BT4: Aftermath - Memories of Spring

[Kasimir he/him]

Aftermath: Memories of Spring

Night fell on the village of Helgen, with the gentle rain and the soft mist.

Blood splattered across the cobblestones; old Sargon, dead at last, and the travelling gleewoman, Kalenir, who had named herself Osan'gar.

She had offered to use the endless time loop, the bubble of Evil, to turn each and every last villager within Helgen into a shadowspawn of their choosing, and had hesitated, surprised, when the Village Wisdom, Bladdar, had screeched about not having enough time for this because he had to go take a piss and whacked her over the top of the head with a club.

This had started the frenzy as the villagers of Helgen descended on Kalenir and old Sargon both, beating them to death.

Blood on the cobblestones; mingling with the rain.

The mist crept on in, as it always did, promising oblivion, promising absolution from the misdeeds of the day.

 

 

In the morning, the sun rose on the village of Helgen.

Overnight, the rain had turned into a gentle coating of snow, blanketing the street and thatched roofs. The air was crisp, cool and clear, with the green scent of pine boughs and the promise of Swovan Night and feasting to come.

You stare at each other, amazed and barely able to believe it.

The Forsaken is dead. Helgen is saved. 

For now. Always for now, for there are no permanent endings, not as the Wheel of Time turns.

As the crisp winds swept across the village green, they brought with them the memories of spring.

Spring, a time for joy and new beginnings.

The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

 

 

Quote

Devotary of Spontaneity (5): Aeoryi, Archer, Haelbarde, JNV, The Wandering Wizard
Haelbarde (1): Devotary of Spontaneity
JNV (1): Matrim's Dice
No Exe (1): Raven

Kalenir / Devotary of Spontaneity was exed! She was the Forsaken! The Villagers of Helgen have won! 

Thanks to everyone who signed up to help Drake and myself test this thing! Thanks to @StrikerEZ for being the group slacker with me, and @DrakeMarshall for being the cool GMing bro. BT4Gangchat best chat  

Please do not post in this thread until the second post is up.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Kasimir

[Kasimir he/him]

Archives

Spoiler

• GM Mastersheet
• Spec Doc

Player List

Spoiler

1. @The Wandering Wizard - Watchman
2. @Aeoryi - Gossip/Thief-Taker
3. @JNV - Apothecary
4. @Mat - Innkeeper
5. @TheRavenHasLanded - Revir Veteran
6. @Devotary of Spontaneity - Kalenir Forsaken
7. @Haelbarde - Mazrim Taim Elder
8. @Archer - Bladdar Scammer Wisdom

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Kasimir

[Haelbarde he/him]

This was super fun! Thanks for running! And well done everyone. Your early choices to sow chaos Mat were great, and if not for Archer's bold lie that helped direct everyone to Devo I reckon you might have had the game. And nicely played Archer.

The uncertainty in all the information was doing my head in >> but it made for a wonderful puzzle. Feels like there's stuff to tweak, and I'd be curious how it'd fair at double the player count, but seems quite workable a ruleset.

[Aeoryi she/her]

Uh okay thoughts:

1. I wish the game was longer sort of. I agree it was fun, but realllly short. 
2. I'm also pretty sure the d1 mass claim worked really well in terms of the village.
3. I agree with hael that it made for a pretty interesting puzzle. 
4. I feel like devo got fairly unlucky with the scans (like my nice devo is village devo is forsaken scan that I thought was useless). 
5. The pattern degradation was pretty cool imo and I liked the uncertainty around the scans.
6. Also speaking of which, there was a lot of game elements that relied on luck. Pattern degradation, drunk false information, gm facts, and a bit more things. Normally, it'd be fine, but due to the finite length of the game rng is going to play a big role.
7. I really enjoyed this game altogether.

And yes I have to give the credit to hael how did you solve the puzzle so quickly

And quokka read the rules described pretty well how the game went for me

[Kasimir he/him]

After-Action Report

I'll be posting mine, Drake has his own thoughts which he will be offering. Before I do that, Drake and I would like to thank everyone for participating and request feedback. The point of a BT is to testdrive weird mech for use in a proper game. We have our thoughts on this, biut would also like to hear yours.

To be upfront, we were testing a Leviathan type ruleset, where the timeloop hamstrung the exe, but also required Villagers to be more careful about what they wanted to push and what they didn't, due to the time limit.

