Jult

There's a good amount of wiggle room to work with based just on the timeline of Stonewalkers. It seems to end after Oathbringer, but before Dawnshard and RoW. That's close to a year of in-world time to work with. Some notable things that happened offscreen between OB and RoW: I do like the idea of getting a follow-up quest from Shinovar. Technically, Stonewalkers should end when.. The end of the adventure gives several suggestions for where to go after the adventure is completed in the "Continuing Your Campaign" section: IMO, these would all also be decent directions to theorize in because we can be sure someone at Brotherwise thought about them at least a little while writing the list. I'm a big fan personally of the final option they give. Mostly because I think it would come with the most interesting lore reveals.

Couple things to add to the previous answers: Nale is Crazy. Applying logic to him won't work out very well. In WaT he admits he doesn't personally want the Singers to win. They just have the "law" on their side. The Skybreakers may be inspired by the idea of Honor. But, in practice, Nale witnessed Tanner mess up over and over again. I don't think the Order has much loyalty left to Honor.

He is one of the 3 Mindless Unmade. Though sometimes I wonder how mindless they are. There seems to be some level of decision making on Nergaoul and Moelach's part. Like an animal-level intelligence. Ashertmarn even kind of spoke in Shallan's mind when she touched it.

How are we defining "major" characters? Are we talking just POV characters? Or characters we watched die 'onscreen'? Do flashback deaths not count? Where do we draw the line? And how is Teft above it? Like why didn't Sadeas, Jezrien, Zane, Dockson, Clubs, Tindwyl, Teleb, Eshonai, Amaram, Graves, Tien, Leyton, Raboniel, Lezian, Ati, Leras, Rayse, Tanner, Denth, Praxton (and all the Sand Masters), Neturo (and all of the Honorbearers), Blushweaver, Heleran, Lin, Tyn, Mraize, Iyatil, etc. make the list? I'd argue most of these people matter more than Teft.

WoK: I'd largely leave this one alone. But one thing I don't like about the first 5 books as a whole is just how little we know about the Unmade. And I like Frustration's point about giving Shallan more to do. So, to kill two birds with one stone: maybe dedicate some time to having Shallan study the Unmade a bit more on Jasnah's orders. She was right on top of Moelach at the time. And her interactions with Re-Shephir, Ashertmarn, and Sja-anat later could have been more interesting if she had just a slightly better idea of who she was dealing with. I'd also put in some more relevant death rattles. They were fun, but didn't directly impact the plot often. Maybe one that doesn't make sense at the time but implies Jasnah returns after her "death"? Yeah, actually combine that with the idea above - Shallan studies the Unmade a bit, reasons that Moelach is nearby, and when Jasnah slaughters those dudes in the alley one of them can cryptically foreshadow Jasnah's "death" and return. WoR: Yeah, they should have crammed the story from Elsecaller in here. Or at least part of it. I do think it was good to have Shallan and Navani think Jasnah was dead. It drove Shallan to action and drove Navani to... well inaction, but that helped motivate Shallan too. Still, there was no reason to fake out the readers. Following up on the death rattle idea above, I think Shallan should take a long while to realize what the rattle means so most of WoR happens as normal. But I like the idea of her figuring it out and being unsurprised when Jasnah finally returns in OB. She could hit Jasnah with a snarky "what took you so long" which I think would earn her a little more respect from Jasnah. OB: Elhokar should have gotten a CR scene after he died. Or at least maybe Design could have indicated that Elhokar passed through when Hoid came to her rescue in the Epilogue. Something to make it clearer that he was truly gone. I think Jasnah should have talked about Renarin to literally anyone else. But I don't mind that she didn't talk to Renarin. She was paranoid and didn't want to tip her hand. And, again, more love to the Unmade. Brandon's probably just saving a lot about them for the back half. But Ashertmarn in particular felt more like a prop than a character. And it feels like most of the characters just forget about the Unmade as soon as they're offscreen. After Dalinar captures Nergaoul, I'm surprised he doesn't form some special task force specifically for hunting down the others and doing the same to them. RoW: Venli, Venli, Venli... She's my least favorite character in the series. I know she's critically important to the story.. But I just really struggle to find her interesting. I don't even know how to fix it. But it needs fixing. As Frustration said, more action from her would have helped. I don't see a world where she immediately trusts the humans. But maybe she could have formed a relationship with the Sibling and indirectly helped the humans for his sake. Her saving Lift was cool. So, more of that might have made me care more about her. WaT: I like WaT much more than the average Sharder based on what I've seen in other topics. But it does need some help. Kaladin gets exactly where he needs to be by the end of the book but is criminally underused through the whole trip there. What happened to "journey before destination"? Send Moash or some Lezian-type Fused after Kaladin. Have them ambush him while Szeth is busy with his trials. I don't know. Just give him something to do. He's the main character. Contrary to popular opinion, I think Rlain needs more screentime. He holds my interest much better than Venli does as a representative of the Listeners. I think it's unfortunate that this book takes place immediately after RoW. I would have liked to see him interact with the other surviving Listeners; maybe even have a couple join him as soon-to-be squires. He and Renarin are supposed to bridge the humans and the Singers, but Rlain is such an island amongst his people that he feels like a pretty crappy bridge right now. The ending... I don't really have a problem with Odium's champion being Gavinor (he'd be like my 5th pick for it, but whatever). It doesn't really matter who the champions were because the ending was probably always going to be Dalinar choosing not to fight. At the end of the day, this just wound up being a convenient way to age Gav up. And I love the Sunmaker's Gambit. I saw it coming as soon as Adolin explained the tactic to Yanagawn. I actually like the ending for almost everyone. The exception being Shallan. I don't really think Shallan shines in solo situations, so I'm not thrilled that she's been separated from everyone...Again. I'm also not a fan of the pregnancy.

