Investiture fueled Mistborn Vs. Radiant

[Frustration he/him]

Topic title carefully worded to avoid spoilers.

So basically, we saw in TLM that mistborn can use Identity free investiture to supercharge their metals.

So, it's time to play who would win: 5th Oath Radiant, or Investiture fueled Mistborn?

Edited February 25, 2023 by Frustration

[lacrossedeamon]

They would both agree this fight is stupid and ally with each other instead.

[therunner he/him]

2 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

They would both agree this fight is stupid and ally with each other instead.

Or not, depends on context.

To the topic at hand, I'll focus on only Windrunner primarily for other Orders we know too little (I think Elsecaller can still easily win by moving to CR as usual and soulcasting as needed).

I'll assume both have equal amount of Investiture available to them, since both are fueled by it. Then several questions will be important:

1. Who has more efficient powers?
2. Will A-Pewter fueled by Investiture heal as well as Stormlight (i.e. ability to heal damage to soul)?
3. Can they affect Shardplate/Shardblade?
4. How will direct Investiture fuel affect bendalloy bubbles?
5. What happens to Investiture when Mistborn uses A-Duralumin? Is it all burned off at once?
6. Will the pure Investiture allow them to mimic Atium?
7. How far could they see with Electrum?

Personally I think the answers would be

1. Neither is much more efficient, Lashings are more efficient for mobility (Radiant applies them to themselves, improving it compared to affecting other metal sources), however Mistborn will have more powers running at once diminishing them.
2. I think A-Pewter will heal well when fueled by raw Investiture, but not as well as e.g. compounded Gold or even Stormlight. Pewter healing seems to be extremely minor side-effect, more to help maintain function despite damage then actual healing (e.g. Vin still takes months to fully heal broken ribs and internal damage, despite burning pewter nearly non-stop).
3. I don't think they would be able to affect either Shardplate or Shardblade, the power required is on order of Well of Ascension, which is beyond being 'just' fueled by pure Investiture.
4. The bendalloy compression factor would be far greater most likely, allowing Mistborn to take 'breaks' in the middle of the fight to strategize, and rest up.
5. I think trying to use Investiture as A-duralumin would probably burn of all of the Investiture? All powers are fueled now from the same source, and A-duralumin completly uses up given source, so that makes sense to me. Possibly with proper Intent they could only burn off portion they cognitively designated for the given metal.
6. I don't think pure Investiture would allow for mimic of Atium (or other Godmetals), even when Elend was fueled directly by Preservation, only the Atium he actually held could be burned.
7. If they could see further than 2-3 seconds, then Radiant has little chance of winning.

 

Sounds like it would be quite a fight to me, and I might actually give a bit of an edge to the Mistborn.

The pushed coins/objects should be fast enough to present danger to the Shardplate, so Windrunner would have to be quite careful and use Reverse Lashing generously for defense.
Windrunner still has mobility advantage, close quarters offensive advantage, and could use Shardblade for defense (i.e. unbreakable shield).

I think Reverse Lashings are the most efficient of the Lashings (please correct me if I am wrong), so Mistborn would run out of Investiture sooner if only attacking from distance (as the Reverse Lashing would be strong enough to draw coins off course), forcing close quarters.

In close quarters, Electrum will be major advantage, if it would see further then 2-3 seconds. Radiant at least can sever limbs, which won't be easily noticeable on the Electrum as there would be no physical damage. Then if A-Pewter cannot heal spiritual damage, it would be easier.

Honestly, yeah I think Mistborn has advantage here, mainly from Electrum and Bendalloy. Remove those two, and I would say Windrunner would edge them out again.

[alder24]

Is Radiant fueled by pure investiture as well? Or does he has normal Stormlight but a lot of it? Would there even be a difference if Radiant was to be fueled by pure liquid Dor?

I mostly agree with @therunner but:

5 hours ago, therunner said:

• I think trying to use Investiture as A-duralumin would probably burn of all of the Investiture? All powers are fueled now from the same source, and A-duralumin completly uses up given source, so that makes sense to me. Possibly with proper Intent they could only burn off portion they cognitively designated for the given metal.

It's likely duralumin would want to burn all investiture at once. But what if Mistborn had just classical vials of liquid pure investiture and refuel? Easy solution. Or if they are more or less fueled directly by a Shard (like Elend HoA), then it wouldn't matter.

5 hours ago, therunner said:

• I don't think they would be able to affect either Shardplate or Shardblade, the power required is on order of Well of Ascension, which is beyond being 'just' fueled by pure Investiture.

I think it might be possible, but only with duralumin, pushing plate wouldn't disassemble it so you can't create openings that way, that's why I think it would be just impractical to use it, or as a very last effort to avoid being killed by a Shardblade. WoB: 

Spoiler

Questioner

So I have heard that it is harder to Push a Shardblade with Allomancy than it is a normal sword.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is that true of both living and dead Shardblades?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Equally?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, no.

Questioner

Okay, so it's even more difficult to Push one alive.

Brandon Sanderson

The thing-- An Invested object is more difficult with any of the magics. So, for instance, even a Feruchemical metalmind is going to be harder. Depends on how much it is Invested, and things like that. But, y'know, it can range from you barely notice it or don't even notice it to "Wow, that's hard to Push on". Same for a Hemalurgical spike, depending on how much Investiture is left over, how long has it been outside of a body, and things like that. Same thing Pushing on something inside a person's body, their Investiture is going to interfere with it.

Same thing, when you read White Sand, why a person slapping their hand through someone's stream of sand can throw off the entire creation of the sand mastery. It's just-- There's interference patterns, and things like that.

Questioner

And is that true of a Drab as well? Does the body affect--

Brandon Sanderson

The Drab is going to have less.

Questioner

So they just have less Investiture, but they still have some natural Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

They do still have some. They've lost their Breath but that isn't the entirety of the Investiture inside of them.