• Balance/Distro

Drake and I felt the game ended up being a tad V!sided in practice, but not overly so. This I think is counterintuitive because to most players, the ruleset appeared E!sided, and both Drake and I had concerns about whether X was enough - Drake's back-of-the-napkin models suggested even two cycles would've been fine, which bears out here in practice. We hesitated a bit about whether to go for X=3 or X=4, but X=3 felt like a decent choice in the end, given how it played out.

We probably could've dialled back on the info roles just a bit. Even with Pattern degradation, drunkenness, and poisoning in play, players still treated info results as prima facie plausible and used them to guide reasoning. This functionally meant that all the sources of uncertainty ended up having a small net effect. This matches with Drake's and my experience elsewhere, but is also a good thing!  This means players do not trust scans blindly, and probably shouldn't anyway.

RNGesus really had it out for the Elims there, with Aeo's D1 scan actually being very rough for them, but in general, it wasn't overly so - that same Day, Archer was considering asking if Devo was the Forsaken, meaning that what really drove the Village was some solid play with regard to their roles.

• Overall Patches/Thoughts

1. Something Devo and I differed about in Committee was whether duplicate roles were permissable. Devo was of the view they shouldn't be; I was concerned as I felt the Elims just didn't have that much space to hide in, and LG92 demonstrated that Elims generally struggled with the pressures of massclaim environments. At some level, the stakes of the ruling was about either setting a high bar for the Elims to match up to or die, or taking away one sort of tactic (ccing) from the Village. I do think it's interesting that Devo and I have swapped positions after this game: I think the 'no duplicates but Forsaken knows one role not in the game' ruling is fine; Devo is reconsidering no duplicates. I'm not sure but FWIW think allowing duplicates is fine too.

2. I didn't like Raven getting blocked for declaring his shot, which he had to do. A really easy patch of Raven's role was to make it a Day shot instead of Night. That way, the Veteran can still be shut down at Night and the next Day, but can't be shut down just by declaring the shot. Actually, Raven's role was meant to be a Day vig all along. Not swapping it back to Day shooting was a mistake because the game starting on a Night was a last-minute change.

3. The Watchman is particularly cursed to make drunk. Drake thought of a better patch but by that time, Wiz had received results, so we felt it was better not to go there at all. The solution here is to roll category, then RNG for a player not in that category each time. See spec doc for more explanation.

4. I'd like to make Gossip less swingy if I could. With facts being randed across four categories (targeted/targeting/alignment/role), it's harsh for Devo as she has a 1/2 chance of being sussed, and a 1/4 chance of being identified as the Forsaken, even with the shelter of one false fact and one true. As it's rough to find other facts within the context of a forum game, I'm considering making the Gossip act once every two cycles, or something. Not sure. Interested in recommendations here.

5. Pattern degradation didn't really play that big a role in causing problems, which was as designed - it's more meant to add a touch of uncertainty into the game, rather than cause more problems for the Village. We had no Pattern degradation at all C1, and on C2, Aeo got what was arguably an upgrade to Thief-Taker. Whether this will hold true in a longer game is unclear.

6. I think Elims struggled a bit with meta here. It's clear that Mat wasn't hesitant to claim here, but he was hesitant to talk about his scans - probably partial lessons from LG92. The split in attitude is actually what drove both Archer and Hael onto him and they never let up. Devo then became suspicious by association. I get that Elims wanted room to manuever in - it's just that it caused them quite a bit of suspicion from Villagers in the process.

7. Archer's and Mat's lying sprees were actually hilarious  Mat made Archer drunk N1 and then couldn't work out why Archer had correctly scanned Devo on D2. As it was, Archer just completely lied about having scanned Devo, and then was confused by his results when he asked on D2 if the Forsaken was in <Hael, Raven.> (JNV had been made drunk by Mat, so the answer Archer got was truthful: 'No.' We don't know if this might have changed the game completely if Devo hadn't been exed.) Meanwhile, even had Mat decided Archer was lying, he couldn't call Archer on it, because he'd have to admit lying about Archer  In short, I'm just going to quote HBO Chernobyl here: "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."

8. Thinking of allowing PMs, but requiring players to declare who they are PMing in thread. The upside of this patch would mean we can have an Elim doc back, allowing Devo and Mat to better coordinate and strategise.

