Onironte

Agreed, I just wanted to point out that, with Honor dead, there is no way of knowing what sort of pre-Oathpact use of the Surges can the Heralds drawn upon now. We know that, with the abilities they had around 10000 years ago, they helped to practically destroy a planet, and the containment measures that Honor once imposed by are probably no longer a thing after the Sunmaker's Gambit at the end of WaT. I just wanted to point out that there is no way of knowing whether Heralds have other Surges-related powers we are not accounting for. That's what I'm referring to by heraldic abilities: That's fair. No help from Harmony, then. I happen to disagree. Taln at WaT is impressive. Supersonic speed, superhuman strength... but I do not believe that is something you can expect in to be at the same level in every Herald. Firstly, we know that Taln is the more capable fighter among the Heralds. Even before of those 4500 years at Braize. For those 4500 years he held by "sheer determination". In audition, his Identity was probably affected by 4500 years of worshipers, what probably made him even more capable. The thing about Taln catching darts on the flight and being able to move at supersonic speed is -in my opinion- linked more to his instincts (based on his Identity) that in actually conscious thinking. I don't think even Taln is able of "supersonic speed of thinking". Otherwise I think he shouldn't have died. And all this supersonic speed wouldn't help Taln against something that his has never seen before, like being attacked by a flock of rainbow ducks with spikes as peaks. His Identity is not superposed to know how to do that. Killing Fused, that he had done for thousands of years. That he can do. He can probably kill anyone on normal combat. But his instincts, the ones that allows him to be supersonic, simply wouldn't work against something that make no sense, like fighting against a pink cloud that grows fists or whatever nonsense Shallan can come up with. And, against the Surges, if she can think fast enough (something we can manage with un-keyed F-Zinc) I think she can counter every Surge. Some surges, like Adhesion, only works if the Herald can touch Shallan. She can protect herself with her Shardplate or even Soulcasting herself an aluminum plate. Agreed. The problem then would be that, if the Herald has no storminglight would suffocate, unless you make the aluminum box with holes to breath. And if the Herald happens to have access to the Surges of Division (spreading the aluminum atoms) Tension (liquefying the cage) Transformation (closing the holes and killing itself) or some other that allows the Herald to kill or free itself, we would have problems. Thats why I think that the Hemalurgic approach is the best one. If we can spike the Herald with sufficient precision and keep it alive, using Progression, we have essentially won. We get Shallan to spike the Herald on the right spots using substantiated illusions (which have practically no limitation of speed, they are not that substantial) we rend it useless, steeling its strength with Iron, its senses with Tin, emotional fortitude with Zinc, Cooper for intelligence, while having an Edgerunner or Truthwatcher, also with F-Zinc, to make sure that the Herald says alive. Sorry, I'll change it. Ouch... it would have been nice. Definitively no PHANTOM. Auch. Thanks for the answer and wobs, @Frustration!

