Robinski

Hey, @Asmodemon, I'm so sorry I have not been through you comments yet. It's just madness ATM and not even down to CV-19. I really do appreciate you reading and hope to respond tomorrow

Maybe post it up on the Reading Excuses Facebook page? There are 156 likes / followers. Not sure how many active, but it would be nice to build up some activity there. I'm terrible at doing that!!

Hey, everyone! I do believe there is something of a consensus that having a thread to collect posts, news, questions and general chit-chat on the business elements of writing would be a useful thing. So, here it is. The thread name is self-explanatory, I hope (but also kind of boring, so open to suggestions for a snappier name.) Cheers, Robinski p.s. @Silk, I wonder if this might be pinned? I don't think there's too much clutter at the top of the forum.

Hey, folks. I'm really sorry about this, I'm already behind in grits and grit responses, but I'm going to have to delay a couple more days or so. I'm subbing to an agent and need to get my 'rust' together. First four chapters of TMM, which I am going to edit, then edit the synopsis again, then go over my covering letter again. I'm really not that happy with it to be honest.

Love publishing; hate rollercoasters!

@kais is brimful of good advice. Listening to their sage words is a good strategy! From what I have seen there are numerous different ways to 'do it right'. I jumped into endorsing your doc because that it exactly the sort of thing I do, and I think you can glean very interesting stuff from that, but as Kais reminds us, it's good to focus on what's valuable now. Have you listened to this week's Writing Excuses podcast? Wouldn't you know it, it's on the subject to querying!! It's more about how to approach that psychologically than about the mechanics of it, but there are some interesting nuggets, like how Brandon basically avoided querying because he didn't like it. The only non-form rejection he got (of many) was from Joshua Bilmes, who is his agent. Now of course, if Brandon writes out a grocery list, it gets published (to paraphrase Mary-Robinette). Yeah, I find it quite tricking. you tend to stop seeing some folks' tweets if they don't post much, or you don't respond to them much. It does take some managing, and deliberate searching out of things, I think. Some authors and agents will do AMAs from time to time, and it can be really good just reading the Qs and As, even without participating. But you should participate, as it will raise your profile a bit. Also good to follows associations. I'd say include some UK ones too. We are 'divided by a comment language', after all Joking aside though, it's a readily available market, and a really well established and 'rich' one two, I think, when you look at the heritage of UK SFF. I believe there is no geographic barrier to entering work in competitions run by the British Fantasy Society, the British SF Association, etc. and there are a goodly number of publishers of all scales in the UK, publications and platforms to market to. Oooh, I love talking about publishing. I bet there is source material on YouTube too, talks by publishers, agents and editors. It just occurred to me as something I should check out. One of the best, absolutely invaluable, aspects of going to WorldCon for me, was going to numerous panels on publishing, including what agents are looking for, talks on contract terms, experience of agents, etc. etc. etc. It was just fascinating. One thing that WE stress every time they talk about publishing is picking the right publisher, agent or editor to approach. Doing the research to know about them as people before approaching them, to not target them, and to ALWAYS treat them as people. I mean, why wouldn't you? but I guess some writers maybe don't see it that way. I could go on all day. @Silk, I wonder if we should have a Business of Writing (or Publishing) thread? Or do we just keep all this stuff in Lounge?

Hey @Silk, thank you so much for reading. Apologies for the delay in responding. TOO MUCH HAPPENING!!! Cool. Excellent I think there is a word for words in English that don't have an opposite. I forget what it is now... <consults the internet> Ah, yes, unpaired words. Like 'Postpone', apparently in India they say 'Prepone', but not very much. Scrutable does not seem to fall into this category, for what it's worth. Take your point. I was trying to distinguish between M and E, but I don't want it to sound weird. I've changed it. Check and... I was going for cool phrasing, but I've reworded to make it clearer. Well, all I've got really is that it was M's job to find them and he could not. Cleaned up, I think. Tidied up. Hi five indeed! Check. Excellent. Okay. I liked to think he was hedging pretty hard, and demonstrating how uncomfortable he was with it. I'll note it for the next edit. Emmmmmmm, because the ideas were coming to me around this point. I'll need to try and tidy up here. These last few chapters were rewritten pretty heavily, so they are probably needing more tidying (even) than the earlier ones. That's good! I'm pleased. I think one or two folks though it was the airstrike, but buy thinking was it would make a much bigger bang than that. This is a fair point, although I didn't find it to be a stumbling block for this chapter. It's possible that that's because I'm picking up reading after a little while, though. Yeah, there is not much I can say about this. I'll see how it feels to an alpha reader next time through, I think. That's probably months away. Cool I found this idiom a bit hard to parse, too. And seconding Mandamon's comment here. If you needed a reason for K to suddenly decide he needs to get the hell out of dodge, you could potentially have the soldiers recognize him as being on the lam? Right. I'll need to ponder this so more. I actually really liked this moment. Making the whole thing slightly less unpleasant is hardly necessary, and it strikes me as one of the mundane little things that could very much be what breaks someone's composure, especially when tensions are already running high. (I liked Q's bafflement as well.) That said, considering they've been in a van this whole time, I do wonder where Q got it to begin with. Well, they were in a vehicle K borrowed from the sheriff's department lot. I might ascribe a bit of WRS here. I'll see what the alpha thinks down the line. I started laughing uncontrollably when I read this, and am now dead. I think part of this is that Q tends to sound very confident when he's making assumptions, and in this case the others let it ride, so it was definitely easy to interpret the original version of this dialogue as a sure thing. Uh-huh. Fair comment. I think it's better now. Great comments, thanks so much for reading, @Silk. I feel that I got off relatively unscathed this time

