Who's the person Hoid wants to contact?

[Erklitt]

I mentioned this idea in passing on another thread, the moment it came to me, and at the time I thought it rather unlikely. But I think it more likely after mulling it over:

I think it's Khriss. 

At least I think it's either her, or someone we don't know yet. No other known candidate makes sense, in my opinion:

• Sazed: too new and 'balanced'. 
• Vasher: he would be easily accessible if it were him, so it isn't.
• Frost: determined on non-intervention.

 

Hoid needs someone who knows more than he does, a tall order. For me, none but the above come to mind as being possibly both willing and able. And we have this WoB:

 

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Is Hoid the most knowledgeable about what's going on in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, Khriss is the most aware by a long shot. Nazh knows a lot as well. Hoid might know more than Nazh but he is pretty in the know as well so it's close.

Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014)

 

I don't remember seeing any meaningful  interaction between Hoid and Khriss on screen. (She might have heard him sing as a bard once or twice on Taldain in WS GN, I don't remember.) But I would guess Hoid became aware of her then, which was way back. I'm sure they know each other now. Whether that relationship is friendly or not I have no way of knowing, but it could be. At least both are, as far as we know and as far as that goes , 'of good intent'. 

Also, it would make sense from a storytelling point of view: After SH and TLM, the SA has also now become a lot more cosmere-aware than formerly. I think it's a good time to give a well known (to fandom) but as yet little seen great Worldhopper a bigger stage on screen.

What do you think? Any WoB's I don't know supporting or contradicting? Scenes between Hoid and Khriss I might have forgotten or never read? Other suggestions? 

Edited September 24, 2024 by Erklitt

[Ashbringer he/him]

I think Khriss is a likely call. It seems fairly strange that she's seemingly not around, despite everyone else seeming to want to party on Roshar.

I do think there's two or three other possibilities - one is pretty simple that instead of it being Khriss, it's Nazh, specifically because we know Nazh is on Roshar and we don't know Khriss. Another possibility is we finally meet that pesky Rosharan Kandra that's been WoBed about a few times - I think this one's more unlikely, but any kandra that's been around for a while in the Final Empire would certainly be an expert on Contracts.

It's also possible that it is Frost. Frost is non-intervention focused, but even he seems glad that Odium is bound to Roshar - he might have a few words of wisdom if he finds a gaping loophole in the contest rules.

[Erklitt]

6 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I do think there's two or three other possibilities - one is pretty simple that instead of it being Khriss, it's Nazh, specifically because we know Nazh is on Roshar and we don't know Khriss. Another possibility is we finally meet that pesky Rosharan Kandra that's been WoBed about a few times - I think this one's more unlikely, but any kandra that's been around for a while in the Final Empire would certainly be an expert on Contracts.

Good suggestions, if it weren't for this:

Quote

“On your world?” he asked. “Only one, but she and I aren’t on speaking terms. I will instead see if I can contact an old friend…” (WaT ch 14)

So the person is not on Roshar right now. On the other hand: Frost coming around? When he sees a loopholey contract that might end up freeing Odium, that's certainly a possibility. Good point.

[alder24]

22 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

I mentioned this idea in passing on another thread, the moment it came to me, and at the time I thought it rather unlikely. But I think it more likely after mulling it over:

I think it's Khriss. 

At least I think it's either her, or someone we don't know yet. No other known candidate makes sense, in my opinion:

• Sazed: too new and 'balanced'. 
• Vasher: he would be easily accessible if it were him, so it isn't.
• Frost: determined on non-intervention.

 

Hoid needs someone who knows more than he does, a tall order. For me, none but the above come to mind as being possibly both willing and able. And we have this WoB:

I don't remember seeing any meaningful  interaction between Hoid and Khriss on screen. (She might have heard him sing as a bard once or twice on Taldain in WS GN, I don't remember.) But I would guess Hoid became aware of her then, which was way back. I'm sure they know each other now. Whether that relationship is friendly or not I have no way of knowing, but it could be. At least both are, as far as we know and as far as that goes , 'of good intent'. 