So, after 4 pages of pure-gold ideas, the conclusion is basically that the Heralds are quite overpowered. Because of the Oathpact all of the heralds share some traits and abilities. They are at least very competent in probably every style of fighting (I'll forgive Chana; I think the fact that she lost was due to Shallan being her daughter, not Chana being incompetent). We have been shown that their heraldic abilities are simply insane. Supersonic speed, being strong enough to shatter a Shardplate as if it were nothing... I'll assume that they are in possession of their corresponding Honorblade, and that means that each one has access to two Surges. Surges that they have used for centuries. They also get other abilities from their Honorblades, some of which (extra strength and speed) are but a trick compared to their heraldic abilities, but they also get the ability to heal effectively. To be honest, I think those are quite nothing compared to their pre-Oathpact abilities. We see Ishar holding big Else-gates for an extended period of time. We see Heralds shining bright, being able to use Surges in ways that destroyed Ashyn. We know that they are still able to do some of those things (like using the Vedel method to make Kal immortal), and an insane Herald will have no qualms exploiting everything they have. I see no reason why this insane random Herald should just not use Division to reduce Scadrial to ashes. Yes, I am aware that Dawnshards were involved in the catastrophe on Ashyn, but I think it's best to prepare for the worst scenario. So... what can we do? I don't know why, but the idea of using emotional allomancy on them feels awkward. It feels to me that the Oathpact would give them some sort of protection from those sorts of attacks. But, since our beloved Scadrial is at stake, we can give it a try. I don't feel like finding a different approach for every Herald, so I'll try some general strategies. I have two main ideas I would like to give a try: To awaken an anti-stormlight spren created to obliterate the mad Herald. Try and get some help from Shallan. FIRST STRATEGY: I was thinking that, in this particular task, Saz wouldn't be totally useless. The task seems to align quite well with Harmony, Ruin and Preservation: to bring ruin to a herald in order to prevent him from ruining us, therefore preserving everything as harmoniously as it was before. Less so for the ruined Herald, that is. We Ghostbloods have quite a reserve of pure Investiture, and ways to get more. It does not seem nuts to think that you could Align it (Aspect it? Key it?) to be anti-stormlight. We can ask Saz for help, use the Pure Tones, even try Forgery on it (can I soulstamp pure Investiture?) or simply all of the above. So, having fetched our anti-stormlight (still on Scadrial), we have to make it spren-ish, sentient. Let's call it PHANTOM (Patriotic Herald-phagus Autonomous Nightbloodish Tactical Overkiller Murderer). We have seen around the cosmere (Sprens in SA, Taln himself, Elantris...) how perception molds Investiture. If we are to create this PHANTOM, we will only have one chance. And still more than 5 months left. We first design this PHANTOM, its personality, values, ideals, plan, everything. We create a self-coherent, whole Identity for PHANTOM, making sure that it will be (and do) what we want it to do. It has to be simple, and yet whole. We need it to be as simple as possible (so it's easier to imagine it) and yet not so simple as to be dysfunctional (we want it to kill a Herald). Its personality would be basically an entity who understands the threat that the Herald poses and is willing to obliterate itself in order to stop the menace. Once PHANTOM is clear in our minds, it's time to bring it alive. We get at least 50 fellow Ghostbloods in a room with our proto-PHANTOM. They know PHANTOM's Identity, who it is, they have been studding it for a month. For the rest of the time, we get them to meditate. To meditate on believing and tricking their senses to feel PHANTOM. We can use emotional allomancy to make them more faithful, to induce them into a state that facilitates the process of creating PHANTOM. We can use F-zinc to get them to think (pun intended) faster. If this is not enough, we might need to use marketing (and some of our connections within the Church of the Survivor) in order to get more mental power from our beloved Elendel. Or... weird idea. We get a Kandra. We provide it a huge ton of... "material", so it creates a body whose only function is to believe that PHANTOM is real (and survive). The mental and belief power of hundreds of persons in just one Kandra. For some reason, I don't think this is possible, but trying hurts no one. We don't need it, but it would be quite the cherry on top. If we can indeed apply a Soulstamp to anti-stormlight, it might be even easier. We would just have to use the Stamp and get PHANTOM to a Perpendicularity. We would create (code?) PHANTOM in such a way that it would be able to navigate Shadesmar, or maybe even fly using its own (plentiful) Investiture as a fuel. We might give PHANTOM some systems that protect it from accidentally exploding when in contact with a source of stormlight. And make it undetectable and other useful things. And then... we just grab some popcorn. And think about the creepy parallelism between this and that time when the weirdos of gold and red tried to blow up a bomb without knowing the consequences. Then we get the explosion... have we just broken Wayne's record? Harmony is crying... Seriously, what were we thinking? All that amount of anti-stormlight... applied to a Herald. That has really strong connections with every other Herald. And a big chunk of Honor... Hmm... Maybe we overreacted a bit... Kelsier gets into the room, I tell him my concerns. Why are his hands red-blooded? Or is it a tattoo? He laughs, and says something about the greater good, and extinguishing some blue lights on Roshar. He tells me that I have been found worthy of bonding an Enlightened Inkspren. All's well that ends well. SECOND STRATEGY: We have established that there is no way you can defeat a Herald in a fair battle. But, what if you could summon a huge sphere of aluminum around the Herald? What if you could deform reality itself, like, for example, pushing the herald with wind from every direction? Or creating layers upon layers of horrible creatures from Braize... that actually can harm you? With enough Investiture, Shallan can potentially deny every Surge. Division with Transformation, Gravitation can't fly if you are grabbing the Herald with a hand made of stone, I don't think there is any Surge that can be a problem. Connection gives me creeps. I just feel like Ishar would immediately steal every photon (that is not a thing, is it?) of stormlight. We would use Pure Investiture. I know that Shallan quite hates us... I don't know why, really. But you know how those rusty Rosharans are, don't you? I think we could ask her, you know, all the life-before-heralds, or whatever nonsense they believe these days... And, if she refuses... Well, we can always place a nice bomb, or rather ten, the ones the Group taught us how to make, and then place them in different locations. Extra points if those places have innocents and shelled kittens. The choice is hers: to kill a lunatic Herald, with our help and support and some candies for her kids, or the bombs go boom. It's important to make her understand that the bombs are connected via seons; if one is deactivated... you know. We break Wayne's record anyway. She is not that great, really, we just need her to share her delusions with a lunatic. Lunatic in the bad sense, you know, not like the Lord of Scars. We will provide her with F-zinc, to be delusional faster, and all of that. And the jars of investiture... Am I missing something? Oh, yes, we might tell Shallan to Transformate spikes of air into spikes of silver, and aluminum, and some iron and tin, some copper too. And chromium and nicrosil and duralumin! That won't harm us, for sure. We obviously tell her about the Intent needed for proper spiking. So, the Herald either ends up shattered into a bunch of spikes, completely (threat neutralized) or partially, which is functionally the same. Or we might try the trapping-him-in-aluminum strategy... That would be more fun. Imagine all the things we might discover! Can I steal the Heraldic abilities with Hemalurgy? Can I use an Awakened copper metalmind to steal every memory of the herald? And identity and all the other stuff (barring the connections that make the Herald powerful, that is)? Can I then use that empty body as a Lifeless? How many spikes do I need to apply to my mindless Herald to make it my Hemalurgic puppet? What do you think? Please, point out any and every mistake I have made.

