Probably unpopular opinion about WaT sample chapters

[+Oltux72 he/him]

17 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

i don't understand what you are saying here.

though thank you for reminding me of raboniel and moash as good (in a narrative sense) villains.

That was badly phrased, I am sorry. The Knights Radiant must grow in power during the books. The system of oaths requires that. Hence people like Sadeas are no longer physical threats. Nor are they good political threats after a year of war tolerance of schemes must have waned. Therefore if we are to have credible villains they must either grow themselves in power or new villains need to be introduced. Amaram going over to Odium's side was barely credible.

So I see the lack of villains, but I don't see a remedy at this point. Sanderson can't keep introducing new villains all the time. He already did that and promptly killed her off. Promoting Taravangian was a good move and what he did to Moash presumably has a deeper meaning. So who is to be the villains in Wind andTruth? I think his error was to effectively waste Venli in the last two books. Rhythm of War turned her into a seduced victim instead of the ruthless scientist who did what she had to do, disregarding taboos and ultimately going too far.

Or are the Ghostbloods to be the villains and the next chapters will see Shallan be beaten spectacularly?

Edited October 11, 2024 by Oltux72
typo

[king of nowhere]

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That was badly phrased, I am sorry. The Knights Radiant must grow in power during the books. The system of oaths requires that. Hence people like Sadeas are no longer physical threats. Nor are they good political threats after a year of war tolerance of schemes must have waned. Therefore if we are to have credible villains they must either grow themselves in power or new villains need to be introduced. Amaram going over to Odium's side was barely credible.

So I see the lack of villains, but I don't see a remedy at this point. Sanderson can't keep introducing new villains all the time. He already did that and promptly killed her off. Promoting Taravangian was a good move and what he did to Moash presumably has a deeper meaning. So who is to be the villains in Wind andTruth? I think his error was to effectively waste Venli in the last two books. Rhythm of War turned her into a seduced victim instead of the ruthless scientist who did what she had to do, disregarding taboos and ultimately going too far.

Or are the Ghostbloods to be the villains and the next chapters will see Shallan be beaten spectacularly?

oh, but i didn't complain about villains getting killed off. though exploding power level is another concern, and i think brandon made radiants too powerful to meaningfully interact with common foes. their super healing, in particular, kills most battle suspence.

i was complaining that too many villains are redeemed too easily, and are revealed to not be all that villainous after all.

though now that i think of it, there's that librarian, and there's venli, and nobody else really; so I should retract that point.
 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

12 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

oh, but i didn't complain about villains getting killed off. though exploding power level is another concern, and i think brandon made radiants too powerful to meaningfully interact with common foes. their super healing, in particular, kills most battle suspence.
 

If the Radiants are to be relevant in an age of automatic rifles, grenades and armored vehicles, they won't be challenged by people with bladed weapons and arrows.

12 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

i was complaining that too many villains are redeemed too easily, and are revealed to not be all that villainous after all.
 

Who was redeemed? I am sorry, but I have to ask. The obvious candidate is Venli, perhaps Leshwi and Raboniel. However, that triggers the main point of Oathbringer. Are the singers villains? I would say they are not. The Stormlight Archive is a war story, not a story of good and evil.

In fact, I would say that Rhythm of War made the fundamental error of making Venli's actions evil instead of just ruthless and desperate.

12 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

though now that i think of it, there's that librarian, and there's venli, and nobody else really; so I should retract that point.
 

The librarian is not a villain. She is a petty bully. Kaladin could have pulled rank and made her suffer for her insolence.

[Rorzikel]

I've been a little unimpressed with the villains but out of how the narrative kicks their legs out from under them. There's a solid string of opponents who follow more or less this process:

Bad Guy introduced as a threatening presence ---> Bad Guy begins to lose any previous characterization in favor of ranting and posturing ---> Bad Guy loses in a way that reveals them as pathetic while the protagonists give one-liners or a monologue ---> Bad Guy screams at the sky as they realize they were fools and then die.

Rinse and repeat.

Basically, they go from Sauron to Skeletor, sometimes in the same book. It's gotten repetitive between Szeth (during his assassin in white storyline), Amaram, Lezian, Gavilar, Rayse, Moash etc. I'm sure our new friend Abidi the Monarch might be joining the club as the latest one-book Fused antagonist.