Almost all of the times we see Vin--in fact I think every time--we see Vin, or someone in the Mistborn books, Pushing or Pulling on an Invested metal they are either drawing on the mist or they're Elend or the Lord Ruler who have the enhanced power, or something like that. Or it's a duralumin Push, or its one of the Inquisitors who's had a spike-- y'know, and things like that, that've-- And so it's not something that you see done very often in the Mistborn books.

Rubix

I can actually confirm that's correct.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh you guys looked it up?

Rubix

I checked.

Brandon Sanderson

I mean it can be done. And depending on Investiture it can be not even that hard to do but--

Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

Because we are talking about being fueled by pure investiture, like Dor, or Shardpool from TLM, I think it would be less effective in pulling Shardblades normally (as it's still a bit too little investiture compared to the Well so not possible) but with duralumin it could have some effect, enough to push a Shardblade out of Radiant's hand before he kills you. 

 

 

To add more, I think it should be noted how powerful such Mistborn would be. And the best and only comparison is Rashek. Being powered with pure investiture would result in having powers of the the Lord Ruler - which was also noted by Marasi in TLM when using Dor/Shardpool. This is insane power on its own. Such Mistborn would be able to push metals inside of a Radiant (without plate, even though he's invested with Stormlight, but then it wouldn't be deadly), and simple smoothing and rioting would have a paralyzing effect, like we saw in TLM (again, the same rules as with pushing). But with duralumin it could be even more powerful and crippling. Using duralumin with emotional allomancy could potentially allow such Mistborn to paralyze Radiant even when he is fully invested with all his Stormlight. With that level of power, leeching maybe could affect Shardplate (larkins can feed on Shardplate's light (WoB below about dead plate?), it can work similarly with chromium at that level causing plate to dismiss sprens? Crack plate? Prevent healing?). Mistborn can leech reverse lashing, and if he has primar cubes, he can charge it with aluminum and throw it at Radiant/reverse lashing which would stop those powers (most likely he doesn't have them as then Radiant can have fabrials). 

But there is more, Mistborn powers are moving in the direction of influencing fundamental forces, so it's not just metals that can be pushed, this is on par with Radiant's surges (WoB below). If such Mistborn had time to prepare and learn more, then he would be far more dangerous. 

With this amount of power compared to Stormlight fueled Radiant, I think Mistborn would win in around 60% of fights with Windrunner. 90% with Lightweavers, 80% with Skybreakers, 10% with Elsecallers, 95% with Truthwatchers (non enlightened), 70% with Edgedancers. I'm not including Bondsmith (probably close to 0% as he can just steal his Allomancy), or other orders we know little about (non enlightened Truthwatchers are one of them, but because of their surges I'm sure they would not stand a chance). 

Spoiler

Argent

Mechanically speaking, how does steelsight work? The scientific definition of "metal" gets a little murky in the middle of the periodic table-

Brandon Sanderson

It does.

Argent

-and we see that powerful enough Allomancers can see more than just metals.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Argent

Are Connection and perception significantly involved here?

Brandon Sanderson

To an extent, but the science of it also is. I feel like the stronger steelsight is getting, the more it is detecting things like electromagnetic bonds and even, you know, the strong and weak force and some of these sorts of things that is just in everything, right? And I do think that in strongest applications, Allomancy is going to be moving beyond metals and moving toward things like fundamental forces. So there you go.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

Spoiler

FirstRyder

Could Aluminum be used to protect a Surgebinder from a larkin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

havoc_mayhem

Would a larkin be able to steal Stormlight from a surgebinder wearing Shardplate? Any comments on whether Shardplate or aluminium would be more effective protection?

Brandon Sanderson

Getting through both would be relatively equal--with the problem being that Shardplate is powered by investiture, which the larkin could feed on. So aluminum is better in that specific case.

Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 19, 2016)

 

Edit: Wax with Bands of Mourning was able to see the soul of people, and fell he could move those as well (BoM ch 29)

Quote

Wax strode forward, wary of traps. He thought faster, moved faster than normal. The blue lines spread from him as a brilliant web, seeking sources of metal smaller—and farther away—than he could normally sense. At times this seemed to flicker, and for a moment he saw the radiance inside of each person and thing. It felt as if he might be able to move those too.

An awed voice in the back of his mind whispered, They’re all the same. Metal, minds, men, all the same substance.…

[...]

“Disarm the device!” Suit shouted toward the door. He strolled to the front of the ship and spoke into a tube there. “Disarm it and stand down.”

Feet thumped away from the door. Wax could actually watch them go—not by their metals, but by the signature their souls made. In moments, he could see nobody there, or hiding anywhere around the bridge.

This means that going to CR might not hide Radiants from pure investiture fueled Mistborn.

Edited February 25, 2023 by alder24

[Frustration he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Is Radiant fueled by pure investiture as well? Or does he has normal Stormlight but a lot of it? Would there even be a difference if Radiant was to be fueled by pure liquid Dor?

 

I don't think there would be a difference, as Stormlight is investiture already.

Liquid investiture is more dense, so that probably has an effect.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

With that level of power, leeching maybe could affect Shardplate (larkins can feed on Shardplate's light (WoB below about dead plate?), it can work similarly with chromium at that level causing plate to dismiss sprens? Crack plate? Prevent healing?).

I don't believe that living plate needs light to function, only to heal, as seen by how Jasnah was able to walk across the battlefield in plate, and have a conversation with Wit all without Stormlight. However you probably could keep it from healing.

Though, I'm not sure if it could dismiss plate, or crack it.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Mistborn can leech reverse lashing, and if he has primar cubes, he can charge it with aluminum and throw it at Radiant/reverse lashing which would stop those powers (most likely he doesn't have them as then Radiant can have fabrials). 

It would probably work on those below Oath 3, but at Oath 4 Kaladin was unaffected by the Sibling.

But I agree, we should probably keep non-standard equipment out of this as much as possible.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Edit: Wax with Bands of Mourning was able to see the soul of people, and fell he could move those as well (BoM ch 29)

This means that going to CR might not hide Radiants from pure investiture fueled Mistborn.