Cosmere RPG Stonewalkers Spoiler: That aside. There's not a long list of potential Heralds she could be: Chanarach - not a chance. She's on Braize when we first meet Liss Vedel - Maybe. Their physical descriptions aren't very similar, but there's plenty of ways to disguise herself. And we just simply don't know where Vedel's been all this time. Pralla - I'd say no. She's probably the most similar to her in physical appearance. And they both like to wear Emeralds. But I'd say they're not the same person. Mostly because (Bigger Stonewalker Spoilers) Shalash - Maybe. Ash isn't as insane as the other Heralds. We know both Liss and Shalash were in Jah Keved prior to going to the Kholin Warcamp - both in search of Taln. This had to be around the same time, but I haven't tried narrowing down their timelines and comparing. However, Liss is described as "plump" and Ash is described as "tall and lean". And their personalities seem very different to me. But Ash is the Lightweaver Herald, so... appearances may be deceiving. I'd still lean towards no. Battar - Probably not. Their physical appearances are very different. And Battar was active enough as Dova that I just don't see her needing another secret identity. TLDR - I don't think Liss is a Herald, but if she is then Vedel is the most likely candidate in my mind.

I agree with most of what's been said. But I would think that Stormfather would send the visions to someone else if Dalinar dies. And Syl would probably bond someone. Just not Kaladin. I'm very curious to see who people think Stormfather and Syl's second choices would be.

That's the point of that paragraph. It's saying "we didn't copy and paste these to 500 stat blocks, but assume adversaries can do the following". You won't see any of those abilities on any stat block by design. Because they're universal. I don't know what you're trying to demonstrate with this. I said it's just as easy to execute as the others, just probably trickier to learn. Maybe because fire is a bit unique in physical makeup? Or because most Cognitive aspects don't want to be fire? Either way I'd hope she mastered it by then. I believe she's already spoken the 4th Ideal at that point. Yeah, it might be that he's Invested. Good point. It was not multiple enemies though. Just one dude. She even politely cleaned up the pitch after (lol). I think there's another scene in RoW where she might do what you're describing. But I was referencing this one: Agreed. But even the book says living things can be more difficult than stone depending on their mental state. I guess all I'm saying is that calling the RPG rules "outright untrue" is a bit harsh seeing as we don't have particularly detailed descriptions of how these things work in the books. We've got like 2 sentences from Khriss - who is also not infallible.

I'd interpret this quote more as Brotherwise saying they had to assign numbers to things for the sake of the game - not that they're straight-up inventing abilities that Fused shouldn't canonically have. e.g. In the game, Heavenly Ones have Lashings. And they're limited to 30 feet of movement. I'd assume it's canon that they have Lashings; the non-canon bit is the 30-foot limit. Also, since Breathing Voidlight has come up a bunch: Soulcasting fire in the game isn't any harder than the other essences in terms of DC tests or Investiture cost. You just gain access to the Talent for Soulcasting Fire later than the other essences. I'd call that harder to learn, but not harder to execute once you know how to do it. Not sure we've seen enough Soulcasting in the books to know if this is the case.. But Shallan turned an entire ship into water and then shortly after failed to make a small stick into fire. So, I don't think it's unreasonable to say there could be some trick to flamecasting. There's also a scene in OB where Jasnah Soulcasts pitch all over a Fused and then lights it. Which is cool, but also weird since she could Soulcast him into fire without the middle step (which she has done before to the muggers in WoK). I feel like this could also imply a trickiness to flamecasting. The Soulcasting stone thing is sometimes true based on RoW Ars Arcanum (which you directed me to last time this came up): But Brandon hasn't exactly been consistent on this:

Yeah. I hesitated on bringing him up since this is the Stormlight board. But since he's already been mentioned... (Big Mistborn Era 1 Spoilers):

We aren't shown the agreement that Kor drew up in its entirety, but I don't think it only limited how power could be granted. It was described as restricting all interactions with the mortals. The whole point of the agreement was to limit the damage they did to Roshar. I'd be surprised if it didn't include some rules about just directly smiting Rosharans. There are also some lines here and there that might imply the original agreement between the participants in the Shattering involved some stipulations around attacking mortals. Also, even if it wasn't part of the agreement, abusing your power is probably a good way to get all of the other Vessels mad at you.

I do and I can! I will say the bit I highlighted sounds as if there's more to it than the contract alone. But Frustration is right. It's largely the contract protecting Hoid.

That's what I thought when I first read it, but when I did a second look it never said one way or the other. I personally still think she left, but she could still be on Roshar. Yeah it's not completely clear what her plan is, but it could involve leaving Roshar. Even if it does though, she decided to implement it on Day Nine of WaT. So, she didn't have much time to get offworld. Not saying she couldn't. But it would have been tight. Giving some more thought to the Heralds breaking. I do not trust that they all have good intentions (looking at you, Battar). Could one of the Heralds "break" on purpose as a form of sabotage?

As soon as you said "everyone" was locked in their current situation, my brain went "except BAM". I agree with you that she is most likely to make the first big move. My guess is Honor will push back on any attempts by Taravangian to harm BAM. It really didn't like it when Tanavast betrayed her. There are some other smaller parties to consider as well: -Axindweth is presumably in custody. She likely has allies who might come for her. -The Nightwatcher is around somewhere and I suspect Cultivation left some instructions for her. -The spren societies (like the Honorspren at Lasting Integrity or the Cultivationspren in the Ring) may have something to say about all the recent activity. The creation of Retribution, the new Oathpact, the departure of Cultivation, and the curious case of the Unoathed (especially Notum) all seem like they'll really shake up spren society. -Rysn is floating around with a Dawnshard right within Retribution's reach. She went into hiding with the Sleepless but I doubt we've seen the last of her.

When the Cosmere RPG first released, I did a bit of a dive into abilities that seem Order-specific. They (mostly) aren't outright stated to be Resonance abilities. But they were still interesting to dissect. Checking it out could help with your theorizing:

I'd bet on yes. Navani was able to split the illumination given off by Towerlight into the colors that corresponded to Stormlight and Lifelight. She herself admitted that this was different from actually splitting the Lights: But I think her experiments at least imply that un-mixing them is possible. She compared the behavior to two emulsified liquids. Like forcing oil and water to mix. Most emulsions can be separated in some way.

As a big part of that uptick, I thank you. I strongly agree. I often see people associating Renarin's visions with the fact that Glys is Enlightened. And, while that probably has some impact on it, I do think Fortune has always been part of the Truthwatcher toolkit to some degree. Brandon has mentioned that Truthwatchers are more closely linked to the Spiritual Realm than the other Orders (except Bondsmiths). Which I think supports this idea as well. While we are on the subjects of the Double Eye and Truest Surges... Something else that bothers me about the Double Eye is there's some asymmetry to Honor's truest surge and Cultivation's truest surge both being on the right side. Might just be me, but my brain really wants them to be in mirrored positions. Which got me wondering if the Surges that do mirror them (Tension and Illumination) have anything to do with H+C. And it's almost just the opposite. I'm a little tempted to throw up the idea of Illumination being Honor's "falsest" Surge or some other catchier name. Basically, the Surge least aligned with Honor's Intent. I doubt Liespren resonate well with Honor. Similarly, that would make Tension Cultivation's "falsest" Surge. Which is a tougher sell to me.. I guess you could say Tension makes things less susceptible to change. And Peakspren are probably the least fluid of the True Spren. I'm sure this has all been said before somewhere. But maybe there should be some implied axii along the diagonals of the Double Eye to represent alignment with the Shardic Intents?

You're welcome. Another fun fact you may find interesting: using multiple Honorblades, bonding multiple spren, or some combination of the two would potentially give you access to new abilities by mixing Surges that aren't normally mixed.

