Erklitt

In Germany it's usually pretty precisely at midnight. Most times when I expect a pre-ordered book I stay up long enough to make sure it's there and at least open it and read a few sentences, even if I can't really start reading because I have to get up the next morning . No idea whether it's like that everywhere, but there's at least one data point for you.

I think the hearing came later, on the trip back. But the face entered her drawings against her will like the Cryptics did in WoK. She tried to stop worrying about it, and then Kelek saw a drawing and recognized BAM.

Certainly Bluth (or whatever the name of Tvlakv's helper was exactly) in WoR. But I can't remember anyone else. All those others whom she drew on that voyage who later became the Silent Court (like Gaz) are still alive. So is Kelek (so far). Who else do we know she drew 'idealized'? So while your assumption about Elhokar may be true, I don't think impending death is a common theme there.

I disagree. For me, the question was never primarily about whether the SF could or did lie. (SF meaning either father or faker when I don't write the whole word). It was two other things. One of them has indeed been tempered down by: but not eliminated: that whole 'Gavilar will be a Herald' idea. Even in the final version, SF does not completely deny the possibility. And the words that he says are 'almost them' sound far more like a Herald taking up the burden of the Oathpact than the first ideal of the KR. So why would the SF nudge Gavilar toward trying to be a herald? About the second, nothing has changed: It would make sense that Ishar doesn't want the other Heralds to know about this before he has his replacement Herald ready. But if this is the real Stormfather, who are they, and why musn't they know?

No it wasn't. It was homicide, done after strong provocation. There was nothing premeditated about it. Yes it was. But hiding it, allowing his son to find out about it through his book instead of telling him himself after he'd remembered? Dalinar used to do that all the time. Adolin was goaded into it in one single instance after intense provocation. Sorry, your comparisons just don't add up.

Yes we do, because we hear Dalinar voicing them several times. I don't have the time to search out all those quotations, but 'you are a better man from the start' has been the tone of Dalinar towards Adolin for almost three books. Just one example I knew how to find quickly: Adolin murdered a man who was not only a continuing thorn in their flesh, threatening to undermine them further, but had tried to kill Dalinar and Adolin and was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Dalinar's troops. Dalinar killed his wife and Adolin's mother. You really want to put those two things on the same level, arguing that the reactions to both should be compared in their strength?

This. The rupture began with Adolin admitting to killing Sadeas. Dalinar's reaction is extremely unjust. A short first wave of anger would be understandable, both because of the deed itself and the long silence. But continuing to think less of Adolin for that, after what Dalinar himself did in his younger days - who in Adolin's shoes wouldn't resent that? The problem is that Dalinar had lifted Adolin on an inhuman pedestal of perfection and now blames him for being not quite that perfect. As I recall, the reason given for Adolin knowing about it now is that - while yet officially unpublished - parts of the book had already gotten around. So, yeah...

I think this theory has a lot going for it. Also, I like it much better than several other theories about Odium's champion. I don't want to see Adolin or Gavinor or anyone else we have reason to root for. I never liked Szeth, he is just too fanatical, no matter which side he currently fights for. I would like Kaladin to be able to help Szeth and gather more experience as a therapist. But that could still happen, before Szeth finds out about TOdium, and then things could go like you describe. Or Kaladin makes a few beginner mistakes with Szeth and learns from those, only to be better able to help Ishar. To your excellent reasons I would like to add one more: between now and the time he'll find out about TOdium, he will (try to?) 'bring justice' to the leaders of Shinovar. It sounds a lot like he's planning to kill them. We know too little about that whole situation yet for intelligent theory making, but there are several possibilities: The Shamans were acting in good faith when they made him Truthless. Whatever happened since then to make Shinovar go dark, we don't know for sure it was their fault. In that case they certainly owe Szeth an apology and, if possible, some sort of reparation, but they don't deserve death. His Highspren will probably not approve. Killing them drives Szeth deeper into guilt and hatred, opening him to Odium. They were acting in good faith back then but since that time they've become guilty of creating or worsening the current situation. Maybe they deserve death by now, but that's not Szeth's reason for killing them. We don't even know whether he knows about more recent developments. So he'll still kill them for the wrong reason, a personal revenge that has nothing to do with their real guilt. In that case his Highspren might approve, and while he won't feel as guilty, his hatred will still have won the day, again opening him to Odium The Shamans knew better even back then. They fully deserve Szeth's revenge. He has no need to face his personal hatred, because full justice was done. Then, when he learns about TOdium, this part of your theory will take its fullest effect: He never trusted Taravangian. He did trust Dalinar. Disappointed trust can lead to much more hatred than ill-usage. He may decide that Dalinar deserves more punishment than Taravangian, because he 'seemed good' in a way T never did. Driving him to fight even for T if it's against Dalinar. One very small matter: this is the no-cosmere-spoiler-forum. So (VERY mild TSM spoiler) probably should have a spoiler frame in your post, too, though it doesn't really give anything away about TSM.