Also, it would make sense from a storytelling point of view: After SH and TLM, the SA has also now become a lot more cosmere-aware than formerly. I think it's a good time to give a well known (to fandom) but as yet little seen great Worldhopper a bigger stage on screen.

What do you think? Any WoB's I don't know supporting or contradicting? Scenes between Hoid and Khriss I might have forgotten or never read? Other suggestions? 

I doubt it. While Khriss and Hoid know each other and Hoid thinks of her well, I doubt she's an "old friend" of his - she's certainly not as old as Cultivation. In fact she reacted very strongly, when Kelsier told her Hoid stole Lerasium from the Well and she left Scadrial after hearing that. Hoid doesn't need someone who knows Realmatics well, he needs someone who knows Vessels - Rayse specifically - and Shardic Oaths. Khriss stays far away from Vessels. She also doesn't intervene on that scale, she’s just a scholar collecting knowledge.

Frost is a strong candidate, the only thing that disqualifies him is his non-interventionism. But he knows Rayse very well, he met him before the Shattering and Hoid already exchanged mail with him.

However, now I think Hoid is talking about the Vessel of Valor. They seem to be on good terms, Valor even misses him and she would certainly know a lot about Rayse and Shardic deals - she has a personal experience in that. And we have a WoB that says Valor will be name dropped in WaT. 

RoW letter:

Quote

I do think that Valor is reasonable, and suggest you approach her again. It has been too long, in her estimation, since your last conversation.

 

Spoiler

ArgentSun

Tell us a little bit about Valor. What’s her Vessel like? Any fun anecdotes? Hoid once bought Tanavast a drink; are there fun stories with Valor’s Vessel? Just anything?

Brandon Sanderson

Let’s put this one off for just a little longer. Let’s RAFO Valor. How about this, I’ll give you one thing: Valor is name-dropped in Stormlight Five.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023)

 

[Erklitt]

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

However, now I think Hoid is talking about the Vessel of Valor. [...]

Thanks, that' something I hadn't seen.

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

I am thinking it is Frost, he would want to know if there is a contract loophole that lets Odium get un-contained. But I had one other idea:

What if this is how the final Shard is introduced? If it turns out to have an intent like "Prudence" or "Wisdom" that could be a fantastic person to review a Shardic contract for a mistake. 

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Dreamwa1ker said:

What if this is how the final Shard is introduced? If it turns out to have an intent like "Prudence" or "Wisdom" that could be a fantastic person to review a Shardic contract for a mistake. 

Oh yes, you reminded me of this WoB:

Spoiler

LewsTherinTelescope (paraphrased)

You dodged my question about Hoid's monologue during the stream, so let me ask a different one: is it relevant that Hoid lists four concepts together at the end of The Way of Kings? Intellect, artistry, and...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

LewsTherinTelescope (paraphrased)

And it's about the last Shard, the wisdom-adjacent one?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah, you are thiiiiis close. Stormlight Five is going to come out and you're not going to be surprised. You're very close.

LewsTherinTelescope (paraphrased)

So we'll have all of Adonalsium named, all sixteen Shards?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Footnote: The questioner is referring to this WoB.
C2E2 2024 (April 26, 2024)

We will have the name of the last Shard in WaT. I agree, it's also possible this is the old friend Hoid will talk to.

[Algafix]

Just as a curiosity, in the official Spanish translation, Hoid refers to the friend as a male: "viejo amigo".

So my guess is Frost.

[Kfish]

16 hours ago, Erklitt said:

Good suggestions, if it weren't for this:

So the person is not on Roshar right now. On the other hand: Frost coming around? When he sees a loopholey contract that might end up freeing Odium, that's certainly a possibility. Good point.

I thought Frost for that reason but I doubt he shows up on world. Probably gives help over bone phone. 

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, Algafix said:

Just as a curiosity, in the official Spanish translation, Hoid refers to the friend as a male: "viejo amigo".

