I only came up with 2 pairs:

• Shallan's brothers, Jushu and Wikim
• Lunamor's eldest childeren, Cord and Gift

Neither pair is particularly interesting to me. Can anyone think of others I may have missed?

Kaiin’s kids that

Spoiler

end up being Ghostbloods

Kelsa and Kaice? are referred to as The Twins all the time.

[Jult]

7 hours ago, MyDood said:

Kaiin’s kids that

  Hide contents

end up being Ghostbloods

Kelsa and Kaice? are referred to as The Twins all the time.

I think you mean Kaise and Daorn? Yeah, they make good candidates. Can't believe I forgot about them. Good catch!

[MyDood]

1 hour ago, Jult said:

8 hours ago, MyDood said:

 

I think you mean Kaise and Daorn? Yeah, they make good candidates. Can't believe I forgot about them. Good catch!

Yes them, oops. I’ve been reading the Cradle series and Wei Shi Kelsa was on the brain apparently. Anyway…I guess they’re still alive this much later which is cool. 

 

Edited July 26, 2025 by MyDood

[Wit Beyond Measure]

On 7/21/2025 at 7:37 AM, Oltux72 said:

I would understand the twins to refer to the offspring of Hoid and his amnesiac wife.

That's the intended implication, in my opinion, but the phrasing lends itself to various interpretations - also deliberate. And so whether the twins belong to Wit is not certain.

Because the wife is not even on speaking terms with Wit, she almost surely would not be one of the twins Wit believes to be willing to come to his rescue. 

I love the Shae and Kaise and Daorn theories! I'm not at all sure they're correct, but they seem the most plausible so far.

[Onironte he/him]

I think the more likely option about the wife's identity is Valor, yet it doesn't make sense that a Shard whose intent is Valor would blank her own memory just to "avoid the memories of an unsatisfactory relationship". My two cents are on Valor being the wife, her memory erased by a valorous act of some sort.

Even though Aether of Night is non-canon, we have already seen a lot of ideas from the novel in the Cosmere:

Spoiler

• Forgotten (dead army that comes again when killed) → Fused

• Aethers → Aethers

• Fake emperor Raeth → Fake emperor on The Emperor's Soul

• Armor and blade that comes out of nowhere, almost indestructible → Shardblades and Shardplates

• Decay → Ruin

• Former → Preservation

• Send → Oathgates/Transportation Surge

• Corpates → Fabrial

• Agaris & Makkal exploding when coming in contact with each other → Investiture + anti-Investiture

• Agaris & Makkal on a magic competition to take over the world → Odium & Honor magic competition to take over the world

• The Shentis (a race that isn't born but made) → Koloss

• The Duty → Alezi's sense of honor, the call and the codes on Vorin religion

• Aether of Night is cannibalized for Midnight Essence

Yes, I am aware that most of those relations are weak, but that doesn't deny the duplicity of the ideas.

So, why all of this? On the twins, Agaris & Makkal are referred to as the Fell Twins, and they seem to look something like Splinters. That seems the kind of help Hoid could use: Invested enough as to be useful, not so Invested as to draw unwanted attention. Even so, I don't really know how the Fell Twins could fit in the Cosmere. Maybe Harmony gave two small chunks of Ruin's power in order to compensate for the part of Preservation that gave Scadrial's awareness? Maybe Autonomy decided to create two avatars and make them prove themselves worthy of the world they share? They seem to be opposites, so maybe something weird happened with Ambition's splintering and two chunks of power came to the twins, but one with anti-Investiture? The twins seem very ambitious to me... Could they be somehow related to Dominion? Last maybe: Maybe the death of a Shard (Ambition or Dominion seem the more likely options) created a weird effect on the Spiritual Realm, like a storm, whose Investiture was partially absorbed by an already existing person, Invested pre-Shattering or some Autonomy's avatar. That storm could have created an Evil twist of the entity, resulting in two powerful reflections of the same person, twins, one being made up of positive Investiture while the other made of anti-Investiture. Something like what happened to Kellanved in Deadhouse Landing. For if someone has read it. Unlikely. Both the chances of someone having read it and the theory. It seems too forced, the storm-created-anti-twin theory.

What do you think?

