Who can beat a shardbearer and keep their shards

[Highprince10 he/him]

What characters in the Cosmere can beat a full shardbearer with dead plate and dead blade without plate or blade.So Kaladin is the only character I think we have seen take out a shardbearer with almost no powers but what other characters could using there powers. The one I can think of is Susebron using a carpet to beat up a shardbearer. (Preferably don't just pick knights radient because they are just upgraded shardbeares and Shards of Adonalsium are also off the table.) 

Edited February 23 by Highprince10

[J. Magi she/her]

1 minute ago, Highprince10 said:

What characters in the Cosmere can beat a full shardbearer with dead plate and dead blade without plate or blade.So Kaladin is the only character I think we have seen take out a shardbearer with almost no powers but what other characters could using there powers. The one I can think of is Susebron using a carpet to beat up a shardbearer. (Preferably don't just pick knights radient because they are just upgraded shardbeares.) 

me 

(jkjkjkjk-- I'm in a silly goody mood)

I would argue probably Kelsier, if he get's to use his alomancy. Vin too, for that matter. They both manage to get through some pretty impossible looking fights with only alomancy and sometimes daggers/swords. No armor. 

[Highprince10 he/him]

3 minutes ago, justice magician said:

sometimes daggers

I agree they would win but I don't think glass daggers are going to do much against shardplate. Mistborn weapons aren't exact made to take down someone in armor.

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

What characters in the Cosmere can beat a full shardbearer with dead plate and dead blade without plate or blade.So Kaladin is the only character I think we have seen take out a shardbearer with almost no powers but what other characters could using there powers. The one I can think of is Susebron using a carpet to beat up a shardbearer. (Preferably don't just pick knights radient because they are just upgraded shardbeares.) 

Your question is poorly phrased, I can answer Sazed/Harmony  

But excluding Shards and all Radiants, Rashek would do that - he's a Fullborn after all. Vin, Elend (he's not as skilled as the rest), Kel, Marsh and Wax would probably find a way to deal with them - just shoot them in the eyes (Kaladin almost did this with no powers and simple throwing daggers). Susebron would do that, but Vasher would beat them even faster without all those Breaths Susebron has (he almost jumped into the arena to help Adolin in WoR - WoB). And if all it takes to kill them is to pierce their eyes, Kenton with his Sand Mastery would win too. Tress would just throw a bunch of Aether spores in their face and that would do the job. Speaking of Aethers, Prasanva would have a chance too, he grows invested Aethers, they would resist Shardblade cuts and he can grow a golem and smash their plate into pieces with his mace. Even with just water at his disposal, he might be able to sneak an Aether spike into their eyes - but that would be much harder for him. And if we're already talking about characters from TLM, then Shai would win too, transforming into Shay-I the Elantrian - basically every Elantrian with some basic combat training will wipe the floor with a Shardbearer.

And of course, any Seer would win if they have enough Atium.

I cannot help but feel that Dalinar the Blackthorn would be up to this task too.

But basically anyone with some form of Invested Art would most likely win. 

[Highprince10 he/him]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Your question is poorly phrased, I can answer Sazed/Harmony  

 

Good point I'll fix that but I don't think Seers would have of a chance because all the Shardbearer has to do is run away untill there atium runs out. I am not sure Elantrian's would be as overpowered as you think shardplate will block a lot of the power of the Dor and it takes a few seconds to draw the symbol and in that time a shardbearer could charge the Elantrian. 

[Immortal Platypus]

20 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

Good point I'll fix that but I don't think Seers would have of a chance because all the Shardbearer has to do is run away untill there atium runs out. I am not sure Elantrian's would be as overpowered as you think shardplate will block a lot of the power of the Dor and it takes a few seconds to draw the symbol and in that time a shardbearer could charge the Elantrian. 

If shardbearers run away, seers stop burning Atium. Elantrians can basically do anything that the other magic systems can do, Shardplate can't stop things like them creating a chasm beneath the bearer or other such things.

