Tress of the Emerald Sea Reactions (Cosmere Edition)

[lacrossedeamon]

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

I was very surprised Brandon wrote: "...since Sazed released the Kandra".

Why wouldn't Brandon obfuscate a huge Era 1 spoiler about Sazed by just saying "Harmony"instead. But then it hit me that maybe Discord has taken over and Brandon CANT say Harmony anymore.  

We are actually talking about that over here:

 

[Honorless he/him]

Excuse me, just listing the Aethers we got so far

Twelve Oceans + Twelve Moons + Twelve (Thirteen) Aethers

Emerald Sea for Verdant, which grows vegetation

Rose Sea for Roseite which grows (silicate?) crystals

Sapphire Sea for Zephyr, air

Crimson Sea for unnamed, spikes

Midnight Sea for Midnight Essence

unnamed Sea for Sunlight, light

The thirteenth Bone spores Aether (I wonder if that refers to Fainlife? Did Fainlife come from Aethers?)

 

So... the Midnight Mother is a Corrupted Aether

Also the Ire built Elantris! Called it! (Hoid needed membership to a group to become Elantrian)

I think Hoid was narrating the story to someone from First of the Sun, given how he was talking about magitech and the way he referenced navigation & Aviar

That rocket at the end killed me 

As did the laptops, hah. I think those are Seons?

Lightweaving is scary. It really only sank in with the Sorceress using it

Aons are really the best magic. Creating geas and transmogrification & mental curses. So scary!

White Sand... is making me really curious with how it behaves, it's very similar to Aethers. Also seriously, that magic just looks more and more pathetic with time.

Also that's two people (possibly two Dragons) living beneath a sea, studying Aethers (or perhaps Xisis and Foil are the same entity?)

Oh and Hoid referred to capital-F Fate again, and referred to her as "her", so... the final Shard?

Luhel Bond, a new kind of Bond! 

Also how the metals influence other magics. It's interesting that Preservation’s alteration of metals? means they have an effect beyond that of the Metallic Arts. First Fabrials, now this. I wonder how the other metals might work with Aethers!

First canonical appearance of Dragonsteel!

It was mentioned in The Lost Metal that the legend of Ironeyes has spread onto other worlds, kinda like the Cosmere version of the Grim Reaper, but I was still surprised when Triss directly referenced him!

 

Also Hoid said something very alarming:

Quote

“I once ate an entire rock. Had to fight off its family first though.”

Uh-oh. RIP Rock

/just kidding... hopefully

Edited January 27, 2023 by Honorless
added a few things

[AquaRegia he/him]

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

I think Hoid was narrating the story to someone from First of the Sun, given how he was talking about magitech and the way he referenced navigation & Aviar

I believe a majority, but not all, agree with this.  It seems the most likely explanation to me.

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

Also that's two people (possibly two Dragons) living beneath a sea, studying Aethers (or perhaps Xisis and Foil are the same entity?)

Most of us are on board with Xisis = Foil.  Two different dragons, at the bottom of two different oceans, both studying Aethers...?  Too much coincidence.  This, together with the facts that his full name is Xisisrefliel, and that plenty of immortal Cosmere beings have multiple aliases, is more than enough to satisfy me.

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

Oh and Hoid referred to capital-F Fate again, and referred to her as "her", so... the final Shard?

Possible, but my gut says no.  When Hoid talks about Shards, he usually refers to them by the name of the Vessel, not the Shard name.  I think it's more likely he's just personifying Fortune here, but I don't feel strongly either way.

[StormingTexan he/him]

40 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

Possible, but my gut says no.  When Hoid talks about Shards, he usually refers to them by the name of the Vessel, not the Shard name.  I think it's more likely he's just personifying Fortune here, but I don't feel strongly either way.

Or possible referring to a Dawnshard as some people have suspected. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by StormingTexan

[Elegy he/him]

A Dawnshard should probably be a verb. A Shard name, on the other hand, should be something that can be strived towards. I can't really imagine how a person who has entirely become fate would work, as opposed to Honor, Ruin, etc.

It makes sense to me that it would have something to do with the "destiny" mentioned in the Hemalurgy chart - some kind of future that the Spiritual Realm intends for individuals. It could be similar to how Returned get brought back with a purpose. Maybe every person in the cosmere has something like that to a degree, just not on the same level.