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, Rorzikel said:

I've been a little unimpressed with the villains but out of how the narrative kicks their legs out from under them. There's a solid string of opponents who follow more or less this process:

Bad Guy introduced as a threatening presence ---> Bad Guy begins to lose any previous characterization in favor of ranting and posturing ---> Bad Guy loses in a way that reveals them as pathetic while the protagonists give one-liners or a monologue ---> Bad Guy screams at the sky as they realize they were fools and then die.

Rinse and repeat.

Basically, they go from Sauron to Skeletor, sometimes in the same book. It's gotten repetitive between Szeth (during his assassin in white storyline), Amaram, Lezian, Gavilar, Rayse, Moash etc. I'm sure our new friend Abidi the Monarch might be joining the club as the latest one-book Fused antagonist.

 

That is certainly true for Lezian. Though in his case I must ask whether this was actually a good move allowing a contrast to Raboniel to show.

But is it true in general? Moash was, no two ways about it, betrayed - again. Arguably so was Gavilar. As far as for screaming at the sky, that is not true.
It is unfortunately true for Venli. It seems to me that you are attributing to the whole pentology what is the issue with Rhythm of War, which is the weakest of them all so far.

[Lacra Maldita]

I think that more than fanservice moments, they are slife of life moments. And that's okay because there will be a lot of drama later. I think there are people who want everything to be Grimdark, and Sanderson is not that kind of writer. I don't think the Syladin is so popular to be considered fanservice, but it has all the build and development to be more than friends/partners. Hopefully Sanderson isn't afraid of success.

[AquaRegia he/him]

On 10/13/2024 at 2:01 AM, Rorzikel said:

... Szeth (during his assassin in white storyline), Amaram, Lezian, Gavilar, Rayse, Moash etc. I'm sure our new friend Abidi the Monarch might be joining the club as the latest one-book Fused antagonist.

This lovely list reminded me that we have neither seen nor heard of El yet in KoWT.  Now I'm a little more excited.

[TINcent he/him]

On 9/5/2024 at 10:02 AM, Bridge Boy said:

Yes this! I find myself losing immersion, and unable to continue to suspend my disbelief given the lack of setting, odd/clunky dialogue, and characters acting like caricatures in contrast to complex fleshed out individuals of WOK & WOR. 

It is becoming more like a super hero comic book in terms of character depth and decision making. I suppose for some that may be a good thing. For me that does not work and feels like a departure from where I thought the series was going based on the first two installments. I expected characters that feel real experiencing fantastical circumstances. 

For me, this feeling started in RoW. While it had it's bright points it no longer made that connection - that feeling of immersion and complexity - that often came easily in Brandons earlier work. Way of Kings was a masterpiece, and as I reread it side by side with the new chapters as they release the difference between the two is overwhelming.

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

12 hours ago, TINcent said:

For me, this feeling started in RoW. While it had it's bright points it no longer made that connection - that feeling of immersion and complexity - that often came easily in Brandons earlier work. Way of Kings was a masterpiece, and as I reread it side by side with the new chapters as they release the difference between the two is overwhelming.

Agreed, WoK I found difficult to put down, same with WoR. Started to slow a bit on Oathbringer, but still a page turner. RoW however I had multiple breaks just because I wasn't as engaged as I had been previously. 

I suppose we could compare it to the Wheel of Time infamous slog. WoT is my all time favourite book series ever, but I can't deny there's a bit of a slump around books 8 and 9. This could be Sanderson's slog, just coming in the series a little earlier.

That being said, I'm already not looking forward to book 6 with Lift as a main POV, just because I personally find her way of speaking/thinking a little un-fitting of a fantasy series, it has a similar feel to Spensa from Skyward, and I find that jarring. 

People out there love Lift however, so book 6 will be a win for them

[king of nowhere]

6 hours ago, Display-Names-Are-Stupid said:

That being said, I'm already not looking forward to book 6 with Lift as a main POV, just because I personally find her way of speaking/thinking a little un-fitting of a fantasy series, it has a similar feel to Spensa from Skyward, and I find that jarring. 