Recommendations

I think this game format can be run as a MR or a QF, with the suggested patches. Even with alternating Day/Night cycles in a QF, if it ends in six 24-hour cycles, I'm not sure it matters. I guess it could be an LG as well, but it'd need more players to guarantee a higher X value. I'm uncomfortable with it on the grounds the game can end really early if the Forsaken is exed. I would lean QF but MR is doable as well.

Once again, thanks to everyone for playing and helping us out, thanks to my bros for helping co-GM and IM this clowncar on stilts, #BT4gang best gang!

[Archer he/him]

That was fun!
-The vote for everyone strategy to weed out Dragon claims early is effective. I'd rather save us the trouble by making the rule that the Dragon must claim before Rollovet.
-Wisdom set up a nice collab with V!Poisoner to get a trustworthy Forsaken scan. I did not expect that I was drunk... Or that JNV was drunk and couldn't poison me... Glad that never mattered or I might have been very confused!
-Aeoryi's role switch claim was a solid indication of them not being Forsaken. Hard to counter claim that.
-I know you said it might have been either alignment, but E!Poisoner/Innkeeper felt predictable. Also predictable was giving the Forsaken a 'tidy' role: one that wasn't too complicated, lest they mess up their fakeclaims when they don't know they've been poisoned etc. Perhaps giving them multiple role options to choose from when fake claiming would have given them more control over their fate.
-I don't know why the Forsaken didn't bus. When I saw Devo's EOD post D1, everything clicked into place for me.
-I was actively ignoring mech analysis past D1 because Hael's results didn't match my reads (kudos to Mat for lying from the start to confound mech analysis). How people interacted with the roles they had was really telling of their alignment. I think the unfamiliar environment helped us more than the scan results did. It's possible that'll be reduced the next time around, or by a different elim team composition. The team having a good understanding of the rules might have prevented them from being easily village read. Aeoryi publicly discussing their rules confusion felt pretty genuine.
-Lying about having scanned Devo did what I wanted it to. I got Raven to attempt to demonstrate their role, checking them and forcing Mat's hand to check he wasn't actually the Forsaken. After the D1 no votes, I wasn't confident in the village's killer instinct. It was a controlled risk because if I'd been wrong, I'd get a v!Devo flip that confirms their scan on me was valid. My apologies for misleading y'all. I probably wouldn't have done it in a longer game. Time crunch was weighing on me.

-I'm against having PMs. I feel like the spirit of the game is to force public claims and collaboration about that info, and I enjoyed that part. 

Good job, team.
Thanks for running this, Kas, Drake! 

[Aeoryi she/her]

I lost my master post!

Okay:

1. Needs to be MR not QF due to the amount of solving there can be
2. Gossip should should maybe recieve drunkenness/poisoned as a GM Fact instead of role or alignment
3. Suggestion: Make Dragon Reborn and Veteran both a role similar to the innocent child role (ref: innocent child role from MU) in essence, so keep their current functionality
   Spoiler

   The innocent Child may at any point during the game request to be confirmed as a town-aligned player by the host.

   But make it so they have to submit the order pre-rollovet, and then it gets announced by the GM, to make it more official 

4. I'd make pattern degradation take more of a toll as the game goes on. Making it affect more players is the easiest way, since one pattern claim causes the entire extra-uncertainty layer to disappear 

5. The game needs more ways to be drunk/poisoned, I feel. In LG92, trolls were commonplace, and it worked fairly well as an anti-claim thing.

6. Agree with archer no PMs. That would ruin the fun (and some roles) 

7. This was actually really fun to figure out, but I just wish there was more to go with.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Aeoryi

[Kasimir he/him]

Special F for the true unsung hero of the game, @StrikerEZ the IM, who heroically fought through the messaging flood of BT4Gang:

Spoiler

Striker bro, we are not so sorry

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

I really liked my role and how it had to interact with the other roles in order for me to determine what info it could be. It made it a puzzle which I was kinda too tired the last two days to solve

But it was fun, nonetheless and I have no suggestions other than what has already been offered. 

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

After-Action Report

I'll be posting mine, Drake has his own thoughts which he will be offering. Before I do that, Drake and I would like to thank everyone for participating and request feedback. The point of a BT is to testdrive weird mech for use in a proper game. We have our thoughts on this, biut would also like to hear yours.

