ILIYA

Haha not sure what's going on haha, I'll try to reply regarding this though. As I said I don't have much faith in theory but rather my issue is with the huge power gap that is present based on what we know. Kaladin compares to Leshwi in using the surge of gravitation for fighting, not combat, thing is if you have shard-plate and blade it doesn't matter if you are far less skilled than Leshwi in combat, She has to land multiple hits on you, mostly in the same area just to break your plate then finally start to deplete stormlight. Meanwhile you just need one hit, doesn't even have to be with your blade as a plate-enchanced strike is more than enough and considering that Fused's voidhealing is pathethic compared to stormlight she is pretty much dead from a single punch. Any windrunner of the 4th ideal has a huge advantage over the strongest heavenly one. Wait how do we know the Fused and singers greatly outnumbered humanity in the past? possible at the start of the war but close to end as well?? Also shardbearers can't hold ground but surge-binders can destroy an entire nations leadership. We saw Szeth with a sinlge honor-blade throw entire nations into chaos. Despite them having shards and advanced fabrials they possessed little threat to Szeth. It doesn't matter if your army is stronger if the enemy agents can just fly into your leaders palace and massacre everyone there and walk out. A nation or an army is nothing without leadership. Now imagine how destructive a skybreaker of the 5th ideal can be compared to Szeth with an honor-blade. We saw Nale deal with dalinar's squad like a soldier toying with children. But from what we know so far all the fused at least the strongest ones have been transferred and there is no reason for any to stay behind in Braize now that Odium has his new storm. The only ones in Braize are the banned ones like El. Odium did go all out in RoW as we know his plans heavily dependend on getting Kalain and the tower. As for regals the humans also have radiant squires to deal with them. I know the popular theory now is that the Fused have a weapon to counter plate but just have not decided to use it as they wanted to save it for when it matters. This doesn't make much sense as it would assume that theoretical weapon is somehow can only be used to counter plate but a weapon of that caliber should be effective against non-plate radiance as well. Aluminum might remove investiture effects but plate without investiture is still metal that can't be easily broken. Another reason this doesn't make sense is that humans already have access to hundreds of dead spren plate that are being used against the Fused. The first thing fused did after awaking was go after these plates which wouldn't make sense if they could just easily counter it. Also wouldn't make sense to not deploy such theoretical weapons in Oathbringer and RoW considering how important victories then were to Odium and the fact that time is against Fused. As for humanity "winning against the Fused" in the past, I wouldn't call not getting wiped out a victory. Each desolation they lost many and regressed technologically. The oath-pact was broken cause Heralds knew they will lose eventually.

I mean certainly possible that there should be weapons for it, I'm just confused why we haven't seen them yet. Why hold back on such valuable weapons in ROW?

Is that true, I thought he can't hurt normal physical people in the cognitive ability. Just that he can hurt cognitive shadows because they are not technically alive? Also about the post, I agree I think the hurting comes to intent so he can't use his lightweaving powers to intentionally cause physical harm to someone. Doesn't matter how an outsider might see, it's just Hoid's intention that matters.

