Robinski

Hi @PiedPeterPiper, Welcome to the group. Having read the sample in your message, I think you're going to fit in just fine . There are skills there. It is not bad! As for geekiness, well, you've come to the right place. Anti-geek assassins tend to turn around at the door, recognising they are hopelessly outnumbered. have you read the original Fuzzy stories, ironically by H. Beam Piper? Yes, always regrettable when such good writing is not produced by a good person. I also love that story.

Well, essentially, you just ask to join. There is a very loose 26-point character evaluation, a forensic credit check and a 90-minute interview, but all of that is waived for fans of Brooklyn 99, and you just PM @Silk and myself with your preferred email address, and whoever happens to be awake at the time (it's a time zone thing) will add your email to the circulation list. Submissions are issued on Monday (generally). There's a spiel that goes with it which we generally dish out in response to the PM. I would again recommend reading the guidelines on the pinned thread just so everyone's clear on what's what.

Hi Fantasy Fanatic, Well, this is the Reading Excuses writing group, that has been operating on the site for...a number of years (about 8/9? Help me out here @Silk!). I know its more than 7 years, because I joined in 2013. We are very active at the moment, as there are four novels going through the group on a weekly basis, but there is a steady stream of new members coming and going, so you'd be welcome I'm sure. (I think we have 7 requests for 5 slots this Monday.) Please do have a look at the guidelines and maybe check out some of the critiques to get a feel for what we do here. There is a range of experience and also of progress through the publishing maze, with membership including (at least) three published authors. I would express a note of caution. We are a critique group, not a proof-reading service. Those are of course very different things, as I'm sure you know. Also, I'd say that proofreading is probably not of great immediate value if there are critiquing issues with a story, and nobody has ever critiqued it before. Hah, yes, I've been there more than once. There are not many things worse (I think) than writing in a vacuum. Luckily, there is very little better than being a member of an ace, encouraging and very supportive writing group!! Five final words of warning, for which I will simply refer to the strap line on the T-shirts we got made when six of us met up at WorldCon in Dublin (2019)... You have been warned

Hey there. I have watched Branson's lectures before, but it must have been 3/4/5 years ago, and I dare say he has updated them since them, to some degree. I must watch them again!! That's quite the quite the far-ranging question too, and has to come down to an individual writers' judgement, I think. I would say that if information does not add to the scene, however, it's probably going to come over as surplus to requirements. That said, there is place for less or more world-building depending on genre. I always think fantasy writers have greater license to lay out a bit more world-building before the reader start to roll their eyes. Agree. I always think it's a matter of degrees, and I feel the old maxim 'You can please some of the people...' (etc.) applies. As the world-building or just description builds and maybe stretches, you start to lose a proportion of the readership, and the more the author 'indulges' the higher the proportion you lose (possibly exponentially?). As you pose in your post, what is the optimal level? This is where critique groups / writing groups (like this one!!); critic partners; and alpha / beta readers come in, of course to help hone the levels. For my particular drafting process (I tend to outline 50/67% of the storyline and discovery the rest), I find I'm light on character narration, internal monologue and emotion after the first draft, and also I tend to write things the sounds cool and do what I want for the story, and then find I've under justified those plot point or character decisions. As for world-building, I'll tend to outline it with my pre-writing notes, but find I need to flesh out as I go, thereafter coming back to 'fix' inconsistencies in the first draft. I tend to be so concentrated on character and dialogue that it tends to be plot and world-building the get short-changed. Really, I should do more research / development at the start than I do presently. And as for the pyramid, well, moderation in all things for me. I tend to slontze about lack of concrete words when I cannot figure out what's going on in someone's draft, but that does not mean there is not a place for abstraction, of course. I feel it's above that abstraction remaining cohesive with the context, and still delivering meaning that the reader (or a high proportion of them) can decipher. Otherwise, that abstraction would tend to defeat the purpose, for me.

I thought it might be good to have place where we could discuss technical issues of the mechanics of writing, drop questions for the group, maybe talk about craft and such like. You may have discovered by now that this is something I feel quite strongly about <cough>, but please be assured it's not just a place for me to rant Maybe it will sink to the bottom like a stone, but I thought it was worth a test run. In all seriousness, no judgement here. There are more ways than one to skin a chapter, and it's entirely acceptable (IMO) for character dialogue (for example) to be chock full of grammatical faux pas, subject to the upbringing, and education of a character. There can also be a strong case for 'correct' grammar being subservient to style (when there is a good story reason), as classics like 1984, featuring newspeak, and A Clockwork Orange with its 'fictional register or argot', nadsat, demonstrate. Although, these are more akin to made-up languages, I suppose. But I thought this would not just be about the mechanics of writing, but also a place for discuss approaches to editing, and writing process--anything that would come under the heading of writing craft, as distinct from the creative parts of writing. Anyway, just a thought.

