Probably unpopular opinion about WaT sample chapters

[king of nowhere]

speaking of cultivation, the first time a god delivered a cryptic message because he couldn't act otherwise (preservation) was cool.

the second time (sazed, alloy of law) it was understandable.

the third time (sazed, all other entries) it felt contrived.

now that cultivation joined the club, it's infuriating.

if you have important information to pass, pass them! else, shut up! if you actually want to help, stop dropping hints and tell everone clearly what they should be doing. if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

[+robardin he/him]

6 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

speaking of cultivation, the first time a god delivered a cryptic message because he couldn't act otherwise (preservation) was cool.

the second time (sazed, alloy of law) it was understandable.

the third time (sazed, all other entries) it felt contrived.

now that cultivation joined the club, it's infuriating.

if you have important information to pass, pass them! else, shut up! if you actually want to help, stop dropping hints and tell everone clearly what they should be doing. if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

It's almost like there's some kind of rule that binds the Shards against it!

Not to mention the fact that these stories are about people with human (or at least, mortal) protagonists, not a Game of Gods!

Edited November 18, 2024 by robardin

[+Oltux72 he/him]

15 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

 if you actually want to help, stop dropping hints and tell everone clearly what they should be doing.

If

[king of nowhere]

17 minutes ago, robardin said:

It's almost like there's some kind of rule that binds the Shards against it!

Not to mention the fact that these stories are about people with human (or at least, mortal) protagonists, not a Game of Gods!

that applies to preservation, and to a lesser extent to sazed.

but cultivation, she has no excuses.

besides, while a world full of beings with colossal-though-ill-defined powers where nonetheless the muggle without special skills has to do all the work is a staple of fantasy ever since tolkien invented it in its modern form, i never liked it when it was a new concept, now that it's old I like it even less.

#TomBombadilMustDie

hey, this thread is called "unpopular opinions"

[Returned he/him]

There is a difference between something being justifiable, or even necessary, in-world and something being narratively good. Just because it makes sense for a character to think and plan a lot in advance of a big, high-stakes event doesn't mean that it makes sense for a novel to express every moment of that thinking and planning directly in prose.

For example, in Bands of Mourning there is a section in which Wax and Wayne are planning their method of infiltrating the Set's warehouse and they run through a few options, ultimately settling on "spoiled tomato". It was appropriate for them to plan carefully, and a reasonable amount of time was spent showing that as well as their resources, goals, concerns, etc. If the book had spent two chapters just on the planning and nothing else really advanced, I think that the story would have been worse for it, not better, even though the plan would remain very important.

Everyone likes different amounts of reflection, exposition, introspection, and action from stories. If the relative levels of each are not to your preference in some given work that's OK, but that doesn't make a book bad. My key criterion is whether or not the content advances whatever it's doing: lots of planning, OK, but the plans need to develop along the way-- not just an extended conversation where options are discussed. Lots of action? OK, but it needs to be in service of the greater plot, not just a string of random street brawls with nobodies. Sanderson's recent works have, for me, tilted too hard to the side of exposition: they spend too many words filling in tables in the ars arcanum without accompanying developments for characters and plots. That makes me look askance at sections of recent releases that seem to be dragging on a bit, even when it's not the Bombadil-exposition-dump sort of content. So if characters need to do a lot of planning for something, fine, but anything expressed on the page should be given extra consideration to avoid even the suggestion of stalling or filler. A good portion of my patience and tolerance have already been tapped without being restored, and so there is less of both available going forward. Maybe Wind and Truth will totally refill them, though! Who knows?

As far as Shards being unable to act directly... I am receptive to the idea that there is some in-plot reason for it, fine. But we are in, or at least pretty near to, territory that is violating the spirit of Sanderson's first law of magic. After Oathbringer Shards are too present, too often, and their knowledge and powers too expansive for them to not bring solutions to problems with them. It seems to me to be less "Gandalf has lots of power, but for a variety of reasons can't just use it, and consequently we don't see him use much magic outside of a couple of huge, decisive moments" and much more "well, if the giant eagles just flew them to their destination then there wouldn't be a story".

