Aonar

Just playing devils advocate here, but if you wanted to, you could look at it as Preservation being unable to destroy Ruin, not because he had to preserve himself, but because he had to preserve Ruin.

@Power: Like I've said already, I'm fairly sure hemalurgy by its nature forces a change in the Spiritual Aspect. I'm not sure I agree with you about BioChroma though, I think we're thinking along similar lines, but I'm not sure I'd compare it to hemalurgy. Hemalurgy is much more blunt, and causes a lot of damage to the recipient's soul. That's why in my interpretation I used the term "stretching" rather than breaking, to try to differentiate between the two. A soul breaking isn't in itself painful, and more often than not it doesn't involve any sort of actual physical trauma (Snapping having occurred from intense joy and all that), but the easiest way to intentionally Snap someone is through extreme pain (a la the mists). We know for a fact that surgebinding requires a broken soul, and the quote from our mysterious narrator about "the nature of magic" makes it seem that broken souls are likely required in other systems as well. @Darnam/Shardbearer: It really depends on how much Raoden cared for his mother, and at what age he lost her. Without knowing any of that it's hard to say if his soul could considered broken. As things stand I still like my current theory better, since it's still hard to place soul-breaking incidents with the Elantrians we have met.

Aonar entered, but stopped back a short distance from the crowd. He didn't need to look at Modeft's body. He'd seen more than enough death before, and he could infer enough from the blood and the whispering crowd to know what had happened. An Inquisitor, hidden right under our noses... He didn't know how it was possible, yet the truth lay just a few metres away. If the Inquisitor knows about our crew, why didn't they kill us all? It seemed that the Inquisitor was fallible; whoever he or she was, they were letting their need to frighten the crew get in the way of practicality. Or was it only to let us think we actually have a chance? I have to say that I'm with the people who think we shouldn't kill anyone today, there's no point in killing anyone based on really unlikely guesses, especially when the death could let the Inquisitor create a new Spiked.

Aonar stood by the door outside the inn, watching the crew members flow into the building. It was a good thing the obligators no longer kept such a tight watch over the city streets; if they did, Modeft's newly gathered crew would have been discovered hours ago. Aonar wasn't sure why Modeft needed so many people, in his experience more people just meant more conflict among members and a higher chance that they would be betrayed. From the looks of things, the fighting had started already; two of the crewmembers had bloody hands and faces and they hadn't even been in the same room for more than a few hours. Whatever reason Modeft had to gather this many people together, this mysterious "job" was going to be big, bigger even than Modeft had originally described it. Knowing Modeft and his flair for the dramatic though, he was going to wait until absolutely everyone was gathered, and then probably wait just a little bit more before he let slip what exactly the job entailed. Wow, there's a lot of people this round. Almost triple what the first game had. With the number of people and the the gameplay changes, this is going to get real interesting real fast after the first night...

I think that we're focusing too much on the idea that Spiritual genes work in a way that's easily comparable to real genes. I see it more like this: their's a part of your Spiritweb that says that your parents were allomancers, so you can use allomancy. There's another that says you have X amount of Innate Investiture from Preservation. The first "gene" requires that your Innate Investiture exceeds a certain "threshold" to become active. If an allomancer has so much Innate Investiture, they can Snap and become a Misting. If they pass a certain threshold of Investiture, they can Snap and become a Mistborn. They don't necessarily have to have a separate part of the Spiritweb for each allomantic power. Hemalurgy can steal this part of the Spiritweb and some Innate Investiture. This way, you have enough Investiture to use the hemalurgic ability, and if you were a misting previously, you now have two powers. @The OP: I like the idea that Alloy era allomancers are weaker because of how Sazed changed Snapping, it fits nicely with my own theories about how Snapping works.

Pretty well, yeah. The original "crack" would allow the spren to form a bond, then each additional Ideal forces the crack wide enough to accept more Investiture. It was actually a discussion about how spren bonds form that lead to me trying to find and explain a corollary to Snapping (or the lack of one) in all the magic systems we've seen. Oh and by the way, the nice thing about the Cosmere Theories board is that you don't have to use spoiler tags for anything. I just wanted to make my theory look a little less intimidating.