Far be it from me to send anyone in the direction of social media, but... In terms of developing knowledge of the industry, one of the things I find really quite helpful--aside from WE, which was really my introduction to 'industry issues', and going to my first con in August '19, is Twitter. Following writers, and lit agents and editors really does expand ones horizons a fare bit if you find the right ones. I find Anne Tibbets really good to follow. She is no nonsense, and really good at explaining (in short posts) why she didn't pick something up.

Wow. That's great. As you say, it's a massive subject. A section on markets would be particularly useful as you move forward, although, it's probably rather a fruitless task, as there are resources already in that vein, for example Submission Grinder: https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com Also, there are small presses that others will be able to tell you more about than I can. So, so, so much to cover before you even consider expanding it to cover UK entries under similar headings. Well done, This will be a useful resource for many on here, I am sure

Noted! TMM is only 90,000 words, so it's a relative breeze, I think. Oh, yah. Do you know, I think if you are finding it hard, as you describe, then you are probably doing it right!! If the revising is easy, something is wrong That's a deal I'm happy for you not to, on the basis that you haven't read what went before. Also, I doesn't seem fair of me to to ask you to read TMM or TCC, given that I'm not going to be editing them for a while.

Muah-hah-ha-ha! Seriously though, I genuinely (as I know the other do too) look forward to reading every single new voice that comes through here. It's always exciting to open that file for the first time. Just as exciting as I know it is nerve-racking to send your work out for the first time!!

Yay. I'd just like to drop in here and say I will NOT be submitting on Monday. Wow! It feels like I'm on holiday Looking forward to the other subs (and catching up on last week's).

I'm reading these comments now. It really is a different style: it's very effective. Seems to me I'm always striving to give writerly feedback, when what we need sometimes is more readerly feedback. This dovetails nicely with the giving and receiving critique thread. I like your style, @Snakenaps!

Blame @Robinski. He suggested more death and destruction! Yeesh!

Great logic! Let me think on your kind offer. I've just got to the end of TCC, so now I really need to go through a full edit with all the thematic details and comments I've been picking up along the way. There's always Book 1 of course. TMM needs an edit for consistency with TCC now, but I would insist on reciprocating in some way, if there's something of yours that I could read in return?

That's impressive!

Hey Sarah, thank you for reading, and thank you for sticking with it. Really appreciate all your comments to bring us to this point Ah, that's M being M. In Book 1, around the time that they first met, she went through a spell of calling him all sorts names starting with Q, most of them less complementary than 'Quack'. Hmm. This is a good comment. I will see how this plays out with the others, but I sympathise with that you say. Ei is rather abandoned by the story. In this moment, I am not sure what to do about that. That's certainly me, borderline sappy I think that must be exactly what I was hoping for It's been a real pleasure. It's just so much better as a draft. Thank you again for your part in that!! I'll set it aside for a spell and write something different. I've got a couple of things on the slate (novelette length stories, one of them TBB) then I think I'll work on editing some shorts and subbing them out. Hoping to read more of your stuff some time. (No pressure.)

Hey, ID, many thanks for these comments. Yup. I've watered it down a bit, but will be closely reviewing the whole N thread all the way through in the next edit. Yeah. It's a bit 'red shirt', I accept that. I've gone back a lot of chapters to try and layer D in a bit more from the start, and I've given him another line or two in this chapter to try and build up his demise, but someone's gotta buy the farm in this chapter, and I need K for later (I think, unless...). Yup. I've got a big note to go back and work on all the blocking through this chapter. Check. Good catch. Yes on both counts. Hmm. Good point. Edited. Okay... Excellent. I worried it was heavy-handed, but it seems to be going down well. It's such a great piece. Thanks so much for reading, and for the comments.