People out there love Lift however, so book 6 will be a win for them

consider, it will be 20 years in the future. lift may get some significant growth in the meanwhile

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

44 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

consider, it will be 20 years in the future. lift may get some significant growth in the meanwhile

Fingers crossed! But seeing how Sanderson's dialogue overall has shifted to a more informal style, I'm not holding out too much hope. And I'm not convinced he's good at charting character growth in Stormlight. He does it well in some characters, but I feel drops it a little in others. Almost like he doesn't know how their personalities work after their growth. 

[Kfish]

11 hours ago, Display-Names-Are-Stupid said:

Fingers crossed! But seeing how Sanderson's dialogue overall has shifted to a more informal style, I'm not holding out too much hope. And I'm not convinced he's good at charting character growth in Stormlight. He does it well in some characters, but I feel drops it a little in others. Almost like he doesn't know how their personalities work after their growth. 

I...don't know that I agree. Honestly, the biggest complaint I hear of Sanderson is the opposite: his characters feel too charted and that can give them a bit of a stilted feel because they are clearly on the arc he plotted years ago and don't have as much room to "live".

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

On 10/26/2024 at 2:20 AM, Kfish said:

I...don't know that I agree. Honestly, the biggest complaint I hear of Sanderson is the opposite: his characters feel too charted and that can give them a bit of a stilted feel because they are clearly on the arc he plotted years ago and don't have as much room to "live".

That's fair, and I definitely can see it in older characters like Dalinar and Navani, but while Kaladin and Shallan have undoubtedly changed, they subsequently feel quite one note and there is almost always a reference to how 'different' they feel etc. As if he needs to keep telling us about it rather than showing.

But that's just my personal feels

[+robardin he/him]

On 9/4/2024 at 12:40 PM, Bridge Boy said:

The whole series has been in steady decline since words of radiance. 

It is as if his outline for the series is still extremely good, and his plot secrets waiting to be revealed at various points of the outline are still exceptional. 

But everything that needs to be written to get from one plot point to the next is utter trash.

The pace is rushed, the dialogue is awful, the characters no longer speak or interact as real people do, and the setting is completely lost. Truth be told, these pre-release chapters have been worse than most fanfic. 

I want it to be otherwise. I want these books to be good, but unfortunately, it is not so. 

Where are Brandon's editors on this? Is there no one willing to speak up and say, "Brandon, mate. This stuff is bad. Lets delay the release and get this done better in a rewrite." 

I absolutely get what you're saying here, and even would agree that it's true to a degree.

But I will add that it's exacerbated, a lot, by reading it piecemeal. These flaws start becoming more pronounced, the fact that it's an "outlined plot" book with character development and dialogue writing sort of filled in like spackle.

It's what gets us the rapid pace of writing/publishing from Sanderson that we do, and it's the only way the entire Cosmere cycle could possibly be written and dome by the time he's 72-ish?, which in turn gives me (at age 53 right now) an outside chance at actually reading the whole thing, LOL.

I had this same reaction to Oathbringer in particular, and less so for Rhythm of War, but for me, both criticisms fell away quite a bit on re-reads. In part because you can skim over rather than dwelling on flaws like that when you're not reading for 15-20 minutes every week, but also because the pacing is more natural to his kind of "Sanderlanche" writing.

[VirtuousTraveller]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:29 PM, Vin(Diesel) said:

I love Brandon Sanderson’s writing. I’ve read everything he’s written, most of it multiple times. I am very excited for the Wind and Truth release.

But the Wind and Truth sample chapters read like Brandon is fan servicing somehow. I’m not sure that’s the right way to put it. Kaladin has a warm moment with his family, cool. Info dump from Wit. We all wanted it. Shallan says another Oath. Check another box on the list of things to make us excited. And now weird Syladin stuff. It seems more like fan fiction to me than like the start of a Stormlight novel. Like it’s just a bunch of stuff we should want all slapped together. 
 

I know, I’m kind of complaining about getting what fans want. But really, it isn’t necessarily what the fans want. We want a novel with these moments, not those moments served us on a cheap platter.

I hope I’m wrong. I hope Wind and Truth will grow on me, and by the end of the book the first chapters will look good in perspective. And I hope I’m not being too negative. Brandon has given us a lot of happiness, and I don’t want to write unfair criticism about his work.

