Adolin sucks? [Discuss]

[Monk of Dakhor]

do you think Adolin sucks? What are some reasons?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Monk said:

Adolin kinda sucks, back me up

I liked the thesis but perhaps the body of the paper could use some work?? 

I love Adolins character.  He is the high-school jock fighting against the fact that college play is faster and meaner than he thought.  I never thought he was a jerk or anything.  He totally is at the top of his game but the power creep on Roshar is totally busted and the new released Champs just outclassed him having access to every ability providing CC and damage and personal buffs all at once.   He was the classic bruiser tank with too much damage but all of those character archetypes got left in the dust 2 patches ago. 

For what Adolin is he is the best character at doing it.  Sadly the devs and newer age player base demands more shiny more depressing edgelord characters and the good ole boys from yesteryear are being left in the dust.  

[Frustration]

He's overrated at the very least.

[offer]

39 minutes ago, Ookla the Monk said:

Adolin kinda sucks, back me up

My main problem with the whole SA is Adolin not beeing punished for killing Sadeas. In TWOK there was a major point of Alethi not killing rivals in the open (this is why Sadeas tried to kill Dalinar in a way that is deniable) so when he killed Sadeas I expected him to utleast get disinherited but then he admited it and nothing happend

Since then I don`t like him. He is nice usually in other parts but every time he appears I cant forget how he wasnt punished for what he did.

[Monk of Dakhor]

38 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I liked the thesis but perhaps the body of the paper could use some work?? 

I love Adolins character.  He is the high-school jock fighting against the fact that college play is faster and meaner than he thought.  I never thought he was a jerk or anything.  He totally is at the top of his game but the power creep on Roshar is totally busted and the new released Champs just outclassed him having access to every ability providing CC and damage and personal buffs all at once.   He was the classic bruiser tank with too much damage but all of those character archetypes got left in the dust 2 patches ago. 

For what Adolin is he is the best character at doing it.  Sadly the devs and newer age player base demands more shiny more depressing edgelord characters and the good ole boys from yesteryear are being left in the dust.  

He has anger issues, and is a player, points one and two that he sucks, more to follow

also

4 minutes ago, offer said:

My main problem with the whole SA is Adolin not beeing punished for killing Sadeas. In TWOK there was a major point of Alethi not killing rivals in the open (this is why Sadeas tried to kill Dalinar in a way that is deniable) so when he killed Sadeas I expected him to utleast get disinherited but then he admited it and nothing happend

Since then I don`t like him. He is nice usually in other parts but every time he appears I cant forget how he wasnt punished for what he did.

Offer is spitting facts

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Ookla the Monk

[Returned]

Yikes, is your non-Ookla name "Kaladin from WoK and the first half of WoR"?

I like Adolin. He's entitled and spoiled, along with some ignorance about the world that comes along with those, but seems pretty decent to other people and is aware of his station and the incredible good fortune that has placed him in it. As a ridiculously wealthy Alethi nobleman who is adjacent to the throne and is also a full Shardbearer, a master swordsman, an excellent soldier, and is well-regarded by his soldiers, he's too big for the rules the Alethi pretend to care about. The non-fallout of the murder of Torol Sadeas is a good example of that. But even so, he tries to follow those nominal rules and spends a lot of time and effort trying to be a good person, often with good results. He also goes out of his way to prevent abuses of others and protest injustice. He cares enough to rehabilitate a deadeye, which people thought was impossible, and was willing to spend the rest of his life in an honorspren prison to spare Maya the distress of being harassed on the witness stand.

He's not perfect by any means, and if you don't like him that's obviously a valid position. I might even agree that he's overrated (by whom, exactly?). But if he flatly sucks, then I think you'll have a hard time saying that anyone on Roshar, or even the broader Cosmere, doesn't. A complaint like "he wasn't punished for killing Sadeas" isn't really a thing about Adolin himself (he wouldn't suck if he'd been disinherited, but he wasn't, so he does?). And while he was a player for sure the details on that are a bit thin, and it's not like he hasn't been 100% faithful to Shallan since she came onto the scene.

[Elegy]

Maybe if you actually want a good discussion, try explaining yourself instead of waiting for other people to do the work for you. That's lazy.

[Frustration]

Adolin was fine, until Oathbringer. Early on he had a balance, not overbearing on the plot while also having a presence. However we hit OB and Brandon made him one of the main cast. We get more of him than we do Szeth and Venli who are actual flashback characters, and then he became overbearing and began to take focus away from where it was needed. This was the same thing that happened to Navani in RoW, a character who didn't need it got too much focus and that made both them, and the book weaker.

