The Unknown Medallion he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Kasimir said: There is absolutely zero reason to go for you right now and I've implied as much. Well it gets pretty frustrating when you give 101 reasons to v!read you and there is practically no acknowledgement. This has been a trend for longer than just today. I suppose you're trying to say that your vote is more of a reaction test, but the problem is that I 100% believe you would vote me here. It's completely in character for you to vote the least Villagey option, and I would believe that you think that's me. I think what was pinging me wrong was that I'm not the least Villagey and that's why your initial post felt odd and forced. 1 hour ago, Kasimir said: The Village cannot afford your flip. It can, I think. It will always be better for an elim to die, but we won't even be all that close to losing if I die. If you legitimately are baiting people/seeing how far they'llfollow you, I will move my vote, but if you actually suspect me, I would rather my slot be solved. 1 hour ago, Kasimir said: If you come at the king, you better not miss. Which is a way of saying that if you want to antagonise Aut and force the issue now, why vote VOCALS in particular? Because I don't think there's enough of an appetite for Drake/Auto. Your passivity against Auto has leaked into everyone else. VOCALS was the middle ground, something everyone would be willing to exe. I will also say, better the devil you know. I would rather go after Hoid rn while I prune Drake's Avatars to hold him back. He's limited to a three vote swing, because there's no way the Village will trust him now, at least, we better not. Hoid is not similarly limited, he has a smaller base vote swing, but he is more able to convince the Village. 1 hour ago, Kasimir said: P.S. Shards go to the nearest non-Vessel on the same Shardworld. I'll give you another hint: I'm a Villager. JNV and I and Drake are on Threnody. Stop trying to hint things, if you want something, say it. At this point the only activish voices are you and Araris, with a subset of me and TJ. We (really you and Araris, people don't listen to me or even TJ as much as they should) are the people the Village will follow, sure, they have their own ideas, yeah, they'll start their own trains every now and again, definitely, they should be doing those things more, but they aren't. If one of the more trusted voices opposes a less trusted voice, the Village will ignore the less trusted one. If each voice chooses someone else, the Village will pick and choose and spread where they feel is right. At least, that's my thoughts. There's a decent chance I'm wrong, but I just finished Children of the Mind by Orson Scott Card, so I'm in a philosophical mood.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, The Bald Brandon said: I suppose you're trying to say that your vote is more of a reaction test, but the problem is that I 100% believe you would vote me here. It's completely in character for you to vote the least Villagey option, and I would believe that you think that's me. It wasn't a reaction test. It was me trying to square two opposing impulses, which is that I didn't want to be forced to betray Drake and to lead the Village against him, and that I was fine with a no lynch here. I do think there are E!you worlds - I just don't feel there's a compelling case to go onto you right now. 3 minutes ago, The Bald Brandon said: It can, I think. It will always be better for an elim to die, but we won't even be all that close to losing if I die. If you legitimately are baiting people/seeing how far they'llfollow you, I will move my vote, but if you actually suspect me, I would rather my slot be solved. I do suspect you but nowhere near the priority of needing your flip right now. The numbers aren't pretty - don't vote yourself. 3 minutes ago, The Bald Brandon said: I will also say, better the devil you know. I would rather go after Hoid rn while I prune Drake's Avatars to hold him back. He's limited to a three vote swing, because there's no way the Village will trust him now, at least, we better not. Hoid is not similarly limited, he has a smaller base vote swing, but he is more able to convince the Village. Remember Drake has a NK. Do you really expect him to play nice with it? 4 minutes ago, The Bald Brandon said: Stop trying to hint things, if you want something, say it. At this point the only activish voices are you and Araris, with a subset of me and TJ. We (really you and Araris, people don't listen to me or even TJ as much as they should) are the people the Village will follow, sure, they have their own ideas, yeah, they'll start their own trains every now and again, definitely, they should be doing those things more, but they aren't. I'm trying to walk a line that I can feel alright about. I'm subbing out of this game because I quite frankly had a mental breakdown about either forcing/gaslighting a player to kill themselves or betraying a player and a bro who had only ever been kind and honorable to me. I want many things. I wanted a nice, chill, RPful game. I didn't want to have to be a piece of crem who had to betray so many goddamned people this game. I wanted a game that didn't leave me crying and repeatedly apologising to Drake in the Threnody doc because there's nothing else I can do or could do after I snapped. I wanted a game that wasn't a clusterchull and that didn't leave me creating repeated clusterchulls and disappointing or hurting or letting someone down no matter what I did, and which way I chose and abusing people's trust. I just wanted a game that didn't leave me seriously questioning if I was becoming one of the worst people I knew. You want me to say what I want? I want all of that. If the Village lynches Drake this cycle, I get his Shards. I keep my wincon. If I don't Intent Convert. I essentially become a major Village vig with an extra life. That's what I was pointing out. I don't want this to happen. I don't - fricking want to be forced to choose and to let someone down no matter what. I'm tired of this. It's a mess. My player-game separation is entirely in karking pieces right now and I am briefing Stick, who is replacing me at rollover. Do whatever you want with that. I can't do this anymore.