[Highprince10 he/him]

5 minutes ago, Immortal Platypus said:

Elantrians can basically do anything that the other magic systems can do

But Elantrians have to know the right symbols to make such a chasm and how big to make it. I am pretty sure the only offensive power Elantrians have used is shooting fire. While they have a lot of access to investiture getting that investure to do what they want is much more complicated. All we know about Elantrians powers is that they have more power than a Feruchemist and are more invested than a Returned. But yea seers can just wait the Shardbearer out. 

[alder24]

50 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

Seers would have of a chance because all the Shardbearer has to do is run away untill there atium runs out.

A Shardbearer would have no idea that a Seer can see the future. And Seers can always stop burning Atium. 

50 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

I am not sure Elantrian's would be as overpowered as you think shardplate will block a lot of the power of the Dor and it takes a few seconds to draw the symbol and in that time a shardbearer could charge the Elantrian. 

Oh, they are very overpowered. Elantrians can replicate any Invested Art in Cosmere. Elantrians can draw Aons faster than you think and there are a few very simple Aons (like Aon Daa) that would devastate a plate. A Shardbearer's eyes are his weak point anyway. They can raise a defensive energy barrier that would protect them from Shardblade's strikes and draw more complicated Aons if needed. Elantrians train their entire, eternal life in using Aons. Elantrians are so dangerous that even Dragons like Xisis fear them. 

Spoiler

VindicationKnight

I know Invested objects and people are harder to effect with magic, but does that also apply to indirect magic, like using Aon Daa to strike someone in Shardplate?

Brandon Sanderson

It all depends on how the magics are trying to interact. In the case you mention, there would be little interference.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 24, 2015)

[J. Magi she/her]

1 hour ago, Highprince10 said:

I agree they would win but I don't think glass daggers are going to do much against shardplate. Mistborn weapons aren't exact made to take down someone in armor.

Oh yeah, that's true. 

Wait does Shardplate technically count as metal? Could a Mistborn push/pull on them? If that's the case then they could just chuck 'em around lol. I feel like that's unlikely though. 

[Treamayne]

9 minutes ago, justice magician said:

Oh yeah, that's true. 

Wait does Shardplate technically count as metal? Could a Mistborn push/pull on them? If that's the case then they could just chuck 'em around lol. I feel like that's unlikely though. 

Investiture resists investiture so it is nearly impossible to Push/Pull on Shards. . . 

However, as Kaladin showed, a skilled Coinshot could easily put a hunk of metal through the visor, eye, and brain. Nothing like a sharpened boxing (or bullet) bouncing around inside your Shard Helm and through all that soft tissue to drop a Shardbearer from a distance. 

Edited February 16 by Treamayne
SPAG

[J. Magi she/her]

2 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Investiture resists investiture so it is nearly impossible to Push/Pull on Shards. . . 

However, as Kaladin showed, a skilled Coinshot could easily put a hunk of metal through the visor, eye, and brain. Nothing like a sharpened boxing (or bullet) bouncing around inside your Shard Helm and through all that soft tissue to drop a Shardbearer from a distance. 

Yeah, I was thinking there was a reason why it wouldn't work that way, thanks. I didn't think about the second point, but that's awesome actually.

[Returned]

56 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

But Elantrians have to know the right symbols to make such a chasm and how big to make it.

Every time you ask about a power comparison on this forum, Elantrian fans will assume that the Elantrian knows everything about AonDor and therefore has Shard-level capacity to do things-- it's always, always, always an Elantrian who is perfectly expert in the AonDor, or at least perfectly expert in accomplishing whatever is beind asked about. Similar to Feruchemy fans assuming that a Feruchemist always has enough attributes stored to do whatever needs doing with no consideration for how difficult that would be to do. They're hard assumptions to justify in a general way, but you'll always see them here regardless 

For the record I do agree that even mediocre Elantrians would wipe the floor with a Shardbearer like you describe, as they don't need that much skill or expertise to overwhelm a Shardbearer's advantages. Any Mistborn could also do it (iron/steel + duralumin could potentially crack or fully break Plate, and if Leeching or Nicrobursting could drain the gems then the armor becomes a serious liability for the Shardbearer, but even pewter + duralumin could potentially destroy a breastplate as long as the Mistborn didn't mind liquifying some of their bones in the process). The right Twinborn, like Wax, could do it pretty easily (enhance mass + push metals to shatter Plate). Any Radiant at least potentially has the tools to do it, one way or another. Most Fused could do it. A good Awakener could do it, as described in other posts.