Woop, woop - congratulations! Non-fiction?

I like the sounds of this. Inner conflict sounds good. That's cool. I almost commented on Hamish then didn't. And Ir, yes, fairly common in Eastern Europe, I think, or close variant therefore (Irene). I take your point. I think of it in terms of (a) it depends on the POV, if it's omnipotent then yes certainly, names would fit, but I feel this is close 3rd person on Ir; (b) I imagine myself thinking about my parents, which is what Ir is doing; and (c) she calls them Ma and Pa in dialogue, I'm pretty sure, so why would she think of them in her internal monologue as Jack and Jill? I love this phrase!! De nada!

If you're submitting ( @Silk will approve the final list), you can go up to 5,000 words, per the guidelines. There is a little flex in that (maybe 10%, and it's 'the decent thing' to ask folks if they are okay with that before subbing).

Sorry! I know I'm a pain in the derrière. I (very) easily get (very) worked up about stories. You should hear me shouting at the TV (once it's paused)! Huh. It must have been all the wonder! I felt like everywhere S looked there was another strange and wonderful creature. Nice job on that Having that plan in mind during the 'resting chapter (19) would help a ton with my problems, basically would solve them all (if they are considered to be problems), in conjunction with the thread of 'if we get through this. It would be very Or (and very funny) if he were to say what he says about fodder, then thinks 'Oops, maybe I should be having to have said that. Ri will pluck out my tail feathers.' Although maybe that's not an appropriate laugh point. Right, right. As soon as I typed (and posted) that I was thinking 'the name does sound familiar, though'. Yep! Planning for the future. I am front a centre for a under the sea adventure of discovery. Which I know you always do in later drafts anyway, but obviously my 'job' is to bellyache about it in the here-and-now

Yes, I think you're right. I really think this is 'all that I would need to keep my onboard and head of the ranting at the pass.

Anyway, comments! (page 1) - "handful of books" - This is completely clear, but my brain rebels against it, because you can't really hold more than a couple of books--maybe three--in one hand. - I like the opening. I like the dreamy effect of Me emerging from her dwam (Scots word - state of semi-conscious reverie). It's a really nice way of recapping how she got here without it seeming like exposition. Nicely done. I am slightly curious how and why Mi is in her room, but I presume I'm going to find that out. - After our chat 'offline' (or in a different online dimension?), I'm on high alert for Ta, and how she features in this chapter - "You can touch my face" - Whoa!!!! The romantic tension here is off the scale. Boom! - "Me focused on his thoughts" - Oh, I thought she had stopped doing this? (page 2) - "Not here" - Why not there? Are they not in Me's room? It can't get much more private than that, surely? Although she does share it, I suppose. (page 3) - "just lean her head on A’s soft shoulder" - Sometimes, it almost seems more like Me has a thing for A than Ta. - "She wasn’t as soft as A" - See? This is what I'm talking about. - "Her fingers lingered on M’s chin" - It's getting just a bit weird in this scene now. Everyone is touching her, or thinking about touching her, or she is thinking about them touching her. (page 4) - "L and Z" - I don't know who that is. - "M asked about you" - He was just here though. A saw him, surely? (page 6) - "gooey cheese" - I think this chapter needs an 'S' warning. This is just food porn now (page 9) - "drape an arm over M" - There is a lot of repetition of this gesture. It comes across as very possessive. That doesn't make it wrong, and it fits with the jealous vibe coming off Ta, but the possessive thing feels, awkward, tending toward unlikeable. - "she was skipping movie night" - Lots of good romantic tension in this scene. Very triangular, BUT. The thing is, its becoming a love square, because it seems that Al is very much a part of it. - Who are P and Y? I don't believe they've been mentioned in the story so far, have they? (page 12) - "The car was a yard away" - I'm not going to do the mechanics, but I think that's too close. Why would she wait until the car got that close, when she has all this time that she has created? (page 13) - "they would’ve used a truck or an SUV" - I don't buy this logic. He very easily could have been killed by a small car. There is an argument to say there was a smaller chance, but small cars very much can kill a person too. - "wanted to capture him alive" - I do like this idea though. I like her logic, I just don't think it follows automatically from the size of the vehicle. Maybe it could be expressed in terms of 'if they wanted to be sure of killing him' or 'guarantee killing him'? Maybe the way the car came at them it was clear that it was only trying to wing him, not hit him head-on. - LOL, this chapter is food porn, I knew it? Ice cream, French fries? Oh, man. I'm so hungry now. Me want bacon. OVERALL I think you really nailed your objective of playing up the triangle, although I do think it is now a square. I still think you are right, however, that more background, more feeling for Ta as a character is required for the reader to invest in the triangle/square. At the moment, Al has more about her character than Ta does. I enjoyed this chapter though. There was backloads of angst, there was tension, and there was action. Plenty of emotion to heap on the raw wounds of demon hunting. All-in-all, I was really quite pleased with it. Good job, IMO.