To be upfront, we were testing a Leviathan type ruleset, where the timeloop hamstrung the exe, but also required Villagers to be more careful about what they wanted to push and what they didn't, due to the time limit.

• Balance/Distro

Drake and I felt the game ended up being a tad V!sided in practice, but not overly so. This I think is counterintuitive because to most players, the ruleset appeared E!sided, and both Drake and I had concerns about whether X was enough - Drake's back-of-the-napkin models suggested even two cycles would've been fine, which bears out here in practice. We hesitated a bit about whether to go for X=3 or X=4, but X=3 felt like a decent choice in the end, given how it played out.

We probably could've dialled back on the info roles just a bit. Even with Pattern degradation, drunkenness, and poisoning in play, players still treated info results as prima facie plausible and used them to guide reasoning. This functionally meant that all the sources of uncertainty ended up having a small net effect. This matches with Drake's and my experience elsewhere, but is also a good thing!  This means players do not trust scans blindly, and probably shouldn't anyway.

RNGesus really had it out for the Elims there, with Aeo's D1 scan actually being very rough for them, but in general, it wasn't overly so - that same Day, Archer was considering asking if Devo was the Forsaken, meaning that what really drove the Village was some solid play with regard to their roles.

• Overall Patches/Thoughts

1. Something Devo and I differed about in Committee was whether duplicate roles were permissable. Devo was of the view they shouldn't be; I was concerned as I felt the Elims just didn't have that much space to hide in, and LG92 demonstrated that Elims generally struggled with the pressures of massclaim environments. At some level, the stakes of the ruling was about either setting a high bar for the Elims to match up to or die, or taking away one sort of tactic (ccing) from the Village. I do think it's interesting that Devo and I have swapped positions after this game: I think the 'no duplicates but Forsaken knows one role not in the game' ruling is fine; Devo is reconsidering no duplicates. I'm not sure but FWIW think allowing duplicates is fine too.

2. I didn't like Raven getting blocked for declaring his shot, which he had to do. A really easy patch of Raven's role was to make it a Day shot instead of Night. That way, the Veteran can still be shut down at Night and the next Day, but can't be shut down just by declaring the shot. Actually, Raven's role was meant to be a Day vig all along. Not swapping it back to Day shooting was a mistake because the game starting on a Night was a last-minute change.

3. The Watchman is particularly cursed to make drunk. Drake thought of a better patch but by that time, Wiz had received results, so we felt it was better not to go there at all. The solution here is to roll category, then RNG for a player not in that category each time. See spec doc for more explanation.

4. I'd like to make Gossip less swingy if I could. With facts being randed across four categories (targeted/targeting/alignment/role), it's harsh for Devo as she has a 1/2 chance of being sussed, and a 1/4 chance of being identified as the Forsaken, even with the shelter of one false fact and one true. As it's rough to find other facts within the context of a forum game, I'm considering making the Gossip act once every two cycles, or something. Not sure. Interested in recommendations here.

5. Pattern degradation didn't really play that big a role in causing problems, which was as designed - it's more meant to add a touch of uncertainty into the game, rather than cause more problems for the Village. We had no Pattern degradation at all C1, and on C2, Aeo got what was arguably an upgrade to Thief-Taker. Whether this will hold true in a longer game is unclear.

6. I think Elims struggled a bit with meta here. It's clear that Mat wasn't hesitant to claim here, but he was hesitant to talk about his scans - probably partial lessons from LG92. The split in attitude is actually what drove both Archer and Hael onto him and they never let up. Devo then became suspicious by association. I get that Elims wanted room to manuever in - it's just that it caused them quite a bit of suspicion from Villagers in the process.

7. Archer's and Mat's lying sprees were actually hilarious  Mat made Archer drunk N1 and then couldn't work out why Archer had correctly scanned Devo on D2. As it was, Archer just completely lied about having scanned Devo, and then was confused by his results when he asked on D2 if the Forsaken was in <Hael, Raven.> (JNV had been made drunk by Mat, so the answer Archer got was truthful: 'No.' We don't know if this might have changed the game completely if Devo hadn't been exed.) Meanwhile, even had Mat decided Archer was lying, he couldn't call Archer on it, because he'd have to admit lying about Archer  In short, I'm just going to quote HBO Chernobyl here: "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."