He could see them, but even Wax at that point couldn't push on their souls. And Radiants are far more invested.

 

This honestly feels like a much more even match up to me., and it definitely makes winning much harder for both sides.

 

Tin would be increased to frankly unreasonable levels

pewter would make them almost as strong as Shardplate

Steel/iron could push on trace metals

Copper, is copper.

Bronze could easily pick up even lightweavers

Zinc/brass would be blocked by shardplate still

Bendalloy becomes not just viable, but incredibly valuable, as full minutes of planning in seconds is outright insane.

Electrum, I don't know how useful it would be without the mental increases Atium gives, but it probably has some uses.

Chromium becomes incredibly efficient

Duralumin becomes even more of a game ender, honestly a duralumin coin might be enough to crack plate through a reverse lashing.

 

 

Windrunners do still have reverse lashings which makes it much easier for them to avoid taking damage.

Orders with Gravitation lose a lot of their advantage in mobility, as now the mistborn can use trace metals to push on, though they would still have a pretty noticeable height limit.

Division, would make touching the ones with it a bad idea, and give them some counterplay to coins and leeching, but Chromium would be much faster, and would probably prevent them from causing too much damage directly.

Abrasion would provide a good defense against projectiles, but they lost almost all of their mobility advantage.

Progression I believe would still be useful, as extra healing is not something to sniff at, especially with Mistborn's heightened offensive output. But plants would mostly be off the table, as they all require metals, and thus could be pushed on.

Illumination, without lasers would only really be helpful if the Mistborn increased their senses. Lightweavers also lose the advantage of being able to hide from bronze with its new strength.

Transformation, I believe is one of the only surges that didn't lose anything in terms of usefulness. Trapping the Mistborn in an aluminum box would work just as well as it did before. Though you would definitely want to use aluminum, or other decidedly non-metals as otherwise they might be able to get out.

Transportation, is interesting as the Mistborn can see into the CR slightly now, but they still can't really do anything to you. So, it's still good.

Cohesion got completely invalidated unfortunately. As sinking a Mistborn's anchors has become almost impossible.

Tension still has its place, and in fact might be the only surge to become more valuable. With direct investiture fueling a Mistborn would probably be almost as strong as Shardplate, so being able to increase your own strength is suddenly a lot more valuable.

 

You'll notice that I didn't put anything down for Adhesion, other than reverse lashings, and the reason is full lashings are completely invalidated by leeching, and Bondsmiths are OP, so they don't count.

 

So Willshapers can't lose, but they also can't win. Edgedancers have the defensive capacity to potentially outlast their opponent, but they struggle offensively. Truthwatchers probably can't win, and Dustbringers and Stonewards would have to get lucky. Lightweavers would probably have a pretty equal fight, I'd give it a coin toss.

 

Skybreakers, Windrunners, and Elsecallers have a much harder fight, but I think they still win.

 

On a side note how do squires fit into this?

Because if we allows them the orders with them get a lot better.

[alder24]

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Copper, is copper.

Copperclouds affects sprens. With TLR level of power I think a copper can act similarly to how Void-Tower acted on sprens.

Spoiler

Keeper Exile

Would a Coppercloud at all affect how spren act?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

 

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

pewter would make them almost as strong as Shardplate

As strong but much faster.

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Abrasion would provide a good defense against projectiles, but they lost almost all of their mobility advantage.

Would it? Nale did easily stab Lift's clothes while she and clothes were awesome, and later kicked her (Edgedances ch 19), coins pushed with that power would likely still hit Radiant. Abrasion doesn't protect from being hit, just from grabing anc catching. Coppermind: "However, slicking doesn't reduce the force of direct collisions.^[74]"

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Transformation, I believe is one of the only surges that didn't lose anything in terms of usefulness. Trapping the Mistborn in an aluminum box would work just as well as it did before. Though you would definitely want to use aluminum, or other decidedly non-metals as otherwise they might be able to get out.

That box has to have very thick walls, otherwise a simple punch with flared pewter, or duralumin would be pushed through it. Coins pushed with duralumin would also most likely make a hole. But it's still a good tactic.

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Tension still has its place, and in fact might be the only surge to become more valuable. With direct investiture fueling a Mistborn would probably be almost as strong as Shardplate, so being able to increase your own strength is suddenly a lot more valuable.

Increase your own strength? You mean what Dalinar did when fixing the temple? I don't think it works like that for Stonewards, nor combat Bondsmith.

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

On a side note how do squires fit into this?

Because if we allows them the orders with them get a lot better.

1 on 1! Radiants still go on missions without squires, consider it like one.

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He could see them, but even Wax at that point couldn't push on their souls. And Radiants are far more invested.

He never tried but felt like he could. But Radiants might be too invested for that.

Edited February 25, 2023 by alder24

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

Copperclouds affects sprens. With TLR level of power I think a copper can act similarly to how Void-Tower acted on sprens.

  Reveal hidden contents

Keeper Exile

Would a Coppercloud at all affect how spren act?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

 

'An effect'

What effect exactly? No clue, but even if it did have that effect at 4th oath Kaladin and his spren seemed unaffected.

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

As strong but much faster.

I don't know about that, Dalinar was able to keep up with and even outpace his runners during the second attack on the Rift, and living plate is stronger.

6 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Would it? Nale did easily stab Lift's clothes while she and clothes were awesome, and later kicked her (Edgedances ch 19), coins pushed with that power would likely still hit Radiant. Abrasion doesn't protect from being hit, just from grabing anc catching. Coppermind: "However, slicking doesn't reduce the force of direct collisions.^[74]"

No, but it does make deflection easier. Plate is rounded, designed to cause arrows to slide out to the sides, rather than stop once they hit, with abrasion, only a fraction of the force would be imparted, and the coin would continue past them.