I wouldn't say he sucks, but he definitely gets attention that would have been better focused elsewhere.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Ookla the Frustrated.

[Werewolff Studios]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Monk said:

Adolin kinda sucks, back me up

As others have said, I feel this statement lacks depth. If he's not to your taste, that's understanable, but asking for the Forums to 'back you up' would likely require more of an argument or reasoning, I think.

I've always liked Adolin. He's certainly entitled and gets away with more than he should due to his position, but overall he's a good person. I always enjoy reading his chapters as they offer a nice contrast to many other main characters dealing with heavier amounts of trauma. His scenes in ROW were some of my favourites. Plus, him being a 'player' hasn't been a factor in his character since he began courting Shallan. I feel he's grown past that.

Also, I don't personally see him as having anger issues, at least nothing more noteworthy than other characters. He's unafraid to voice his opinions, and he can certainly be impulsive, but most of the times we've seen him properly angry are justifiable. Like his interactions with Sadeas, his older friends in the Shardblade duel and the Honorspren in Lasting Integrity during their trial. 

He's not perfect, but no character is. Again, if he doesn't vibe with you, totally fine. But I don't feel that's enough to say that he flat out sucks as a character. 

[Returned]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Adolin was fine, until Oathbringer. Early on he had a balance, not overbearing on the plot while also having a presence. However we hit OB and Brandon made him one of the main cast. We get more of him than we do Szeth and Venli who are actual flashback characters, and then he became overbearing and began to take focus away from where it was needed. This was the same thing that happened to Navani in RoW, a character who didn't need it got too much focus and that made both them, and the book weaker.

I hadn't really been thinking of Adolin sucking as a narrative character, as opposed to as a person, but this is a position I can get behind a bit more. Since I like Adolin I don't mind his POV sections, but there is definitely an opportunity cost to focusing on him instead of other characters when each book is only so long. If forced to choose, I'd rather read about Szeth than Adolin. Adolin may develop into a character who deserves more of the spotlight, and events might be better illuminated with his POV, but we're not there yet.

[Monk of Dakhor]

17 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

As others have said, I feel this statement lacks depth. If he's not to your taste, that's understanable, but asking for the Forums to 'back you up' would likely require more of an argument or reasoning, I think.

I've always liked Adolin. He's certainly entitled and gets away with more than he should due to his position, but overall he's a good person. I always enjoy reading his chapters as they offer a nice contrast to many other main characters dealing with heavier amounts of trauma. His scenes in ROW were some of my favourites. Plus, him being a 'player' hasn't been a factor in his character since he began courting Shallan. I feel he's grown past that.

Also, I don't personally see him as having anger issues, at least nothing more noteworthy than other characters. He's unafraid to voice his opinions, and he can certainly be impulsive, but most of the times we've seen him properly angry are justifiable. Like his interactions with Sadeas, his older friends in the Shardblade duel and the Honorspren in Lasting Integrity during their trial. 

He's not perfect, but no character is. Again, if he doesn't vibe with you, totally fine. But I don't feel that's enough to say that he flat out sucks as a character. 

All that you said, is very valid, and I honestly don't remember why I posted, this, can I delete these btw?

[Immortal Platypus]

can you give this either a [support] or [discuss] tag so we know if we're supposed to try to change your mind or if people are just supposed to rant here? also, threads like these usually end up shut down as you can see from the "Shallan sucks" thread.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Ookla the platypus

[Monk of Dakhor]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:49 AM, Ookla the platypus said:

can you give this either a [support] or [discuss] tag so we know if we're supposed to try to change your mind or if people are just supposed to rant here? also, threads like these usually end up shut down as you can see from the "Shallan sucks" thread.

I just changed the question into what I meant for the discussion to originally be targeted for

On 12/7/2022 at 9:49 AM, Ookla the platypus said:

can you give this either a [support] or [discuss] tag so we know if we're supposed to try to change your mind or if people are just supposed to rant here? also, threads like these usually end up shut down as you can see from the "Shallan sucks" thread.

And I gave it a discuss tag, at least I think so.

(Sorry for all the confussion, I don't know how a lot of this works, I am relatively new)

[Returned]

36 minutes ago, Ookla the Monk said:

(Sorry for all the confussion, I don't know how a lot of this works, I am relatively new)

No worries, we were all new here once. Welcome!

I'd be interested in hearing your views about Adolin, and why you think of him the way you do.