8. Thinking of allowing PMs, but requiring players to declare who they are PMing in thread. The upside of this patch would mean we can have an Elim doc back, allowing Devo and Mat to better coordinate and strategise.

Recommendations

I think this game format can be run as a MR or a QF, with the suggested patches. Even with alternating Day/Night cycles in a QF, if it ends in six 24-hour cycles, I'm not sure it matters. I guess it could be an LG as well, but it'd need more players to guarantee a higher X value. I'm uncomfortable with it on the grounds the game can end really early if the Forsaken is exed. I would lean QF but MR is doable as well.

Once again, thanks to everyone for playing and helping us out, thanks to my bros for helping co-GM and IM this clowncar on stilts, #BT4gang best gang!

i got blocked? how rude. thankfully, i didnt end the game immediately lol. who blocked me?

[Kasimir he/him]

4 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

• I wish the game was longer sort of. I agree it was fun, but realllly short. 

Yeah, sorry. This one can't be helped too much due to the fact it's a BT, which is meant for experimentation more than running actual games, and the small player size. Needing to kill one particular Elim is always a problem here because it means things can go real fast if the Village is on the right track, but I think the BotC ruleset can bring some interesting things to SE.

4 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

• Also speaking of which, there was a lot of game elements that relied on luck. Pattern degradation, drunk false information, gm facts, and a bit more things. Normally, it'd be fine, but due to the finite length of the game rng is going to play a big role.

To be honest, Devo asked me about this because how this works in the OG ruleset I'm adapting from is you don't randomise: as the GM you passively help the Elims out, or as Devo describes it, "you're encouraged to go with what makes for a 'better story.'" In this world, if Devo fakeclaimed Gleeman and you randed for her role for fake facts, I'm not supposed to RNG: I'm supposed to tell you that she is a Gleeman.

Is this a better way of running? Maybe, I don't know. In SE, we generally dislike giving GMs too much latitude in terms of intervention and choice, and it's impracticable for me to be running every single decision past the IM for the game to proceed. I cleaved more tightly to this principle when running than the OG and I think it's a capital C Choice, arguably.

In the case of drunkenness/poisoning, I'd be encouraged to just pick whatever is the Absolute Worst for the player, based on what's happening in the game. Again, GM latitude - that's something Drake and I were trying to avoid in this run.

3 hours ago, Archer said:

-The vote for everyone strategy to weed out Dragon claims early is effective. I'd rather save us the trouble by making the rule that the Dragon must claim before Rollovet.

In a full game, I think that's fine. In a twelve hour game, kinda hard to do this without screwing someone's timezones over. But agreed.

3 hours ago, Archer said:

-Aeoryi's role switch claim was a solid indication of them not being Forsaken. Hard to counter claim that.

I'd be willing to have a Forsaken's fake role change, FWIW.

3 hours ago, Archer said:

-I know you said it might have been either alignment, but E!Poisoner/Innkeeper felt predictable. Also predictable was giving the Forsaken a 'tidy' role: one that wasn't too complicated, lest they mess up their fakeclaims when they don't know they've been poisoned etc. Perhaps giving them multiple role options to choose from when fake claiming would have given them more control over their fate.

I considered giving Devo the traditional three options, yeah. I'll put that on the table for patches. I think this again was where we went 'yeah this is so E!sided do we really dare to buff the Forsaken' which is sort of the dynamic that went down in the committee PM versus where to pitch the bar for Evil. At this point, yeah, I think we can say one shouldn't be too afraid to buff Evil as well as a definite conclusion from this run.

3 hours ago, Archer said:

-I'm against having PMs. I feel like the spirit of the game is to force public claims and collaboration about that info, and I enjoyed that part. 

I'll note FWIW that BotC allows private chats - it's just that the whole group knows who is conspiring together. This is to allow some Elim coordination, but also Village ones. Fair about the balance but I'm tempted to allow a limited/small number of Day PMs that have to be public.

3 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

• Needs to be MR not QF due to the amount of solving there can be

Issue with MR is that by the rules, you still have to break it into 24/24 cycles. There's only so much flexibility with the format. If you're going 24/24 anyway, you might as well just stick to your guns and call it a QF since it could end theoretically early if Village gets lucky.