Araris Valerian he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Kasimir said: Thoughts on Walin's alignment? I guess I’d lean Hoidite here, if only because he’s in a limited pool of people that Archer interacted with. Like you say though, as things stand he’s dying, so that could be a boon for us.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: I guess I’d lean Hoidite here, if only because he’s in a limited pool of people that Archer interacted with. Like you say though, as things stand he’s dying, so that could be a boon for us. Walin isn't. Fae and Turtle are. @The Bald Brandon: The terse, unemotional reply as objectively as I can make it: -Drake real problem here. Problem is not his Avatars but the fact he has a NK. There is no way in hell one reasonably flips DeTess if one wasn't planning to be anti-Village - DeTess is a paranoia shot, not a real shot. Drake knows better and has better V!play - this was a deliberate control shot. -I still don't want to hurt Drake and this is not helping. -If you let him use his NK, he can rip out the voting core of the Village before you can find the Hoidites. Hoidites really not worst problem right now. They can't vote or kill. With two players, they are not getting Shards unless the Village seriously screws up. -His votes and Avatars really are not the problem here. -I don't feel there is sufficient reason to go for you prior to flipping: <Fae/Turtle, Walin, and probably Araris.> Then you, then TJ/some mess of 'Not my problem.' -Strong case for E!Araris. D3 defensive vote from Archer when major Araris train sprang up, Archer's shifting reads on Araris (high Village for not self-pressing, sudden N3 claim would exe anyway), D4 Archer read while not defending Archer in vote. -Possibly could negotiate with Drake, IDK, or maybe it's wishful thinking. -I was basically committing to helping Drake and ignoring my wincon this cycle. It's not viable anymore. I'm sorry, but watching you self-vote and that tonal crem just broke me. I can't do this anymore. I'm leaving and Stick is replacing me. @ me if you guys need more info but it really shouldn't be this difficult and I am going to need to brief Stick. Edited to add: IMO strict order of priority: Drake + Fae/Turtle -> Walin/Araris -> Araris/Walin -> You -> TJ -> Not My Problem, Figure It Out Yourselves. I'd really rather not have to move against Drake but I think it's necessary unless you all can get him to hard-commit. Edited to add 2: Right I forgot Wiz. Treat him as interchangeable with you I guess. Edited June 23, 2023 by Kasimir
Kasimir he/him Posted June 23, 2023 Posted June 23, 2023 I won't vote you. But I can't vote Drake. I know it's the correct strategic option here but I cannot bring myself to do it and won't. TBB
Szeth Pancakes he/they Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 5:29 PM, Kasimir said: don't @ me Szeth @Kasimir mwahaha 21 hours ago, Ashbringer said: Somehow, Rollovet Returned. Long live rollovet! 5 hours ago, The Bald Brandon said: TBB/TKN/Myself TBB Self-voting this late in the game is never a good sign.
The Unknown Medallion he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 For what it's worth Kas, I'm sorry for any of this that I've caused. Drake (TBB) I'm willing to go on Araris for the reasons mentioned earlier, but Drake probably is the correct option here.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Szeth_Pancakes said: Self-voting this late in the game is never a good sign. What in tarnation
The Unknown Medallion he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 22 minutes ago, Kasimir said: What in tarnation That's about my reading of it too. Maybe your Szeth read isn't as solid as you think.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, The Bald Brandon said: Maybe your Szeth read isn't as solid as you think. I'd sooner believe the sky fall. If you are Evil, the why should be very obvious to you. If you are Village, re-reading Roshar very, very carefully should tell you why, even beyond all the reasons I've cited to you. (I'm keeping this secret out of respect but it's been pretty damned obvious, not sorry.)