I am avoiding the preview chapters so I can get my reread in before Wind and Truth releases, but this has been my experience with Mistborn too.  It was SO good, and then we get to The Lost Metal, and the humor, the easter eggs, etc all just felt...forced in there for fan service.  That was a real shame, because the plot elements of the story were decent.  But characters like Wayne (who was great early in era 2) and Lift and Design are becoming too cartoon-character-esk to the point of obnoxious at worst, and "I guess I just don't think Brandon is very funny" at best.

Quote

That being said, I'm already not looking forward to book 6 with Lift as a main POV, just because I personally find her way of speaking/thinking a little un-fitting of a fantasy series, it has a similar feel to Spensa from Skyward, and I find that jarring. 

People out there love Lift however, so book 6 will be a win for them 

Ugh yeah.  Starvin' this and ha ha shard fork that get it because pancakes he he 

Edited October 30, 2024 by VirtuousTraveller

[Returned he/him]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

I had this same reaction to Oathbringer in particular, and less so for Rhythm of War, but for me, both criticisms fell away quite a bit on re-reads. In part because you can skim over rather than dwelling on flaws like that when you're not reading for 15-20 minutes every week, but also because the pacing is more natural to his kind of "Sanderlanche" writing.

I felt the same way about those two books (and all of Mistborn era 2 as well): I was disappointed, but subsequent readings were a lot more enjoyable.

I resist reading sample chapters because they lack the context that makes them interesting parts of a great book, and by nature they are either inconsequential (intro chapters that have a lot of recapping and exposition) or hard to interpret (because the events that set them up are not available). I broke on WaT and read the initial sample chapters but am otherwise holding strong for that very reason. I'm too eager for the book for any sample to satisfy me for more than a few minutes at most!

I agree that the quality, specifically polish and craft, have declined in recent Sanderson works but I'm less sanguine about that than many. I want to know the whole Cosmere story, but only because the initial books intrigued me so much. If Sanderson published a wiki-style outline of every major character and event through the rest of the books instead of actually writing the novels we'd get the Cosmere story, but what would be the point? I'd rather see excellent books and never get the finish than have the finish, but have it and everything leading up to be lesser experiences. I think that he's a great writer because his writing has been great, but if the writing starts to suffer then what remains? A more clipped, formulaic style used largely to adhere to an arbitrary schedule suggests a greater focus on business than on art, which can be unfortunate for an artist.

What really bothers me about Sanderson's apparent approach is that he has dedicated increasing amounts of time to fan service, fan management, and being a brand in himself. Interactions with fans are great, and important, including fan-demanded content in books is fine, and I don't begrudge him doing that nor investing his time and effort in promoting his work so that he can be as commercially successful as possible. But if the books are lacking, and more time spent on them might have improved them... well, I'd prefer his time be invested in making the books awesome rather than making the atmosphere around the books awesome with the books themselves just... existing. I don't care about a podcast (not compared to a novel I'll love forever), I don't care about merchandise, I'd rather have none of that than compromise on the novels to have them.

I don't mean to judge his process nor to dictate what someone else must do to satisfy my desires, and Sanderson himself is going to be the best judge of what he needs to do to accomplish his chosen tasks. He's investing a lot of time and work to produce things that I want. And it's unfair to demand that people be constantly inspired on the level of the best work they ever produced. But I truly believe that, if his initial Cosmere novels had the quality and character of his most recent releases, he would not have risen to the level of prominence he currently enjoys. I don't want to end up reading Dragonsteel only because it's coasting on great ideas and great work that all happened thirty years earlier.

Edited October 30, 2024 by Returned

[VirtuousTraveller]

20 minutes ago, Returned said:

What really bothers me about Sanderson's apparent approach is that he has dedicated increasing amounts of time to fan service, fan management, and being a brand in himself. Interactions with fans are great, and important, including fan-demanded content in books is fine, and I don't begrudge him doing that nor investing his time and effort in promoting his work so that he can be as commercially successful as possible. But if the books are lacking, and more time spent on them might have improved them... well, I'd prefer his time be invested in making the books awesome than making the atmosphere around the books awesome with the books themselves just... existing. 