I appreciate that a lot of details are being held back intentionally for future releases. That's fine, but if current releases are thinner on content just so that later releases might not be it becomes more questionable. If connecting plot points requires gaps that we just accept, and which will be filled in later in (possibly unrelated) releases, I think it's harder to argue that the current releases aren't suffering for that decision-- we just have to accept arbitrary features of the plot and setting because explaining them later might be cooler than explaining them now? There was more mystery about the Cosmere when Way of Kings and Words of Radiance were released than there is now, but I (personally) feel that those books stood better on their own and had superior pacing and narrative elegance than Oathbringer or Rhythm of War. All good books, but I feel like I'm getting less out of each subsequent Cosmere release, and the above points are, I suspect, a big part of why.

Edited November 18, 2024 by Returned

[Ewery1]

7 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

that applies to preservation, and to a lesser extent to sazed.

but cultivation, she has no excuses.

besides, while a world full of beings with colossal-though-ill-defined powers where nonetheless the muggle without special skills has to do all the work is a staple of fantasy ever since tolkien invented it in its modern form, i never liked it when it was a new concept, now that it's old I like it even less.

#TomBombadilMustDie

hey, this thread is called "unpopular opinions"

Biiiiiiig assumption that culti wants to help lol

And honestly same goes for saze at this point

[who_slew_aicirtap she/they]

Aren't the pre-release chapters supposed to be like 1/3 of the book? Maybe it's just the weekly release format, but I feel like nothing that significant has happened yet. Like, Kaladin hasn't done basically anything in his plotline.

[+Child of Hodor]

On 11/18/2024 at 5:51 PM, who_slew_aicirtap said:

Aren't the pre-release chapters supposed to be like 1/3 of the book? Maybe it's just the weekly release format, but I feel like nothing that significant has happened yet. Like, Kaladin hasn't done basically anything in his plotline.

Now, now he heard a voice, got a flute lesson and learned about grass ... yeah, OK he's not really done anything. 

A lot of tantalizing setup so far. Kal and Szeth going into the Unmade controlled temple, Dalinar & Navani in the spiritual realm. Previously unknown godspren like Wind. Moar Visions this time about the Heralds.  Multiple capital cities about to be attacked at once. It's setting up to be awesome once it really gets going.  

[Kfish]

On 11/18/2024 at 3:02 PM, Returned said:

There is a difference between something being justifiable, or even necessary, in-world and something being narratively good. Just because it makes sense for a character to think and plan a lot in advance of a big, high-stakes event doesn't mean that it makes sense for a novel to express every moment of that thinking and planning directly in prose.

For example, in Bands of Mourning there is a section in which Wax and Wayne are planning their method of infiltrating the Set's warehouse and they run through a few options, ultimately settling on "spoiled tomato". It was appropriate for them to plan carefully, and a reasonable amount of time was spent showing that as well as their resources, goals, concerns, etc. If the book had spent two chapters just on the planning and nothing else really advanced, I think that the story would have been worse for it, not better, even though the plan would remain very important.

Everyone likes different amounts of reflection, exposition, introspection, and action from stories. If the relative levels of each are not to your preference in some given work that's OK, but that doesn't make a book bad. My key criterion is whether or not the content advances whatever it's doing: lots of planning, OK, but the plans need to develop along the way-- not just an extended conversation where options are discussed. Lots of action? OK, but it needs to be in service of the greater plot, not just a string of random street brawls with nobodies. Sanderson's recent works have, for me, tilted too hard to the side of exposition: they spend too many words filling in tables in the ars arcanum without accompanying developments for characters and plots. That makes me look askance at sections of recent releases that seem to be dragging on a bit, even when it's not the Bombadil-exposition-dump sort of content. So if characters need to do a lot of planning for something, fine, but anything expressed on the page should be given extra consideration to avoid even the suggestion of stalling or filler. A good portion of my patience and tolerance have already been tapped without being restored, and so there is less of both available going forward. Maybe Wind and Truth will totally refill them, though! Who knows?