I like the theory. It makes too much sense to dismiss. The only problem I can think of Mother Frond herself being Cultivation. An important part of the role of perpendicularity is that it is not caused by a Shard. But that doesn't negate Mother Frond's Cultivation-ish aura. I hadn't noticed the similarities, but now that you point them out, they're quite obvious. Perhaps Mother Frond is an avatar of Cultivation? That way, it wouldn't contradict the whole idea of Shardless perpendicularity.

Please to meet you, @Shard of Reason! I have always thought that the Invested Art of Whimsy would have something to do with the idea that, randomly, one of your wishes, imaginations, or thoughts would become real without any prior warning. You simply think something, and it happens. Or else, somehow, a power given to those whom Whimsy (whimsically) chooses, allowing them to evade the consequences of their actions. Pity, perhaps, should have some kind of Invested Art that allows people to take on the pain of others

If a non-Radiant were to receive Stormlight, I think it would be similar to giving Allomantic metals to someone who isn’t a Mistborn. They would have the Investiture present in their body, but wouldn’t be able to use it. I don’t believe you could create a Misting this way, since Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities depend on the spiritual DNA—not just the presence of Investiture in the body. However, Rayseium might provide a way to steal Breaths. And since Feruchemy can grant attributes like health and youth (hence they are forms of Investiture), perhaps Rayseium could be used to steal those attributes as well. Theoretically. I think.

So, a simple question: Events involving one or more Shards being Splintered, merged, or anything of the sort usually come with major consequences. Ado’s death was something along the lines of Ambition’s, but at least sixteen times more powerful. If we consider that Ado’s power was qualitatively greater than a Shard’s, not just quantitatively, then the Splintering should have been enough to burn out the entire Spiritual Realm, or something equally massive. Why didn’t it? The only explanation I can think of is that using the Dawnshard’s Splinters is more effective than simply forcing a Shard to Splinter by brute force. Instead of fragmenting power violently, you turn the very intent or nature of that power against itself, making it divide on its own rather than tearing it apart externally. But even this doesn’t seem like a very satisfying explanation. The sheer amount of entropy that such a release of Investiture should have created is tremendous. What do we know? & What do you think?

Okay, I'm missing something important... Why don't Inkspren need Nahel bonds anymore?

I would probably be a windspren, so... maybe just float around? If I were a smart spren but not Nahel-bonded, I would probably go to the Peaks for a while, just to be adored. I would likely try to find Cultivation and offer to be her emissary, an ally. I would seek the Old Magic to be able to use the Surges and become a Surgebinder myself, without needing a Knight. Then I would act as a diplomat between the Shards. I would help Hoid and follow him (cool things happen around him), picking up investiture all across the Cosmere. Oh, I know: I would go after my dearest Sig and propose to him that he give me the Dawnshard of Existence. And since I am a spren, probably an Inkspren or a Highspren, the command of Existence would be tied to my own Intent, self-mastery if Inkspren, seeking Justice if Highspren. That would prevent me from being limited by the torment of the Dawnshard. Once I reached that point, I think I would get bored and just continue following Hoid. By the way, what is exactaly what Szeth do, and why does it impact the value of an inkspren?

I think the more likely option about the wife's identity is Valor, yet it doesn't make sense that a Shard whose intent is Valor would blank her own memory just to "avoid the memories of an unsatisfactory relationship". My two cents are on Valor being the wife, her memory erased by a valorous act of some sort. Even though Aether of Night is non-canon, we have already seen a lot of ideas from the novel in the Cosmere: What do you think?