I don't care about a podcast (not compared to a novel I'll love forever), I don't care about merchandise, I'd rather have none of that than compromise on the novels to have them.

AMEN!

[+Child of Hodor]

53 minutes ago, Returned said:

What really bothers me about Sanderson's apparent approach is that he has dedicated increasing amounts of time to fan service, fan management, and being a brand in himself.

Well put. 

I didn't like RoW, TLM or Sunlit Man that much, but it's not really the prose or polish on the writing itself.

With RoW I didn't think the big structural swings he took worked (split flashbacks, having a climax to a book we didn't read in part 1 etc). Overall, it felt like a setup for SA5 more than anything. 

Lost Metal was the conclusion to a series he didn't plan and that's probably why its underwhelming to me. It's a setup for Era 3 and feels like it. I also didn't like that both RoW and TLM had a plot important lab experiment explosion very early on.  

Sunlit Man: Another structural swing with it being one long chase. I never want to hear about Breath Equivalent Units (BEUs for short!) again. He's really leaning into the science of his magic systems more recently.

It reminds me of him ranking fantasy authors on his podcast with Dan Wells and Dan did his ranking based on just what he thinks while Brandon came up with categories and gave numerical values and weights to the categories for each author. He kept saying "I haven't run the numbers on this author" and I kept wanting to yell at him "there are no numbers, you made this all up!!" which is how I feel about the BEU counts in Sunlit Man :).  

All that said I have enjoyed the Wind and Truth sample chapters and don't have any major issues with the writing. I do get annoyed at the week wait in between and it makes the experience a little frustrating, but that's all it is for me. I can always opt out and wait for release. 

[Isilel]

16 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Lost Metal was the conclusion to a series he didn't plan and that's probably why its underwhelming to me.

 

For me, it was the IMHO unnecessary pivot into a world-ending threat and comical incompetence of both the Ghostbloods and the the Set, so that Our Protagonists could super-hero through repetitive combat scenarios in a generic city setting, like in a video game.

While at the same time, much more interesting questions like history of the Bands, South Scadrian cultures, the medallions and the general mysteries of unexplored parts of the planet have been shoved aside in a very contrived manner. 

In fact, I would say that TLM does a pretty poor job of setting up Era 3, by pre-empting what seems to be intended as it's major conflict and depicting people who are pegged to be important in that period as incompetent bumblers.

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

3 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

I am avoiding the preview chapters so I can get my reread in before Wind and Truth releases, but this has been my experience with Mistborn too.  It was SO good, and then we get to The Lost Metal, and the humor, the easter eggs, etc all just felt...forced in there for fan service.  That was a real shame, because the plot elements of the story were decent.  But characters like Wayne (who was great early in era 2) and Lift and Design are becoming too cartoon-character-esk to the point of obnoxious at worst, and "I guess I just don't think Brandon is very funny" at best.

Ugh yeah.  Starvin' this and ha ha shard fork that get it because pancakes he he 

100% agree with the cartoon-y feel you describe. Leans more into an anime feel than serious prose, which I suppose was what he was going for, but I feel it's executed quite in a clunky way when you think about his earlier works. Not that authors can't try new things, but that doesn't mean they will be good at them. I think Sanderson is trying to appeal to everyone, and it comes off feeling like a patchwork quilt. 

[VirtuousTraveller]

19 hours ago, Display-Names-Are-Stupid said:

I think Sanderson is trying to appeal to everyone, and it comes off feeling like a patchwork quilt. 

I almost think it's the opposite.

To be fair, I fully recognize that every group of fans is made up of people from diverse backgrounds, interests, etc, so what doesn't work for me DOESN'T mean it isn't working for SOMEONE.

That said, I feel (and boy I don't want this to hit anyone the wrong way) Sanderson is leaning WAY more into the anime culture versus serious prose.  Mistborn literally rekindled my love of reading almost a decade ago, and I've held up Brandon's work as our generation's Tolken when talking to other people.  That's how well-executed Mistborn Era 1, The Alloy of Law, Stormlight 1 and 2 (arguably even 3), Elantris, Warbreaker, and the cosmere short stories and novellas seemed to be (especially with the interconnectedness of the stories, which didn't feel cheap or gimmicky - it felt like a real mystery I wanted to uncover).