[Cocoa he/him]

On 1/16/2023 at 11:52 AM, SingleSoul said:

A thing I noticed. Hoid refers to Kelsier by saying “a push for every pull an old adversary of mine always says.” Does the use of present tense “says” mean that Kelsier is still around at this point in time? (I am not a native English speaker, so I may misinterpret the significance.)

That's the implication, yes.

On 1/17/2023 at 1:20 PM, teknopathetic said:

I was very surprised Brandon wrote: "...since Sazed released the Kandra".

Why wouldn't Brandon obfuscate a huge Era 1 spoiler about Sazed by just saying "Harmony"instead. But then it hit me that maybe Discord has taken over and Brandon CANT say Harmony anymore.  

I suspect as much myself, but I don't think it's a sure thing. Hoid and Saze seem to get on reasonably well in their letters, Hoid's casually referred to Shardholders by their pre-ascension names before, and I believe Kelsier and Marsh have simply referred to him as "Sazed/Saze" a few times as well.

[lacrossedeamon]

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

Excuse me, just listing the Aethers we got so far

Twelve Oceans + Twelve Moons + Twelve (Thirteen) Aethers

Emerald Sea for Verdant, which grows vegetation

Rose Sea for Roseite which grows (silicate?) crystals

Sapphire Sea for Zephyr, air

Crimson Sea for unnamed, spikes

Midnight Sea for Midnight Essence

unnamed Sea for Sunlight, light

The thirteenth Bone spores Aether (I wonder if that refers to Fainlife? Did Fainlife come from Aethers?)

...

White Sand... is making me really curious with how it behaves, it's very similar to Aethers. Also seriously, that magic just looks more and more pathetic with time.

With AoN there's 3 other Aethers possibly known (Ferrous, Bestarin, Illuminous) which leads credence to the theory that 10 of the Aethers correlate to the Ten Essences with the remaining two probably being Midnight and Illuminous. I think the prevailing theory is that the Bone spores is connected to Sandmastery with the locals just thinking it's a new type of Aether due to the similarity. The discussing about the colors of the presumed bone spores is similar to the the sand changing colors as its invested state changes. As per DSP Fainlife possibly has an adverse reaction to silver (possibly also related to what's going on with Threnody) so that could be a connection although in his WOB he seems to consider Fain and Aethers very separate.

13 hours ago, Honorless said:

As did the laptops, hah. I think those are Seons?

 I think they are just actually laptops but use Awakening for some of its functions.

[MGershone]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:12 PM, lacrossedeamon said:

Ferrous

Is this some kind of metal spore? How would that function?

Also, there's a moment in the book, when Tress is facing off with crow in front of xisis, where it says "Tress’s courage had never gotten away, though it had been pounded flat by all the other emotions. As it began to shine through, a certain whimsy struck Tress." why would he use the word whimsy? I think we are being told that Lumar's Shard is Whimsy

Edited February 3, 2023 by MGershone

[lacrossedeamon]

27 minutes ago, MGershone said:

Is this some kind of metal spore? How would that function?

Well its from the trunked AoN novel where it turned the user into some sort of metal machine called a corpate. Aethers seemed to have changed a bit since his first draft though. I assume it functions similar to roseite but with generating metal rather than crystal.

29 minutes ago, MGershone said:

Also, there's a moment in the book, when Tress is facing off with crow in front of xisis, where it says "Tress’s courage had never gotten away, though it had been pounded flat by all the other emotions. As it began to shine through, a certain whimsy struck Tress." why would he use the word whimsy? I think we are being told that Lumar's Shard is Whimsy

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Elegy he/him]

6 hours ago, MGershone said:

Also, there's a moment in the book, when Tress is facing off with crow in front of xisis, where it says "Tress’s courage had never gotten away, though it had been pounded flat by all the other emotions. As it began to shine through, a certain whimsy struck Tress." why would he use the word whimsy? I think we are being told that Lumar's Shard is Whimsy

Whimsy is the only Shard that is semi-confirmed to be not relevant for Lumar:

Quote

Letters Words

Will we learn which Shard is associated with Tress's world, if any, and/or the name of her world at some point in the novel?