You're referring to this WoB, I believe: And this artwork for Shards of Creation: Brandon said in the WoB that he hadn't 100% made up his mind on Skai but was leaning towards she/her. My guess is he changed his mind.

Actually, Kaladin manifested his own Honorspear when re-forging the Oathpact. So, I think he doesn't really have a connection to Jezrien's old blade. Nale actually was bonded to a spren in addition to holding his Honorblade. Brandon has said that this makes you a bit stronger, but probably by less than you'd imagine: Yes. Brandon has even said you could get access to all 10 Surges at once if you collected the right Honorblades. I think we saw this a little with Szeth. I don't fully recall which ones, but I think he used some of the Honorblades in WaT - despite being a Skybreaker.

Ah well there goes that theory. I guess it's Cultivationspren after all. Thank you for finding the quote. Your point about them being in the center of the Double Eye is definitely interesting, and as the WoB you included says, their powers are different in ways that are similar to how Bondsmith powers are different. So there does seem to be something special about them, but it doesn't sound like being pure Cultivation is it. And thanks to you as well. Yeah, I'm definitely going to keep looking for oddities related to Mistspren/Truthwatchers, but it looks like I was chasing the wrong lead. I would assume Cultivation consented to letting her spren be bound. The oaths were kind of her idea anyway. I'm not sure if this is the same section PanLin was referring to but it might be. WaT 113: Looking at this now, it almost feels like direct manipulation of Tanner and Rayse from Kor. She gave them two options for meting out powers, and one was obviously designed to appeal to Honor. Another thing worth noting from that chapter is that Kor also enters this agreement. I feel like it's often characterized as a pact between Honor and Odium that she just happened to be there for. But it's her pact too.

I always viewed Rayse's targeting of Aona and Skai as convenience more than anything else. He was looking for Ambition first and just happened upon them breaking the agreement that the Shards made and settling the same planet. It gave him an excuse to attack them without provoking the other Shards. A tactic that worked based on Edgli's response (OB Epigraphs 37, 39-41) and the fact that no one came after him. It's probably why he went to Roshar too. Kor and Tanner also broke the rules. So, he would have been "justified" in removing them. Don't forget his goal was to take out all of the other Shards. I don't think he had a special interest in removing Devotion in particular - he just found himself in a position where he knew he could get away with it.

I've seen this idea before. And I do like it quite a bit. However, I think it's hard to reconcile with the Tanavast quote alder24 put above: If the Unmade were the cityspren, I feel like it would have been nearly impossible to hide their creation from Tanavast. Unless Tanavast just really wasn't paying attention. Master_Moridin makes a good point too. There are a few hints that the Unmade aren't all spren. I think alder24's idea of the Ancient Spren already having similar tones to H+C because all Investiture aligned to one of the Shards at the time of the Shattering is the best idea for getting around this. Side note: I feel like sometimes we conflate tones and rhythms in these discussions. Being able to actually hear these things would be nice.. Describing sounds is hard.

There was originally going to be more to their position on the chart, but Brandon felt he was getting too into the weeds: My feeling is that, despite him not committing to it, there's still something important about Truthwatchers compared to the other orders in his head. They might be. I know the Enlightened Cryptic and Inkspren that we saw in WaT had Honor in them. But I think that's because normal Cryptics and Inkspren were made by Honor. If Mistspren are the one variety that Kor created by herself, then normal Mistspren would have no Honor. And neither would enlightened ones. See but I would interpret this bit: to say that one of the Radiant spren is purely of Cultivation (though their ability to use Stormlight admittedly raises some questions). I think that variety will be very important. Because it should be safe from Retribution's influence even without the protection of the Oathpact. Which might be a point in favor of Cultivationspren, since most of the Mistspren we know are corrupted. But I can't shake the idea that Mistspren matter more. I remember this! I'm pretty sure it was the start of my descent into this Mistspren rabbit hole.

I'm not sure a real-world example would translate well to the Cosmere. Most of these planets only have far less governing bodies than Earth. Take Sel. As far as we know, it's 3 Empires and 2 independent nations. Getting 5 political powers to unify against say, Retribution knocking at their door, feels pretty within reach. It kind of has to be for the sake of the story. Even Roshar's 31 nations were essentially boiled down to 2 main alliances by the end of WaT. The average reader won't keep track of that many moving parts. I swear there's a WoB somewhere where Brandon talks about simplifying the Alethi government by removing most of the highprinces for a similar reason, but maybe I just imagined it because I cannot find it. I could see 2-3 factions per planet, but it starts getting too complicated beyond that.