WRS on my part then. It's a very, very passing reference. Low grade WRS at worst Okay, I've tagged it

Hi ID, many thanks for reading Yeah, that's a thread that will take a full edit the tidy up and resolve. I'm glad other elements are coming together. Ah, well... next chapter elucidates. Yup Check, and that is coming, run a manner of speaking. I'm glad that the personal resolutions are landing for you Thanks again for reading. Comments much appreciated!

Ha, well, it would not be me submitting if it wasn't late, right? In my defence, it is only 7 days after my last submission. So, here are the last two chapters of TCC. I'm ready. Let me have it! (p.s. The help y'all have given me with this over the last almost three years since the first submission first time around (June 2017) is incalculable. I cannot thank you enough, but I will do my best to show it, and tell it too.)

I've been through E's bits and revised where relevant. She reaches T in Chp 0C in fact, but I have used your guide to introduce much more intimacy in that contact after so long. There is much more description of what Q sees through the glass in terms of E reaching T, being reluctant to leave her because of her fragile condition. Thanks again for this

Hey, Kais. Many thanks for reading, and for your comments. Hmm. Right, I'll need to fix that. I certainly rely on your insight!! Argh, and to looking for the try-fail reaction certainly. Next chapter being rewritten, but has more answers certainly. KK, we'll see. Mm, hm. So right. Thank you very much for this! Err. Right. Well, there is a scene in the next chapter, but the mention in this one is scant to say the least. I accept that. It happens almost completely off screen, and I can understand your frustration at that. Let me think about it. Check. I'm more than happy to put more emotion into this chapter in a couple of key areas. Yes, thank you for this. Yeah, fair enough. Maybe it was her trying to go a bit softer on Q. Dunno. I've changed it 'c4ck'. Okay. I respect, and will go back and attempt to adhere to as much of this advice as possible within the framework of the situation. I don't want to break out of Q's POV, but that doesn't mean that I can't address most of this, to some degree. I'm very grateful for your advice here Excellent. some commentary above in response to Mandamon. Great comments. Many thanks indeed.

Hey SSmooth, thank you for reading. Excellent comments, very much appreciated I won't say much more, although I'm seriously considering writing in one last call, as emerged from Mandamon's comments. I think that would resonate really nicely with everything that went before. We'll see. I assume so to. Excellent. Thank you. This is good to know, as it's very much what I was going for. Yup: edit crash. Huh. It's M. I thought it was pretty clear, but may I need to tag it as KS also had this question. Someone "called it in", at some point. M did, in fact, in the previous chapter. Excellent! I thought it was very Q, and that he had not had a chance to be himself in some time. Awesome That's just fantastic. I can't think of a higher compliment Hopefully, you won't need to wait too long once I get onto that other project that's coming up next for me Excellent comments. Thank you so much, SSmooth

Hey, KS, I really appreciate you seeing this through considering how much of it you missed out on. Much appreciated Yeah, that's me. This went all wrong in the editing. Fixed now. Thanks. You, this broke too. Fixed now. That's cool. Yes, it was M. I wanted a new para for the dialogue, and thought I'd get away without a tag. I think you're right, and that readers from the start would pick her voice easily enough from the dialogue itself. Cool. Thanks Hmm. Okay. I'll think on it, see if anyone else picks it. Clearly it sounds normal enough to me, or I wouldn't have written it I meant it in that sense of puffing, in frustration or fatigue. Thanks. That's me not paying attention. It's a very Q line, but you would not get that at all, as he's very much out of his comfort zone in the last few chapters (okay most chapters) of the book. I hear you. I'm not completely wedded to this line, TBH. I'll see if it garners any other comments, but I may well change it. Thanks for flagging. I mean, I was going to awkwardness, but there is a difference between a character displaying awkwardness and the reader feeling it in the writing. Well spotted. This is the kind of detail that I love. You are absolutely right, of course. Thanks for calling it Such is the conundrum of the electric vehicle! IMO. Check. Thanks. The anonymous FBI person who is in the truck was tagged earlier in the story as the Special Agent in Charge. I think complete readers seem to be okay with this aspect, but I totally understand why you would ask this. Awesome, I really appreciate that. Thank you, and thanks so much for your comments. They really are appreciated