Brandon Sanderson

You will not hear the name of her world somewhere in the novel. (You heard it on this stream.) It's possible, actually, that I'll add it in now that we've got a name for it. It's possible, in that case.

Which Shard is associated? Well, I'll leave that to you to theorize, so that one is a RAFO, I'm afraid.

Secret Project #1 Reveal and Livestream (March 8, 2022)

Then later that stream (after using the word whimsical several times):

Quote

Kellyn

The chat is very much reading into your use of "whimsy."

Brandon Sanderson

I know. They should, instead, read into something earlier I said in the stream.

Secret Project #1 Reveal and Livestream (March 8, 2022)

And no, we still don't know what it was he was alluding to, although I still think it's this one:

Quote

MoriWillow

The spores react to water with sudden growth, which is very similar to Dayside lichen. Is the lichen an aether, or significantly related to the aethers? 

Brandon Sanderson

Read the book. That's a RAFO, but there are some clues in Secret Project One. 

Secret Project #1 Reveal and Livestream (March 8, 2022)

So the Shard might be Autonomy (yet again), given the bone spore part that seems to hint at Taldain Dayside sand on Lumar.

[FollowYourMuse she/her]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:16 PM, Cocoa said:

The more the Cosmere gets fleshed out, the more I notice that certain characters have shades of earlier ones worked into them. Fort is the proverbial lovechild of Rock and Rysn (though I can't say he inherited any of the former's cooking skills). Tress is a girl that Shallan could have been if the Davars hadn't been dysfunctional. The ship's crew are outlaws (though admittedly, less by their own choice) desperate for someone to tell them that there's a way back to the people they used to be, much like the shattered plains deserters. This repetition isn't a bad thing, though I'm not certain it really needs to be "good" either. Just a neutral-if-interesting observation on the repetition of stories and character traits, and the patterns that form when you look at the Cosmere on a large enough scale.

I think this repetition worked very well for a story that is being told by Hoid, it fits patterns of oral tradition and fairytales, which have typical archetypes and  familiar characters. 

[Aleph-Naught he/him]

On 2/3/2023 at 5:40 PM, Elegy said:

Whimsy is the only Shard that is semi-confirmed to be not relevant for Lumar:

...

So the Shard might be Autonomy (yet again), given the bone spore part that seems to hint at Taldain Dayside sand on Lumar.

The first thing that came to mind with the "bone spore" reference was the Fain on Yolen.

Overall I liked the book. Like some people I was a bit concerned about how the narrative name dropped colloquial terms / ideas that I always felt Brandon tried to avoid as much as possible. This concern was ameliorated a bit when he mentioned The Princess Bride inspiration for the book--if I recall correctly, that book also had a tendency to purposefully let modern day references seep into the narrative; talking about the "felony murder rule" was probably the most egregious (and I think unnecessary) example of this.

My gripe could just be the criminal defense attorney in me having a fit, but there was a better way to get to the same result without simply name dropping the "felony murder rule". Brandon could have talked about the concept of transferred intent, something that this book points out is very important to realmatic theory. The felony murder rule isn't applicable in all states, England abolished it, Scotland doesn't have it, and it suggests that the Cosmere: 1. has an equivalent to English Common law, and 2. that the law most likely has a hierarchy when it comes to the alleged seriousness of the criminal behavior (i.e. misdemeanors vs. felonies). But English Common Law isn't the only possible system of jurisprudence, and it feels like a constraint on the possibilities within the Cosmere to so blatantly suggest that's the system in place.

But this may be a necessary evil because there was also more hints about what "contracts" may entail in the Cosmere, and despite the arguments I have made in the past about the misunderstood malleability of a contract--how they're formed, defenses to the formation, defenses to enforcement of them, etc.--it looks like Brandon is choosing to be more rigid when it comes to their creation/enforcement, most likely as a narrative necessity. Oh well, I'll still devour the prose regardless.

[alder24]

Oh wow. I finally got TotES yesterday, and consumed it like TenSoon consumes a new dog body. It was just wow. I don't know where to start. The story was amazing and beautiful, the characters were fun and intriguing, the worldbuilding was just brilliant, and writing was cheerful, light - I didn’t even feel the passage of time. 