That is adorable. Far too much hilarity though. Surely we can all agree that school is supposed to be a completely miserable experience, occasionally punctuated by Summer? No? Just me?

I think maybe cutting down the first two sections will help this one feel more important. I really want to have this in there, because it's important for the relationship between the three. Generally it seems like the others like the S/E/I relationship more, where you enjoy more of the adult's story, so that might be part of why you bounced off this. I certainly would not cut anything in this chapter, personally. It was all very interesting, but I feel that what is lost is the background of all the tension and stakes. You can very easily keep this section, IMO, but maybe there could be a line or two like 'Will we even get a chance to have a child? Will there be a word left for them to live in? That kind of stuff. It's like all the characters have forgotten the stakes, and their perilous situation. If each of the characters acknowledged the situation, how they are on the edge of the Dis, then I wouldn't change anything about the chapter, just lace through it, in each POV, the threat to their futures. Yes, absolutely. But I feel the hope is all that plays through this chapter, and the threat is forgotten. One or two rays of hope are great, and absolutely necessary, but if the general tone is bright and positive, the rays of hope do not shine so clearly. I know we have several chapters to come, but I think of Frodo and Sam on the slopes of Mount Doom, how desperate their situation was, but they were still moving forward, and they talk about hope, and the talk about after (I'm sure they do, they certainly talk about the Shire), but the pervading atmosphere all around them is one of darkness and dread. That's what's missing in the chapter, IMO; the darkness; the threat; the dread. I really would try and keep them. I'd be sorry to see any of the scene gone from the story. It was probably lost in the ranting, but I certainly did like each of the sections. I felt it was just all three together, and what seemed to be a loss of focus on the thread of the whole book, but that can be injected into each scene, just to show the characters are still afraid, concerned for their futures, and the future of their world as they know it, without losing any of the scenes. Here comes by 10c, also thinking out loud. Could you split them up? Maybe take one into an earlier chapter, then maybe put in a planning scene into this chapter. Even if you have a big strategy session coming up in Chapter 21. Man is talking to Ori, and I really like that scene. It's like it's been coming for three books and I would hate to lose it, but then Ri comes in, and the three of them (also not a scene we have ever seen, I think?) talk about going out as emissaries, and Man can be all inspiring leader and say stuff like, I'm entrusting you with these vital missions, you are our only hope <cough>, bring back aid or we might never be able to defeat the El. It leads into the next chapters, reminds the reader of the tension they should be feeling, and stakes and things getting worse, while retaining these enjoyable interludes that you have in this chapter (or possibly moved a bit).

