What comes next? Speculation for next book and back 5.

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 minute ago, IndigoAjah said:

I personally am pretty sure that isn't what Avatar means in this context, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm nearly 100% sure that Avatar simply refers to his "body" given everything we know from SH and BoM.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of those things does happen by the end of the book, but it has to happen quite a lot earlier in the book to realistically get them to interact. 

Shallan no longer being a main PoV character does not mean they will complete the arc, depending on how long our inter-arc gap is going to be. Placing a PoV character next to a character that knows too much to be a PoV but progresses the plot is a common literary tool.

Ten year gap, I believe. In world. Out of world I’m not certain.

Actually, I think Kell’s new body is similar to the Heralds’. Think about what Ishar does; he Connects Spren to the physical realm and then transitions them to the physical where they manifest bodies (albeit non-functional ones). I think Kell’s spike contains a Connection to the Physical realm. With that he just transitions to the physical realm and manifests a body. Not an avatar at all.

I think his avatar is actually a Kandra using his bones. Between Kell’s powerful alomancy and his Connection to his bones, it allows him to control the (willing) Kandra at significant distances, although it’s not so easy as to be a regular thing.

[IndigoAjah]

3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Ten year gap, I believe. In world. Out of world I’m not certain.

Actually, I think Kell’s new body is similar to the Heralds’. Think about what Ishar does; he Connects Spren to the physical realm and then transitions them to the physical where they manifest bodies (albeit non-functional ones). I think Kell’s spike contains a Connection to the Physical realm. With that he just transitions to the physical realm and manifests a body. Not an avatar at all.

I think his avatar is actually a Kandra using his bones. Between Kell’s powerful alomancy and his Connection to his bones, it allows him to control the (willing) Kandra at significant distances, although it’s not so easy as to be a regular thing.

Personally I would call that my exact definition of an avatar though! The physical manifestation of a superphysical being! That's my exact understanding of that word. 

 

noun

1. 1.

   HINDUISM

   a manifestation of a deity or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher.

    

    

    
2. 2.

   an icon or figure representing a particular person in a video game, internet forum, etc.

   "conversation is depicted in a balloon over the avatar's head"

Edited November 29, 2020 by IndigoAjah

[Kingsdaughter613]

Just now, IndigoAjah said:

Personally I would call that my exact definition of an avatar though! The physical manifestation of a superphysical being! That's my exact understanding of that word. 

Definition of avatar

 

1: the incarnation of a Hindu deity (such as Vishnu)

2a: an incarnation in human form

b: an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person She was regarded as an avatar of charity and concern for the poor.

3: a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity the latest avatar of the conservative movement

4: an electronic image that represents and may be manipulated by a computer user (as in a game)

 

So by this explanation Heralds, Returned and Kell, and possibly Spren, can count as long as you consider them divinities. But I think definition four is actually closer to what’s intended, ie. a body operated remotely as opposed to a physical manifestation of a deity.

[IndigoAjah]

I guess we'll find out in 3 years or so!

[Honorless]

All of them are speculations we've seen before yet seeing them brought together like this is strangely goosebumps inducing, which says good things about this series.

That being said, you make a really good case for Ba-Ado-Mishram having a Dawnshard, except what if she is the Dawnshard? I don't mean it in the way that the readers of Dawnshard would think, but that Ba-Ado-Mishram is herself the Corrupted Dawnshard?

Spoiler

Seems a bit unlikely, especially if Unity is a Dawnshard Command and what Dalinar has been feeling.

 

That being said, that the Surge of Adhesion might be the Dawnshard is also a very intriguing idea! 

 

[Jondesu]

On 11/28/2020 at 7:26 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

MB era 3 will also be written between SA5&6, so the ramifications of that plot are going to be dealt with.

Mistborn Era 3 may be written during that time period, but it’s set later I believe, and wouldn’t necessarily involve the Ghostbloods plot at all. Mistborn Era 2 is the one set between SA 5&6.

[Kingsdaughter613]

45 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Mistborn Era 3 may be written during that time period, but it’s set later I believe, and wouldn’t necessarily involve the Ghostbloods plot at all. Mistborn Era 2 is the one set between SA 5&6.