8 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Increase your own strength? You mean what Dalinar did when fixing the temple? I don't think it works like that for Stonewards, nor combat Bondsmith.

1. Why would it not?

2. Taln was able to pound on the doors of Kholinar with much more force than he should have had.

[alder24]

22 minutes ago, Frustration said:

1. Why would it not?

Because Dalinar was fixing the temple to its spiritual ideal. Radiant already reached his spiritual ideal.

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

2. Taln was able to pound on the doors of Kholinar with much more force than he should have had.

He didn't break the gate, he cut it with a Honorblade. He is a Herald with inhuman reflexes, they are different, it doesn't have to be a surge.

31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

What effect exactly? No clue, but even if it did have that effect at 4th oath Kaladin and his spren seemed unaffected.

True, but at that point Navani was already pushing Voidlight out of the Tower. But coppercloud of that strength most likely do "something" it's hard to say what. Maybe it will disrupt their ability to sense each other?

33 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I don't know about that, Dalinar was able to keep up with and even outpace his runners during the second attack on the Rift, and living plate is stronger.

He is bigger, he takes longer steps, stronger in legs then regular man. But plate won't provide much faster strikes, Stormlight won't make you faster at all. Pewter do.

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No, but it does make deflection easier. Plate is rounded, designed to cause arrows to slide out to the sides, rather than stop once they hit, with abrasion, only a fraction of the force would be imparted, and the coin would continue past them.

I don't think it would help. Deflection doesn't work because the surface is slippery, it's because of the angle the bullet struck its target, causing it to fail to penetrate. The forces applied would be still the same. The curved shape of a plate would help, but with the powers of this Mistborn it still could be too little in many situations. I don't know, I'm too stupid today to think about it in the right way.

[Frustration he/him]

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Because Dalinar was fixing the temple to its spiritual ideal. Radiant already reached his spiritual ideal.

And? The stone didn't move on its own, he had to push it into place, just like how he had to put statues back together, piece by piece.

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

He didn't break the gate, he cut it with a Honorblade. He is a Herald with inhuman reflexes, they are different, it doesn't have to be a surge.

He hit it with his fist first, and caused the whole thing to tremble, and given that Stonewards were the foot soldiers of the radiants, Dalinar lifting around 2,000 pounds, and all that, it seems pretty conclusive.

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

True, but at that point Navani was already pushing Voidlight out of the Tower. But coppercloud of that strength most likely do "something" it's hard to say what. Maybe it will disrupt their ability to sense each other?

The other radiants were still unconscious, and the Fused powers still worked.

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

He is bigger, he takes longer steps, stronger in legs then regular man. But plate won't provide much faster strikes, Stormlight won't make you faster at all. Pewter do.

Stormlight does make you faster, as shown by Kaladin at the battle of the Tower, it also increases your reaction speed, both are described by Kaladin on page 870 of WoK, chapter 62.

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I don't think it would help. Deflection doesn't work because the surface is slippery, it's because of the angle the bullet struck its target, causing it to fail to penetrate. The forces applied would be still the same. The curved shape of a plate would help, but with the powers of this Mistborn it still could be too little in many situations. 

Have you ever slipped on ice?

The reason is that force, in thus case you weight, is reflected away from where you set your foot down.

This is the same principle.

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I don't know, I'm too stupid today to think about it in the right way.

I know that feeling.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Frustration

[alder24]

10 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And? The stone didn't move on its own, he had to push it into place, just like how he had to put statues back together, piece by piece.

He hit it with his fist first, and caused the whole thing to tremble, and given that Stonewards were the foot soldiers of the radiants, Dalinar lifting around 2,000 pounds, and all that, it seems pretty conclusive.

This looks more like adhesion, that pulling the pieces back together, yes Dalinar has to lift it and put it in its place, but adhesion helps. Talk to me again when Daliar lifts 1t piece of rock that never was part of an ancient temple.

19 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Have you ever slipped on ice?

Did you ever see a bullet hitting an ice surface? It leaves behind a big hole https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcvzQvIHeqU

20 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The reason is that force, in thus case you weight, is reflected away from where you set your foot down.

There is no deflection, it's simply because there is no grip, and force vector components are giving you direction of movement. You still step on the ice with the same force, as if it was a concret, you just don't have a grip to stop the movement into secondary directions. No friction. That's what this is all about, friction. And friction has an equation, which has a coefficient in it. Make coefficient equal 0, you have 0 friction but still have a force acting on the surface with the same value.

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Stormlight does make you faster, as shown by Kaladin at the battle of the Tower, it also increases your reaction speed, both are described by Kaladin on page 870 of WoK, chapter 62.

Ok, it is described as moving faster, but this kind of pewter would still make you even faster. 

 

[IlstrawberrySeed]

10 hours ago, therunner said:

Or not, depends on context.

To the topic at hand, I'll focus on only Windrunner primarily for other Orders we know too little (I think Elsecaller can still easily win by moving to CR as usual and soulcasting as needed).

I'll assume both have equal amount of Investiture available to them, since both are fueled by it. Then several questions will be important:

1. Who has more efficient powers?
2. Will A-Pewter fueled by Investiture heal as well as Stormlight (i.e. ability to heal damage to soul)?
3. Can they affect Shardplate/Shardblade?
4. How will direct Investiture fuel affect bendalloy bubbles?
5. What happens to Investiture when Mistborn uses A-Duralumin? Is it all burned off at once?
6. Will the pure Investiture allow them to mimic Atium?
7. How far could they see with Electrum?