Edited August 3, 2025 by Onironte

[LockDown Ammo he/him]

I like the idea of it being Valor's vessel. I also think this would be a recent development as I don't think he would have started a relationship with Jasnah otherwise.
Endowment in her letter said this in WaT:

Quote

"As for Valor, our dealings are none of your business—for largely the same reasons. Can you not leave her alone?" - Chapter 62 Epigraph
"You need not always have the last word, though I know you collect them like badges of honor. I will not tell you where she is." - Chapter 63 Epigraph
"All I will say is that I have kept my bargain, and I did not go in person at her request for aid." - Chapter 64 Epigraph
"These days, it seems she and I are the only ones capable of maintaining any manner of isolation. I can tell you, with absolute certainty, she does not want to see you again. It has not been too long. No, I do not think it ever will be." - Chapter 65 Epigraph

While in RoW, Harmony said this:

Quote

"Whimsy was not terribly useful, and Mercy worries me. I do think that Valor is reasonable, and suggest you approach her again. It has been too long, in her estimation, since your last conversation." - Chapter 35 Epigraph

I am willing to trust Sazed in this matter, as he does not have any personal and old rivalry with Hoid and has recently talked to her. While Endowment is saying what she thinks Valor wants and is mostly protective of her like a friend.
So Valor is willing to start talking again and in the Epilogue of WaT, Hoid decides that it is time to find Valor in order to assist the people of Roshar to ressist Retribution.
Assuming he manages to do that they will be working closesly for quite some time and will have time to reconnect and potentially start dating again.

It also makes sense from a story telling point of view as she would be someone close to his age and also functionally immortal like him with vast amount of Investiture.

Don't know how she would forget them getting married. Maybe because she sacrificed huge chunks of Investiture while fighting Retribution to win several of which were used to store her memories. So she loses recent memories, remembers only old ones so back to hating him again. They are also not on speaking terms due to other reasons as Hoid says its only partially because she doesn't remember being his wife. Starling would have also known that his wife does not remember them being married, yet her asking about her as a viable option implies that his wife did help him even after that several times. Meaning, them not being on speaking terms is also a very very new development from Starling's point of view.

"The Twins" could be their kids, I find it highly likely and unlikely at the same time. It's confusing. But I don't think the twins mean his wife and her sister. Doesn't make sense as his wife helping him is not currently a viable option. Starling needs to be familiar with them to instantly understand who Hoid is talking about, so it being the kids make sense.
It could also be his apprentices, that 2 of them are twins as Brandon did RAFO someone asking if some of them are related saying it would be too much info in this WOB. Though it is open to several different interpretations.

It could also be that by "twins" he means Frost and his sister (we don't necessarily know if they are twins or not but they could be, is the age gap mentioned somewhere? or was one called younger anywhere?), as that was the original idea of him coming and asking for help. As seen in WaT, it would not be out of line for him to go to his sister when Frost refuses to help so it makes sense for him to ask for her too. Though that would put the theories of Starling being the daughter of that sister to rest as Starling's parents are dead.

The "twins" referring to Frost and his sister makes most sense to me and sounds highly likely.

Edited August 8, 2025 by LockDown Ammo
Typo

[Hoids Imaginary Friend]

When I first read this i thought of Shallan, with the twins being Adolins

And the more I thought about it..

Regarding the memory wipe, I'm sure Hoid could do it in a several ways, heck he's an Elantrian at this point.

But it wouldn't surprise me if Shallan could be capable of a kind of self forgery, at least in a "cognitive" manner. 

[LockDown Ammo he/him]

13 hours ago, Hoids Imaginary Friend said:

When I first read this i thought of Shallan, with the twins being Adolins

And the more I thought about it..

Regarding the memory wipe, I'm sure Hoid could do it in a several ways, heck he's an Elantrian at this point.

But it wouldn't surprise me if Shallan could be capable of a kind of self forgery, at least in a "cognitive" manner. 

I hate this idea... I really don't see this happening. For this to work, first we probably need to kill Adolin which is bad and make Shallan immortal, then have Wit and shallan romance which also doesn't sound good as Wit was more of a mentor figure for Shallan. Oh also need to make the twins immortal.

I still think wife will be: Current Vessel of Valor
"the twins": Frost and his sister

[Moirne she/her]

I think if the twins were Frost and his sister, Hoid would have just said “your uncle and aunt” (or “mother”) to Starling. That rules out Frost for me.

[Elegy he/him]

Can we please just rule out anyone who Hoid has known since they were minors? Brandon is not going to do that.

I also believe that Shai is a good candidate. She is a character with 1) abilities that very well enable memory loss, which can 2) specifically lead to situations where the memory loss is a side-effect of a necessary action (like getting an ability that she can only make believable when she forgets her past, which we've seen her do in TLM), also the fact that 3) she has a history with Hoid, 4) despite having sided with Kelsier, her transformation in TLM lets her become a tabula rasa that can then learn new things that could make her eventually side with Hoid rather than Kelsier. (Edit: We also know from the TSM postscript that early planning stages of that story had her as the protagonist, so at least in that iteration, not only was she still around in the space age, but she also had some motivation to hop around planets and figure out their magic systems - which her relationship with Hoid could explain. Of course, maybe Brandon's plans for her have changed since then, but we could still see it as a possible hint.)

Of course it could also be a character that we don't know, which would be kinda cruel of Brandon to just randomly put this there when we don't even know of her existence yet, but it obviously wouldn't be beyond him. If it is a character we've seen, Shai is far and away the most likely choice in my opinion. But whether that's the case is a shaky assumption.

Edited August 12, 2025 by Elegy