Szeth Pancakes he/they Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 51 minutes ago, Kasimir said: What in tarnation :shrug:
The Unknown Medallion he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 I think I might know. But I suck at these things so much I could be very wrong.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Bald Brandon said: I'm willing to go on Araris for the reasons mentioned earlier, but Drake probably is the correct option here. He's quite probably Evil. But from an objective perspective, the DeTess shot is an explicit warning that Drake was willing to make a kill that runs counter to Village interests. I repeat the point that in no world running his standard/reasonable Village play would Drake have taken that kind of hero shot on DeTess as compared to say, Araris. It should be crystal clear to any player paying attention that this is a sign that Drake no longer sees his interests as coinciding with the Village's. Failure to respond to this on the part of the Village or to retaliate by voting him out or attempting to vote him out is going to result in a tough road for the Village, and I frankly feel it's well-deserved. I would argue that even if it's a tie, you are probably not well-served offing yourself just because the rest of the Village and Szeth doesn't seem to appreciate this tactical reality. The tie will be very costly because it gives Drake a free tempo to shoot whoever he wants tonight (no real prediction there but it won't be Araris! Possible TJ or Stick or Szeth.) [Even if you are Evil, and AC, I would argue you have to see that unless Drake commits to a joint win with you, your prospects are actually pretty awful if he's not voted out here.] But I've said my piece. It's a frankly terrible move from Szeth and in any world where I didn't know what I did, I'd actually be forced to ask if Szeth were Evil or being played by Drake here. It's a move IMO that the Village will regret because your PtV shrinks over time and is dependent on whether Drake feels nice enough to let you. Drake has the power at Night. The only time the Village has the power is during the Day. The longer you wait, the more players you lose and the more you are dependent on AC votes, and AC, if they are smart, will try to broker their own deal with Drake. IMO that's why there's no choice but to move on him. I know that. And still I can't make myself vote him, so I guess I'm just as culpable. Edited to add: The tie will be very costly, but a tie and free tempo to Drake is better than giving up a life and also free tempo IMO. Edited June 24, 2023 by Kasimir
Szeth Pancakes he/they Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Also, I'd like to caution against the Drake train. I hate to be That Guy :TM: but unless I missed something earlier I don't see sufficient proof that Drake is actually Aut. And Araris and TBB seem to be jumping on that wayyy too quick.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Szeth_Pancakes said: Also, I'd like to caution against the Drake train. I hate to be That Guy :TM: but unless I missed something earlier I don't see sufficient proof that Drake is actually Aut. And Araris and TBB seem to be jumping on that wayyy too quick. I can confirm Drake is Autonomy
Szeth Pancakes he/they Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Kasimir said: I can confirm Drake is Autonomy Olivia Rodrigo - good 4 u (Official Video) - YouTube
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Szeth_Pancakes said: Olivia Rodrigo - good 4 u (Official Video) - YouTube I did my best I don't particularly care, to be honest. This is a gamethrowing move right here, but I actually also want Drake to win, so I consider my duty to you discharged. I have warned the Village: what the Village chooses to do with my warning, including throwing the game, is on them. I'm done here.
Szeth Pancakes he/they Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Kasimir said: I did my best I don't particularly care, to be honest. This is a gamethrowing move right here, but I actually also want Drake to win, so I consider my duty to you discharged. I have warned the Village: what the Village chooses to do with my warning, including throwing the game, is on them. I'm done here. Wait ok nvm But why would aut!drake a) not kill Frost last night and b) claim to the thread? I don't really get it. I trust you, but I'm gon need u to walk my sleepy brain through this a bit more
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Szeth_Pancakes said: Wait ok nvm But why would aut!drake a) not kill Frost last night and claim to the thread? I don't really get it. I trust you, but I'm gon need u to walk my sleepy brain through this a bit more A. What makes you think he didn't? Let's just say there was a near thing, an intervention from me and Drake also has a sense of fairness. Which adds to why I really don't want my bro dead despite also knowing it's...not likely to work out. B. Drake lives spicily and Drake has a plan. Look. You either think I'm Village or not. And if you think I'm Village, then you know I think lying to the Village is a pretty bad idea. Which means that the fact I'm dead serious about this and that Drake isn't denying being Aut either from the very start of this cycle clearly implies he decided to openwolf. And the fact he's openwolfing is the main reason I've stopped hiding he's Aut. This is also further backed up by my behaviour because I've never really had any constant reason to suspect Drake - I just refused to lie to the Village by V!reading him. If you don't think I'm Village, I can't really help you there at this point, to be honest. Let's say we bracket the question of whether Drake is Aut. What is uncontroversial at this point is still: Drake is Odium That kill should have made him Intent Convert He still chose a target that should not have been a shot that any reasonable V!vig would have picked, which still indicates he no longer thinks of himself as being aligned with Village interests. The Village can choose to act on this, or it can choose to hope that Drake made a mistake. IMO if you have a vig that is making a control kill against the Village rather than an actual suspect kill (and remember, you yourself V!read DeTess last night!), then you still have a problem that you and the vig need to resolve.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said: Ah. Makes sense drake With regard to your second question - he may also have made a bet with me the Village would not vote him if I didn't get involved and he argues it's kind of true given: A. I got enough people to stick to the nonsense TBB train that should not have been a serious option at this point of the Village's tactical situation. B. I had to breadcrumb Araris into going for the vote. I'll give it to Drake: he has the best gambits and wins with style.
Amanuensis he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 23 hours ago, Amanuensis said: 30 minutes remain in the day to get in your votes and actions! ED1T: Disregard! I am dumb! 15 minutes remain in the day to get in your votes and actions. And for real this time.
Kasimir he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Amanuensis said: 15 minutes remain in the day to get in your votes and actions. And for real this time. Farewell to everyone. I'm sorry I couldn't balance what I felt were conflicting obligations to my Village bros and to Drake bro. I hope to see you all someday again in a kinder, better time. Thanks for all the fish. P.S. As my last statement of the game, as I'm no longer quite a Villager anymore: @DrakeMarshall yo bro I know this is like the Epitome of Mixed Messages but I did my duty but I hope u win lol & am rooting for u
DrakeMarshall he/him Posted June 24, 2023 Posted June 24, 2023 TBB. I'm not sure which has me more miffed: the fact that I've had to break my no-voting bit for this, or the fact that I don't even get to post the epic persuasive speech I typed up about why y'all shouldn't lynch me because apparently I didn't need to Well if I get vote manipped into the dirt I'll feel stupid but I've been taking unnecessary risks this whole time what's one more!!! See y'all on the other side ig, stay tuned 1
Recommended Posts