Kandrafish

Yeah, I guess we can hope that she knows most of it. I also hope that Vasher just does not die. He doesn't need to give away his breath.

I feel like Vaher would be super paranoid that Navani would let the information get into the wrong hands, eventually... Like over the course of hundreds of years. Wouldn't you be paranoid about that stuff if you've lived for hundreds of years and watched as power dynamics change based on knowledge of things like Ichor alcohol. I am hoping that he teaches people too. I am dreading him using his Divine Breath... But in the back of my head, I cannot help but think that could be one way to fix Ishar. Then, I cringe at the centuries worth of knowledge that would be lost!

Perhaps I am splitting hairs here, but Odium certainly can change, but I think he is more of a change tangential shard. Odium is not about physical change. It is not about physically making things better. In a way, it is more powerful, it is about emotional change. Strong, burning, motivational, emotions are not the same as physical change. Here is a part model for the 4 essential physical change shards. Because they represent physical actions, they are always all in the outer circle of my allomancy tables. The emotional shards take the inner circle. I am working on this model on the premise that Frustration is correct in the belief that Vin controlling Preservation could have, theoretically, just as easily have destroyed Cultivation as she did Ruin. (Shortened to "Frustration's Cult-Ruin Postulate" in the doc title) I hope to have 4 sets of 4 shards like this built from this starting point. The other parts of the model are not finished, yet.

I like this idea, but I cannot think of any significant, non-circumstantial piece evidence to support it. This is true. The primary problem is that humans are polluting water sources, so the analogy would require some reason why humans (which spren prefer to bond over singers like one might prefer meat over broth) are less friendly to the cognitive environment... (again, it would make sense but close to no evidence that I can find). I think ConfusedCow was referring to our depletion of fresh water, which is a problem, but a smaller one, when one considers that we can desalinate water. But this costs energy which uses fossil fuels and so on... I always thought that spren and investiture were part of the natural system... Although I applaud ConfusedCow's unique theory, I would be pleased if it were false. I would both laugh and be incredibly sad if there was some sort of climate change/ pollution analogous investiture crisis. As a side note: When has something like a freshwater depletion crisis or climate change or anything ever had a massive response where everyone agrees. The Recreance certainly implies people taking more immediate action that the world has ever taken towards environmental issues.

This is correct. The guy on the boat with the instrument is Hoid (I think everyone agrees about this). He is the same one as in the other pictures and has the same instrument. (Sorry if I misinterpreted the question. Also, sorry for bringing up this thread again.)

Ok... So it was not an oath per se. I think it was more than an idea, though. It sounded like an agreement or maybe a pact and it is what Odium is using to justify his attacks on other shards. So, you don't think that breaking an agreement with others is against the intent of Honor? That is all that I am trying to say.

Yeah, I thought about that... Based on investiture repelling investiture? There is the other possibility that the soulstamp might draw investiture, which would just break the purpose of making it perfect.

Another solution: Just synthesize only perfect crystal structure gemstones. OR You could genetically modify chull so that they only produce perfect gemhearts. Better solution: Step 1: Ship the gemstones to Sel. Step 2: Use Forgery to make the gemstones into perfect gemstones. Step 3: Ship the gemstones back to Roshar. Optional Step 4: Realize that Sel's cognitive realm is a death trap and that there are no space crafts yet and abort the mission.

I am on team Thaidakar! It was justified. Tanavast killed his pet dog, which was the last thing he had to remember his dead wife by! And he stole his car and beat him up. I thought it was odd that Brandon described Thaidakar as looking like a paler version of (John Wick Spoiler)

I just thought of this now because of what you said: They do call her "the Heir of the Survivor"! And the Survivor is Preservation before her! (I know the timeline doesn't line up, but it is kind of funny... A whole cult referred to her as the Heir of the previous holder of Preservation!) On a more serious note, I certainly don't know if Child of Tanavast means that. It does mean something, though. In the same way Child of the Plains means that Venli was raised on the Shattered Plains and Child of Odium references Dalinar's connection to Odium, specifically the Thrill. Child of Odium could also refer to the fact that Venli held Ulim in her gemheart (I think) and served Odium as a stormform regal.