Personally I think the answers would be

1. Neither is much more efficient, Lashings are more efficient for mobility (Radiant applies them to themselves, improving it compared to affecting other metal sources), however Mistborn will have more powers running at once diminishing them.
2. I think A-Pewter will heal well when fueled by raw Investiture, but not as well as e.g. compounded Gold or even Stormlight. Pewter healing seems to be extremely minor side-effect, more to help maintain function despite damage then actual healing (e.g. Vin still takes months to fully heal broken ribs and internal damage, despite burning pewter nearly non-stop).
3. I don't think they would be able to affect either Shardplate or Shardblade, the power required is on order of Well of Ascension, which is beyond being 'just' fueled by pure Investiture.
4. The bendalloy compression factor would be far greater most likely, allowing Mistborn to take 'breaks' in the middle of the fight to strategize, and rest up.
5. I think trying to use Investiture as A-duralumin would probably burn of all of the Investiture? All powers are fueled now from the same source, and A-duralumin completly uses up given source, so that makes sense to me. Possibly with proper Intent they could only burn off portion they cognitively designated for the given metal.
6. I don't think pure Investiture would allow for mimic of Atium (or other Godmetals), even when Elend was fueled directly by Preservation, only the Atium he actually held could be burned.
7. If they could see further than 2-3 seconds, then Radiant has little chance of winning.

 

Sounds like it would be quite a fight to me, and I might actually give a bit of an edge to the Mistborn.

The pushed coins/objects should be fast enough to present danger to the Shardplate, so Windrunner would have to be quite careful and use Reverse Lashing generously for defense.
Windrunner still has mobility advantage, close quarters offensive advantage, and could use Shardblade for defense (i.e. unbreakable shield).

I think Reverse Lashings are the most efficient of the Lashings (please correct me if I am wrong), so Mistborn would run out of Investiture sooner if only attacking from distance (as the Reverse Lashing would be strong enough to draw coins off course), forcing close quarters.

In close quarters, Electrum will be major advantage, if it would see further then 2-3 seconds. Radiant at least can sever limbs, which won't be easily noticeable on the Electrum as there would be no physical damage. Then if A-Pewter cannot heal spiritual damage, it would be easier.

Honestly, yeah I think Mistborn has advantage here, mainly from Electrum and Bendalloy. Remove those two, and I would say Windrunner would edge them out again.

1. Mistborn are incredibly investiture effecient if they want to be.

2. I don't think so - Pewter seems to allow you to ignore pain and damage while enhance natural healing slightly. You might be able to heal like gold from physical wounds.

3. I belive they can, but it would expend an amount about equal to that in the shardpiece. An utter waste, considering they can just reform/resummon it.

4. Bendalloy would be beast.

5. Taking in peices were already mentioned, but it should use all the investiture.

6. Because it is unkeyed, it might allow alloys. I'd say go with no pure metal, as the magic of Shardmetals is from the metal, while the magic of Surgebinding and Allomancy is in the spiritweb. I'd say if they had it, they'd win easy, so lets regulate it to 2 seperate discussions if anyone thinks extra power Nalatium visions wouldn't cause the allomancer to win.

7. I agree.

8. Is savanting allowed? they win easy with pewter Savanting, Aluminum Savanting (Stop RL on them) and Bendalloy Savanting.

9. What tech level for each? If the radiant has a shardgun, they win hands down. That doesn't use investure, while pushing on it drains the mistborn faster than they can break the plate. If the mistborn has Era 2 mundane tech then the mistborn gets another advantage, but if the radiant gets fabrials &/or raysdium even if the mistborn gets scadrian magitech, they loose unless they can gold compound &/or steel compound.

 

Also, a strong enough mistborn can push on airborn metals. This won't provide the lift necessary without F-I, but if medalians/hemalurgy are added, the mistborn is better at maneuverability, though slightly less effecient at slower speeds, and a lot worse at extended flight.

Radiant wins if they fly away and mistborn has to chase them, they get fabrials & mistborn cannot compound, or they go to space. Agaisnt non-gravatation, the mistborn seems to win or stalemate pretty consistently. Abrasion might be able to do a similar tactic of sliding away, but without the 3d aspect the windrunner can use the horseshoe trick and be more investiture effecient except in very specific enviornment of a downhill slop that cannot be pushed on. A Bondsmith's powers have a range of touch, so even they might dare to loose, but we really don't know what's possible if they go to the CR or what enhanced copper or aluminum savanthood might do to other magics. 

[Frustration he/him]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

This looks more like adhesion, that pulling the pieces back together, yes Dalinar has to lift it and put it in its place, but adhesion helps. Talk to me again when Daliar lifts 1t piece of rock that never was part of an ancient temple.

How on earth does that look like Adhesion?

How does Adhesion give you increased strength?

Tension at least makes sense.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Did you ever see a bullet hitting an ice surface? It leaves behind a big hole https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcvzQvIHeqU

There is no deflection, it's simply because there is no grip, and force vector components are giving you direction of movement. You still step on the ice with the same force, as if it was a concret, you just don't have a grip to stop the movement into secondary directions. No friction. That's what this is all about, friction. And friction has an equation, which has a coefficient in it. Make coefficient equal 0, you have 0 friction but still have a force acting on the surface with the same value.

The point stands, coating shardplate in a zero friction surface will allow it to deflect most forms of direct damage.

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Ok, it is described as moving faster, but this kind of pewter would still make you even faster.

Shardplate+stormlight would be about equal.

Perhaps not as fast, but pretty close.

3 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

1. Mistborn are incredibly investiture effecient if they want to be.

Well so is everyone, the question here is: Can they afford to be?

3 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

2. I don't think so - Pewter seems to allow you to ignore pain and damage while enhance natural healing slightly. You might be able to heal like gold from physical wounds.

It would certainly increase the speed you healed at, but why would it let you heal things you normally couldn't?

3 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

3. I belive they can, but it would expend an amount about equal to that in the shardpiece. An utter waste, considering they can just reform/resummon it.

How would they get to Well of Ascention levels?

3 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

6. Because it is unkeyed, it might allow alloys. I'd say go with no pure metal, as the magic of Shardmetals is from the metal, while the magic of Surgebinding and Allomancy is in the spiritweb. I'd say if they had it, they'd win easy, so lets regulate it to 2 seperate discussions if anyone thinks extra power Nalatium visions wouldn't cause the allomancer to win.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Elend couldn't replicate Atium's effects because he didn't have the native ability to use it, and had to acquire it from an outside source. It's the same reason why Marasi can only use Dor to supercharge her Cadmium, rather than steelpushing or what not.