Well, now. This chapter becomes freighted with particular significance for me after my reaction to the last one. Pre-crit comments I can cut-and-paste my thought on the last chapter in here, as I really don't think the plot has been moved on much at all, apart from the last couple of pages. But now, I really, really need to feel that the Dis is still relevant to the story, and the characters are not all busy planning their future families, what experiments they are going to do once they've mopped up the El, how they are going to develop the SoTH, and all these things that should not be in their minds when they should be fighting for their lives (IMO). (page 1) - "so little time" - And there it is, right up front in the first line of the epigraph; the sense of urgency that was, IMO, completely absent in the last chapter. - "five more species" - But there are more than five new species in the other facet, are there not? And the Gr make six? Seven? - "low pull of MH" - Ooh, that's interesting. What's going on here then? - "tinking" - What is this? Is it like clanking? (page 2) - "We ain’t gonna convince them any faster" - Okay, this is actually a comment on the previous Chapter, 19. There was no talk about Or and Kr and Gr coming to the P home world. There was no planning in the last chapter of how to defeat the enemy. This feels like a gaping hole to me, because the implication is strongly present that such a meeting took place, because In and En were discussing being asked to convince the Ar in the other facet to fight, IMO, as if that group meeting had already taken place. The thing is, I feel that the reader has earned the right to see that meeting. All the parties gathered around wringing their hands, how are we going to defeat the enemy, we must build a coalition, bring all the nations together to face this common foe. It's a scene that can have massive power and be a real cheering moments. It's the the House of Elrond, basically, and yet it's not there. I feel like its absence sticks out like a sore thumb. (page 5) - "soon escorted into a cavern deep underground" - Is this because it is underneath the plateau? I'm unclear on the blocking, and this feels really sudden to me, like there's a scene break, except there isn't. - "paused in front of the stool the mother perched on" - 'paused' sounds like they are not planning on staying, like pausing to look out a window before moving on. Also, there is no sense of arrival, no sense of the space they are in, IMO. This is a throne room, but it feels like they step right into it, with no description. This scene feels rushed to me. (page 9) - "They are tough creatures" - I feel that Or is massively underselling how dangerous the El are. They are bringing on the Dis, or accelerating it. The Council are dead, it's Armageddon! - "and start begging" - I just feel the pacing of the tension is off. He goes from not stressing or describing how bad things are to thinking about begging. I really believe the pacing of the stakes, the negotiation, would benefit from a review. - "We are not intending to throw them in front as fodder" - I think, in essaying a successfully negotiation, using the word fodder AT ALL, is a rather severe miscalculation. I don't think Or's message is clear. Surely he has had time to think it out better than this. Surely, there were a few minutes in the strategy meeting that we didn't get to see, when the fate of the Imp and the Assembly was discussed, to review how to approach each of the nations that I presume different envoys are being sent to gain aid from. It can be such a grand scene. I see Man rallying the troops, making a rousing speech: - Dunno, that's a bit weak and thrown together, but I'm just try to stress my point about the potential power of the rallying scene, and what a sense of command it can give Man. (page 11) - "campaign advertisements" - What, are they in the primaries? - "were ready to come out of hiding" - Did they not just say that they have come out? They are advertising. (page 12) - "tracing the design of K’s leg joint" - LOL. - "He hadn’t thought he would get this chance" - I believe that Or should deny himself the chance, because he is so wracked with urgency to get back to Pol and plan the fight against the El. Surely, he does not have time a swan around catching up with folk. Stakes, urgency, closing chapters, more tension. (page 13) - "the ceiling of the N" - Yay! - I don't remember who Pan is. (page 14) - Love the Gr names. (page 16) - Why don't the Gr towns and cities have names? Or rather, why are the names not used in conversation? I can't remember. - There is a bit more urgency and dread about the encounters between Or and the Pi, and Ri and the Gr, but in both I would like more internal monologue about the desperation of the situation. BUT, the main issue for me is that the situation does not feel as desperate as I would like. Sure, the Imp is overrun with El, and they are eating at the wall, but I come back to my earlier point that I don't see any signs of the Imp, of the Net being destroyed. I would expect to see the harbingers of Dis now, the fabric crumbly, signs that the El succeeding, and that the end is nigh. (page 17) - "Predators hold sway there" - Did we see those in Journey? I don't remember the nature of the predators. (page 18) - [Car's description of the state of the Imp] - Going back to my comments on the last chapter, there is still an underlying tone in Car's words that these are temporary setbacks. That's all very well for one person to be confident that they can get through, but when everybody reacts to the Dis like it is a temporary setback, I fear that the reader will not consider it a real theat, and therefore not be especially fearful that anything bad is going to happen, ergo no real stakes, therefore much reduced emiotional impact/buy-in/resonance. - "truly sorry for your loss" - Another aspect of stakes being watered down was that Car's description of the situation was in terms that were not emotive. They did not say (but could have) that the Council had been destroyed, and the Assembly was scattered and depleted (for example), but rather they said people were 'out of post', a bit disorganised at the moment, in effect. (page 19) - "She travels beneath the W/S" - Novella!! (page 20) - "You should have told us this information earlier" - Fair point. Kind of rude to ask for help first without explaining the situation. - "to keep quiet" - Why has nobody discussed their negotiation tactics with their companions? It's crazy! I always think of Ri as an organised sort. And, this tends to hark back to my point about about the 'missing' call to action meeting. (page 22) - "We have heard what we need" - They have not heard very much. Would it be so hard to go through a portal and show them? Or, put it another way, would it be unreasonable for the Gr to ask to be taken through a portal to see (from a distance), and for Ri to explain why this is not possible, this building the threat by expelling how the El consume energy. I don't think this group has made an especially strong case. - "doubtful they would be able to put the skill to use anytime soon" - Again, the presumption that the world is not ending, that this will blow over in time (page 23) - Ri's thoughts on going to sleep hold nothing about the threat to the Imp, not really. There's no real concern that it's the end of days. Just a problem they will solve and move on with life as if it didn't happen. (page 24) - "a contingent of Gr" - vague. How many? In a situation, a discussion like this, I would expect there to be talk of numbers. 'How many troops can you send?' Ri needs to know this in order for Man to form a plan for their deployment. I appreciate you might not plan to go into that detail, but it would be good to know if we're talking about 10, 100, 1000? That way, Ri can react to it, which she doesn't here. ONCE AGAIN, she presumes that this is not the end, and that it's a matter of time before everything is back to normal. The Gr leader makes the same assumption. Every single character assumes this will pass. OVERALL I can be brief. The shape of the chapter is spot on, emissaries going out to bring aid back to the fight. My problem remains the same as the previous chapters. The stakes of the story are gone, disappeared, and every person with a voice thinks and talks about what happens after it's all sorted. In my mind, the threat of the Dis and the El has become irrelevant, and I'm coasting towards the end of the book and the inevitable freeing of the Imp, and banishment of the El. I have no worries now. The tension is gone, and I'm just reading to see how they win.