He is still bound to the Rosharan System... But, free on Roshar if a Desolation is going on, as far as I understand. Highstorms are mathematically predictable. Theoretically, they are bound by some rules... And Honor, as he got weaker, would have less ability to defy his intent and would struggle to break the standard pattern that the Highstorm obeys. I'll risk repeating somethings that I have said before and suggest that perhaps Odium was desperately trying to Shatter Honor because the growth of the Knights Radiant would have made controlling a Highstorm overpowered. I have, in my mind, the idea that before Honor was shattered, it was 2 gods versus 1, so, sure Odium is dangerous, but he still needs to be fighting tooth and nail before Honor and Cultivation get their bearings and properly defeat him in this 2 vs 1 duel. This is certainly true. I think Rayse talks about how he could now ride his own storm, like Tanavast used, to during Oathbringer. But, even Odium cannot make his storm go backwards and he is less inclined to being bound than Honor would be, based on intent.

The issue is that the Stormfather calls Kaladin "Child of Tanavast" and he only calls Kaladin this. There should be a meaning for this. So, based on your same logic, Kaladin is a "Child of Tanavast" in the same way that Venli is a "Child of the Plains" I think one of the common theories is that Kaladin is the heir of Tanavast (Mistborn Era 1 spoiler) The theory here that Kaladin would be Tanavast's Son in Law because Syl is the only spren created by Tanavast has been refuted because Tanavast didn't create her. The Stormfather did. This lends itself to the idea that Kaladin is Tanavast's heir. Whether this was chosen by his "Wife?", Cultivation's shard, or not remains to be seen. 1 The theory of Kaladin being granted this title because of Syl could be rebuffed if he is called the "Child of Tanavast" when the bond is broken. Then we know that the term relates to Kaladin's destiny. 2 On the other hand, Syl was found by the Stormfather after a 1000 year disappearance after her first Radiant died. There is the possibility that she could have endured or encountered someone or thing that altered her and made her connected to Tanavast and therefore Kaladin as would be connected as well. Perhaps her Radiant died and she witnessed Tan Avast and Koravellium Avast's last moments together, or something (I'm just spit balling). Anyway, we can get a better idea when I get a hold of my Words of Radiance in a few weeks and check if Kaladin is the Child of Tanavast while Syl is "Dead".

I think this is done. It is still open to suggestions and revisions, though. Here is my best model on Dawnshards, so far... "I am FREE" - Ruin 'She only cares about change' (paraphrased) -Rayse referring to Cultivation "The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change." -Rysn (CHANGE?) "I am UNITY" - Dalinar holding part of Honor I expect BELIEF on Threnody. It fits thematically, I think.

Darn... Zahel probably knows what it means... Both parts.

Yeah. I have been fiddling around with it a decent amount, but the foundation was: Autonomy is opposite to Dominion Odium is opposite to Devotion And the Preservation Ruin pairing was also instrumental... Unfortunately, that was one of my reasons for this. IF Preservation and Ruin are opposites that cancel, then I can create a chart which will let me guess that we are missing a shard that is the push to Valor and related to Autonomy but opposed in most circumstances. So... Valiant effort is opposite of Cowardice but also Valiant efforts are not Wise... Fighting for independence also is not Wise and separating on your own in an Autonomous way is also quite NotBrave or Valiant --> Ergo Prudence, which seems exactly what the actions of the "survival shard" match. I hoped to do the same for finding the last shard, but I am still not sure about some of the matches... So, Vanquish is more of a placeholder. I working on another model based on allomancy. I struggle with all the shards that we haven't been exposed to yet (even indirectly, like how we have seen Taldain). Mercy, Whimsy and Invention are very difficult. The other issue is that Ambition and Honor don't fit quite right wherever I put them... And the I feel bad about putting any shard on aluminum too. Yes, that is the idea... Dominion is the Push to Autonomy's Pull That is how I see it... Odium is about giving into darker passions for the thrill of defeating an enemy, the trance of pure indulgence, and so on. Devotion is about devoting yourself to what you love, whether it is painting or politics