I like so much that Tress went through her story without getting into physical fights, without wounding and killing anybody. The way she resolved her problems was with intelligence, innovation and planning. Her empathy and friendliness were her main weapon and it was so great to read how she slowly became a part of the crew, part of the ship and part of the family that didn’t want to become bloodthirsty pirates. The way she developed through the story was just perfect. 

I have to admit, that this time I wasn’t fooled by Brandon, and quickly started to suspect the true identity of rat Huck (not like in the other recent book of his), and later since ch 24, where he talked about his past and family, I was 100% sure it was Charlie. And I did predict that the Sorceress will give Tress a “fake-Charlie” but Tress will see through it. I’m very proud of myself. I’m getting better at connecting dots.

Now worldbuilding. The idea of oceans of fluidized spores, falling from moons, violently reacting with water, is just mesmerizing. This world is just beautiful to imagine. For me the most exciting part of the book was the ways in which you can utilize spores to replicate Earth’s technology. Ship repair, replacing gunpowder, and inventing new types of ammunition. That was just so fun to read and think about it. So many new possibilities to explore. Aethers are so cool.

The art of the ship being pulled by vines growing from the ocean looks just like a kraken consuming a ship. And I love how the spores are growing around chapter numbers, that’s little detail but so satisfying. 

And the Cosmere stuff, being shamelessly thrown at our faces. 

Ulaam is a free Kandra! Corrupted, sentient Lifeless Kendra?? Looks like that to me - red eyes. That’s crazy. If that’s true it has so many implications. And I like how obsessed his character is with collecting body parts. 

Awakening technology! Awakened circuitry, robots, computers - that opens so many new possibilities. I simply adore it! More Awakening please!

Hoid spoiling us with so much new information. Especially Hoid and sixteen telling Adonalsium that killing him was for his own good. That was depressing.

DRAGON Xisis! He looks and acts so cool. Granting wishes! That was great. Did he use Awakened fabric around columns or he has the power to control them naturally? And he did say that he feared only one entity on this planet - the Sorceress? But Hoid also mentioned that Riina is threatened by Xisis.

Death with spikes in his eyes. Oh Marsh, what have you become?

The Sorceress being Elantrian - I got this spoiled, but it still was a cool thing. Was the planet’s map on the flood a simple decoration or was it something like Elantris on Sel, which allowed her to use Aons on this planet? But it wasn’t glowing. But there must be a trick to how both her and Hoid could draw powerful Aons so far away from Elantris! Maybe Dor got picked up and put back into SR? And the Aons on the art did look like old Aons, I expected them to look like Lumar, not Arleon. And her army was Awakened. Golden robots. Interesting. But no red eyes. hmmm.

Hoid becoming Elantrian was also spoiled to me, by my own fault, but that was still crazy. And the details of how it works were important.

But Elantrians powers became so much more powerful after this book. Transforming people into rats and blocking their memory? Changing their behavior, even Hoid’s? That’s just mad!

I wonder what was that creature that pretended to be fake-Charlie, who apparently was so powerful that was able to deal with Hoid for good. It had golden eyes. Intriguing. 

So now I was wondering to whom Hoid was telling this story. It quickly became obvious that it's somewhere in the modern period, and during the last chapters he did mention to listeners that Riina’s talking tower was like “talking” spaceships that landed on their planet - so it’s likely First of the Sun. That’s the only planet we know of which has talking spaceships landing on it, while people don’t understand how they talk.  

I did also wonder how close Lumar’s moon had to be to the planet to cover 1/3 of the sky constantly. That’s a lot. I do have to do proper math, but right now doing it - Earth’s Moon at Roche limit (18470 km) would be ~20 times closer to the Earth, so it would be 20 times bigger on the sky, now its apparent size is 0.5 degree, 20 times more it’s 10 degree, but it needs to be 60 degree (1/3 of 180 degrees)! So Earth’s Moon would have to be 6x closer than its Roche limit, so it would have to orbit around 3000 km from the surface of the Earth. Earth’s geostationary orbit is 42164 km. So yeah, Lumar’s moons are in impossible orbits. Who would have guessed?. But maybe Aethers are doing some weird magic stuff that sustain those orbits?

 

Headcanon - Hoid hates the name Doug because that is his real name, which he hates so much. 