Honestly, while dead Plate and Blades are amazingly powerful, in the Cosmere they're really only an edge against common soldiers (though a devastating edge, if not quite insurmountable). They're not very flexible in how they can be used and the advantages they grant are fixed and not that hard to overcome when you've got Cosmere magic to draw on. Unless the Shardbearer can win pretty quickly they'll have a hard time keeping up.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 hours ago, Highprince10 said:

What characters in the Cosmere can beat a full shardbearer with dead plate and dead blade without plate or blade.So Kaladin is the only character I think we have seen take out a shardbearer with almost no powers but what other characters could using there powers. The one I can think of is Susebron using a carpet to beat up a shardbearer. (Preferably don't just pick knights radient because they are just upgraded shardbeares and Shards of Adonalsium are also off the table.) 

I think anyone who can exploit the eye slot is in fine shape.  

Awakeners with rope darts that target the eye slit are a good start. 

I bet twinsoul with his jar of dor and the golem would put a beat down on the shard bearer. 

A kandra with an aluminum truebody would be all but immune to the shardblade. 

Any mistborn with atium. 

I would even suggest that Demoux could do it with a bead of atium.

Any feruchemist with enough steel. 

Or any steel ferring on their own with enough stored speed. 

 

Shardbearers in dead plate and blade are awesome tanks with a ton of close area control but all you need to beat them is someone capable of getting to the eye slot.  

 

I don't know if this is confirmed by WOB but I am a strong believer that Kaladin was on stormlight even in that encounter.  Kaladin hadn't spoken the words but his fight has all of the signs of him being perfected by stormlight even if it was only the first signs of it. Saying Kaladin did it without magic is only a thing that can really be said in a POV from a character with no understanding of the system.  

Others that could do it.  I think Wax and Miles / Wayne both have a good shot. Wax because he is a great shot who cam utilize steel lines and pushes to not just crack plate and evade but also to get the eye slit shot. Miles and Wayne because they can tank a shot and stab the eye slit. 

 

If you have accurate ranged option or the ability to blitz the target or the ability to tank a hit or two you will eventually land in the eye slot and kill the shardbearer 

[Immortal Platypus]

1 hour ago, Highprince10 said:

But Elantrians have to know the right symbols to make such a chasm and how big to make it. I am pretty sure the only offensive power Elantrians have used is shooting fire. While they have a lot of access to investiture getting that investure to do what they want is much more complicated. All we know about Elantrians powers is that they have more power than a Feruchemist and are more invested than a Returned. But yea seers can just wait the Shardbearer out. 

not really. they could probably just do "break" or something like that. Elantrians are very powerful

55 minutes ago, alder24 said:

A Shardbearer would have no idea that a Seer can see the future. And Seers can always stop burning Atium. 

Oh, they are very overpowered. Elantrians can replicate any Invested Art in Cosmere. Elantrians can draw Aons faster than you think and there are a few very simple Aons (like Aon Daa) that would devastate a plate. A Shardbearer's eyes are his weak point anyway. They can raise a defensive energy barrier that would protect them from Shardblade's strikes and draw more complicated Aons if needed. Elantrians train their entire, eternal life in using Aons. Elantrians are so dangerous that even Dragons like Xisis fear them. 

  Hide contents

VindicationKnight

I know Invested objects and people are harder to effect with magic, but does that also apply to indirect magic, like using Aon Daa to strike someone in Shardplate?