This is the problem... I like the idea that there is a reason to break the bond with the Sibling... Oh... Maybe you are right and the Sibling suggested that they not be bonded because it would be dangerous! Right! Since the Stormfather whines a whole bunch when Odium is trying to get Dalinar to embrace being His champion. I forgot that the Sibling is a sentient being. Thinking about it, it would make sense if they both thought "we don't know how dangerous this could be... What if Odium is actually there with Ba Ado Mishram? And what if he tries to unmake the Sibling? Theoretically, a Bondsmith is more expendable than the one and only Sibling! But then screwing with Ba Ado Mishram ends up messing the Sibling up anyway. Sorry... Maybe I should have put my comment here... I am liking the first part of this theory more and more. Yeah, this makes sense... Like what they said in the Vyre shardcast. Rayse did not like that El was recruiting humans (without him? because Rayse does want humans in his army, eventually. He said as much to Dalinar.) Perhaps El was taking some step too far that was leading them on bad potential futures... Ok, so what if it was a punishment... El is involved with the Ba Ado Mishram disaster and his title/ name is stripped from him... He decides "I am going to pick a new name" and chooses one that is very close to divinity like Jezerezeh'Elin, Talenelat'Elin and so on... You know that would show people not to mess with me... if Elin means herald (I don't know) then El is saying he is part herald or akin to the heralds... El is the generic word for god or diety in Hebrew... I don't know if that helps or confuses things.

There is some sort of rare spren that a Singer can bond that will give them hollow bones and wings. So, there have been Pterodactyl Singers during some of the desolations.

Yeah, that was my same thought! When I read the first Mistborn Trilogy I thought "If I were a Kandra, I would just eat a shark and swim off into the ocean, or even just hide in a lake for a while." (The Lord Ruler got rid of all of the Feruchemists who could breath under water)

There is not a bond. People with sand magic are not invested. They have the ability to use the investiture of the sand. Initiation for Autonomy-- I think that people's ability to use sand magic stems from how independent they are. Kenton is not any good without someone to fight against --> weak powers. Baon is completely independent and always obeys his commitments, but doesn't like to need anything (sun glasses) --> Very powerful. Kenton's dad doesn't need to interact with his family --> Very powerful. Drile is completely independent --> Strong powers. Dirin needed Kenton as an example to hang around --> weak powers. Kriss has servants and professors with her and all working for her and supporting her --> No power. This doesn't fully explain the training to get stronger part, but I like it because I haven't found a counterpoint, yet. I think that this seems to be mutualism for sand and parasites. But, this is based on the feeling that the use of the micro-organism's investiture could be beneficial to the micro-organisms somehow (faster reproduction?/ spreading). I am inclined to think that plants and animals use the micro-organism's investiture in less dramatic ways, as well. It does seem pretty ironic. But, I am inclined to think that Autonomy's magic has a whole bunch of moving pieces that all choose to work together for their own benefit, theoretically, but could function without. Thousands of separate pieces of sand and many very small parasites each give a little bit of power to individuals based on who they are. In the case of the aviar to human bond... Maybe something else is getting mixed with Autonomy, or maybe it is the idea that the aviar chooses what the human can see (independently) this allows the aviar to be fed and survive. The humans keep the aviars for survival as well. This seems like it could be Autonomy mixed with Wisdom/ Survival/ Prudence.