Yes, and then there's untrained children!! Come to think of it, I'm sure dogs are not allowed in UK supermarkets, apart from guide-dogs. I mean, I'm a hopeless romantic, and need to have romance to some degree in all my stories, but if character done well, there is absolutely no necessity for it. By the same token, even if there is no romantic subplot, it does not mean that the character cannot have romantic thoughts, or even act on them, but it not be part of a long-running, over-arch plot thread. And, glad to hear you enthused enough to enjoy editing It was almost June.

Yes, @Snakenaps, very glad that you are here. The more I read of Name then more I am convinced that it deserves to be published. I'm no expert in that area, but I think it has a very strong sense of identity, of place (up to a point), and of character. It's actually quite refreshing to read a character that is good, thoughtful, caring and has a strong (sense of) family bonds. So much in fiction now is about antiheroes and gritty, grim, darkness. I enjoy the sense of hope that runs through Name, and I'd love to see you have a good go at getting it in print

Hmph. I seem to be swimming against the tide again, but really, I stand by my comments. The word 'Dis' appears once in the chapter, and the word 'Eld' appears five times. The further I read--past halfway anyway--I felt like the Dis doesn't even matter any more.

Properly excited to keep reading! Pre-crit Comments I feel like I've seen a lot of personal stakes for the various characters, and we've seen the El destroy individuals, and attack the walls of the N. What I want to see now, as thing approach the climax, are signs that the Diss is coming on now. I want to see large scale destruction, maybe the horror of big chunks falling from the walls of the N: cataclysmic stuff. I really think that would ratchet the tension up incredibly. I also find myself thinking that the death of a fairly major character about now would put down a marker for the reader that we are approaching the end of the trilogy, and nobody is safe. I feel were are very much in 'things getting worse', also 'now, and' or maybe 'yes, but'. (page 1) - The epigraph almost seems a bit prosaic for where we are in the story, but I think it works well, and I'm suspecting it offers a clue to how to defeat the El. (page 2) - "made R his second" - Bit confused here. So, he hasn't adopted the position of head of the Council? If he has, I think that needs to be stated explicitly here. R being second doesn't feel like it means that much. Second of what? - "the wheel of life and death" - I don't recall this being mentioned in any of the books so far. This is very late to introduce some new spiritual concept, however I'm presuming it's not going to play a big part, that it's just a passing reference. - "Time is short" - But they're waiting on him to start surely? Weird line. - I think it would be interesting to see some ambivalence from M in his reference to the Ar remaining alive. Suggestion in LBLs (by email). (page 3) - "He'd found hints in M's store..." - Yay, Moor!! Love Society of T.H. - "not that you are Ar" - I'm completely flummoxed by this line. What can he mean? Of course they are Ar! - Really like M's observations: always the investigator (page 4) - "The A in G prison" - nicely played here. I had no idea what the 'acc' was, but it was neatly explained in the context of the conversation, thankfully, with M's confusion mirroring my own. (page 5) - "though he had been nowhere near there" - LOL. Excellent call back to that earlier incident. Pleased to say that I remembered it reasonably well <thumbs up> (page 6) - "that may have factored into the AW" - LOL. Seems like a massive understatement. Made me chortle. (page 10) - "You would become a formal part..." - This is very cold and impersonal. I'd prefer it if they were invited to become members of the SoTH (Hah! There's a subtitle for this book: Revenge of the SoTH ). (page 12) - So, I'm have way through the chapter and it certainly hasn't developed as my reader brain hoped it would. Then again, reflecting on it now, I totally see the need for this scene at this point. I like how it played out, although it was quite dry in places. I think maybe I jumped the gun in terms of what I was hoping for, and still hope to see things getting worse in the next chapter, or