Brandon Sanderson

It all depends on how the magics are trying to interact. In the case you mention, there would be little interference.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 24, 2015)

to be entirely fair, we were talking about Shai the Elantrian, who probably doesn't know the super complicated Aons, but she might.

Edited February 16 by Immortal Platypus

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Im my opinion any invested art is going to easily be able to take down someone bearing dead shards, with the exception of what we see in TSM (though to be fair that isnt fully explored). 

 

Now as for Radiants with plate and blade, I think the only thing that could truly match up would be a fullborn. 

 

If we are assuming that amount of investiture is not an issue (infinite stormlight / metals) I think Kaladin could easily handle any of the other characters we have seen other than a fullborn. To be honest, a fullborn is the most OP in the cosmere that we have seen (disregarding special cases like dawnshards). Infinite healing, speed, strength, mental capacity, mass, and boosted allomancy - a fullborn could probably one shot a Radiant. 

 

I hope that we get the Radiant equivalent of fullborn but as it stands currently a fullborn would wipe the floor with any other invested art / character we have seen. 

 

 

[Spearguy]

I'm going to be a bit more interesting and not talk about individuals who are overwhelmingly powerful more individuals with little or weak powers. 

I'd say that Vasher or another immortal who's had centuries of practice at swordfighting could do it without an immense amount of trouble. So that would include all of the heralds, Vasher like I mentioned, Arsteel, and Denth. I also think some of the more exceptional users of the metallic arts that aren't mistborn/feruchemists/fullborn could have a decent chance if given a good understanding of how shardplates and shardblades work. Wax could probably either shoot through the eye slits or more likely get enough shots onto a single section to shatter it then shoot the shardbearer. I also think that Spook as he was during Hero of Ages could possibly pull it off, though more due to him being able to avoid getting hit long enough after cracking a section that the shardplate could seize up.    

[therunner he/him]

I'll make a couple of points:

• Eyeslit can be closed even on deadplate, Adolin does so in WoR. So anyone relying on it being present has little chance of killing Shardbearer
  • that excludes weaker Awakeners, Tress, or Seers
• Shardbearer is at minimum 10x stronger than adult human, and is faster than a horse (so possibly faster than Mistborn or Wax). It also improves agility, dexterity and reflexes.
  • so the only people who could go toe-to-toe with Shardplate in close quarters are F-Steel ferrings, Fullborn and Aether Golem (though that relies on having access to seemingly rather rare resource). Everyone else is either weaker, or slower or both.
  • Heralds and Returned would be also among those who could do it, as they are simply far beyond in skill and also have enhanced reflexes.

So in close quarters Fullborn, F-steel ferring (with large stores), Herald or Returned would have a chance. Seers won't get hit, but they have little ways of doing any meaningful damage with visor closed.

From long range, the attacker has to be able to maintain distance. That means better mobility than Shardbearer. That would be Elantrians, and possibly Mistborn/Coinshots (depending on the terrain). These would have also have ability to damage the plate, though Coinshot would require powerful gun, as they don't have access to Duralumin.

I don't think anyone else could do it, not unless the situation is intentionally stacked in their favor.

Theoretically a regular human with a machine gun and enough ammo in a secure location could do it, but that is stacking the deck in favor of the attacker quite a lot

Edited February 17 by therunner

[alder24]

2 hours ago, therunner said:

Eyeslit can be closed even on deadplate, Adolin does so in WoR. So anyone relying on it being present has little chance of killing Shardbearer

Please provide a quote because I could not find one. I couldn't even find that part you're talking about.

A Shardplate's helmet is made out of 2 parts - main body helmet and a visor - a faceplate - which opens up and uncovers the whole face, just like in classical medieval knight's helmets. That's what Shardbearers open or close. But that faceplate has an eye slit in it which CAN'T be closed in dead plates. Repeatedly throughout WoK and WoR it was said that the eye slit is the most vulnerable part of a Shardbearer, it was shows Dalinar and Adolin raising their hands to protect their eye slits from arrow volleys. I don't remember an eye slit on a dead plate being closed fully as you suggest - that's what can be done with a living plate, that's what Jasnah did in RoW.