@logicless.bt I also like this topic, and it has made me think. Have we seen any abilities from Jasnah that are hard to explain? I've searched my memory, and the only thing that comes to mind is that her soulcasting skills are otherworldly: without touch in WoK when she kills those murderers in Kharbranth; creating that gigantic wall and making stairs in real time during the battle of Thaylen City... So my conclusion for the time being matches @Icy's: Her bond began roughly around the same time as Shallan's first bond with Testament - a little later, as she didn't yet understand what was happening to her on the day Gavilar died, while at the same time Shallan already had her Shardblade. But unlike Shallan, she never broke her bond and has arguably been progressing continually ever since. Shallan saw all the instances mentioned above, but no one asks her about Jasnah's skills. And Jasnah doesn't show them casually in everyday life, just in life and death situations. Probably prompted by the same ruminations she makes in this chapter: While others are praised for their Radiant skills nowadays, she will probably still be reviled. And here she wonders whether that was the right thing to do, because a 5th ideal Elsecaller might have some advantages over a 3rd ideal(?) Bondsmith.

One strange thing here: it seems logical from the hints that Gavilar saw more about the heralds, yet he says in the prologue: And he didn't recognize Kelek and Nale. Yet they cannot have changed so much in appearance, Jasnah recognizes Taln and Shash from Hoid's drawings. Anyone any ideas how that fits together?

This, and something else: @coolsnow7 founded their argument on Which fits perfectly for Shallan without any strange shenanigans. After killing her mother and her first spren, Shallan lost a lot of memories and her personality was warped by the trauma. She's healed from some of that. In what way do those words mean she's really someone else? And what would be the pieces Chana is supposed to have lost and now found again?

Sorry, I realize now putting it like that must be confusing. I wrote 'Odium's machinations'. What I meant was that the whole Roshar debacle of repeating desolations with all the side effects exists only because of Odium, and before the current desolation started, Shallan was one of few contemporary humans who even as a child was already in the thick of it and suffered from it. Skybreakers, one or more unmade, possibly a herald, and who knows what else influenced her life, traumatizing her, while most people still thought Aharietiam had been the final victory. So in a way, Odium is indirectly responsible for her mental problems, and Adolin will realize this, making his beef with Odium even more personal. That's what I meant and expressed rather poorly.

Honestly: why? i don't remember the exact WoB, but I do remember him saying that readers would get 'some level of closure' after the first 'half arc'. He's always delivered before. Why should it be impossible this time? I trust he will be very well able to do it again.

After reading the new chapters week after week, I have now listened to the audiobook version of all we have so far in one go. And during the last chapter 'Passionspren' I had this discussion in the back of my mind. Let me state one thing clearly: I don't go for any of those theories of doom, at least not in a way that they remain true in the end, no matter what might happen in between. Every single Brandon Sanderson book I've read has left me satisfied with the ending, even if, at the ending of a book that wasn't the end of the series, not everything had been solved yet. But there always was at least a partial victory, and a feeling that things had turned out right. So I don't believe for a second that by the end of WaT, Dalinar will be a Fused or will have killed Adolin or vice versa. Other fantasy authors might do something like that, but Brandon wont. Yet I don't deny that the chapter title 'Passionspren' smells strongly of foreshadowing. The possible conclusion I came up with has already been stated in this thread: Maybe Adolin will have nothing to do with the champion battle. According to the amazon blurb, he'll spend his time in Azimir. But if he does become involved, I am certain he will be on Dalinar's side. His character arc will not lead him to fight against Dalinar, but rather to a reconciliation with his father. Honestly, I think that is what most fans yearn for, and what we will be given. Because most of us very much like both of them. And so that needs to be part of a 'good ending'. So far, Brandon has always delivered. Anything else would be wrong for Maya. Anything else would be wrong for Shallan, who for the first time experiences something like a more or less 'happy family'. Anything else would be SO VERY WRONG for Dalinar and Adolin. In short: If - for some as yet unthinkable reason - Adolin becomes Dalinar's champion, I think it will all work together: his passion against Odium's passion his unique bond to Maya his understanding of Shallan as someone who has been deeply hurt by Odium's machinations his condemning his father somehow turning to understanding TLDR: Either Adolin will have nothing to do with the contest of champions, or he will be Dalinar's champion.

Very interesting idea, and not impossible. I think it unlikely for two reasons: So far, all other epigraph series had something to do with the current timeline. Citations were from texts that were either written or read or translated and published by characters during the current book. The death rattles were collected concurrently with events in WoK etc. In his letter to Frost, Hoid mentions the 17th shard hunting him, which we also see in an interlude in WoK. We haven't seen them for some time. Nowadays... Spoiler for WaT - 'Dyle interlude' from a reading, not yet officially pre-published: Still, it's a possibility to keep in mind.