maybe even the one after that. I remain of the view that things need to get worse, that we need to see the imminence of massive facet-wide disaster and destruction. (page 13) - "which was belching steam" - Hmm, how is it vented in this tunnel? - Great to see a scene with Man and Or together on their own. I'm sure there has never been such a scene in 2.75 books, plus related volumes. - "He had never had the chance for an in-depth discussion..." - Ha! (page 16) - "lacks a knowledge of the maj" - I don't understand what he's getting at here. - I've made a suggestion in the LBLs when Or refers to experimenting with S's two abilities. I couldn't resist, sorry! I just think its rather hilarious, and plays to Or's character (page 20) - "We shall have to test..." - This chapter, for me, lacks a clear arc, and a compelling through line. There is some very interesting stuff going on, but it's really quite episodic, and doesn't add much if anything to the plot, or their very present and urgent predicament. I appreciate it might be very important, but it seems to me that each separate episode / scene of the chapter is about research, testing, gaining new knowledge, experimenting. Also, Man is looking beyond the Dis, and that's fine, but it diminishes the present, and robs the situation of the high tension that's been built up. The next chapter is going to have to be a doozy to rectify this, IMO, if all momentum is not to be lost. - By the time I get to En and In talking about planning future tests I'm really getting quite frustrated and about ready to start skimming. - "Their intended? That was awkward." - And inaccurate. Although they've talked along those lines, nobody has proposed to anybody else, so it would be a unilateral decision on their part (if that's possible), and therefore could not be considered to be binding on S. (page 22) - "We are likely descended..." - I'm just not interested in this at this point in time. The world is ending! Now, I could see this working as them contemplating their existence near the end, but it doesn't come over as that. (page 23) - "And do we want children?" - ARRRRGGGHHHH! I'm really frustrated. First Man has been thinking beyond the Dis, and now these two are doing it, presuming that the world will go on, they will survive and making plans for after the Dis. I really do feel this is destroying the tension that has built up--basically telling us the end of the story, and that life will go on. 'Don't worry, there are going to be weddings and new societies, and experiments. The El will be mopped up and everything will go back to normal. I think this is a serious problem, personally. (page 24) - "when the universe is no longer on the edge of destruction" - No!!!!!! I'm fizzing now. Nobody is taking the threat seriously, nobody. This is like a chapter from a different book. - "Do we even want to ask them?" - THIS. Here are the stakes of this chapter, on the second last page. This is where the tension is, the stress, the massive cost, the risk. Everything that has gone before, IMO, is very interesting, but completely academic detail. This is where the heart, the passion, the fear and the drama is: Man asking In and En to go to the other facet and convince and group of Ar who have renounced violence to take arms against a sea of demon monsters from another dimension, to ask the Ar--who were hounded almost out of existence by the other species of this facet--to fight with those same species, all together against a common enemy. This will be incredibly difficult, and the last remaining Ar would be entitled to tell them to go and raffle themselves (Glasgow expression). (page 25) - "perhaps we may track down the assassins and end them" - But that is a sideshow. It's the end of the world. Why has everyone forgotten about the Dis? - "We’ll accept if they ask us to recruit the Ar" - I thought they had already been asked by Man. OVERALL Well, I think I've left almost everything up above, but in summary, I'm really quite frustrated by this chapter. A lot of it feels like epilogue material to me, and I think it takes the stakes built up in the last eighteen chapters and just chucks them out the window. I don't know what I'm supposed to care about now, it certainly doesn't seem to be the Dis, which is just a minor inconvenience that everyone appears to have forgotten about.