WoK ch 13:

Quote

“Hold back, Your Majesty,” Dalinar called, riding past. “Wait until Adolin and I weaken it.” Dalinar reached up, slamming down his own visor. The sides misted, locking it into place, and the sides of the helm became translucent to him. You still needed the eye slit —looking through the sides was like looking through dirty glass— but the translucence was one of the most wonderful parts of Shardplate.
[...]
Arrows rained down, bouncing of the carapace and becoming more deadly to the troops below than they were to the chasmfiend. Dalinar raised his free arm to shade his eye slit as an arrow clanged o his helm.

WoK ch 26:

Quote

The energy of the armor pulsed through Dalinar as he dashed across the stone ground, arms pumping in rhythm with his steps. The wave of arrows came immediately, loosed from the Parshendi kneeling on the other side of the chasm. Dalinar flung his arm up in front of his eye slit as arrows sprayed across him, scraping metal, some shafts snapping. It felt like running against a hailstorm.

WoK ch 47:

Quote

Every suit of armor had a chink. Every man had a flaw. Kaladin thought he saw the man’s eyes through the helm’s slit. That slit was just big enough for a dagger, but the throw would have to be perfect. He’d have to be close. Deadly close.

WoR ch 57:

Quote

Three would obviously be too much for him. Kaladin needed to keep Relis distracted. But how? He couldn’t get through that Plate with a spear. The only weak points were the eye slit and the small crack on the vambrace

WoR ch 81:

Quote

The world lurched, and Adolin found himself skidding on the ground, his Shardplate grinding against stones. The armor absorbed the blow of the fall, but could do nothing for Adolin’s own shock. The world spun, and a spray of water spurted in through the slits in his helm, washing over his face.

The only thing Adolin's helmet did was darken the translucency of it when lightnings were to bright, but that could be an effect of direct lightning hit which blackened his helmet from the outside - but it sounds like the helmet darkened that on its own because of this perfect overlay:

Quote

Lightning flashed right at Adolin.
The sound was incredible, and the light. He stood in place, blinded. When it faded, he found himself completely unharmed. He looked down at the armor, which was vibrating softly—a hum that rattled his skin in a strangely comforting way. Nearby, another crack of lightning left a small group of Parshendi, but it didn’t blind him. His helm—which as always was partially translucent from the inside—darkened in a jagged streak, perfectly overlaying the lightning

 

Spoiler

 

2 hours ago, therunner said:

These would have also have ability to damage the plate, though Coinshot would require powerful gun, as they don't have access to Duralumin.

I want to point out that you don't have to do enough damage to the plate to destroy a segment of it, you just need to crack it. Slingshots can do that. If you crack a plate, Stormlight starts to leak out, if you do that to every segment, that plate will eventually lose all its light and lock the Shardbearer with little to no mobility. That's an easy kill. Adolin defeated one of his opponents using this tactic in WoR. 

Edited February 17 by alder24

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Please provide a quote because I could not find one. I couldn't even find that part you're talking about.

A Shardplate's helmet is made out of 2 parts - main body helmet and a visor - a faceplate - which opens up and uncovers the whole face, just like in classical medieval knight's helmets. That's what Shardbearers open or close. But that faceplate has an eye slit in it which CAN'T be closed in dead plates. Repeatedly throughout WoK and WoR it was said that the eye slit is the most vulnerable part of a Shardbearer, it was shows Dalinar and Adolin raising their hands to protect their eye slits from arrow volleys. I don't remember an eye slit on a dead plate being closed fully as you suggest - that's what can be done with a living plate, that's what Jasnah did in RoW.