Is there any evidence that Vivenna’s blade is a Type IV BioChromatic Entity (an awakened inorganic object with true sentience like Nightblood), rather than just a Type III? It would make sense that, once Vasher realized the dangers of a truly Awakened inorganic sword—particularly one capable of killing Vessels—he would have advised Vivenna against making another like Nightblood, and instead suggested she simply Awaken a wooden sword, or even a sword soulcast from wood.

It's just a theory, but I think that, since their souls are so intrinsically connected to the Spiritual Realm as to make them unable to receive a nahel bond, they should be able to stand against Shardblades, their Investiture being replenished constantly. Probably Nightblood would be different. Or maybe not—maybe a dragon could stand against the weapon that destroyed Rayse. Rayse was Connected to a Shard, and that Shard was Connected to the Spiritual Realm, where the Shard's Investiture came from. Dragons are directly Connected to the Spiritual Realm. That could make Nightblood reach the "saciated" state before consuming the dragon soul/mind.

Thanks for the answer @Treamayne! (and for the WoBs) I get that you can not use a Bondsmith to change the Cognitive Identity of someone, but could you use an Elsecaller instead? Up to what I know, the main difference between Soulcasting and Forgery is that when you try to put a Soulstamp on someone, you have to "create" every single detail about who (or what) the stamped person will become. On the other hand, the limiting factor of Soulcasting living beings is that a lot of investiture is needed to "counter" the investiture of the living being. You do not need to "create" every single detail about what will the Soulcasted person become, only order it (and pay for it). So, we have got a dying (less Invested) friend, we could Souldcast them into the pretermentioned supra-Kandra, couldn't we?

How does healing works on the Comsere? We have seen at least three different kinds of healing powers: F-Gold, Surgebinding-based healing (both the Surge itself and the effect of Stormlight on Radiant Knights) and Wit's powers, but they all seem to work in quite the same way: So, if you think of yourself as ill, ill you will be. Nevertheless, I believe that this "thinking" (poetic redundancy, forgive me) is not brain-related thinking. (I know it's not canon, but Dragonsteel Prime has tons of things that have become canon.) That being said, we don't have any (surgical neural-network engineering) way of altering someone's brain, but we do have a way of altering their connections to make them (or at least the unconscious part of them) believe they are something that they are not. So, finally getting to the title: a powerful enough Bondsmith (or someone with Ishar's Honorblade) could make someone believe he is not human, but a dog. Or a dragon (unfortunately, that dragon would not have draconic-related magic, what a pity). Then the subject would heal himself or be healed by a Truthwatcher or Edgedancer, and become the imagined creature. So let's take it one step further: Kandra. Those marvelous creatures with only two big problems—metallic, blood-related problems. Spike based problems.— We could bypass those problems by simply making someone believe that they are a Kandra, but with the difference that their minds won't be imprisoned in spikes, but spread throughout the body, contained in their ultra-developed neural tissue. And you could grant them other Blessings—not magic-related, but biologically possible ones. You could make them able to digest dirt, to sense electromagnetic fields, or even to make them infect people with a virus that would heal every illness, strengthen the bones and muscles, and all of that stuff. As long as it's biologically possible, only the sky is the limit. No, probably not even that. You could give yourself wings, lighten your bones, and change your body structure so that you can fly. And swim under miles of water above you. And run faster than Fleet. Imagination (and physics) are the only limits. You could create an army that could outrun the Fused without Investiture or effort. And imagine them Invested—that could be perilous. Your presumed reality becoming your reality. This seems too stupid, crazy, and logical to make any sense. Please tell me your opinion or any other related theory, and where I am wrong.

I really like that theory, hope it comes truth sometime... An Honorful god indeed... the mind on the god being only the consequence of it's own powers. But Honorbution would be still un-full, as is not Honorable to took the god from the people, to get Devotion and Ascend while destroying Elantrians. So Honorbution probably would not take all the Shards, what would make him Un-Harmonious. And Honor is still a child. Ati used to be kind and generous, Honor would have agreed with killing Odium, even if that resulted in the end of Roshar. Ati became a psychopath. Even though he wasn't partially brought up by Odium and Taravangian.

Yes, it is truth that Honorsprens are not an example of Honor, nor El is of Odium, but still they are small chunks of Honor's and Odium's power. If we are arguin that the Evil is the last remnant of Ambition's power, it has to be Invested by thousand (an approximation) times more power. However, if we agree on most of Ambition's Investiture (aka Ambition's corpse) being out there hidden, maybe Silverlight, maybe Vax (why not?), maybe Braize or wherever, the Evil would be less Invested to a similar level as sprens or unmades, so that could explain why is not especially ambitious.