As far as Shards being unable to act directly... I am receptive to the idea that there is some in-plot reason for it, fine. But we are in, or at least pretty near to, territory that is violating the spirit of Sanderson's first law of magic. After Oathbringer Shards are too present, too often, and their knowledge and powers too expansive for them to not bring solutions to problems with them. It seems to me to be less "Gandalf has lots of power, but for a variety of reasons can't just use it, and consequently we don't see him use much magic outside of a couple of huge, decisive moments" and much more "well, if the giant eagles just flew them to their destination then there wouldn't be a story".

I appreciate that a lot of details are being held back intentionally for future releases. That's fine, but if current releases are thinner on content just so that later releases might not be it becomes more questionable. If connecting plot points requires gaps that we just accept, and which will be filled in later in (possibly unrelated) releases, I think it's harder to argue that the current releases aren't suffering for that decision-- we just have to accept arbitrary features of the plot and setting because explaining them later might be cooler than explaining them now? There was more mystery about the Cosmere when Way of Kings and Words of Radiance were released than there is now, but I (personally) feel that those books stood better on their own and had superior pacing and narrative elegance than Oathbringer or Rhythm of War. All good books, but I feel like I'm getting less out of each subsequent Cosmere release, and the above points are, I suspect, a big part of why.

I don't understand your point about the Shards and direct action. It has been explicitly spelled out in Oathbringer, Rhythm of War, and these preview chapters at least why the shards take an indirect approach and don't just poof problems away. We don't have all the information to uncover their plans but that is less magic-focused and more Sanderson's style of plotting with large undercurrents in the background.

[VirtuousTraveller]

On 11/18/2024 at 4:02 PM, Returned said:

I appreciate that a lot of details are being held back intentionally for future releases. That's fine, but if current releases are thinner on content just so that later releases might not be it becomes more questionable.

On my reread leading up to WaT, I have felt this way about Shallan more and more.

In WoR we learn her backstory, which is great.  Except it isn't the whole story.

Now in RoW, it's "no, can't think about that right now it's too hard" when it is clearly something related to the plot.  Constantly using the "not right now, I'm too busy/distressed to think thoughts" tool also grows a bit overused.

[Returned he/him]

On 11/20/2024 at 9:50 AM, Kfish said:

I don't understand your point about the Shards and direct action. It has been explicitly spelled out in Oathbringer, Rhythm of War, and these preview chapters at least why the shards take an indirect approach and don't just poof problems away. We don't have all the information to uncover their plans but that is less magic-focused and more Sanderson's style of plotting with large undercurrents in the background.

It's a reference to something Sanderson has said about his approach to writing, dubbed "Sanderson's First Law of Magic":

Quote

Sanderson’s First Law of Magics: An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.

The Shards are on screen pretty often at this point, have expansive knowledge of the present, have arguable degrees of practical knowledge of the future*, have limitless power**, but operate almost exclusively*** in ways that would make Rube Goldberg weep. And while I'm open to there being well thought out, internally consistent reasons that they don't act as directly as series protagonists do, if we don't know what they are then we're back to the reasons seeming like arbitrary decisions to service the plot rather than an application of strictly in-world, consistent rules. I think it's totally fair for people to be satisfied with the explanation so far, I'm just saying that I, personally, am not.

We've also got some less consistent items, like Harmony's dual nature making it hard for him to act (a limitation which doesn't apply to other Shards), Ruin stirring the Ashmounts and directly controlling Inquisitors, Koloss, and Kandra, Autonomy acting pretty directly (Investing an avatar, then smiting her), Odium commanding armies directly and creating immortal servants, Cultivation meddling with people directly and indirectly.

Even if they're not blasting magic directly at their opponents they are deeply involved in events and it's unclear why they stop interacting where they do. "There's a reason, probably" doesn't do it for me at this point in the Cosmere works given how often the Shards are personally on screen and directly involved in events. "Odium risks being vulnerable in some way" didn't stop him with Dominion, Devotion, Ambition, and Honor, so why is it stopping him now?