[Monk of Dakhor]

well, I don't really hate him, I forgot to phrase the question how I meant (I have now changed it), but I have heard a lot of people have negative views on him and I am wondering how many people here have that and there reasons

[Returned]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Monk said:

well, I don't really hate him, I forgot to phrase the question how I meant (I have now changed it), but I have heard a lot of people have negative views on him and I am wondering how many people here have that and there reasons

Interesting! I haven't come across too much anti-Adolin sentiment, though that probably has to do more with my timing of joining the forums and the people I happen to speak with in person about the books.

At the beginning I liked Adolin because he gave a good angle on the story we weren't getting elsewhere, the "normal" Alethi view (Dalinar had his own stuff going on, Shallan is Veden and had her own stuff going on, and Kaladin and co. were enslaved). I also thought he was a nice foil for Kaladin-- talented, dedicated, and a decent person, but with all the advantages Alethi society can offer while Kaladin experienced all of the class-based injustices that society could mete out.

I think that his stories have thinned out a bit since Oathbringer, mainly because we've already seen so much of what he's dedicated his life to (it would be hard to have a continued emphasis on dueling and battlefield domination indefinitely), and because events have diminished what made him unusual in war (Surgebinders flying and gliding everywhere, healing mortal wounds, and so on). His new plotlines have brought in additional details that round him out as a character more, but they're nevertheless not exactly about him as a character, nor his development. I think that we will get some stronger developments in those areas down the line but we're not there yet.

[alder24]

On 6.12.2022 at 9:08 PM, Ookla the Monk said:

do you think Adolin sucks?

No.

Adolin was my favorite PoV in RoW. He turned our eyes away from people with god like powers, and grand war theater to more grounded, non-powered person, with regular problems, like diplomatic mission, saving his marriage, dealing with his father's past etc. Adolin is the last non-powered character who still is PoV(exept Navani who become Bondsmith) and I think that's important, as we can easily forget how Desolation is viewed by regular people. We already lost unique Interludes that used to show us new parts of Roshar with new characters. Adolin gives us this opportunity as he also is good, social and empathetic person, thinking and taking care of people weaker and lower than he is. Which was greatly shown during Battle of Thaylen.

He has flaws, he is spoiled and entitled, but he's not behaving like that. He chooses to be nice to everyone, to make them laugh, have fun together, and help those who need this. He is a good person who knows what are his responsibilities, what is his position, and what can he do with what he got for betterment of others. He accepts his lower position in new world with Radiants and Surges and still tries to make a difference.

And he does not have anger issue. How would you face someone who betray you and left you to die on a battlefield? Someone who betray your best friend Brigdeboy? Someone who hurt your friend and used her as a tool? How would you face your father who killed your mother? Adolin has every right to be angry and he still hold back quite well. But I agree, I was hoping for some repercussion for killing Sadeas.

Moreover his duels and fight scenes are just great. Fight with Tukari was perfect.

[The Subsumer]

EXCUSE ME good people of the Shard but I am outraged. Positively outraged. Disgusted, incredulous, *pulls out pocket thesaurus*, scandalized.

I love Adolin. Dude is my second favorite character in all of the Stormlight Archive. I think it's great that he's this dude who is just in the thick of things without any real powers except being charming and an absolute geek when it comes to weaponry.

There's this delicious disconnect between who Adolin is, who he thinks he is, and who he wants to be. This has been a recurrent theme from the beginning. Adolin is this great guy who wants to be better, to be a leader, and a good older brother. And he tries. He's just so earnest. He as no idea how to help Renarin so he just kind of chills there like "I'm here for you, I'll beat up anyone who calls you names". He has no idea how to help Shallan so he just chills there like "I'm here for you... and you... and you." He has no idea how to help Kaladin so he just chills there like "I'm here for you, even if you're not at the moment".

He's also not a player, just absurdly bad at talking to girls. He's handsome and rich and has no idea what he's doing, which is just hilarious. And he's so innocent and good.

Personally, I hope Adolin never becomes a Knight Radiant. Give him something, some special Adolin-Maya thingy, but I just love how he's still there even though he's outclassed. And it's always easier to relate to someone who, y'know, doesn't have godlike powers.

Edit: Also Sadeas was a total waste of a human being and people kind of have bigger problems at the moment then Adolin causally saving the Kholin household.

Edited January 11, 2023 by The Subsumer

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 hours ago, The Subsumer said:

EXCUSE ME good people of the Shard but I am outraged. Positively outraged. Disgusted, incredulous, *pulls out pocket thesaurus*, scandalized.

I love Adolin. Dude is my second favorite character in all of the Stormlight Archive. I think it's great that he's this dude who is just in the thick of things without any real powers except being charming and an absolute geek when it comes to weaponry.