 

I did miss the connection between Midnight Essence and Re-Shephir. How could I? The same name was used! Not so proud anymore. 

 

The only downside that I can think of is that Hoid was sometimes to full of himself, too cocky, and that he focused too much on himself instead on Tress on some pages. There were too many long moments of “at that time I was thinking about licking my toes” or something like that - I can't even describe it. But that was a minor problem thankfully.

 

That was a bit of a long and chaotic post. But that book was so good. So many thoughts to collect now. So many theories to think of. And so many posts to read - exciting! 

Edit: Now I will be listening to the Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack for whole next week. It has already been playing in my mind since I started reading this book! Curse you Hans Zimmer!

Edited March 24, 2023 by alder24

[Frustration he/him]

Alright, I finally got through Tress. And I have to say it has so far been the most overrated Cosmere book, aside from maybe the Emperor's Soul.

Everyone was talking about how it was the greatest Cosmere book so far, and an absolute favorite. Yet as I read it, it was really... mid.

I definitely liked it more than RoW or TLM, on pure enjoyment, but it definitely had less of an impact on me than they did, and compared to OB, or WoR it really wasn't that great.

 

Onto my thoughts: Hoid was actually funny for most of this, which is unfortunately noteworthy. After my Cosmere reread last year I was disappointed at how flat the humor was, so this was definitely an improvement, even if some of the humor here fell flat as well.

Brandon kept cutting away before explaining the good parts, I remember specifically that he seemed to explain that steel caused spores to grow away from them with a level of reluctance, more like a parent saying "Fine you can have some candy just stop asking" than anything.

We don't know anything about the other sprouter tools, or even what all the stores are. I know he said he wants to save them for later, but he could have at least named them, or what all the seas were. Which is especially criminal given that we probably aren't going back to Lumar ever again.

 

All in all I liked the book, but I felt it was different, rather than better when compared to the rest of the Cosmere.

[Wyndle88 he/him]

Hoid might have a better relationship with Whimsy than with all other Shards. I got this feeling after reading TotES. Though not name dropped 'whimsy' was suspiciously mentioned a little too much. 

[Xaladin he/him]

Did anyone else think (near the end) the Sorceress was going to be Shai/Moonlight gone rogue after failed Ghostblood attempts to bring her back? And that Hoid would “heal” her and she would be herself again and not so mean?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Xaladin
Grammar

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Xaladin said:

Did anyone else think (near the end) the Sorceress was going to be Shai/Moonlight gone rogue after failed Ghostblood attempts to bring her back? And that Hoid would “heal” her and she would be herself again and not so mean?

This can be problematic in terms of timeline, because Riina was one of the Ire members in the Secret History.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 2.1.2023 at 4:20 PM, Necessary Eagle said:

let me find the most relevant quotes, first of all.

So yes, that's the general impression I get.

These events need not coincide in time. When Harmony sent out Kandra into the wider Cosmere he necessarily made some of them imitate non-humans. In fact, as you can physically remove the spikes out of a Kandra, their value as imitators goes away to a large degree as soon as technology progresses to taking X-rays.

However, by that time he had obviously not released them.

[DJ_AJW]

hey guys this is my first post anywhere on this sight but after I was done reading the book something stuck out at me: Riina was able to use Lightweaving, something only accessible through spren or the Honorblades. Am I wrong? If I'm not how exactly was she able to Lightweave? Sorry if this has already been discussed but I didn't see it anywhere

[alder24]

11 minutes ago, DJ_AJW said:

hey guys this is my first post anywhere on this sight but after I was done reading the book something stuck out at me: Riina was able to use Lightweaving, something only accessible through spren or the Honorblades. Am I wrong? If I'm not how exactly was she able to Lightweave? Sorry if this has already been discussed but I didn't see it anywhere

Hey, welcome to the Shard.

That's not something accessible only to Radiants or Honorblades. Lightweaving is a general Cosmere term for the magic of illusions and creating them. That's what Hoid was doing through SA when telling stories before gaining his spren bond - he was using a Yolen version of Lightweaving. Sel and Elantians have their own version of Lightweaving - you've seen it already, Raoden used it to create an illusion on himself - that's Lightweaving, just used by different magic systems.