@Delightful: I didn't even think of Dahkor, that's a good point about that. Although in Dilaf's case, his soul could have been already broken, as we know his wife being improperly healed by the Elantrians was very traumatic for him. @Darnam: Thanks. That's some really interesting speculation on Arelon's history, and it could well be the Shaod itself that Snaps Elantrians; we know that the Mists added Investiture to some lesser allomancers (I did lots of Snapping research ), but something I'm thinking is that the change involved with using AonDor might be very small, much like how Snapping is on post-Ascension Scadrial. The reason for this is because of Elantris's effects as an amplifier; without it Elantrians really have very little power. So their Spiritual Aspect doesn't need to change much to use their abilities, but once it has changed, the giant Aon Rao of Elantris boosts their power up to the level we see. With Breaths, I think that rather than Snapping, each additional Breath "stretches" their Spiritual Aspect slightly, and doesn't require Snapping like we see on Scadrial. This could also go a ways towards explaining the disorientation experienced when gaining many Breaths at once, since it forces a rapid expansion of their Spiritual Aspect. @Porridge: I actually agree with you about Hemalurgy, it manually cracks someone's soul, removing the need to Snap to use the granted abilities. Nalthians could definitely have naturally more malleable souls, this would help with the "stretching' idea above. I think I'm going to need to edit the OP, there's lots of stuff that I'd like to add now. Edit: The OP has been edited.

Some discussion on my other theory from a few days ago got me thinking about this. Specifically, what exactly constitutes a “broken soul” and what the importance of it is in using Investiture. Spoilered to save space. What We Know About Snapping and "Broken Souls" My Interpretation of Snapping: For those of you who don't feel like reading the block of text above, (I don't blame you, it ended up way bigger than I expected it to be) the gist of it is that I think Snapping is a fundamental change of one's Spiritual Aspect, which allows them to use a Shard's Investiture. (Please excuse me if any of this doesn't make sense, I started thinking about this kind of late at night, and I wanted to post it before I forgot any bits of it.) Edit: I added some new speculation from the posts below.

Aonar, the crew's self proclaimed expert at "covert entry." An ex hazekiller who was thrown out and nearly executed prior to the skaa rebellion for stealing from his employers, he now uses his talents to break into noble's keeps, and help get the crew past allomancer guards. The changes to the game mechanics look really neat. This is going to be fun.

@a smart guy: Ask and ye shall receive: (source) (source) (source) Edit: Quote troubles. To be a bit more on topic, I think Sel would most likely be the Expanse of Broken Sky because of how Devotion and Dominion's currently mindless powers must have affected shadesmar there. (from what people are saying, I'm wishing that I had some way to get my hands of White Sand so I could know for sure.) Nalthis makes the most sense as the Expanse of Vibrance, but I have no idea on the other two.

He's never died in the first place. It specifically mentions that his Blade stayed behind after he collapsed, and we know from the prologue that Honourblades disappear when their wielder dies. Edit: I really need to learn to type faster. Edit #2 Can they? I always assumed that their immortality revolved around whatever powers Honor gave them, not their role in the Oathpact.

Same thing with me and Pictionary. e.g., when the thing you're supposed to draw is "lurch," and your first instinct is to draw the allomantic symbol for iron...

Yeeeesssss... but although the magic would be similar, it wouldn't be gained through a spren bond, and so most likely wouldn't be paired with the ability to soulcast. @Darnam: It does say that you don't have to put spoiler tags in this forum, but these aren't really bad spoilers anyway, all we actually say is that Hoid learns to lightweave on Yolen.

We know that Hoid's lightweaving and and Shallan's (eventual) lightweaving are not exactly the same thing, but since the do similar things, they work in similar ways.

Not necessarily. We know that Hoid is not from Roshar, (he's from Yolen) and we know that he learned how to Lightweave while he was still on Yolen. (Check out the Liar sample chapters if you want to know how we know.) He still might be able to Soulcast, but even if he can it probably isn't directly related to his ability to Lightweave.

@Terra: Thanks for saving me from having to find all that. @Macen: Don't worry about it, it didn't come off that way to me. Anyway, discussion (even discussion that makes you rethink some bits of your theory) is always fun.

Yeah, I was feeling a lot more confident about my theory before I read the WoR excerpts. Now lots of the actions that the Cryptics took seem strange though. If Pattern had been observing her and planning on bonding with her for that long, then what was the point of that whole fiasco in Way of Kings? Why so many Cryptics? Why choose that moment to try to accelerate the bonding process? Notice this though: This suggests that the Cryptics have been observing and guiding Shallan ever since they realized that she had the potential to be a Lightweaver. In which case Pattern may have been part of said group that was observing Shallan, and this just happened to be one of his first memories to resurface. (I'm stretching a bit here) On another note, going by some of the comments that Syl made, it seems as if in most cases spren cross into the Physical Realm after finding a person to bond to, but has to be in the Physical to actually bond. This sort of supports my first few steps, but the text is a little ambiguous. I'm not sure if the new info hurt or helped my idea honestly. @gpmushu: I'm annoyed that I managed to miss that on my first read-through, as that definitely helps my theory, since it suggests that her first soulcasting occurred before she bonded to Pattern.