WoK ch 13:

WoK ch 26:

WoK ch 47:

WoR ch 57:

WoR ch 81:

The only thing Adolin's helmet did was darken the translucency of it when lightnings were to bright, but that could be an effect of direct lightning hit which blackened his helmet from the outside - but it sounds like the helmet darkened that on its own because of this perfect overlay:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I want to point out that you don't have to do enough damage to the plate to destroy a segment of it, you just need to crack it. Slingshots can do that. If you crack a plate, Stormlight starts to leak out, if you do that to every segment, that plate will eventually lose all its light and lock the Shardbearer with little to no mobility. That's an easy kill. Adolin defeated one of his opponents using this tactic in WoR. 

Honestly I always believed that was a part of living plate as well given that living plate could become completely translucent and the spren would be alive to cover the slit and then be translucent.  

By far my least favorite portion of any magic system... take someone who can nearly instantly heal though anything and then give them a space suit capable of surviving being crushed by a mountain. And it can be invisible.  

Plus I am pretty sure Kaladin would have been killed book 1 if the dead plate didn't have a dagger sized slot to fit through. To say dead plate can seal off the eye slit also points to a huge plot hole for why Kaladin is even alive still. Brandon was careful to point out that the Spearman couldn't hurt the plate on his own and he would have to exploit the one weakness in shardplate. If that can suddenly be shut then we are to believe that Helaran chose not to shut it out of pride taunting the Spearman?  Or he was just a complete idiot?  

I would guess that anyone who had shardplate would choose to close up their only weakness when fighting someone... especially after that someone had already targeted that weakness and failed. 

[Duxredux he/him]

25 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Plus I am pretty sure Kaladin would have been killed book 1 if the dead plate didn't have a dagger sized slot to fit through. To say dead plate can seal off the eye slit also points to a huge plot hole for why Kaladin is even alive still. Brandon was careful to point out that the Spearman couldn't hurt the plate on his own and he would have to exploit the one weakness in shardplate. If that can suddenly be shut then we are to believe that Helaran chose not to shut it out of pride taunting the Spearman?  Or he was just a complete idiot?  

I would guess that anyone who had shardplate would choose to close up their only weakness when fighting someone... especially after that someone had already targeted that weakness and failed. 

Well... regardless, all Shardbearers have something to block off their eye slit from projectile attacks. It's called a "forearm". It's a tradeoff in close combat situations. In Helaran's defense, he wasn't trained from childhood by the sword masters of Alethkar at the Shattered Plains.

 

The more I look at these threads the more I view it as the community betting odds for a gladiator colosseum fight because fights just don't develop as is often described in the back and forth debate. Saying things like "a Shardbearer can just run away from a Seer" is implying a degree of knowledge that just doesn't happen organically in a fight. You don't look at an ordinary person, conclude that they have precognition and thus the person in power armor should run away. There's a learning curve to every new significantly different opponent and unless they've specifically trained for it and have insider information, they won't fight optimally. It's not uncommon for soldiers who have heard stories of Shardbearers their entire time in the army but never seen one to freeze and just stare at the gloriously beautiful warrior mowing down their comrades until they die. If a Shardbearer started strolling down the streets of Elendel you'd better believe people are going to stop and stare.

Knowing the strengths and limitations of a Shardbearer is essential to fighting them. You don't expect someone wearing that much heavy armor to take longer to get tired than someone not wearing it. You don't expect someone in full armor to make huge jumps or climb cliffs. The fact that Plate looks like metal but cracks and shatters is not intuitive. A Shardblade's motion through living or non-living matter is not intuitive either, or that it is summonable and throwable.

The Shardbearer pretty much has three options. Chase down their target, throw their Blade, or use their terrain to their advantage by throwing stuff. Wax would have interesting problems with something charging down the street throwing cars at him. Due to the simplicity of their options, it's a lot more straightforward from the Shardbearer side and the speed and momentum they can bring to the fight likely can overwhelm many opponents during the first few minutes of the learning curve, particularly as Shardbearers are taught to trust in their armor to protect them. That is, if the Shardbearer decides they need someone dead.