Someone else said it above - while all the merch is "kind of" cool, this "commercialization of the cosmere" is cheapening it, and the stories and characters feel more gimmicky and flat as a result.

I am so grateful to Brandon for inspiring my love for reading, and I've seen him do the same for so many people in my life.  I just hate to see a shift from legitimately quality literature to a very subculture niche that appeals almost exclusively to the quirky and intensely invested fans of this specific author.

This shift is bad for everyone - the subculture suffers from content that is basically just fan fiction (and not well executed fan fiction based on recent work), and the broader reading community suffers from a higher threshold for quirkiness to engage with the work.

I grumble about Lift a lot, and if it was a one off "let's let Brandon cook and see the payoff" example, I wouldn't feel this way.  But reading Edgedancer, watching the quality of Wayne's writing fall in line with the quirky (versus witty), and seeing the chunks of "silly" fan fiction in The Lost Metal (and The Sunlit Man), it's harder to ignore.  And I'd say don't get me started on Design (who is the next iteration of "he he ho ho, laugh see are you laughing because funny ha ha") but:

Quote

According to Brandon, Design is his favorite spren to write because undermining Wit through said spren is its own special flavor of fun.

-WoB # 161 General Reddit 2020 (11/29/20)

So glad we've got more Design in the future (::sarcasmspren appears::).  Oh and Lift is a major character in the back 5 of Stormlight?  Just watch - we're going to see a KICKSTARTER EXCLUSIVE shardfork (which is just a fork, with some etching), Roshar's favorite 10th variety Aunt Gem-Mai-ma pancakes, and straight from the Noodle Pupil syrup that's SO YUMI it'll RAYSE your BEU by it's over 9,000!

(I can say that last bit, because I'm tying this while wearing a Super Saiyan Goku costume today - it's Halloween afterall!)

Brandon, I love you, but it's ok (I say, knowing he'll read this).  I'm not mad, just worried.  The intent of the Shard of Ca-Pi-Talism you're holding is warping your thoughts.  You can sell socks.  You can host conventions.  That's ok - it really is!  But I implore you - don't JUST sell us products - write stories to fill the gaps in our spirit webs and make our collective body of human literature better.

Mike drop.

[king of nowhere]

On 10/30/2024 at 5:45 PM, Child of Hodor said:

It reminds me of him ranking fantasy authors on his podcast with Dan Wells and Dan did his ranking based on just what he thinks while Brandon came up with categories and gave numerical values and weights to the categories for each author. He kept saying "I haven't run the numbers on this author" and I kept wanting to yell at him "there are no numbers, you made this all up!!"

 

fun fact: what you are protesting is called a valutation grid, and i have to deal with them in my job as a teacher. and as i was introduced to them, i had your same reaction: you just made up those numbers, it's not scientific at all.

however, i was explained that it's required to deal with lawyers. apparently, if i say "this examinaton is worth a 5 (which would be a D in american system)" the student's family can appeal to the court and the lawyer can say I pulled the vote out of my ***.

But! if I say "this examination is worth X in this category, Y in this category, and Z in this other category, and all together it averages to a 5", the laywes can't do anything. apparently, if i make up one number, it's deemed arbitrary, while if I make up several numbers, it's deemed objective.

same goes with brandon and dan. but in that particuloar instance, i do believe brandon still was the more objective, because dan was giving marks just on what he thought, and you can't do much worse than that

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

3 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

That said, I feel (and boy I don't want this to hit anyone the wrong way) Sanderson is leaning WAY more into the anime culture versus serious prose.  Mistborn literally rekindled my love of reading almost a decade ago, and I've held up Brandon's work as our generation's Tolken when talking to other people.  That's how well-executed Mistborn Era 1, The Alloy of Law, Stormlight 1 and 2 (arguably even 3), Elantris, Warbreaker, and the cosmere short stories and novellas seemed to be (especially with the interconnectedness of the stories, which didn't feel cheap or gimmicky - it felt like a real mystery I wanted to uncover).