Era 3 will involve Kelsier heavily, and seeing as he’s Thaidakar, there should be some connection.

[+Oltux72]

On 26.11.2020 at 10:45 PM, Autobrecciation said:

I mean, we know T-Odium wants to get off world, but do we know he wants to destroy all other shards so he can be the last god standing? I think that is what Hoid wants to prevent on Roshar, and I assume his personal (Former?) friendship with Rayse is also involved. So the question is whether Taravangian's goal is becoming the last god, which I'm leaning towards not... at this point in time.

Not really and I am sorry for not answering sooner. Hoid has started a coalition for essentially an interplanetary war. If he were to call that off now, he would risk never to be able to reform it. Hoid surely knows the Cosmere's version of the tale of the boy who called wolf. And there is always the stark eventuality the the Shard will overcome the vessel.

In addition Hoid has no idea that Rayse is dead. He will will still act as if he were alive.

On 29.11.2020 at 2:32 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Actually, I think Kell’s new body is similar to the Heralds’. Think about what Ishar does; he Connects Spren to the physical realm and then transitions them to the physical where they manifest bodies (albeit non-functional ones). I think Kell’s spike contains a Connection to the Physical realm. With that he just transitions to the physical realm and manifests a body. Not an avatar at all.

But a body is not the only mystery around Kelsier. The other, greater mystery (for the Fused show that you can just snatch a body) is that Kelsier is now a feruchemist, as the coin Waxillium got proved. Now, it is possible that both mysteries are unconnected. But that is hardly elegant. The obvious explanation for him becoming a feruchemist would be to snatch a feruchemist's body. But then why does he look like himself?
Well, there were descendants of feruchemists roaming Scadrial at the time of the Catacendre. The Mistwraiths are descandants of feruchemists. If you undo what Rashek did to them, you should get a feruchemist body.

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Era 3 will involve Kelsier heavily, and seeing as he’s Thaidakar, there should be some connection.

So do you think the Trellian incursion will be ended in The Lost Metal or will we see some temporary solution and era 3 is essentially the Ghostbloods fighting the Set? Or will Era 3 deal with the first consequences of Odium being set free?

[Kingsdaughter613]

7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Not really and I am sorry for not answering sooner. Hoid has started a coalition for essentially an interplanetary war. If he were to call that off now, he would risk never to be able to reform it. Hoid surely knows the Cosmere's version of the tale of the boy who called wolf. And there is always the stark eventuality the the Shard will overcome the vessel.

In addition Hoid has no idea that Rayse is dead. He will will still act as if he were alive.

But a body is not the only mystery around Kelsier. The other, greater mystery (for the Fused show that you can just snatch a body) is that Kelsier is now a feruchemist, as the coin Waxillium got proved. Now, it is possible that both mysteries are unconnected. But that is hardly elegant. The obvious explanation for him becoming a feruchemist would be to snatch a feruchemist's body. But then why does he look like himself?
Well, there were descendants of feruchemists roaming Scadrial at the time of the Catacendre. The Mistwraiths are descandants of feruchemists. If you undo what Rashek did to them, you should get a feruchemist body.

So do you think the Trellian incursion will be ended in The Lost Metal or will we see some temporary solution and era 3 is essentially the Ghostbloods fighting the Set? Or will Era 3 deal with the first consequences of Odium being set free?

Snatching a Feruchemist’s body would not make Kell a Feruchemist. Feruchemy - like Allomancy - is part of the Spiritual, not physical, make up of the individual.

The most likely reasons for Kell’s feruchemy are: Godmetal use or that it’s a hack and not inherent.

Trell will not be dealt with in Era 2. Era 2 is setting up Era 3. As for what Era 3 will entail... All I can say with certainty is that it won’t be as clear cut as X against Y.

[Waffles]

There's an entire plot line along the horneater peaks thats been completely out of focus of the books so far. Likely this is a war between Odium and Cultivation that will carry on into the latter books.