3 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

Also, a strong enough mistborn can push on airborn metals. This won't provide the lift necessary without F-I, but if medalians/hemalurgy are added, the mistborn is better at maneuverability, though slightly less effecient at slower speeds, and a lot worse at extended flight.

F-iron

Pushing on airborn metals would only push them down, not keep the mistborn in the air.

And let's try to keep this with native ability(at least for the first few pages), otherwise a whole host of problems get introduced.

3 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

8. Is savanting allowed? they win easy with pewter Savanting, Aluminum Savanting (Stop RL on them) and Bendalloy Savanting.

Burning aluminum would completely wipe out their investiture reserves.

Personally I'm okay with savantism being allowed, but only is Squires are as well.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 2/25/2023 at 2:13 PM, Frustration said:

Well so is everyone, the question here is: Can they afford to be?

It would certainly increase the speed you healed at, but why would it let you heal things you normally couldn't?

How would they get to Well of Ascention levels?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Elend couldn't replicate Atium's effects because he didn't have the native ability to use it, and had to acquire it from an outside source. It's the same reason why Marasi can only use Dor to supercharge her Cadmium, rather than steelpushing or what not.

F-iron

Pushing on airborn metals would only push them down, not keep the mistborn in the air.

And let's try to keep this with native ability(at least for the first few pages), otherwise a whole host of problems get introduced.

Burning aluminum would completely wipe out their investiture reserves.

Personally I'm okay with savantism being allowed, but only is Squires are as well.

What I'm saying is regular abilities are incredibly efficient - a baseline that provides a decent fight for a radiant, will be able to outlast the radiant if they can survive with baseline abilities. Most MB vs Radiants that go to the Radiant are usually decent fights, with give and take. If the mistborn only has to use extra fuel 2-3 times before the radiant runs out, the mistborn can win.

If it increases speed enough, it should allow you to heal anything normal pewter would let you ignore until you die - not necessarily at the speed of gold, but to similar effects, especially with bendalloy bubbles.

"New alloys" was supposed to be shard alloys, but I agree it probobly doesn't and should be treated as not for the purpose of this conversation. I wish there was a way to create sub-context, like have the regular discussion, but also a way to hide points specifically in possibility X or Scenario Y.

Sorry. Again, only if they were lighter than it. See above.

Same as Durilium, with a very different use set.

Ah. I'm going to list all options for both sides that could be discussed, but I agree should wait a bit, at least until the active people have agreed or fought for 3 days. Again see above.

• Savantism
• Compounding (unkeyed metalminds)
• Shardmetals/alloys
• Era 2 weapons
• Primer cubes
• offensive hemalurgy (spiking opponent)
• Medalians and personal Hemalurgy
• Non-Human (applies to both, switching point)
• Honorblades
• Multiple Bonds
• Squires
• Fabrials (SB or Mech)
• Larkin
• Raysdium weapons
• Ranged shardweapons 
• Dawnshards

Specifically, what do you think would be roughly even for buffs. squires seem pretty much a universal opponent against any 1/2 extra the mistborn has, a consecutive bond is probably a little worse than squires depending on order, non-human mistborn isn't much of a buff, but a FoP or Sleepless radiant is a lot better.

Edited February 27, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed

[Frustration he/him]

16 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

What I'm saying is regular abilities are incredibly efficient - a baseline that provides a decent fight for a radiant, will be able to outlast the radiant if they can survive with baseline abilities. Most MB vs Radiants that go to the Radiant are usually decent fights, with give and take. If the mistborn only has to use extra fuel 2-3 times before the radiant runs out, the mistborn can win.

I don't think regular metal useage would be enough, as it severely cuts down on pretty much all of your options.

16 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

If it increases speed enough, it should allow you to heal anything normal pewter would let you ignore until you die - not necessarily at the speed of gold, but to similar effects, especially with bendalloy bubbles.

It might heal quicker, but shattered limbs or ribs wouldn't be fixed in enough time to be useful. Nor would you be able to heal shardblade wounds.

16 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

Ah. I'm going to list all options for both sides that could be discussed, but I agree should wait a bit, at least until the active people have agreed or fought for 3 days. Again see above.

• Savantism
• Shardmetals/alloys

Era 2 weapons

• Primer cubes
• offensive hemalurgy (spiking opponent)
• Medalians and personal Hemalurgy
• Non-Human (applies to both, switching point)
• Honorblades
• Multiple Bonds
• Squires
• Fabrials (SB or Mech)
• Larkin
• Raysdium weapons
• Ranged shardweapons 
• Dawnshards

Specifically, what do you think would be roughly even for buffs. squires seem pretty much a universal opponent against any 1/2 extra the mistborn has, a consecutive bond is probably a little worse than squires depending on order, non-human mistborn isn't much of a buff, but a FoP or Sleepless radiant is a lot better.

• I don't think Dawnshards should be included, as whoever gets one wins, pretty much regardless of what the other person has.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Frustration

[alder24]

49 minutes ago, Frustration said:

How on earth does that look like Adhesion?

How does Adhesion give you increased strength?

Tension at least makes sense.

Not strength, but object's will to be combined back together. What Dalinar did was a combination of Tension and Adhesion, but I still don't believe it just gave him increased strength.

51 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The point stands, coating shardplate in a zero friction surface will allow it to deflect most forms of direct damage.

No, it doesn't. I disagree. Some maybe, most not. Especially in this case when Mistborn can push with such strength.

34 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

If it increases speed enough, it should allow you to heal anything normal pewter would let you ignore until you die - not necessarily at the speed of gold, but to similar effects, especially with bendalloy bubbles.