I grumble about Lift a lot, and if it was a one off "let's let Brandon cook and see the payoff" example, I wouldn't feel this way.  But reading Edgedancer, watching the quality of Wayne's writing fall in line with the quirky (versus witty), and seeing the chunks of "silly" fan fiction in The Lost Metal (and The Sunlit Man), it's harder to ignore.  And I'd say don't get me started on Design (who is the next iteration of "he he ho ho, laugh see are you laughing because funny ha ha") but:

So glad we've got more Design in the future (::sarcasmspren appears::).  Oh and Lift is a major character in the back 5 of Stormlight?  Just watch - we're going to see a KICKSTARTER EXCLUSIVE shardfork (which is just a fork, with some etching), Roshar's favorite 10th variety Aunt Gem-Mai-ma pancakes, and straight from the Noodle Pupil syrup that's SO YUMI it'll RAYSE your BEU by it's over 9,000!

It's almost like Mistborn and early Stormlight catfished us into thinking Brandon was like Tolkien or Jordan XD 

I agree with you on the merch. It works for movies and TV shows which are cheaper than books to consume, but we already pay a lot for books, and the physical books themselves are the best merch in my opinion

I loved Wayne in books 1 and 2, but in 3 and 4 it was like Brandon didn't know how to stop himself from leaning into ridiculousness. 

[elihaun]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:20 AM, Master Silver said:

I think you hit it spot on when you discuss the feel of The Way of Kings, and the epic ending of Words of Radiance. In some ways leaving so many mysteries and introducing new ones forced Brandon to do this. On the other hand, with Shallan and Adolin, there was no grand pause, before the chaos. There chapters would have fit much better (in my humble opinion) at the end of Rhythm of War. Part of that would be Shallan swearing two ideals in such close succession would have been unexpected. Then the reveal at the end with army gives us a grand pause (the end of the book). Same thing with Kaladin. His moments of respite are welcomed and needed before the plunge, but having the Rhythm of War end with him and Szeth on the platform ready to take off also lends itself to a grand pause. Kaladin's interaction with Wit, could almost have been in the postlude. Maybe these things would have made RoW worse and made it feel like the book dragged at the end, but it might have made Wind and Truth better. Thoughts?

I think THIS is the thing that is doing it.  The endings/begings of the books should have been pushed forward/back to make the pacing and anticipation between books a bit better.  I am loving the preview chapters, but I will agree they do not feel as 'weighty' as the first book.  Reading through WoK if FEELS like you are on the platoue for years living through the horrors.  THAT is what made the end of the book stand out so much, because it was not about action scene after action scene: it was about one defining moment (one for Kaladin, one for shallan with the assassination attempt).  Oathbringer in comparison has 4-5 of those moments (King Elokhar dieing, the fight at Thelana Fields, the Fight with the nightmother, Taravagian and Odium, etc).  Instead of the whole book leading up to ONE super important life changing scene, you get a bunch of (arguably just as important plot wise) large scenes crammed into one book, removing the LONG buildup for each

 

edit: Its almost like he is trying to cram the entire plot of Wheel of time, with all of its interconnected plots and characters, into 5 books instead of the WoT's 14 books

Edited November 1, 2024 by elihaun

[Sedside she/her]

On 10/31/2024 at 10:16 PM, VirtuousTraveller said:

I grumble about Lift a lot, and if it was a one off "let's let Brandon cook and see the payoff" example, I wouldn't feel this way.  But reading Edgedancer, watching the quality of Wayne's writing fall in line with the quirky (versus witty), and seeing the chunks of "silly" fan fiction in The Lost Metal (and The Sunlit Man), it's harder to ignore. 

And here comes the 29th chapter and the conversation solely about Sigzil being hot, Drehy being hot, Drehy's husband being hot, people farting inside the Tower, and bacteria farting inside Lift. And rust, of course, how could I miss it. I remember Brandon saying that this book had too many words in it and he had to cut it, is this dialogue something I couldn't live without? Do I really have to read this? I have nothing against comic relief, I also have nothing against physiology, as I have a degree in it and I'm basically not squeamish, but I want comic relief to be funny, not cringey. And I'm long ago past the age when simply saying "fart" and "rust" could make me laugh.

Added: Oh, even on this forum this word is censored, but it's not censored in the book. How ironical.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Sedside