So my guess is Frost.

My first thought was Frost as well, as there aren't many beings in the Cosmere who Hoid would consider an "old friend" considering his own age, and somehow consulting with another Shard about the contract terms with Odium doesn't seem wise (other than Cultivation, who is on Roshar and apparently has a vested interest in opposing Odium, but that's who I would assume is implied to be the one with whom Hoid is "not on speaking terms").

In Frost's reply to Hoid's letter to him, he names Hoid as an "old friend", and dismisses Hoid's concerns about the threat Rayse/Odium poses to the Cosmere as he was "contained" to Roshar. So out of fear that that containment could be at risk, based on there being a new, more subtle, and therefore more dangerous new Vessel of Odium, will be how Hoid gets Frost to assist in the review.

Quote

You've always been able to bring out the most extreme in me, old friend. And I do still name you a friend, for all that you weary me. ... Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain. My path has been chosen very deliberately. Yes, I agree with everything you have said about Rayse, including the severe danger he presents. However, it seems to me that all things have been set up for a purpose, and if we—as infants—stumble through the workshop, we risk exacerbating, not preventing, a problem.

Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited. Whether this was Tanavast’s design or not, millennia have passed without Rayse taking the life of another of the sixteen. While I mourn for the great suffering Rayse has caused, I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this. He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become. I suspect that he is more a force than an individual now, despite your insistence to the contrary. That force is contained, and an equilibrium reached.

Is it, though, Frost? IS IT???

[Qviqve]

Frost was my first bet too, that "old friend" sounds too obvious, but... Does Hoid knows that the Odium's vessel has changed? Of course, he knows that something is different, but not what has change exactly... 

However, the dragon may be interested in the contract if there are loopholes where Odium can escape from Roshar and become a menace for the Cosmere once again. 

Or maybe Hoid is looking for some Wisdom, now that Frost is immortal (a lot of Breaths? a Dawnshard? or even a Shard for himself?? But this is another story...

Quote

Old friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given. I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think

 

[+robardin he/him]

11 minutes ago, Qviqve said:

Frost was my first bet too, that "old friend" sounds too obvious, but... Does Hoid knows that the Odium's vessel has changed? Of course, he knows that something is different, but not what has change exactly... 

However, the dragon may be interested in the contract if there are loopholes where Odium can escape from Roshar and become a menace for the Cosmere once again. 

Or maybe Hoid is looking for some Wisdom, now that Frost is immortal (a lot of Breaths? a Dawnshard? or even a Shard for himself?? But this is another story...

Good point, Hoid is only now suspecting that Rayse "has changed", he hasn't yet gotten to the point where he'll put it together that it's Odium that has changed (Vessels, that is!).

That said, Hoid has suddenly realized there COULD be some kind of flaw in the agreement to the Contest of Champions, and if he's worried that a suddenly more subtle Odium might have seen it with only eight days to go, if Frost is an expert that Hoid would consult, there's a great urgency to do so now, isn't there?

Perhaps that's what Cultivation showed up to drop on Dalinar in the same chapter. And then hey, even if she's not "on speaking terms" with Hoid, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that.

[Master Silver]

Hoid has a way of hiding from Shards, but can he hide from Cultivation, especially in the tower? They both knew Rayse. If Cultivation is concerned, you would think she would want to collaborate with Hoid. I am still at a loss about how they are going about the contest and preparation. I will post that elsewhere. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

3 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Hoid has a way of hiding from Shards, but can he hide from Cultivation, especially in the tower? They both knew Rayse. If Cultivation is concerned, you would think she would want to collaborate with Hoid. I am still at a loss about how they are going about the contest and preparation. I will post that elsewhere. 

That assumes that Cultivation wants to keep Odium on Roshar, as that is Hoid's goal. To put it bluntly, why would she want that? Fighting Odium has cost her enough already.

[+robardin he/him]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That assumes that Cultivation wants to keep Odium on Roshar, as that is Hoid's goal. To put it bluntly, why would she want that? Fighting Odium has cost her enough already.