Pewter doesn't heal like gold. It took months for Vin to heal her wound in TFE. Deadly wounds would still be deadly, even for this pure investiture Mistborn. It might take him a few more minutes to realize that, but it will kill him, and any soul wounds would be permanent.

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, alder24 said:

Not strength, but object's will to be combined back together. What Dalinar did was a combination of Tension and Adhesion, but I still don't believe it just gave him increased strength.

If it didn't give him the strength how did he move it?

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

No, it doesn't. I disagree. Some maybe, most not. Especially in this case when Mistborn can push with such strength.

Lets look at it this way:

We have two situations, one in which I drop down a ten foot shaft, and the other where I go down ten feet in a slide.

Droping down the shaft will hurt, but going down the slide will not, despite the same amount of force being present. The reason is because the force was spread out over different amounts of time.

Similarly, with complete abrasion on the plate, the coin will slide off of the radiant, only forcing their plate to absorb a small amount of the total energy, whereas without the abrasion the plate has to absorb much more.

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

Lets look at it this way:

We have two situations, one in which I drop down a ten foot shaft, and the other where I go down ten feet in a slide.

Droping down the shaft will hurt, but going down the slide will not, despite the same amount of force being present. The reason is because the force was spread out over different amounts of time.

You're ready for some physics? 

Those are not the same forces, on a slide you also have force of reaction (Newton's 3rd law) pushing on you in the reaction to you sitting on it. The sum of those forces is pointing in a different direction. With the use of my superior Paint/Gimp skills, I prepared a visual help to make you understand what Abrasion is doing. Beware:

Spoiler

I hope you can see the text clearly. You have the force of reaction from Newton's 3rd law, acting both on the slide and the object (green arrow), force of gravity (blue), and air drag/friction (red - note there is only one force of friction acting on the body in the second image, I put the second one to see how the Fsumpurple is calculated). When you sum up the force of gravity and the reaction force, you have the yellow sum vector - but then you subtract from it friction/drag, and end up only with the purple vector. The purple vector is the final vector that defines the motion and acceleration of this object down the slide. If that was a person, this would be his "resultant vector". But if that was an Edgedancer, using a surge of Abrasion, he would only get rid of the red friction vector, and his resultant vector would be the bigger, yellow one. This is THE ONLY force that Abrasion is canceling out. All the other forces of impact, reaction, gravity etc. are still affecting the object and the slide as normal.

Note that in case of the Freefall the air drag resistance is increasing up with increase of the speed of the object, until reaching terminal velocity (when the drag force is the same length as the force of gravity), but in case of the slide, kinetic friction doesn't increase with the speed of the object sliding down the slide - it's the same from the beginning of the motion, till the end. Of course in case of the slide there is also air drag acting on the object, which I didn't include as there would be too many confusing arrows, but keep in mind it's there, and with Abrasion, this is also canceled out. In case of the slide these two forces, friction and air drag, are the only forces that are canceled out by Abrasion. 

I hope you understand it now.

[Frustration he/him]

On 2/26/2023 at 5:47 AM, alder24 said:

You're ready for some physics? 

Those are not the same forces, on a slide you also have force of reaction (Newton's 3rd law) pushing on you in the reaction to you sitting on it. The sum of those forces is pointing in a different direction. With the use of my superior Paint/Gimp skills, I prepared a visual help to make you understand what Abrasion is doing. Beware:

  Hide contents

I hope you can see the text clearly. You have the force of reaction from Newton's 3rd law, acting both on the slide and the object (green arrow), force of gravity (blue), and air drag/friction (red - note there is only one force of friction acting on the body in the second image, I put the second one to see how the Fsumpurple is calculated). When you sum up the force of gravity and the reaction force, you have the yellow sum vector - but then you subtract from it friction/drag, and end up only with the purple vector. The purple vector is the final vector that defines the motion and acceleration of this object down the slide. If that was a person, this would be his "resultant vector". But if that was an Edgedancer, using a surge of Abrasion, he would only get rid of the red friction vector, and his resultant vector would be the bigger, yellow one. This is THE ONLY force that Abrasion is canceling out. All the other forces of impact, reaction, gravity etc. are still affecting the object and the slide as normal.

Note that in case of the Freefall the air drag resistance is increasing up with increase of the speed of the object, until reaching terminal velocity (when the drag force is the same length as the force of gravity), but in case of the slide, kinetic friction doesn't increase with the speed of the object sliding down the slide - it's the same from the beginning of the motion, till the end. Of course in case of the slide there is also air drag acting on the object, which I didn't include as there would be too many confusing arrows, but keep in mind it's there, and with Abrasion, this is also canceled out. In case of the slide these two forces, friction and air drag, are the only forces that are canceled out by Abrasion. 

I hope you understand it now.

1. Your paint skills are quite impressive you must be very proud
2. Yes there would be a force of impact, no one is denying that, but as we see when Lift slicks herself and she jumps off of something and goes flying away after landing, that impact is only a tiny portion of the total energy, the rest of which is retained by the object, in this case the coin, which remains in motion.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Frustration

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

• Your paint skills are quite impressive you must be very proud

Not really, I couldn't rotate those arrows in paint so I switched to gimp.

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Yes there would be a force of impact, no one is denying that, but as we see when Lift slicks herself and she jumps off of something and goes flying away after landing, that impact is only a tiny portion of the total energy, the rest of which is retained by the object, in this case the coin, which remains in motion.

I'm not saying that there would be no "sliding", what I'm saying is that every impact that would be deflected normally with friction, would be also deflected without friction as well. It all depends on the angle of an impact. When you run and jump, you still have momentum pushing you forward, so even with friction, after landing, you will keep running forward with ease (and because friction is acting only between your feet and ground, not on your whole body). But when you run, jump and hit an angled wall, you will lose most of your energy by hitting a wall, as it's stopping your forward momentum.