Comments: “dropped in horror” – I don’t believe it would be horror. That implies to me they have gone immediately past shock and surprise. I don’t think they would get there that fast. Also, I reckon that there must be some vague hope in Car’s heart for a miracle, and that she would snatch hope at the chance first, maybe, before coming to a more nervous realisation. I think the negative reaction is too quick. “The fire wasn’t from the charms failing” – Whaaaaaaaaaat? I was told she had a plan, but she’s just gone straight out a broken the contract as fast as she possibly could, after acknowledging in her own thoughts that the monarchy might be spying on her. I really don’t believe this. I need to know what the clever plan is before she breaks the contract. I mean, she doesn’t even pause, or give it a second thought. Okay, it gets explained that Ir feels a little truth is essential, and I accept that, but I don’t see any reason to withhold Ir’s thought process from the reader beforehand. That felt a bit like false tension to me. “those Fey” – Huh? There has been reference to Fey in the north, but I don’t think it’s ever been mentioned that the invading M are Fey. And they look just like everyone else, don’t they? I mean, the king is a unicorn, right? Okay, that’s a fantastical creature, but there are dragons in the general populace, so it can’t be that simple. “or by M when the BK is done with you” – I’ve been struggling a little with this name. I know it’s the name of the invading nation, but it looks *very* like Mathias, which is the Christian name of a person, typically in Germany (or Austria, I suppose. Maybe Switzerland). So, each time it comes up, I think it’s a person, just for a moment, before I remember it’s the BK’s nation. “I’ll be in your restaurant cooking for you one year from now” – I love this determination, I just love it. Great character building. Again there is mention in Ir’s POV of her mother and father by their first names. Children just do not think of their parents that way. It’s very disorienting in person narrative. Have I mentioned that I don’t think it? I don’t like it. “R’s blessed planet” – Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa there. Are you telling is (which you are) that they have sufficiently sophisticated science that they know they are on a planet? This is a massive shift in my perspective. “Why?” piped up…adults were nodding.” – This whole section is heavily expositional. I would cut it, or heavily reword it. (1) we don’t need to contemplate this right now; (2) families don’t talk this way, IMO, hence maid-and-butler; and (3) it’s too soon after the initial revelation, I feel. LOL, I like the closing of the chapter. It's nice to mix up the endings and not hor terribly portentous lines every time. Nice job there. Overall This is a strong chapter, IMO. The scene with Car and Gr was powerful stuff, lots of emotions. I thought it worked really well. The scene with her family, well, you have my comments. It’s okay up to a point, but there is a big wodge of exposition in there that I think can be almost completely excised. Still enjoying the story and looking forward to discovering where it goes

Yeah, I was pretty proud of that one. Occurs to me on reading this that most likely it would be grandkids. That is my experience of grandparents. Because, but the time they are grandparents, their kids have lost the newborn shine...somewhat

At office parties, everyone's a drag. The keyword is 'office'. I love this train of thought. I expect the graffiti just spells everything out, but no one can read it ;-) And what are they going to use to scratch into N crystal?

It took me several years to listen through all twelve / thirteen seasons (as it was by the time I got caught up, I think there were only 8 or 9 the I started listening). I really love being caught up thought, and listening weekly. I have learned so much. I have a binder with all my notes, although I've only printed out up to Season 12 presently. I used to do all the prompts religiously, but actually it got that I didn't have time, because of writing, which is kind of the point, of course. I started doing only the ones that interested me, now I don't do them at all. I guess this chat should be over the WE thread! It's weird how it's so quiet over there, I always think. Very little crossover between the two threads. Anyway, it's really interesting how the dynamics have changed at WE. The introduction of MRK was what really put the podcast on the map, IMO, and it is sooooo much more inclusive now, and diverse. The thing I slightly regret is how Brandon's input is actually fairly light nowadays, but there are always his lectures on YooToob.

hmm...he's also been mentioned in all three books and has had several speaking parts. I'm going to retract this comment. I think possibly I was being a bit lazy there, and if I'd been reading rather than critiquing, I'm not sure if I would have had this concern. Lol. Now I think I may need to play this up some more. It's just soooooo, R. These are the little details that do the work of half a page of description, IMO.