[bmcclure7]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:50 PM, Autobrecciation said:

This is true if T-Odium wants the same thing Rayse wanted. This is a big if, because if I'm understanding correct, the shard Odium doesn't want anything other than the intent its limited to - in this case, God's Wrath / Passion. Taravangian could be convinced by the shards intent to go through with it, if it aligns with his goals, and at this point the only thing we have seen of his goals was that he was going to "save them all". I keep falling into the trap that T-Odium will be evil, but he might just be vindictive, like Old Testament God, turning people who fight against him into pillars of salt, that sort of thing.

We also have no idea what Hoid's goal is - in the Rosharan system its to fight Odium because Odium is trying to become king of the hill, but what if T-Odium doesn't want that?

The only reason I'm not behind this now is Spoilers Release Event Reading from sequel to First of Dusk:

  Reveal hidden contents

We see that the ones above are in conflict with a Knight Radiant, probably a Skybreaker. Does this mean that at that time the Skybreakers still follow Odium? Does it mean there has been a unification?

I'm leaning towards complex ethics and morals guiding both sides in that conflict, but I think it needs to be set up by the back ten. We know that the Scadrians at that point have access to connection storing devices that allow anyone to essentially act as a Allomancer, perhaps even widespread. Does the same exist for the Knights Radiant? Who knows.

 

Harmony was clear the real enemy is the shard itself, not the vessel. T odium may have different reasons but in the end he will continue the greater war against the shards because that what his shard wants. 

[NameIess]

Here's my opinion: Every human is about to have the absolute worst ten days of their lives. So far the war has just been a series of mostly normal battles, albeit with the introduction of Surgebinders and thunderclast. We haven't seen the Midnight Mother since OB, and as far as we know she can create endless armies of eldritch abominations. Kaladin, one of the strongest fighters in the entire coalition, struggled to beat a Yelignar-powered Amaram with almost no knowledge of the surges and about 5 minutes of practice controlling his powers, while he was still going through the transformation. The Windrunners are heavily outnumbered, Jah Keved has just turned to the enemy, the KR have no real way to use Anti-light without Raysium, and one of the leaders among their Radiants just started a war with one of the most powerful secret society in the entire Cosmere. of the two Bondsmiths, one barely gained her powers, and the other is going to be preoccupied with the contest of champions. Kaladin and Szeth, the two best fighters of the Knights, have been deployed on a mission to a place about as far away from the battlefield as possible, on a mission to help an insane herald with the power to destroy planets, who may or may not be not just insane but also evil.

TLDR, I'm expecting a lot of Bridge four and KR interludes that include a lot of dying, and Kaladin's PTSD clinic is going to be very, very busy.

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Nameless said:

Here's my opinion: Every human is about to have the absolute worst ten days of their lives. So far the war has just been a series of mostly normal battles, albeit with the introduction of Surgebinders and thunderclast. We haven't seen the Midnight Mother since OB, and as far as we know she can create endless armies of eldritch abominations. Kaladin, one of the strongest fighters in the entire coalition, struggled to beat a Yelignar-powered Amaram with almost no knowledge of the surges and about 5 minutes of practice controlling his powers, while he was still going through the transformation. The Windrunners are heavily outnumbered, Jah Keved has just turned to the enemy, the KR have no real way to use Anti-light without Raysium, and one of the leaders among their Radiants just started a war with one of the most powerful secret society in the entire Cosmere. of the two Bondsmiths, one barely gained her powers, and the other is going to be preoccupied with the contest of champions. Kaladin and Szeth, the two best fighters of the Knights, have been deployed on a mission to a place about as far away from the battlefield as possible, on a mission to help an insane herald with the power to destroy planets, who may or may not be not just insane but also evil.

TLDR, I'm expecting a lot of Bridge four and KR interludes that include a lot of dying, and Kaladin's PTSD clinic is going to be very, very busy.

That would actually be a nice change of pace.