I even read some scientific paper about frictionless impact on rigid surface. In it, a bullet hitting an impenetrable wall will deform and crack faster without friction, than with friction - as a bullet without friction has a higher energy, because friction causes the bullet to lose energy to heat on impact. I don't want to talk about how friction matters during penetration, because I don't know, I'm just saying that force of impact is still the same with or without friction, any impact that would be deflected normally, would be deflected without friction, and any impact that would normally "penetrate" an armor, would also "penetrate" it without friction.Any damage caused by a bullet with a friction will be caused by a bullet without a friction, because the force of impact is still the same (just like a bullet hitting an ice, losing most of its energy and creating a hole in in, but retaining enough of it to spin on the "frictionless" ice surface).

[Frustration he/him]

21 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Not really, I couldn't rotate those arrows in paint so I switched to gimp.

Regardless I could not do that.

21 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I'm not saying that there would be no "sliding", what I'm saying is that every impact that would be deflected normally with friction, would be also deflected without friction as well. It all depends on the angle of an impact. When you run and jump, you still have momentum pushing you forward, so even with friction, after landing, you will keep running forward with ease (and because friction is acting only between your feet and ground, not on your whole body). But when you run, jump and hit an angled wall, you will lose most of your energy by hitting a wall, as it's stopping your forward momentum.

I even read some scientific paper about frictionless impact on rigid surface. In it, a bullet hitting an impenetrable wall will deform and crack faster without friction, than with friction - as a bullet without friction has a higher energy, because friction causes the bullet to lose energy to heat on impact. I don't want to talk about how friction matters during penetration, because I don't know, I'm just saying that force of impact is still the same with or without friction, any impact that would be deflected normally, would be deflected without friction, and any impact that would normally "penetrate" an armor, would also "penetrate" it without friction.Any damage caused by a bullet with a friction will be caused by a bullet without a friction, because the force of impact is still the same (just like a bullet hitting an ice, losing most of its energy and creating a hole in in, but retaining enough of it to spin on the "frictionless" ice surface).

Speaking of my inability to do things, I am shamelessly stealing this video to aid my argument, because I could not make it on my own.

Spoiler

 

So, as you can see when the bullet hits this wall the collision does not end when the front of the bullet hits, but continues until the back has as well.

However, if that wall was frictionless, as well as curved, without any loss of strength, the front of the bullet would hit, and since it couldn't stop there, it would deflect away, and the energy from the back of the bullet would not be absorbed, leading to an overall decrease in the amount of force exerted on the plate.

[alder24]

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

So, as you can see when the bullet hits this wall the collision does not end when the front of the bullet hits, but continues until the back has as well.

However, if that wall was frictionless, as well as curved, without any loss of strength, the front of the bullet would hit, and since it couldn't stop there, it would deflect away, and the energy from the back of the bullet would not be absorbed, leading to an overall decrease in the amount of force exerted on the plate.

Like I said, it does depend on the angle of an impact. If the angle is too sharp, the bullet will ricochet, because of what you described. But during a deflection, impact force exerted on a surface will be the same with or without friction.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:01 PM, Frustration said:

I don't think regular metal useage would be enough, as it severely cuts down on pretty much all of your options.

It might heal quicker, but shattered limbs or ribs wouldn't be fixed in enough time to be useful. Nor would you be able to heal shardblade wounds.

• I don't think Dawnshards should be included, as whoever gets one wins, pretty much regardless of what the other person has.

If the mistborn plays purely to survive - they can run away faster than the non-flying radiants, and even those MB should be able to survive without running out while the radiant attacks. I agree they would have to expend a little extra - but not near so much as the radiant needs to expend to hurt the mistborn. 

See below

I agree. I mearly listed all possible optional buffs or whatnot that can be discussed on page 5 or in a few days. Also added compounding unsealed metalminds.

On 2/25/2023 at 3:25 PM, alder24 said:

Pewter doesn't heal like gold. It took months for Vin to heal her wound in TFE. Deadly wounds would still be deadly, even for this pure investiture Mistborn. It might take him a few more minutes to realize that, but it will kill him, and any soul wounds would be permanent.

I never said it healed like gold - I said super pewter would heal physical woulds similar to gold. Deadly wounds might not be deadly to super-pewter, isn't it more difficult to get a pewter user to die of blood loss? It won't heal near as fast without super-bendalloy, but with super-pewter and super-bendalloy, it should heal any cumbersome wound in a few radiant seconds.

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

I never said it healed like gold - I said super pewter would heal physical woulds similar to gold. Deadly wounds might not be deadly to super-pewter, isn't it more difficult to get a pewter user to die of blood loss? It won't heal near as fast without super-bendalloy, but with super-pewter and super-bendalloy, it should heal any cumbersome wound in a few radiant seconds.

With which I disagree. Even a supercharged Mistborn would still need days, if not more, to heal a serious physical wound (like Vin's in TFE). Even with bendalloy it wouldn't work. And most wounds made by a Radiant would be made by a Shardblade, which pewter won't heal.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

With which I disagree. Even a supercharged Mistborn would still need days, if not more, to heal a serious physical wound (like Vin's in TFE). Even with bendalloy it wouldn't work. And most wounds made by a Radiant would be made by a Shardblade, which pewter won't heal.

Why would basically an annoying bullet hole (through mussel I suspect, but don't know for sure) not heal quickly enough to be fine in a bendalloy bubble? It wouldn't heal a shardblade wound, and possibly not even the destruction surge. However, a mistborn should stay out of range for long enough that the radiant turns into someone with living plate and blade without light.

[alder24]

24 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

Why would basically an annoying bullet hole (through mussel I suspect, but don't know for sure) not heal quickly enough to be fine in a bendalloy bubble?

I will repeat myself, as a clearly left comparison to the most severe known case of pewter healing timing - LIKE VIN'S WOUND IN TFE!

Radiants don't have guns. And If Windrunners/Skybreakers chose to lash rocks into a Mistborn, those would be a fist sized, not bullet size. That wound would still require days/weeks of pewter enhanced healing. Bendalloy won't help.