That's an interesting point. But she clearly considered Rayse holding Odium dangerous enough to engineer his replacement as its Vessel -- besides, Odium openly acknowledged that the first thing he'd do after being freed from whatever is binding him as a result of Honor, he'd go after Cultivation.

She'd have to believe that Taravangian would not have the same intent if he were freed, and based on their brief conversation earlier in WaT, I don't think she believes that at all.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

29 minutes ago, robardin said:

That's an interesting point. But she clearly considered Rayse holding Odium dangerous enough to engineer his replacement as its Vessel

Dangerous or inflexible?

29 minutes ago, robardin said:

She'd have to believe that Taravangian would not have the same intent if he were freed, and based on their brief conversation earlier in WaT, I don't think she believes that at all.

Even if Taravangian-Odium believes that there should just be one Shard, it will be a win for Cultivation as long as he is flexible about the order in which he tries to achieve his goal.

Hoid and Harmony seem to essentially plan to keep Odium on Roshar for as long as possible to prepare for a war against him. The other Shards are basically OK with that. That plan, however, means that Cultivation pays the price. In fact the other Shards probably see the possibility of an outcome, where Odium is easier to defeat because he will have been weakened by fighting and defeating Cultivation.
I cannot imagine that she likes that plan.

[Inevitability]

On 9/24/2024 at 3:44 PM, Erklitt said:

“On your world?” he asked. “Only one, but she and I aren’t on speaking terms. I will instead see if I can contact an old friend…” (WaT ch 14)

I think the answer could be simple. I think this “contact” that Hoid is referring to could be what initiated the letters that we already have between Frost and Hoid. We might just not have had the context in WoK and RoW to understand the letters were foreshadowing and not current to the timeline of those books. We might even see in WaT that Hoid is frustrated by Frost’s response and then decides to reach out to the other shards for help dealing with Odium

Edited September 26, 2024 by Inevitability

[Erklitt]

Very interesting idea, and not impossible.

I think it unlikely for two reasons:

1. So far, all other epigraph series had something to do with the current timeline. Citations were from texts that were either written or read or translated and published by characters during the current book. The death rattles were collected concurrently with events in WoK etc.
2. In his letter to Frost, Hoid mentions the 17th shard hunting him, which we also see in an interlude in WoK. We haven't seen them for some time. Nowadays...

Spoiler for WaT - 'Dyle interlude' from a reading, not yet officially pre-published:

Spoiler

Nowadays our 17th shard trio seems to be more interested in studying Radiants, currently they tour Iri on that errand. Doesn't look like they're still actively hunting Hoid. So Frost probably fulfilled at least this request. When they are given a rude letter Hoid has left for them, the reaction is basically eyerolling.

Still, it's a possibility to keep in mind.

Edited September 26, 2024 by Erklitt

[Inevitability]

2 hours ago, Erklitt said:

Spoiler for WaT - 'Dyle interlude' from a reading, not yet officially pre-published:

  Reveal hidden contents

Nowadays our 17th shard trio seems to be more interested in studying Radiants, currently they tour Iri on that errand. Doesn't look like they're still actively hunting Hoid. So Frost probably fulfilled at least this request. When they are given a rude letter Hoid has left for them, the reaction is basically eyerolling.

Still, it's a possibility to keep in mind.

I think where that specific interlude is located in WaT could matter for this idea. If that interlude is late in the book, that could still leave room for the 17th shard directive to have changed

I’m not sure that this really impacts a whole lot. Those letters were more Easter eggs than anything. If they were written during the 10 days of WaT, it would at least provide the motivation for the letters. 
The other thing that would make more sense in this time frame - what had Odium really done lately during WoK that would have motivated Hoid to panic write his pen pal Gods across the Cosmere? 
I think it was easy to read those letters when WoK and WoR were released because we thought we were getting introduced to the Big Bad of the Stormlight Archive. 
Now that we have the released chapters - we see a panicked Hoid. This is definitely motivation to reach out