The only real basis for that is a few quotes from the Shallan Chapters where she goes to Shadesmar. Primarily, from page 799 and page 1212 In the first quote it is clear that Shallan has attracted multiple Cryptics, and the next quote implies that she is only now bonding to one particular spren. I don't think seeing the Cryptics she had attracted to herself necessarily meant Shallan had any sort of actual bond at that point, since every bond that we've seen has been between one person and one spren. I have basically nothing on Kaladin, I'm just extrapolating and assuming that the bond follows the same basic pattern for each order. Edit: I might have to scrap some of this, seeing how Syl came to the Physical Realm before choosing someone to bond to.

YES!!!!!!! Here's hoping for more Realmatics-heavy Shallan Chapters. Now to wait anxiously until they're out...

@vikorr: Thanks for the quotes, I was going to look them up myself if you didn't. Its clear that Kaladin had attracted an Honourspren at that point, but like I said, I don't think he had necessarily bonded to Syl yet. Shallan, in chapter 45 went to Shadesmar before she had bonded to any one Cryptic, and Kaladin was likely also instinctively holding Stormlight before he had bonded to Syl. While its very possible that the bond works differently for different orders, from what we've seen it seems as if its possible to do some very limited surgebinding before bonding to a specific spren. However, there isn't really anything to say whether or not Kaladin rejecting the shards was actually what initiated their bond, so he may have bonded to her earlier. As for Syl remembering what attracted her to Kaladin, I'm assuming that this would have happened before she was fully part of the Physical Realm, in which case she would have been perfectly able to form memories, and is now regaining those memories as she spends more time with Kaladin. @All: I've edited the OP with peoples suggestions.

That's an good point on how it might not have been Kaladin's direct actions that attracted Syl, but I do think that it was him giving up the shards that solidified his bond. In Shallan's case she attracted numerous Cryptics, but she didn't bond to any one of them until after she told them her greatest secret, that she had killed her father. Likewise, Kaladin by some means attracted Syl, and potentially other Honourspren as well, but I don't think he actually bonded to her until he gave up his shards. Edit: @bartbug: You sound exited. It must be a pretty good theory!

This isn't exactly a theory per say, but over the last few days I've been mulling over how Nahel Bonds develop, and compiled what we know about it in this list. I've tried to provide examples from the books for everything, but some stuff is a little iffy. Stages in the Nahel Bond: 0.5. Person goes through a traumatic (soul-breaking) experience that allows them to form a nahel bond. (Kaladin losing Tien, Shallan killing her father.) 1. Something about a person's cognitive aspect attracts a spren that is capable of bonding to them. a. At this stage, some very limited surgebinding ability develops. (Shallan’s first journey to Shadesmar.) 2. Inciting incident that solidifies the bond. (Kaladin rejecting the Shardblade (Maybe), Shallan admitting that she killed her father.) a. Spren begins to assume a Physical form. (Shallan begins seeing her Cryptic soon after this.) 3. Continued behaviour in line with what originally attracted the spren. a. Spren gains more control over its form, and starts to become more cognizant. (Syl making herself known to Kaladin.) Surgebinder slowly gains some increased skill and manipulating their Surges and utilizing Stormlight. (Kaladin begins to instinctively discover new abilities.) 4. Internalization/Vocalization of the Ideals a. Each one grants some sort of boost to the Surgebinder’s powers; greater Stormlight retention, more control over surges, perhaps even giving them access to Shardplate/blade. (Kaladin post Battle of the Tower) 5. Full Knight Radiant, fully bonded to their spren, having spoken all the Ideals for their order. Going by this, Elhokar (and maybe Dalinar) would be at one, Shallan at two, Ym at three, Jasnah would be four (maybe three, we don't know for sure if she's spoken any Ideals), Lift at four, and Kaladin would also be at four. Anything I missed? Anything I have completely wrong? Any crazy theories people want to make? EDIT: Ouch, just fixed the typo in the title now. That's embarrassing. EDIT #2: Made some changes based on the suggestions below.