There's this delicious disconnect between who Adolin is, who he thinks he is, and who he wants to be. This has been a recurrent theme from the beginning. Adolin is this great guy who wants to be better, to be a leader, and a good older brother. And he tries. He's just so earnest. He as no idea how to help Renarin so he just kind of chills there like "I'm here for you, I'll beat up anyone who calls you names". He has no idea how to help Shallan so he just chills there like "I'm here for you... and you... and you." He has no idea how to help Kaladin so he just chills there like "I'm here for you, even if you're not at the moment".

He's also not a player, just absurdly bad at talking to girls. He's handsome and rich and has no idea what he's doing, which is just hilarious. And he's so innocent and good.

Personally, I hope Adolin never becomes a Knight Radiant. Give him something, some special Adolin-Maya thingy, but I just love how he's still there even though he's outclassed. And it's always easier to relate to someone who, y'know, doesn't have godlike powers.

Edit: Also Sadeas was a total waste of a human being and people kind of have bigger problems at the moment then Adolin causally saving the Kholin household.

Yes.  I love how Adolin was on the top of the world and the power creep just took off on him.  He is still decked out in his hard earned T3 set from vanilla while everyone else is upgrading and raiding in wrath now (sorry for the WoW reference).  

[rabidhexley]

9 hours ago, The Subsumer said:

 

Edit: Also Sadeas was a total waste of a human being and people kind of have bigger problems at the moment then Adolin causally saving the Kholin household.

This is one of those complaints I hear from others that I don't personally have a problem with either. The idea that there should have been more personal consequences to Adolin killing Sadeas. I think Adolin being punished by the narrative would have gone against the point of that moment. Was murdering him in a hallway the "right" thing to do? /shrug. But Sadeas being resolved by someone finally deciding to just stop continuously eating his crap is fitting in my opinion.

Edited January 11, 2023 by rabidhexley

[Primeival Chaos]

Man I love Adolin. 

It's refreshing to have a character that doesn't have a horrible, messed up backstory. He's just a good kid. He had access to things that the others didn't and he's still a spoiled rich kid. But he is nice to everyone, and he isn't some overpowered anime character like the other viewpoint characters. Personally, I think that his character arc is one of my favorites, and I can't wait to see what happens next with him. He's something new.

[Immortal Platypus]

I think that a lot of complaints about him are completely unfair. Anger issues? Name any time and I'll tell you why I would classify that as righteous indignation and not anger issues (probably. My memory is a bit spotty sometimes). Not being punished for killing Sadeas? He beats himself up so much about it I don't know if any society punishment could punish him more. He goes and sits in a jail cell until Kaladin is let out because he thinks it is unjust. I think that people are welcome to think their own way, but Adolin is one of my favorite viewpoints.

[Treamayne]

I think Adolin provides a perspective we can't see anywhere else. I like his character and I enjoy his chapters.

On 12/6/2022 at 6:33 PM, Returned said:

I hadn't really been thinking of Adolin sucking as a narrative character, as opposed to as a person, but this is a position I can get behind a bit more. Since I like Adolin I don't mind his POV sections, but there is definitely an opportunity cost to focusing on him instead of other characters when each book is only so long. If forced to choose, I'd rather read about Szeth than Adolin. Adolin may develop into a character who deserves more of the spotlight, and events might be better illuminated with his POV, but we're not there yet.

I would not mind at all if every chapter with both Shallan and Adolin were an Adolin chapter instead of a Shallan chapter. That said, I don't think Adolin's chapters are detracting from the stories of Szeth or anybody else. Less Adolin =/= more <character>. We don't get more from those characters (Lift, Szeth, etc) because BS isn't ready to expound on what is happening there. I also think that his interactions with Maya (and Deadeyes) will be important, and he has the only viewpoint that can explore that relationship.

I can understand that wanting Szeth (Lift, Dustbringer, Truthwatcher, Renarin, whoever) and getting Adolin can feel like a let-down. But if BS were ready to explore those characters we would already be getting more of them. It's not Adolin's fault (or his fan popularity) that he has the screen time he does. Do you really think Sanderson would warp a story that much for . . . fanservice?

On 12/6/2022 at 3:51 PM, offer said:

My main problem with the whole SA is Adolin not beeing punished for killing Sadeas. In TWOK there was a major point of Alethi not killing rivals in the open (this is why Sadeas tried to kill Dalinar in a way that is deniable) so when he killed Sadeas I expected him to utleast get disinherited but then he admited it and nothing happend

Since then I don`t like him. He is nice usually in other parts but every time he appears I cant forget how he wasnt punished for what he did.