I'm totally on board with yet-to-be-revealed mysteries defining the limitations but with the Shards being as present in the stories as they now are I think we're overdue for a bit more information on the specific reasons than we've gotten. "Poofing problems away" isn't the only mode of action that would be more direct than what they have demonstrated, and my questions are more around why what they're doing is the most they do, especially given how often they seem to fail in their goals.

*I'm on record, probably often enough to annoy people here, as thinking that futuresight is wildly overrated in the Cosmere. But the general consensus on the 17th Shard is that it's awesome and amazing and effective

**Limitless in the sense that it doesn't run out, and not quite limitless in that it can be used to achieve anything at any time in a one-step process.

*** Complicated plans are fair game, especially given the capacities of Shards. But it's not the only way they act, and (as above) outside of Harmony it's not obvious why they are limited to that.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Returned

[king of nowhere]

3 hours ago, Returned said:

It's a reference to something Sanderson has said about his approach to writing, dubbed "Sanderson's First Law of Magic":

Quote

Sanderson’s First Law of Magics: An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.

The Shards are on screen pretty often at this point, have expansive knowledge of the present, have arguable degrees of practical knowledge of the future*, have limitless power**, but operate almost exclusively*** in ways that would make Rube Goldberg weep. And while I'm open to there being well thought out, internally consistent reasons that they don't act as directly as series protagonists do, if we don't know what they are then we're back to the reasons seeming like arbitrary decisions to service the plot rather than an application of strictly in-world, consistent rules. I think it's totally fair for people to be satisfied with the explanation so far, I'm just saying that I, personally, am not.

 

Thanks for bringing sanderson't first law, I wanted to reference it too.

Because both several radiant powers, as well as most cosmere crossovers, do violate that law.

the thing is that, while individual magics may have internally consistent rules, the more stuff you throw in the mix, the more options there are, until at some point the author can justify pretty much anything.

mistborns could push and pull on bits of metal. book 1 kaladin could fly, make stuff fly, stick stuff together, deflect arrows. limited powers with limited applications, it was fun to read those powers put to creative use, and it was fun to read about protagonists that had to find ways around limitations.

then we have jasnah. she can turn people to smoke. at a distance. or, she can turn the ar around them into something flammable, then ignite it. she can create thermobaric explosions anywhere she can see. her limitation is, mostly, how much investiture she has. which is incredibly arbitrary. sanderson can have her throw thermobaric explosions in one scene, then conveniently take away the ability the next minute, because she just happens to have less light. something we can't really control or predict as readers. her powers are less defined, more vague.

then we have cosmere crossovers, where really everything flies. the feeble old man who had some minor creation/utility power suddenly becomes a giant golem and wastes soldiers. the woman that can make doors in walls suddenly becomes another person and can teleport and shoot lasers from her hands. marsh comes in for one scene, looks cool, then is removed from the story. the god who is intervening enough to power up wayne and explain to him in detail what he needs to do, decides to not intervene enough to create a forcefield around the explosion, or move the bomb to orbit, or something like that.

all those are instances of powers that are not understood by the readers, but are used to solve the plot all the time.

granted, it made for a very compelling read while I was there. but the you reach the end, and you wonder what it was that you just read.

The sunlit man is the perfect example; I was super hyped about it, I devoured it... and then realized it's the story of a superpowered individual who can very conveniently use or not use his power whenever the plot requires, and keeps conveniently getting new powers as the plot requires. It's the only book of sanderson that I didn't feel the slightest inclination to reread.

That stuff works in small amount. Vin drew the mist to defeat the lord ruler, and it was ok, because we all understood there would be a payoff for it. and indeed there was a big payoff.  but if that kind of things keeps happening with no payoff besides the individual scene, it doesn't work.

There's a limit to how often you can pull complete surprises on the reader, before the reader just figures it's pointless trying to follow what you are doing.