[+Child of Hodor]

On 7/28/2021 at 6:22 PM, Nameless said:

Here's my opinion: Every human is about to have the absolute worst ten days of their lives. So far the war has just been a series of mostly normal battles, albeit with the introduction of Surgebinders and thunderclast. We haven't seen the Midnight Mother since OB, and as far as we know she can create endless armies of eldritch abominations. Kaladin, one of the strongest fighters in the entire coalition, struggled to beat a Yelignar-powered Amaram with almost no knowledge of the surges and about 5 minutes of practice controlling his powers, while he was still going through the transformation. The Windrunners are heavily outnumbered, Jah Keved has just turned to the enemy, the KR have no real way to use Anti-light without Raysium, and one of the leaders among their Radiants just started a war with one of the most powerful secret society in the entire Cosmere. of the two Bondsmiths, one barely gained her powers, and the other is going to be preoccupied with the contest of champions. Kaladin and Szeth, the two best fighters of the Knights, have been deployed on a mission to a place about as far away from the battlefield as possible, on a mission to help an insane herald with the power to destroy planets, who may or may not be not just insane but also evil.

TLDR, I'm expecting a lot of Bridge four and KR interludes that include a lot of dying, and Kaladin's PTSD clinic is going to be very, very busy.

Yeah, crazy mad dash by all armies to claim as much territory as possible in the 10 days because they get to keep whatever they hold as of the contest of champions no matter who wins the contest.

I do think the child champion gambit will happen because it gets back to Dalinar telling Mr. T that knowingly taking even one innocent life is too many for him in Oathbinger. 

For the back 5 I am expecting a new vessel for Odium.  I wonder if Odium will merge with another Shard like Cultivation or Honor or both (split into pieces and merged) That would shake things up quite a bit for the back 5. Odium would be incorporated into the magic systems on Roshar more directly and make Voidbinding an actual thing that matters. 

Or like Ishar could Ascend making the Heralds more important in the back half. 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Child of Hodor

[ScadrianTank]

On 29.07.2021 at 2:21 PM, Child of Hodor said:

Yeah, crazy mad dash by all armies to claim as much territory as possible in the 10 days because they get to keep whatever they hold as of the contest of champions no matter who wins the contest.

Makes me wonder about Taravodium going forward. The Singers would like to have their land back, but I don't think Mr.T would empathize with the people he considered the enemy just yesterday. He won't feel obligated to the Singers at large or even the Fused, but he would still consider himself the savior of humanity. While any result Dalinar thought of while setting up the terms of the contest would be beneficial to Roshar as a whole, Taravangian's selfishness might result in his brilliant plan to go free to cause another catastrophe on Roshar. 

[Unite Them]

The herald madness reminds me a bit of the male magic madness in The Wheel of Time. 

[NameIess]

Here's another thing I'm predicting for book 5: The Lopen's death. He's going to die in an interlude, either failing to say his fourth ideal or finally getting that perfectly timed ideal just in time to go out in a blaze of glory.

[Unite Them]

4 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Here's another thing I'm predicting for book 5: The Lopen's death. He's going to die in an interlude, either failing to say his fourth ideal or finally getting that perfectly timed ideal just in time to go out in a blaze of glory.

It'd be even more tragic if Lopen is just casually executed.  I could see a good chunk of the wind runners dying in some helpless way after the contest.

[BurntRose]

A random thought for something to happen near the end of book 5 in the back half - Kaladin doesnt become honour, but instead becomes a representative of Harmony. 

Literally based only on this from RoW. 

Spoiler

Ch 29 - A cage without bars 'I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by searching for the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A...sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill.' 

His mission for at least part of the later books then becomes to protect the cosmere by figuring out what is going on with the shards and helping to fix it. 

 

[GroundPetrel]

I expect a gambit pileup, for one.  

I think TOdium is going to spend most of the book freaking out and trying to un-screw the mess Rayse left him in.  

I think Kaladin will live, Szeth will not; Shallan will discover Thaidakar's end goal (and confirm that he's from another planet) even as he tells her some BS (I suspect that his end goal is to kill all the Shards and give their power to Sazed so that Sazed can take them, fuse them, and then go do nothing at all for eternity so that the cosmere can finally be free of the Shards' fumbling and wars).  Dalinar will Ascend, probably becoming Honor, and then be killed by Kelsier/Thaidakar (who I believe will be able to reach Roshar as a result of something Shallan does early in the book, resulting in her trying to stop him towards the end), who will attempt to steal the Shard but will be thwarted by concurrent schemes of Shallan and TOdium, resulting in someone else getting Honor and being completely unready for it (my money's on Navani for what it's worth).  Cultivation has to step in to help hold Odium back and the other Shards take note, making the situation on Roshar deteriorate even further and faster.  