Keep in mind, in Cosmere they call every illusion magic as Lightweaving. The same way they can call any teleportation as Elsecalling, even if it has nothing to do with the order of Elsecallers. Every connection manipulation can be called Bondsmithing, even though it isn't done but order of Bondsmiths on Roshar. That's just the way they call it. Different magic systems can replicate other magics, Elantrians are the most versatile in that regard.

WoBs:

Spoiler

Argent

In the Syl interlude in Rhythm of War, she is speaking with Dalinar about his powers and the things those powers have done in the past. And what she says is "a Bondsmith bound other Surges". First of all, what other Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

One potential interpretation for you on this, remember they use Surge and spren sometimes interchangeably in-world. Just making you aware of that.

Argent

Yeah I'm aware of that. Bound other Surges....

Argent

Then the term Bondsmith. To me it seems like she's talking about Ishar and the Ashyn stuff. So would they use Bondsmith to describe him in that place?

Brandon Sanderson

That might be what she's talking about. I'm not guaranteeing it.

Argent

And that would be maybe the power of Connection, the way Lightweaving is the power of illusion?

Brandon Sanderson

So one other thing to keep aware of in the cosmere - for instance they call "Lightweaving" any illusion-based magic working on the same fundamentals. And so you could argue - and people will use it that way in-world - that Bondsmithing is both an order [of Knights Radiant] and a power that exists outside the order.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And for instance, there were not Elsecallers to get people between Ashyn and Roshar, but on Roshar they would explain what happened there as Elsecalling. Does that make sense?

Argent

I mean, as much as these things make sense, yes.

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Could you use AonDor to manipulate Connection? If so, would a real AonDor smarty be able to do something similar to a Bondsmith?

Brandon Sanderson

The short answer to your question is: yes. Let me give some explanation.

Even when you are seeings some things happening in Elantris itself, you are seeing them manipulate Connection. It is mostly reinforcing Connection, but it is, in a way, manipulation. Rewriting Connection, rewriting Identity are both things that they can do. So with enough power, with enough smartiness, what a Bondsmith can do can be done.

In fact, we have seen short-range Elsecalling done by… Obviously Elsecalling’s not Bondsmithing, but you know that a Bondsmith powered a big Elsecalling [to migrate from Ashyn], one of the big things you’ve seen a Bondsmith do is get people between planets. And you have seen people use AonDor to Elsecall. You’ve seen them Lightweave, you’ve seen them do a lot of these things. They also could do some of this same stuff.

Basically, rule of thumb is: almost anything in the cosmere that is possible can be replicated with AonDor with the right program. But you may need an injection of Investiture in certain ways.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

So Hoid, was he considered a Lightweaver pre-Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that would be an appropriate term. There are lots of different terms that would also be appropriate.

Questioner

But was it basically the same thing?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, no Stormlight. No spren. So, not a Knight Radiant. But, similar magic. But you've also seen Elantris magic do this. So there are-- there are certain things that-- I'll just stop there.

Orem signing (Dec. 21, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Snipexe

Does Hoid's Lightweaving produce light?

Brandon Sanderson

*After a very long pause* He has used different types of Lightweaving, or he has access to different types of Lightweaving.

Snipexe

Does the Yolish Lightweaving produce light?

Brandon Sanderson

Yolish Lightweaving could produce light.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

 

Spoiler

Wyndlerunner

Hoid, he already has his Cryptic by Era 2, if I'm correct on the timeline. So have we seen him using his new fancy Lightweaving in action? Has he spoken his fifth Truth?

Brandon Sanderson

I will RAFO that for now. I'll RAFO both of those. Those are two separate things, but I will RAFO them. You have seen Hoid Lightweaving, but whether you have seen him use his fancy new Lightweaving... we'll leave that off for now. Let's just say that he knows that certain uses of Investiture are easier to detect than others, and if you don't want to be seen, there are certain things you don't do.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

 

[DJ_AJW]

ohhhhhhh 

That explains a lot of what I read in there, thanks so much!

[olivemyheart]

Quote

"Don't wake me up unless Death himself has shown up, nails in his eyes."

You will not believe the double take I did. So apparently (a part of) Scadrian religion has migrated to Lumar?? I guess it's not that surprising considering there's the confirmed presence of at least three Worldhoppers on the planet, but still, I really want to know how that happened

Quote

"Oh yes. I've said those words. I said them with sixteen other people, in fact."