A chapter is a chapter, IMO, doesn't matter where it comes from, or the background to it. One of the novels I put through here a couple of years back came out of a writing prompt from WE, which was to write the same dead drop scene with three different characters. From the exercise came the first Q and M novel, TMM. I used the same characters to write the various prompts from WE Season 10, the first 17 episode/prompts, in fact, before going on from there to write the novel. So, yes, please do submit. I look forward to reading it

Comments, with a rather large gap from the previous chapter, for some unknown reason. (page 1) - "ones who interface with members of other species who have the power to shape perception" - Who has the power to share perception, the ones or the members? - I get that the epigraph is conveying information that, no doubt, will be useful in the course of this chapter, and there's no doubt that it is interesting, but it's not especially compelling this late in the story. - "who called themselves Z and P" - Good, I'm glad this is right up front. - "roasted desert jumper" - For me here in the UK, this reads like 'sweater'. (page 2) - "N and the faux J, played by Z and P, and backed up by the ancient Z" - Phrasing a bit confusing, IMO. So, does Z play N and P play J? They can't both play J, can they? There are just so many names here, and some are posing as others. I'm afraid I feel, and have never felt, any real affinity or identification with any of these characters, apart from N. I think it's because they just do not appear often enough or consistently enough in the story for their names or characters to stick. Add into the mix that one, two(?) are disguised as one (two?) of the other names, and it's just too much to try and track. My brain shuts down, and I don't really care. Another obstacle to me embracing this POV--and R's voice remains excellent--is that I don't know what's going on, and no body else seems to know what's going on. I don't know what it's got to do with the Diss, and I do not feel any urgency around these events, no focus. - "Which one are yer today?" - QED. - "What’s going on with S" - Who? (page 3) - "P has their own role now. No more sharing for us." - So, P is playing N, as noted above? No, P is playing S? - And another name beginning with 'Z' that I don't remember. LC, I suppose, I do vaguely recall that. (page 4) - "the h/ws are divided" - Are they? Don't remember that. - "it was part of the A" - neat! - Awesome description of the smile / teeth. Very nicely done. This is the sort of stuff we need to make us fear the Ar. (page 5) - "though they once hunted us like prey animals" - This is the main motivation of the Ar, it seems to me, in being here. To take revenge on the Sa, who hunted them to near extinction (in this facet). I think it would help my buy-in to this POV if that point was played up much more, assuming it is their motivation in coming here. Also, prey animals seems like tautology to me, OR it reads like the Sa were hunting the Ar for food, which was not the case...........I assume?! (page 6) - "two steps to one side, two steps to the other" - This sounds weird to me, more like dancing. - "the misguided A, to show them the error of their ways" - This implies that the Ar had some choice in their form, which even the Sa must have known was not the case. The phrasing, therefore, sounds off to me. 'Error', again, implies that the Ar chose their nature. - "the family of your friends was the sole remainder of the P" - Ooh, now you have my attention. This seems like new information. (page 8) - I'm a little surprised R is allowed to pick his own accommodation, rather than being put under watch by the Ar. Also, surprised that he gets an invitation to the meeting, rather than a summons. (page 10) - "pounded a gloved fist into his other hand" - I feel this is really melodramatic. (page 11) - "and negotiate with the prophesied ones" - LOL, excellent. That's called their bluff. - "Her eyes marked R" - Uh, oh. (page 15) - "the guard leapt in front of her leader" - This is a great moment, but, does the guard not lead with their spear? And if not, why not? (page 16) - "at some unknown trigger" - I didn't, nor have I ever, noticed a particular trigger. As far as I can see the El attack at the first opportunity. - "leapt after several minutes" - I feel like this is new behaviour. (page 19) - "circling the portal" - blocking: I pictured them standing between the El and the portal, and yet there is no suggestion that it comes past them, so, my mental picture must be off. - This is a completely chilling moment, the El going through the portal. Although, it begs the question whether that is sufficient to allow the voids to start forming on Sa Home. And, this would be the first h/world infested, I think And, therefore a test of whether it is only the Ne that the El are interested in. - "and out the other side" - Whoaaaaaaa! (page 25) - "They turned into the next alley, the guards following" - This is a weak last line. OVERALL Good chapter, I was not immediately engaged by it, but as the stakes grew, and in particular when they came to the Imp., things god really interesting. A nice switcher to put R and Na together. We've always know that R's moral compass was a bit...off true north, I feel. For him to be working with the Eff's murderer is particularly challenging, but I can see the thought process given what they are fighting against. I'm very much anticipating the reuniting of R with his gooey-eyed friends. That is going to be interesting. Nice work.