My problem though isn't that the radiance are stronger than the fused, it's that they are lot lot stronger than fused. That's why I fail to see how the ancient radiance who had plenty in 4th and 5th ideal along with other advantages couldn't easily wipe out the fused with no casualties during desolations. As for Parshendi they could also easily contain them in a secure area of Roshar without needing to kill or harm them. The fact that fused can't be killed is not a problem if they are like flees compared to you, just kill them easily each desolation and relax, as for singers just make a wall and give them areas of land. I'm sure my theory is not a strong one but my real problem is the question of why the Fused were giving ancient radiance and heralds so much trouble? Yea I don't have much faith in the theory, it's just I can't find any answers on why the fused who are so much weaker than radiance in RoW were giving ancient radiance so much trouble, even winning in desolations... I thought the Fused were sleep in the 4500 years rather than sitting around. Still though my problem isn't that the Fused for example the persuer lacked the skills to fight the radiance. Even in perfect condition and mastery of his skills I fail to see how he could fight even a novice radiant of the 4th ideal with plate. He simply doesn't have the power to do so, it's like a twinborn fighting a mistborn or a guy with a sword fighting someone with an AK-47. It's simply a power outmatch regardless of skills. As for power though it only seems to be Dalinar that has become more powerful than ancient radiance, the rest of similar abilities e.g Kaladin doesn't seem to be able to do anything that the ancient radiance windrunners couldn't? Still they had storms and access to perfect gemstones, I feel like if lack of stormlight was a such a huge issue it would have been mentioned explicitly in radiant records or the visions. We need consider void-light was probably also less accessbile since Odium didn't have his own storm then. You mean the thunderclast right? Yea there seem to be few of them but even in mass they shouldn't posses real threats to radiance of 4th ideal as we saw them in Oathbringer. The Radiance with forces of gravitation and Abrasion should be able to cut through them with ease as the thunderclasts won't have any real support in battles. Not to mention the radiance should have aerial supremacy all the time since I fail to see how heavily ones could do anything against plate. Thanks everyone for the feedback and points. On a second note though another theory could be that the entire team it really is But they also didn't have raw power either though? That's my main issue, once a radiant reaches 4th ideal and gains plate they totally outclass every fused, especially the radiance of the combat orders. I really fail to see how the pursuer or Leshwi could fight any windrunner of the 4th ideal even if he was in perfect conditions, his powers are simply outmatched. Like he was struggling to even kill Kaladin with limited powers... I think a good depiction of raw power gone mad are the heralds, you can clearly see Ishar and Nale totally overpowering the radiance. They showed the real strength of the past radiance. This brings me to the point, if Nale for example wasn't mad and decided he was gonna go the nine's cave and wipe out the entire Fused's leadership, I don't see anything on Fused's side that could stop him. That's why I'm confused how the Fused were a threat to radiance in the past. The reason I said why Fused's power could be related was because of the push-pull effect of shards we saw in secret history and end of mistborn first era, The more honor and cultivation allowed radiance to use their investiture the more options it gave Odium to let his Fused use more his investiture. As for first I really don't think the support from non-radiance is significant at all. As mentioned in the thread my reasonings, for example we saw Szeth with a single honorblade literally bring Roshar to its knees and that's with humans having access to shards and half-shards. Imagine what a single skybreaker of the 4th ideal could do against Parshendi... second: Agreed on this one. As I mentioned unmade and thunderclasts are the only possible real threats but imagining them against a group of radiance of 4th ideal they would lose easily as both unmade and thunderclasts are vulnerable and need protection to be effective which the fused can not provide due to being severely outscale by high-level radiance. The thunderclasts will just get crushed from the sky or by stonewards or edgedancers/dustbringers from the ground while the unmade are vulnerable since no one can protect their hearts from being accessed and entrapped in gemstones. As for Third, it's the same with radiant squires who are inexperienced, worse even since their radiants don't know how their power works really either so can't teach them whereas fused are experienced. Not to mention Odium has access to skybreakers dustbringers and nations of jah keved and iri so humans are on their side as well in plenty of numbers. As for fourth I agree they are mad and make stupid decisions but that's the problem with them. They are also very weak in power relatviley. Ishar and Nale are far worse in madness than Fused yet they are both extremely deadly and had it not been for Nightblood and Dalinar's new found powers they would single-handly destroyed the radiance leadership. Madness is not a reason for the lack of power of fighting skills as shown by Heralds but lack of decision making. Also not to mention the Fused were probably as mad near the end of war as they are now. Remember it's the cycle of fighting, death and rebirth that caused them to go insane. Not that they were sleep in Braize during the resting period between desolations. Thanks, everyone for your replies and feedback, really appreciate it.