[Kfish]

Light is no more a way to make powers vague than metal reserves are - Sanderson just uses it more. The only time metal reserves are an issue is if duralumin is used or they are using Atium. The cameos are an issue since their powers aren't explored enough in the book, though. 

 

They said, i know the law being referenced but I disagree about our level of understanding. If they act directly they risk an opening for the other shard to kill them. Harmony doesn't have another shard to worry about and Ruin only had to worry about preservation. Autonomy knows Harmony is hindered and acted through a proxy (Avatar). Cultivation visited them and acted directly when Odium was still on Braize and restricted in action. 

 

I can agree we don't know exactly where the line is drawn. My biggest example would be Kaladin. Was the connection through Moash needed because that makes it okay for Odium to do without risking his life or was that somehow not considered direct action? Other than that we mainly see them creating things to work for them, talking to people, or subtly pulling strings. It feels a little contrived but going into the book I know that the shards can't just clear the way for our heroes or villains because that direct action would lead to their death unless the individual puts themselves under their power. 

 

 

[king of nowhere]

3 hours ago, Kfish said:

Light is no more a way to make powers vague than metal reserves are - Sanderson just uses it more. The only time metal reserves are an issue is if duralumin is used or they are using Atium. The cameos are an issue since their powers aren't explored enough in the book, though. 

metal reserves don't significantly alter an allomancer's power. if a mistborn has 100 metal vials, he's not any stronger, he still can only flare metals so much. even with duraluminium.

jasnah with 100 times more light can create a thermobaric explosion. kaladin with 100 times more light can lash an object so much as to effectively create a railgun.

some feruchemists have that problem. wax with enough weight can flatten a building by pushing on the nails. wayne is only immortal as long as the plot requires it - i liked a lot how it was handled in the first book, he had a limited storage and we had a rough idea how much healing that was; later books, he just has as much healing as convenient for the story. we could estimate that it takes between one and two weeks of bed rest to gain enough healing to cure a bullet wound, which justifies not having a greater reserve. in later books, it becomes more vague.

and let's not even get into what a steelrunner can do. that skill is way too overpowered. indeed, every single time it was used, brandon had to remove it (sazed running out of speed going to luthadel, then running out of his speed ring fighting marsh. bleeder running out of speed at the beginning of the chase with wax. marasi draining speed from the bands to reach wax in time; nobody in the set, for all their extremely overpowered combination of powers, got a single Feruchemical steel spike); remove it from the heroes, else they just win without any difficulty, and remove it from the villains, else they just kill the heroes.

 

that said, i'm happy there's anti investiture, because it keeps the power of radiants somewhat in check.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

9 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

jasnah with 100 times more light can create a thermobaric explosion. kaladin with 100 times more light can lash an object so much as to effectively create a railgun.

Soulcasters are a ticking bomb with respect to technology anyway. If she wants to soulcast a pebble into pure Einsteinium, she can. All that prevents her is knowing that that element exists.

[king of nowhere]

6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Soulcasters are a ticking bomb with respect to technology anyway. If she wants to soulcast a pebble into pure Einsteinium, she can. All that prevents her is knowing that that element exists.

I am very worried about that, indeed. Jasnah has been shown capable of soulcasting while in the cognitive realm. With the right knowledge, she could create nuclear bombs. 

And they will certainly know how to create nuclear bombs in the space age of the cosmere

Edited November 27, 2024 by king of nowhere

[+Oltux72 he/him]

4 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I am very worried about that, indeed. Jasnah has been shown capable of soulcasting while in the cognitive realm. With the right knowledge, she could create nuclear bombs. 

(Scadrial)

Spoiler

Soulcasters (the people) will face opponents with nuclear weapons. Given the level of technology we have seen on Scadrial, they will get there, unless they intentionally forgo them in favor of harmonium based weapons.

I am afraid if the arcane arts are to remain relevant in the space age of the cosmere, them rivalling or even surpassing nuclear weapons is necessary.

What I find fascinating about Jasnah is her wish to replace herself with an elected official, while her progress on her oaths and strengthening the Knights Radiant creates the nucleus of a theocracy.