3 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

• Gossip should should maybe recieve drunkenness/poisoned as a GM Fact instead of role or alignment

I think we could just increase it - Gossip could absolutely receive these, but add it to the pool. This is again where the shift to RNG has an influence, because if I were picking, you'd never get role/alignment on D1. Or I'd give you Darkfriend and Gleeman and call it a day.

---

One more thought I had is that if I ever run this ruleset again, I'm probably going to throw out the Leviathan timeloop and pick some other Menace to reskin and run with, to keep things a tad fresh for the Village

Some of these thoughts come from working with another player on a different community to help run her game, tbf, so I've had fresh thoughts coming off working to make this ruleset (in general) work in an SE context.

38 minutes ago, TheRavenHasLanded said:

i got blocked? how rude. thankfully, i didnt end the game immediately lol. who blocked me?

It's on the GM Mastersheet - Mat blocked you, of course.

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

52 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

 

Yeah, sorry. This one can't be helped too much due to the fact it's a BT, which is meant for experimentation more than running actual games, and the small player size. Needing to kill one particular Elim is always a problem here because it means things can go real fast if the Village is on the right track, but I think the BotC ruleset can bring some interesting things to SE.

 

To be honest, Devo asked me about this because how this works in the OG ruleset I'm adapting from is you don't randomise: as the GM you passively help the Elims out, or as Devo describes it, "you're encouraged to go with what makes for a 'better story.'" In this world, if Devo fakeclaimed Gleeman and you randed for her role for fake facts, I'm not supposed to RNG: I'm supposed to tell you that she is a Gleeman.

Is this a better way of running? Maybe, I don't know. In SE, we generally dislike giving GMs too much latitude in terms of intervention and choice, and it's impracticable for me to be running every single decision past the IM for the game to proceed. I cleaved more tightly to this principle when running than the OG and I think it's a capital C Choice, arguably.

In the case of drunkenness/poisoning, I'd be encouraged to just pick whatever is the Absolute Worst for the player, based on what's happening in the game. Again, GM latitude - that's something Drake and I were trying to avoid in this run.

 

In a full game, I think that's fine. In a twelve hour game, kinda hard to do this without screwing someone's timezones over. But agreed.

 

I'd be willing to have a Forsaken's fake role change, FWIW.

 

I considered giving Devo the traditional three options, yeah. I'll put that on the table for patches. I think this again was where we went 'yeah this is so E!sided do we really dare to buff the Forsaken' which is sort of the dynamic that went down in the committee PM versus where to pitch the bar for Evil. At this point, yeah, I think we can say one shouldn't be too afraid to buff Evil as well as a definite conclusion from this run.

 

I'll note FWIW that BotC allows private chats - it's just that the whole group knows who is conspiring together. This is to allow some Elim coordination, but also Village ones. Fair about the balance but I'm tempted to allow a limited/small number of Day PMs that have to be public.

 

Issue with MR is that by the rules, you still have to break it into 24/24 cycles. There's only so much flexibility with the format. If you're going 24/24 anyway, you might as well just stick to your guns and call it a QF since it could end theoretically early if Village gets lucky.

 

I think we could just increase it - Gossip could absolutely receive these, but add it to the pool. This is again where the shift to RNG has an influence, because if I were picking, you'd never get role/alignment on D1. Or I'd give you Darkfriend and Gleeman and call it a day.

 

---

One more thought I had is that if I ever run this ruleset again, I'm probably going to throw out the Leviathan timeloop and pick some other Menace to reskin and run with, to keep things a tad fresh for the Village

Some of these thoughts come from working with another player on a different community to help run her game, tbf, so I've had fresh thoughts coming off working to make this ruleset (in general) work in an SE context.

It's on the GM Mastersheet - Mat blocked you, of course.

oh, that makes sense tbh.

the spec sheet is amazing.

[Mat he/him]

Oh that’s what happened. Yeah, that was the second option. The first was JNV blocking me N0, which is why I accused them of lying, but that was actually a stupid thing to do because to explain further I’d have to virtually out Devo as the Forsaken. At that point I ghosted the thread but I also was busy the whole rest of the night so I doubt I would have talked anyway.

Lying did catch up to me. I guess there’s a lesson in that. But it didn’t catch up to Archer so idk :P.