So Hoid and the soon-to-be-Vessels told Adonalsium that shattering it that it was for its own good. Other people have probably already pointed this out, but this implies that pre-Shattering, Adonalsium was a sentient being rather than a mindless power or natural force, right?

[olivemyheart]

Also, I see people in this thread were debating the Hoid narrative style, so I want to add my two cents, which is that the writing style isn't bad on its own, just way overdone. The book had a lot of clever bits of wordplay and some genuinely hilarious quotes (the language nerd in me appreciated the grammar jokes, although I know its not up most people's alley), but a lot of time things just felt...forced. This is actually a problem that I see across multiple authors in fantasy right now: they try to give every part of the story a deeper meaning, but it ends up making the entire story feel monotone, because the narrator is philosophizing on literally everything

A good example is, I think, the Dougs. I thought the fact that Hoid consistently refers to the background characters as Dougs was hilarious. It's meta self-aware in a way that isn't too intrusive, in-character for Hoid, and just a funny concept in general. But when it's introduced in Chapter 14, he doesn't need four paragraphs explaining the linguistic reasoning behind the joke. He could have cut that section down to around three sentences, and it honestly would have been funnier. Let the joke be what it is

Another moment that stood out to me is in Chapter 64 when Brandon writes: 

Quote

"'Not that bad!' the Sorceress said, stalking forward, ignoring the clanking sound from behind--like something metal going down the steps."

The reader understands perfectly well from the preceding context that Charlie ran inside the pewter tankard and is now hurtling down the staircase--and the mental image is hilarious. But then, he writes:

Quote

"Imagine it: Charlie the rat, spinning in the air within a pewter cup, bouncing down the stairs. Observed by a bemused cat from above, who had given the swat that sent the cup tumbling."

But why? We, the readers, are already imagining it. We know what's going on. Why does it need to be hammered in this way, rather than letting the story progress as it already is? It makes it feel like Sanderson doesn't trust his readers to understand his narrative unless he guides us by hand

Anyways, I enjoyed the book overall, but the narrative style made it difficult for me to read large chunks of it at a time, and I wanted to try to put my finger on why

[alder24]

2 hours ago, olivemyheart said:

You will not believe the double take I did. So apparently (a part of) Scadrian religion has migrated to Lumar?? I guess it's not that surprising considering there's the confirmed presence of at least three Worldhoppers on the planet, but still, I really want to know how that happened

Yes, it was already said in TLM Ars Arcanum that Marsh "nature" is spreading across Cosmere. 

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I have, after lengthy questing, obtained an interview with Marsh, the one known as Ironeyes on Scadrial. (As a side note, it is curious how news of his nature is spreading to other worlds. Is this natural rumormongering, or something more supernatural?)

 

1 hour ago, olivemyheart said:

Another moment that stood out to me is in Chapter 64 when Brandon writes: 

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"'Not that bad!' the Sorceress said, stalking forward, ignoring the clanking sound from behind--like something metal going down the steps."

The reader understands perfectly well from the preceding context that Charlie ran inside the pewter tankard and is now hurtling down the staircase--and the mental image is hilarious. But then, he writes:

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"Imagine it: Charlie the rat, spinning in the air within a pewter cup, bouncing down the stairs. Observed by a bemused cat from above, who had given the swat that sent the cup tumbling."

But why? We, the readers, are already imagining it. We know what's going on. Why does it need to be hammered in this way, rather than letting the story progress as it already is? It makes it feel like Sanderson doesn't trust his readers to understand his narrative unless he guides us by hand

Good thing that he wrote that, otherwise I would have missed it.   And taking that time to imagine the cat's reaction was funny.

[Glashard he/him]

 

On 1/1/2023 at 5:30 PM, WhatFace said:

At the beginning of Chapter 48, Hoid narrates, “But if ever there were proof that Fate herself had placed long odds against the Crow’s Song, it would be the fact that there were not one, but two separate rainlines heading straight for the ship.”

Was he just being poetic, or did he just name-drop a Shard? I think it’s probably just the former, but I wanted to know what other people thought.

I don't think Fate is a shard, but maybe it's just another way of talking about the spiritual aspect of Fortune