Sadeas' stunt at the Tower was nothing more than Plausible Deniability. Jasnah's Prologue shows that the Alethi have nothing against assassination and murder - as long as you don't get caught. Killing Sadeas the way he did wasn't Adolin's anti-Alethi move, admitting it was. . . And Sadeas really needed to die (both narratively and in-story).

[Toaster Retribution]

I don't necessarily think Adolin should be punished for offing Sadeas. Not to condone murder, but given everything that had happened, and what Sadeas was saying, it was basically self-defense. I do however sometimes think that the plot would have been stronger if he faced some actual consequences for it, mostly because how it worked as something of a cliff-hanger ending in Book 2, and people spent three years debating what the fallout would be. The fact that everyone (except Ialai) basically shrugged and focused on other things was a bit of an anticlimax. But that has more to do with the storyline in general, and not so much Adolins character. I personally really like him. He is a good guy, and the journey from basically being one of the most important and powerful men in the world to having everyone and their mother powercreeping past him is pretty interesting. 

[Returned]

5 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I would not mind at all if every chapter with both Shallan and Adolin were an Adolin chapter instead of a Shallan chapter. That said, I don't think Adolin's chapters are detracting from the stories of Szeth or anybody else. Less Adolin =/= more <character>. We don't get more from those characters (Lift, Szeth, etc) because BS isn't ready to expound on what is happening there. I also think that his interactions with Maya (and Deadeyes) will be important, and he has the only viewpoint that can explore that relationship.

Agreed on Maya, and that we don't get more of other characters by having less of Adolin. The Maya piece is still in a "slow build, high tease" situation. I expect it to pay off, handsomely, much like some of the early Kaladin and Shallan sequences. But as Adolin isn't a main character (in the way that those two have been, with books dedicated to them), that's taking longer (more pages which aren't advancing this yet) to play out. Which is fine with me, but I can appreciate that they feel like filler to some people. I imagine it as feeling similar to if WoK ended without Kaladin swearing the second Oath or getting free of Sadeas: the buildup would still be there, and would be just as good and valuable, but the narrative would feel incomplete within that book. I increasingly have the impression that in Adolin we're getting a Kaladin- or Shallan-level plot from WoK or WoR (minus the flashbacks) but spread out over more volumes.

I'm not sure I agree that the issue is getting more of other characters and less of Adolin vs. the opposite, but rather about narrative focus. Stormlight is huge, with tons of characters and events, and a constant risk with so much material is loss of focus and awkward pacing. When we have so much of Adolin, and it's nearly all setup and little payoff (so far) for so long, I feel that we're in danger of losing focus on the other characters and their immediately relevant stories. For people that want to see Szeth's story advance, RoW might have been very disappointing (though not due to anything about Adolin). But I can see how opening new story lines for Adolin might be frustrating, particularly for people that don't like him-- not only are they not getting Szeth (which they would never have gotten in RoW anyways), but they're also getting a lot more pages that aren't Szeth and dedicated instead to a character whom they also don't like.

The books are getting longer with each release; if Sanderson isn't ready to advance already open stories (which is a legitimate choice, and I wouldn't challenge his vision!), that means that we're getting other stuff instead (and more of it) which isn't the same stuff that drew fans to the series in the first place. Again, I like Adolin and so don't mind this with him, but I can appreciate that some might be frustrated with what feels like a bridge novel to them in terms of what they care about: just another book to buy and read which is just passing time until the next one, which they might find more interesting.

5 hours ago, Treamayne said:

But if BS were ready to explore those characters we would already be getting more of them. It's not Adolin's fault (or his fan popularity) that he has the screen time he does. Do you really think Sanderson would warp a story that much for . . . fanservice?

Prior to Oathbringer, no. Today, yes (sadly). Though I'll note that I don't think that Adolin's story is just fanservice. While we obviously can't get Szeth's story heading to Shinovar before the overarching plot is ready for it (with connections to events known and unknown to us), we could still get character development or even subplots about or involving him. He could be a player in events of RoW, even if not the central or decisive one. Instead he spends a non-trivial amount of in-world time doing next to nothing, an extra instead of a star or even supporting character.

It's possible that the structure and plan for Stormlight is the best possible one, and that there just wasn't another way to do it other than how Sanderson did. But I'm not convinced that that necessarily is the case. Either way, after RoW and Lost Metal I'm less trusting and tolerant than I was before. I'm concerned that we're seeing longer and weaker books than might have been in service of books that don't yet exist, a tradeoff that might not need to happen. I don't lay that at the feet of any one character (and certainly not Adolin), but yes, I do think that we've reached a point where individual books are bloating a bit with fanservice (and other things) to fill out generally slower and more diffuse plot advancement.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Returned