Archer, my post about you pushing me was independent of you being right. I think what happens is that you’re just insane at gut reading me, but you hate to call something a gut read, so you confbais bad reasons to cite. Like, you e read me because I village read you while you admitted to mindmelding. Things like that happen all the time. I guess I have no argument because you continue to be right though, so good job xD 

I said this to Kas/Drake already, but if the GMs wanna rerand the game and start it again at tonight’s rollover time, it’s be over by Christmas and we could try it again :). :). :).

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

the raven doc lol.

also, the alt title would have been funny.

[JNV]

This was really fun all the lies were twisty Archer I kkinda suspected you were gambiting but wow it paid off so no complaints Im honestly a little sad my role was of no help whatsoever at all but anyway this ruleset was fun the time loop was fun even if we never really did take advantage of it flip wise great job all

[Kasimir he/him]

51 minutes ago, Mat said:

I said this to Kas/Drake already, but if the GMs wanna rerand the game and start it again at tonight’s rollover time, it’s be over by Christmas and we could try it again :). :). :).

Striker, Drake, and I would like our lives back, but we appreciate this  

[Archer he/him]

1 hour ago, Mat said:

Oh that’s what happened. Yeah, that was the second option. The first was JNV blocking me N0, which is why I accused them of lying, but that was actually a stupid thing to do because to explain further I’d have to virtually out Devo as the Forsaken. At that point I ghosted the thread but I also was busy the whole rest of the night so I doubt I would have talked anyway.

Lying did catch up to me. I guess there’s a lesson in that. But it didn’t catch up to Archer so idk :P.

Archer, my post about you pushing me was independent of you being right. I think what happens is that you’re just insane at gut reading me, but you hate to call something a gut read, so you confbais bad reasons to cite. Like, you e read me because I village read you while you admitted to mindmelding. Things like that happen all the time. I guess I have no argument because you continue to be right though, so good job xD 

I said this to Kas/Drake already, but if the GMs wanna rerand the game and start it again at tonight’s rollover time, it’s be over by Christmas and we could try it again :). :). :).

To be fair to you, your claim timing was probably NAI. Your mistake was trying to pocket me, tripping my paranoia defences. :P.
Then throw in the contrast between how you and JNV approached poisoning, and the relationship Devo established with you by saving you D1, in the context of some villagey play by everyone else. And you weren't super interested in finding the Forsaken.
I could have made a case based on tone reads, but I hate debating those so I took the lazy out. 

My other gambit plan was to claim Dragon, but Raven's veteran claim meant we had a way of checking Dragon claimants. Forsaken claiming Dragon is, unfortunately, a great way to win the game imo

49 minutes ago, JNV said:

This was really fun all the lies were twisty Archer I kkinda suspected you were gambiting but wow it paid off so no complaints Im honestly a little sad my role was of no help whatsoever at all but anyway this ruleset was fun the time loop was fun even if we never really did take advantage of it flip wise great job all

Thank you for not unleashing your quokka army on me :3.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Archer

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

To be fair to you, your claim timing was probably NAI. Your mistake was trying to pocket me, tripping my paranoia defences. :P.
Then throw in the contrast between how you and JNV approached poisoning, and the relationship Devo established with you by saving you D1, in the context of some villagey play by everyone else. And you weren't super interested in finding the Forsaken.
I could have made a case based on tone reads, but I hate debating those so I took the lazy out. 

My other gambit plan was to claim Dragon, but Raven's veteran claim meant we had a way of checking Dragon claimants. Forsaken claiming Dragon is, unfortunately, a great way to win the game imo

Thank you for not unleashing your quokka army on me :3.

i did something!/j. but truly, i think veteran is a simple yet powerful tool, especially if you get revived after. 

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, Mat said:

I said this to Kas/Drake already, but if the GMs wanna rerand the game and start it again at tonight’s rollover time, it’s be over by Christmas and we could try it again :). :). :).

Oh yeah - so like a timeloop within a timeloop?  

[Aeoryi she/her]

Just now, Kasimir said:

Oh yeah - so like a timeloop within a timeloop?  

[Ashbringer he/him]

You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round

 

(Kinda wish I'd played just for the song, but with my schedule probably good that I didn't )

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I never really know what to say in Aftermaths smh

And I already told Kas the gist of my thoughts on the game design and those are pretty much represented in his post-mortem report so I feel no urgent need to restate anything.

So uh... Well played folks, hopefully you had some fun And thanks for participating in a self-proclaimed crazy experiment of a game