[Returned he/him]

20 hours ago, Kfish said:

If they act directly they risk an opening for the other shard to kill them. [...]

Cultivation visited them and acted directly when Odium was still on Braize and restricted in action. [...]

Other than that we mainly see them creating things to work for them, talking to people, or subtly pulling strings.

The bolding is mine, and gets to the main point I'm trying to make. That we mainly see the Shards doing things that comport with the rules as we currently understand them isn't important, because following the rules is what we should expect in a setting where those rules exist, matter, and are internally consistent.

It's when they act in exception to those rules, for no clear reason, and with no consequences, that's a problem. If the rule is that no Shard can ever wear a purple hat, and if they do wear one then they die, it doesn't matter that we have 10,000 pages of Shards never wearing purple hats and continuing to live without any problem. But when there are three or four examples of Shards wearing purple hats with no consequences to them at all, those times are a problem, not any of the others.

Death specifically is not the only consequence that matters to Shards-- the Stormfather describes Odium's reluctance to expose himself as a risk of being hurt (not annihilated). But when,  in Oathbringer, we see things like Odium breaking into the vision in which Dalinar speaks with Venli, Odium is acting directly. Is the rule that he can mess with visions but not reality? Sure, maybe, that sounds reasonable enough to me.

When the Stormfather tries to hold Odium back and Odium hurts the Stormfather, he is acting directly. The Stormfather specifically states that the only reason Odium did not destroy him is that he feared a strike from Cultivation. Is the rule that a Shard can directly hurt a spren, but not kill them? Is that rule only for spren, or could it apply to mortals as well? He hurts Venli in visions, so maybe it's a vision vs. reality thing? Is the difference that the Stormfather has absorbed some of the essence of Honor, making it Shard-to-Shard enough to loosen some restrictions that would otherwise apply? Why is directly hurting fine, but not killing? Are we to balance everything on "risk", where Cultivation may or may not strike, for reasons well established in the setting (if not clearly defined for us) or plot convenience, exploiting our ignorance of plot holes? Is the Stormfather simply wrong?

Cultivation reaches directly into Dalinar's mind and fiddles with his memories at her pleasure. That's direct action. Why is that safe and OK, and why does she not do it more, to, say, Lezian or El? Cultivation makes some pretty radical changes to Lift's body and spirit. Why just her, and not others? Why was she not struck back at by Odium, or are we to fall back on the uncertainty of risk again?

These are the sorts of situations that make me less enthusiastic about the Shardic action that we see; exceptions to the behaviors we should expect based on the rules as presented to us. As I said above, why just this far in just these cases, and not farther or applied in more cases? It's 100% possible that there are highly satisfying, setting-consistent rules that govern all of this and in the fullness of time we'll all love it. But for now the message that is being reinforced more and more often is that the rules we've been told about aren't useful guides to anything we might see or extrapolate in the books, in which case why bother to pay attention to them at all?

One of Sanderson's original claims to fame is the highly detailed and well-defined magic systems which allow for novel applications and satisfying mechanisms and interactions. It's sad, to me, to lose any portion of that for reasons that (at least for now) seem to be driven by plot convenience more than anything else. Others' mileage may vary, but not caring about the exceptions is not the same as those exceptions not existing (or apparently existing) in the first place.

Edited November 27, 2024 by Returned

[AquaRegia he/him]

I cannot refute any part of @Returned's argument.  It's one reason why I refrain from "theories" about how magic systems work, or will be revealed to work in the future; we don't know, and we CAN'T know.  It's based solely on Brandon's imagination, and when we ask him, we get answers like "well, when Shards get involved, some weird things can happen," or "mixing multiple magic systems will produce unexpected results."

I agree it's a little disappointing that what began as satisfyingly hard magic systems have become softer and fuzzier over time.  I try not to let it prevent me from enjoying the stories, and I'm mostly successful.  But it certainly has made me less interested in trying to figure things out in advance, or really even trying to understand the big picture, magically.