So... I'd say that it depends on how much the opponent knows, their mobility to survive the first minutes of the learning curve, or if they can just overwhelm a Shardbearer regardless. Even a relatively normal and skilled soldier like Kaladin got a lot of mileage by knowing how Shardbearers worked, looking like a relatively unthreatening normal spearman, and capitalizing on distractions. Rosharans and significant visitors like Denth or Vasher may have that knowledge, but others won't.

[Returned]

8 hours ago, therunner said:

• so the only people who could go toe-to-toe with Shardplate in close quarters are F-Steel ferrings, Fullborn and Aether Golem (though that relies on having access to seemingly rather rare resource). Everyone else is either weaker, or slower or both.
• Heralds and Returned would be also among those who could do it, as they are simply far beyond in skill and also have enhanced reflexes.

I don't know if I'd be so absolute about it. I'll agree about the specific advantages of Shardplate over most people, but it does happen that more ordinary people kill Shardbearers. Dalinar defeats soldiers in Plate without any of his own twice (though he does have to use gimmicks to do so, it remains an option; a "fair fight" is not one of the conditions in the OP). I mean, I still know which way I'd bet in a fight between a Shardbearer and a Forger, for example, but the advantages of Plate aren't quite insurmountable.

 

[therunner he/him]

On 2/17/2024 at 1:14 PM, alder24 said:

The only thing Adolin's helmet did was darken the translucency of it when lightnings were to bright, but that could be an effect of direct lightning hit which blackened his helmet from the outside - but it sounds like the helmet darkened that on its own because of this perfect overlay

Yes, but since the lighting strike was in his field of view, either the eye slit is so small he was not blinded it, or the eyeslit was not there.
I don't have the book on hand, but I will check it.

Quote

I want to point out that you don't have to do enough damage to the plate to destroy a segment of it, you just need to crack it. Slingshots can do that. If you crack a plate, Stormlight starts to leak out, if you do that to every segment, that plate will eventually lose all its light and lock the Shardbearer with little to no mobility. That's an easy kill. Adolin defeated one of his opponents using this tactic in WoR. 

Slingshots wielded by Warform, throwing stones the size of human head. I.e. slinghots wielded by someone comparable to Pewter arm.
And even then it did only very small cracks, which healed rather fast.

And Adolin had Shardplate and Blade of his own, so not really applicable example.

On 2/17/2024 at 7:03 PM, Returned said:

I don't know if I'd be so absolute about it. I'll agree about the specific advantages of Shardplate over most people, but it does happen that more ordinary people kill Shardbearers. Dalinar defeats soldiers in Plate without any of his own twice (though he does have to use gimmicks to do so, it remains an option; a "fair fight" is not one of the conditions in the OP). I mean, I still know which way I'd bet in a fight between a Shardbearer and a Forger, for example, but the advantages of Plate aren't quite insurmountable.

The only person to defeat Shardbearer with both Plate and Blade without any is Kaladin, and he quite possibly already had some small passive enhancements.

Dalinar won his Plate, but we don't have any details. And that time he was working with his handpicked guard, so they probably played role. 
When wining his blade, he was wearing his Plate and had "Shardhammer".

So Kaladin is still the only person to defeat Shardbearer without either supporting team, or Shardplate of his own.

Plate and Blade is absolutely gigantic advantage against anyone without it, unless they have some Invested Art to circumvent it, or to straight up overpower it.

[alder24]

2 hours ago, therunner said:

Yes, but since the lighting strike was in his field of view, either the eye slit is so small he was not blinded it, or the eyeslit was not there.

The eye slit was there because moments before that his horse was killed and water splashed into his face through that open eye slit. About the lightning, look at the quote again - the first lightning was directed at him and that blinded him, the second lightning was fired "nearby" from "another group of Parshendi'' when he was "looking down at his armor," which suggest it happened to the side of Adolin (he was leading the charge on Parshendi lines, he was at the very front of Alethi lines) - that means the lightning was visible to him through the translucent sides of his helmet, not the front, not through the eye slit directly. 

2 hours ago, therunner said:

Slingshots wielded by Warform, throwing stones the size of human head. I.e. slinghots wielded by someone comparable to Pewter arm.
And even then it did only very small cracks, which healed rather fast.