I really like this theory. I think a bond would explain how Ba Ado Mishram's power increased enough to make forms of power. We see how that happened with the Stormfather and Dalinar. I am a little skeptical, though. I have a few questions. 1 How does the "he who quiets" fit in? "I had my title and my rhythms stripped from me for daring insist they should not be killed, but should instead be reconditioned. Repurposed" -Musings of El (talking about humans). This is all that he says about himself. I felt like he needed to be referring to a servant of Odium stripping his Rhythms from him. Because it feels like he is complaining about his old boss (Rayse). But... Are you implying that he tried to use Ba Ado Mishram to enlist humans and give them forms of power and this decision is what made him lose his Rhythms? This is, perhaps, my own idea, but it is the only way I can think of to bridge your theory to the quote. If you have another explanation, I would love to hear it. 2 If he lost his Rhythms with Ba Ado Mishram, why did he lose his title as well? He is a fused scholar of the human arts and he is obsessed with humans, so it would make a little bit of sense that he would experiment with Bondsmith-like bonds? "They should not be discarded, but helped to their potential. Their final Passions." -Musings of El WoB below Is El a new title? This lends itself to your theory, I suppose. El ceased to be Vyre and became El because of the Nahel analogous bond and then he lost his Rhythms... It was all because he wanted to use BAM to band all the listeners and humans together into an army? I want this theory to click, but I feel like I am missing a piece...

Harmony didn't know a ton of true freedom either and perhaps he thinks of his own responsibilities and figures that the kandra probably appreciate having purpose by serving a God/ Shard. I would like to think that Sazed's choice comes out him thinking he is being pretty gracious and him wanting to preserve some of the life forms and information from the old world but also let it be harmonious with his new creation. To summarize... 1 So he probably did give his bones to a mistwraith and find some way to make it lifeless-like. Then he uses identity or connection and healing (maybe) to reattach himself... And if he did use Oreseur there would be more connection to begin with, which would make it easier. 2 He could have used breath to make himself into a lifeless and tap his way back into existence (the problem is how he gets access to other magics in time to save Southern Scadrial) 3 (this might be a bit out there) Could he have gotten a kandra to create a body and then chop off a limb then create more of their body by eating more flesh and continue chopping off bits to create a flesh golem that they could animate with feruchemy or breath and heal back into himself?

Ok, I can kind of see that. What do you think of Dominion and Autonomy pairing? And Odium and Devotion pairing?

I guess we have our question then... Who do you think is the push pull opposite of Preservation than? Some 0- to match Preservation's 0+

Good point. I still think having young and inexperienced Radiants makes it more likely that there will be tactical mistakes on the human side.

There are only 10 Heralds and a small number of Sleepless. Spren forget lots of stuff when they bond and I don't know if very many of them study regular human tactics (too chaotic for cryptics and too big picture for honorspren... Maybe inkspren? peakspren? or ashspren?, but they still might not remember very clearly and their minds work different, so there is the issue of translation) The forces of Odium have a significantly larger number of tacticians. Its like playing Risk/ Axis and Allies against 3 of your friends. One of them will be able to figure out the best move most of the time and one of them will stop the others from falling into a trap more often than you. Certainly the Heralds could say "a good strategy is to stab the fused in the gemheart if they open themselves up like x", but in the particular situation, the fused could be baiting them. It would be the exact same with larger tactics. And, without spanreeds, the Heralds that know about tactics cannot be everywhere, but the sane fused that know about tactics can be much more spread out on a battlefield. "Practice makes perfect..." is a frightening thing to think about when fighting the fused. Sorry, I had this written up in a tab and I thought I already sent it... Someone else already made a similar point... While I am at it, I will add that I also agree that with Nameless: We can all agree that Radiants of higher oaths will win the vast majority of the time in a fight, but sometimes they lose and the fused don't ever die, so they keep coming back and the new Radiants will be lower in their oaths... Ultimately, the factors cancelling out to make if a fair-ish fight is something we need to assume because of the devastation present... I would prefer to speculate on what those factors are.