[Sedside she/her]

9 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I cannot refute any part of @Returned's argument.  It's one reason why I refrain from "theories" about how magic systems work, or will be revealed to work in the future; we don't know, and we CAN'T know.  It's based solely on Brandon's imagination, and when we ask him, we get answers like "well, when Shards get involved, some weird things can happen," or "mixing multiple magic systems will produce unexpected results."

I agree with you so much on this! It always looked for me like trying to guess what's in the author's head. What also gets me a little frustrated is that the more I read SA, the stronger I feel that I am obliged to read all of the Cosmere to understand the events of SA better. I don't think it's fair. Because the book series is Stormlight Archive, not Cosmere. I personally don't like Mistborn. I don't know, just not my book, I guess. I've tried to read it a couple of years ago, dropped it after several chapters, but this year I've managed to read FE and WoA. I've read several HoA chapters around five weeks ago and I don't feel I want to get back to it. Should I force myself to read it, because of all the Ghostbloods and possible kandra stuff on Roshar? But without the knowledge of Scadrial magic system El and Thaidakar are just "some weird magic stuff" that was not introduced in SA, and looks absolutely out of place and outright frustrating, because there was no way to guess they can happen. As well as the sand, the chickens and whatever else stuff I don't even know about, but it looks weird and unnecessary. Easter eggs taking too much space are annoying, imo.

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, Sedside said:

 Easter eggs taking too much space are annoying, imo.

Those are not easter eggs. It's a full crossover.

And it was brandon's plan all along. He's been sayg he wanted to merge the storylines of the various planets since the beginning.

The result was not as good as it was hoped for, but it's not "attempts at fanservice". On paper, developing the various planets, advancing them technologically, and bringing them together in the space age was an extremely cool concept, and i was hyped - despite disliking all crossovers otherwise; in this case, crossover makes sense. In practice, hard magic stops being hard when there are dozens and dozens of different powers and abilities available.

I guess we have to thank brandon for discovering this. 

Edited November 29, 2024 by king of nowhere

[Sedside she/her]

19 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

And it was brandon's plan all along. He's been sayg he wanted to merge the storylines of the various planets since the beginning.

Oh, so the people who are not interested in the whole Cosmere story (like me) are out? I see. Well, I've already had a premonition that WaT will be the last Sanderson's book I'll read 

[Returned he/him]

14 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I try not to let it prevent me from enjoying the stories, and I'm mostly successful.

Thanks for mentioning this piece. I get too focused on trying to extrapolate and think of my own cool applications of things in media like the Cosmere books, but that's not really what they're meant for. They are stories, they are what they are, and it's probably not 100% fair to demand that they function as both exciting novels and textbooks on the Cosmere as well. Especially when I complain about the times when the books try to do exactly that!

For me, personally, I like having exciting media properties provide fodder for my imagination. I've always imagined my own stories based in the worlds of specific video games, movies, television shows, and books. The Cosmere, especially early Stormlight books, were among the best works ever for that sort of thing. These days, they are less so for me and that makes me a bit sad. But that doesn't make the books any worse, it's a personal thing.

I guess I'm just having trouble shifting gears, as I feel like the degree of attention I used to pay to the details isn't sustainable any more. The details aren't as informative as they used to be, and for dedicated fans (like us Sharders) that can feel almost like we're being punished for making effort to notice and remember them. But I don't think that's fair-- even if it's not as rewarding as it used to be, it's not a punishment.

[king of nowhere]

8 hours ago, Sedside said:

Oh, so the people who are not interested in the whole Cosmere story (like me) are out? I see. Well, I've already had a premonition that WaT will be the last Sanderson's book I'll read 

again, brandon said that he wanted his stories to be readable by someone who don't know the wider cosmere.

which they are, if you don't mind seeing weird stuff and just accepting that "oh, aliens can do that"

[Ewery1]

39 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

again, brandon said that he wanted his stories to be readable by someone who don't know the wider cosmere.

which they are, if you don't mind seeing weird stuff and just accepting that "oh, aliens can do that"

He’s said that since The Lost Metal the gloves are coming off. I don’t think this applies anymore.