And that's what we're talking about, isn't it? About other people who can fight against a Shardbearer? So yes, a Pewterarm can do. There are others who have access to invested arts that could find a way to throw stuff with more strength than a normal human arm is capable of, thus that tactic is very valid to use. It's ever a standard tactic for normal people to use hammers against a Shardbearer - you don't need to be a Warform to do that.

Dead plates don't heal in combat. It takes a significant amount of time and Stormlight for a plate to heal. So big that after the Battle of the Tower Dalinar and Adolin had to use Stormlight that all of their 2653 men were carrying and that still wasn't enough to fully heal only one of their plates. Dead plates don't regenerate during a fight. WoK ch 69:

Quote

For now, he wore Adolin’s [gauntlet]. They had collected all of the infused gemstones among his twenty-six hundred men and used that Stormlight to recharge and reinforce his armor. It was still scarred with cracks. Healing as much damage as it had sustained would take days, but the Plate was in ghting shape again, if it came to that.

[Colors]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:10 AM, Highprince10 said:

I agree they would win but I don't think glass daggers are going to do much against shardplate. Mistborn weapons aren't exact made to take down someone in armor.

The daggers probably are a longshot, but we've seen Vin wield a 6-foot long Koloss sword and use an iron gate as a flail...so she or Kelsier would have other options.

Just about any character with a fair amount of skill in an invested art would have a chance, but as others have already stated it's going to come down to how fast the opponent can learn and how long they can avoid through mobility or defensive measures.

Edited February 20 by Colors

[Longshot97 he/him]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:48 AM, therunner said:

Plate and Blade is absolutely gigantic advantage against anyone without it, unless they have some Invested Art to circumvent it, or to straight up overpower it.

Which is fair. I mean, Plate and Blade are both metallic manifestations of Investiture---in other words, literal God Metals. They also require a source of Investiture as power. It's not unreasonable to have an opponent equipped with similar resources.

I wonder if an easy way to view these sort of "Who Would Win" scenarios is relative access to Investiture. Let's explore that.

Shardplate and Shardblade

Just a metric ton of metallic Investiture, famously enough to resist Allomantic influence. The presence of gemstones infused with gaseous Investiture also helps their case.

So, who would have access to comparable levels of Investiture, and would they be a good match?

Elantrians

Access to way more Investiture in the right circumstances, and even outside those circumstances (at least theoretically). Versatility is also a factor. Elantrians have no direct improvements to durability or strength, but this can be overcome.

Conclusion: Can and will mop the floor with Shardbearers. Bit of a glass cannon, but no contest really.

Mistborn

Less overall Investiture, but access to highly dangerous flavors of it. Not nearly as much of a glass cannon, though little helps against a Shardblade.

Conclusion: Skill and environment depending, a Mistborn would at least pose a challenge.

Full Feruchemist

No directly offensive forms of Investiture. Against an opponent in strength-and-speed-boosting armor, as well as a sword that cuts through anything, I think Feruchemists would struggle. Maybe with enough Investiture, they could survive, but finding ways of winning would be a test of ingenuity.

Conclusion: Potential access to comparable levels of Investiture. At comparable levels, has a greater chance of victory. Otherwise, chances of survival are improved.

Fullborn

No contest.

Conclusion: No.

Awakeners

Suffer from a lack of bodily enhancements. Awakened material could easily be destroyed by a Shardblade, and it would take a lot of force to shatter Shardplate. This is where comparable levels of Investiture again plays a role. The God King, for example, easily outstrips any Shardbearer, and would emerge victorious without breaking a sweat.

Conclusion: How much Breath?

Sand Masters

Hmm... Sand Masters don't technically have much Investiture. However, measuring the amount of Invested sand they have on hand, as well on their innate capacity for Sand Mastery, may suffice in this regard.

Conclusion: More raw power, more likely to survive. Skill obviously plays a role, but raw force is necessary to shatter Plate. However, the eyeslits do exist.