 

That's my half-baked thoughts, anyway! 

[Unite Them]

39 minutes ago, BurntRose said:

A random thought for something to happen near the end of book 5 in the back half - Kaladin doesnt become honour, but instead becomes a representative of Harmony. 

Literally based only on this from RoW. 

  Hide contents

Ch 29 - A cage without bars 'I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by searching for the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A...sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill.' 

His mission for at least part of the later books then becomes to protect the cosmere by figuring out what is going on with the shards and helping to fix it. 

 

Well I really like that

[Jondesu]

1 hour ago, BurntRose said:

A random thought for something to happen near the end of book 5 in the back half - Kaladin doesnt become honour, but instead becomes a representative of Harmony. 

Literally based only on this from RoW. 

  Hide contents

Ch 29 - A cage without bars 'I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by searching for the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A...sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill.' 

His mission for at least part of the later books then becomes to protect the cosmere by figuring out what is going on with the shards and helping to fix it. 

 

That’s almost certainly referring to (Mistborn Era 2 spoilers):

Spoiler

Wax, who has been referred to as Harmony’s sword in, I believe, Bands of Mourning.

 

[NameIess]

56 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

I expect a gambit pileup, for one.  

I think TOdium is going to spend most of the book freaking out and trying to un-screw the mess Rayse left him in.  

I think Kaladin will live, Szeth will not; Shallan will discover Thaidakar's end goal (and confirm that he's from another planet) even as he tells her some BS (I suspect that his end goal is to kill all the Shards and give their power to Sazed so that Sazed can take them, fuse them, and then go do nothing at all for eternity so that the cosmere can finally be free of the Shards' fumbling and wars).  Dalinar will Ascend, probably becoming Honor, and then be killed by Kelsier/Thaidakar (who I believe will be able to reach Roshar as a result of something Shallan does early in the book, resulting in her trying to stop him towards the end), who will attempt to steal the Shard but will be thwarted by concurrent schemes of Shallan and TOdium, resulting in someone else getting Honor and being completely unready for it (my money's on Navani for what it's worth).  Cultivation has to step in to help hold Odium back and the other Shards take note, making the situation on Roshar deteriorate even further and faster.  

 

That's my half-baked thoughts, anyway! 

That seems like quite a lot to happen in book five. I think that Shallan vs the Ghostbloods, or at least Shallan vs Thaidakar, is going to be mostly saved for the back half, as a war against an inter-planetary mafia will require quite a bit of Cosmere awareness, and would probably require more than what Brandon has indicated is going to happen.

[GroundPetrel]

On 8/2/2021 at 8:00 PM, Nameless said:

That seems like quite a lot to happen in book five. I think that Shallan vs the Ghostbloods, or at least Shallan vs Thaidakar, is going to be mostly saved for the back half, as a war against an inter-planetary mafia will require quite a bit of Cosmere awareness, and would probably require more than what Brandon has indicated is going to happen.

Fair I guess.  (Also I checked the WOB records and apparently Thaidakar is still restricted to Scadrial's system by the time of Wax & Wayne which is after Stormlight, which is a shame because I really, REALLY want to see him and Shallan face off.  I would love to see him play her like a harp in the first half of whatever arc they end up in, only for her to turn around and out-gambit him in the most spectacular possible way in the end.  I feel that they should be not quite friendly rivals with an immense respect for each other lol)

[RedBlue]

I really doubt we’re going to see much of Thaidakar in Stormlight 5. He might be namedropped, and confirmed to be a Cognitive Shadow from a different planet, but other than that? I can’t see it happening.

First off, there are too many other plot threads that need to be addressed and wrapped up in Stormlight 5, and Thaidakar is tangential to all of those. The pacing would feel really off if we suddenly took a break from the Odium threat to find out more about a guy who isn’t an immediate problem.

Secondly, Thaidakar’s motives, plans and so on really need to be Mistborn reveals. That’s where the buildup has happened.