Thanks, that' something I hadn't seen.

Good suggestions, if it weren't for this: So the person is not on Roshar right now. On the other hand: Frost coming around? When he sees a loopholey contract that might end up freeing Odium, that's certainly a possibility. Good point.

I mentioned this idea in passing on another thread, the moment it came to me, and at the time I thought it rather unlikely. But I think it more likely after mulling it over: I think it's Khriss. At least I think it's either her, or someone we don't know yet. No other known candidate makes sense, in my opinion: Sazed: too new and 'balanced'. Vasher: he would be easily accessible if it were him, so it isn't. Frost: determined on non-intervention. Hoid needs someone who knows more than he does, a tall order. For me, none but the above come to mind as being possibly both willing and able. And we have this WoB: I don't remember seeing any meaningful interaction between Hoid and Khriss on screen. (She might have heard him sing as a bard once or twice on Taldain in WS GN, I don't remember.) But I would guess Hoid became aware of her then, which was way back. I'm sure they know each other now. Whether that relationship is friendly or not I have no way of knowing, but it could be. At least both are, as far as we know and as far as that goes , 'of good intent'. Also, it would make sense from a storytelling point of view: After SH and TLM, the SA has also now become a lot more cosmere-aware than formerly. I think it's a good time to give a well known (to fandom) but as yet little seen great Worldhopper a bigger stage on screen. What do you think? Any WoB's I don't know supporting or contradicting? Scenes between Hoid and Khriss I might have forgotten or never read? Other suggestions?

I totally agree. I think it's foreshadowing in the sense that at this point we readers know nothing about the Silent Gatherers yet, while Taravangian of course knows what he's doing. No. When Shallan supposes Jasnah to have exactly that attitude, Jasnah responds by telling Shallan the world could use a few more rulers like Taravangian. She may not consider him unusually intelligent, but that doesn't stop her from appreciating his style of rule. Again, no. Taravangian was the smartest person on the planet for one single day. Often he is stupid, on this particular day he seems to be about average. I agree with your words but not your meaning. Yes, it is a completely normal conversation between two people who have esteem for one another. Taravangian showcases his friendly nature while Jasnah showcases that her image of being an arrogant intellectual snob is quite wrong.

That just reminded me of how he talked to Nomad in TSM. Whole new worlds to explore there! (Pun intended.)

Things have definitely sped up. Let's have both, please! While Cultivation and Dalinar is a very nice cliffhanger, I also can't wait to see Kaladin and Szeth arriving in Shinovar. I had hoped so much for that today. But now I also want to see the meeting between Cultivation and Wit. Since they're not on speaking terms... will they hiss at one another? Bark? Claw? And whom is Wit going to try and contact, I wonder? Isn't Sazed still too 'new' and also too 'balanced' to be of much help? Vasher is on Roshar, so Wit doesn't consider him to be able to help. Frost made his non-interference clear. So who? Edit: could it be Khriss? Seems unlikely at first glance, but after all, this is in her coppermind description (emphasis mine):

And BAM... here we are. Still anyone finding things moving too slow?

That's a very good argument. The formal 'Kaladin Stormblessed' as opposed to the informal '(just) Szeth' is striking. A historian with little or no familiarity with either would have given both their full names. And who do we know who is familiar with Szeth but not with Kaladin? I reread the epigraphs. I don't think there's anything in them to clearly contradict this. Szeth's whole familiy had been 'given to the honorblades', but we don't know what that meant for a Shin woman. Even if she trained with them just like Szeth did, that wouldn't prevent her from becoming a philosopher or historian. Szeth seems well educated, and using the honorblades brings you in touch with history. The one quote that makes me wonder is: She probably still lives in Shinovar. Even if she met Szeth and Kaladin only after the cleansing*, I would expect there to be more living witnesses. If the cleansing wasn't a genocide, that is. Or was there really nobody else present at the cleansing but the guilty parties and the two avengers [Edit: and Wind and Herald(s), all gone]? Not quite impossible I guess. So, I like this idea. * which would fit with

I guess they just count them beginning with 1 each new year. It would have been the 89th in 1172. It's definitely not Cenn's because the Silent Gatherers don't know about that one. I don't think we readers have seen the sample referenced because none given for 1172 fits. I think 'Note similarity to sample 1172-89.' is just to show that someone tries to interpret the rattles and is going about it in a methodical way. Remember that at that point in the book a first time reader knows nothing about the context yet. Just like foreshadows that whoever is recording those is actually killing the subjects and this subject became aware of it, so what he says is not a death rattle at all. I think the Black Piper is more likely to be an Unmade. It sounds like a typical title like several of them have: Midnight Mother, Black Fisher, Taker of Secrets. (All right, some Fused have those too, but that's very unlikely here.) Maybe it's the one who influenced the Davar family:

This. Also, Sureblood's spren recognized Adolin AFTER they came out of the beads for good. I think that counts as an all-clear.