Long post, TLDR on the bottom. I've been thinking about Fused's combat wars and I was surprised when they were struggling to win against the new radiance who are currently much weaker than old radiance. I realized while their surge binding powers are kinda even. E.g Windrunners have faster acceleration and another surge but Fused have better maneuverability and more experience. The power gap becomes huge once you factor in Shard-blade and Shard plate, I do not see how the Fused could even hurt the radiance of the 4th ideal let alone fight them. I do not see how the pursuer used to fight the strongest of the enemy, any radiance of the 4th ideal with plate could easily crush him let alone the strongest. So first I will list all the advantages and disadvantages of both old and new radiance compared to each other then come up with possible theories why there is such a huge power gap. Main Advantages for new radiance have in the new war: 1- Odium's vessel (Rayse) is a lot weaker than before which made him a terrible commander compared to the past so he mispositioned his forces 2- Fused are a bit less in number and more insane now than start of the war in roshar though they are now more experienced. 3- The fused mention radiance have learned a few innovative tricks now since they weren't indoctrinated into Urithiru ranks from the start. Still, I don't see how innovative tricks on WW2 fighter planes could be a huge problem for you if you are used to fighting F-35s... 4- There is modern fabrial technology and military tactics now which should favor radiance slightly though Szeth showed compared to even the most basic surge binding, both new tech and old shard plate and blades are meaningless. The side with superior surge binders can easily assassinate the enemy's leadership and win the war. 5- The interference from cosmere groups like ghostbloods, 17th shard, Vasher etc could have benefited radiance more. Main disadvantages for new radiance have in the new war: 1- Honor's vessel is fully dead and heralds are mad or straight-up traitors which is a far worse than the case on Odium's side since 5 of the unmade are fully functional, unlike the heralds. 2- The radiance are missing 3 orders with Skybreakers and dustbringers straight up joining the enemy. 3- No training or passing on of the most effective tactics and knowledge from the old radiance to the new 4- No radiance (just one) of 4th and 5th ideals which is a huge deal compared to 200-300 from before. 5- Fused seem to have access to new fabrials that shutdown radiant powers 6- Odium has his own Storm now which according to fused and Heralds is a huge deal. Makes sense since a few days is now all it takes for Fused to be reborn. As you can see the disadvantages seem to be far bigger than the advantages of the new radiance so the question is how could the Fused cause so much trouble during past desolations and even kill heralds in combat during them. We saw how strong Ishar and Nale were in combat, meanwhile, we saw how pathetic the pursuer was. How were these guys even? Through the pursuer is quite mad compared to before but as Ishar and Nale showed us madness hinders decision making mostly not their innate power which was the pursuer lacked. His innate power was why he couldn't kill kaladin though in the end, it was his madness that got him killed. Just imagine if Kaladin has shardplate in most of his fights in ROW, Leshwi would needs to land hundreds of blows on him while Kaladin just needs to strike her once or twice. Kaladin could overpower the pursuer grips easily then and the pursuer would need several strikes which is unlikely. Overall there are few things on Odium's side that can challenge a radiant of the 4th ideal: - Thunderclasts could pose a serious threat to the radiance, though they make easy targets for dustbringers and skybreakers. - The unmade Yelig-nar. The combat one Yelig-nar seems to give a strong enough carapace to deflect non shard-plate enhanced strikes from shard-blades and act as good as shard-plate in general though Yelig-nar has no substitution for shard-blade. Overall an experienced yelignar could take on few radiance of 4th ideal though I don't know if Yelignar will let a user control it long enough to become experienced in combat. - The rest of the unmade. While they won't be a threat in combat they could cause chaos through their psychological attacks through I think radiance of 4th ideal are invested enough to mostly resist them. Still massive spren like the unmade and the sibling seem to need combat protection as experinced surge binders can break them when they get to their core as we saw with Dalinar, Shallan and raboniel That's it unless the radiant of the 4th ideal is absolutely clueless or is severely lacking stormlight they could theoretically beat anything else on Odium's forces with ease due to the advantages that plate offers. Theories that could explain why the past fights were even despite the Fused seeming much weaker than old radiance. 1- Old radiance had lower access to stormlight compared to the enemy's access to void-light. This doesn't make much sense as they didn't have access their own storm. This could mean Fused would only attack at the end of the weeping though there is no proof for it and it's unlikely the old radiance had no way of not being out of stormlight during the weeping. 2- Most of the powerful fused are still sleeping, This one is unlikely as well as from the Fused accounts we know most of their superiors and best are already awake and active such as the nine and the pursuer etc. Only ones that seem to be away the ones that were never meant to be awaken such as Raboniel formerly and El currently. 3- This is the most likely one and that's that Fused's powers scale with the radiance as in once the radiance advance in their ideals. For example, once there will be more radiance of higher ideals, the more powerful the fused become! This potentially explains a lot of things as well. - It explains why in the past the fused wouldn't just get a huge lead once they'd kill high-level radiance as they couldn't simply overpower radiance of lower ideals with investiture - It explains why they seem to be on the same level of current radiance in power - It explains why their top leaders especially the ones that were first summoned by Venli in Oathbringer haven't been active much at all as they may be used to higher levels of power in fighting and are waiting for radiance to advance their ideals first before they get involved. - It explains why the most powerful active Fused in words of radiance being Roboniel and Lezian were using the surges of transformation and transportation both being Jasnah's else-caller surges as she has advanced into the 4th ideal. - It explains why Leshwi also mentions to Venli with certainty that she would know if Stormblessed has spoken the 4th ideal. - Could explain part of recreance as the radiance may have realized the further they advance in their ideals and more is added to their numbers the stronger the fused also become with their surges which results in possible destruction of Roshar. - Could explain why the 9 were worried as should the new radiance not have advanced in their ideals and instead have advanced technologically faster it would result in Odium's forces losing their advantage as the fused would have to fight with the weaker versions of their surges and forms which they would be less experienced with it as they had fought with stronger surges and forms. Meanwhile, this would allow technological warfare, especially regarding fabrials to catch and even be superior to surge-binding. - Could explain why in a lot of situations the Fused are lenient about not killing the radiance as they might want them to advance their ideals. Or it could be just Brandon not having that much attention to power discrepancies as they aren't a huge part of the story but I find it odd if that's the case. He goes as far as giving asymmetrical powers to the heavenly ones and Windrunners (heavenly ones being more maneuverable while the windrunners accelerate faster). Meanwhile, the fused have to counter against shard-blade and shard-plate? It seems odd to me. TLDR: There is a huge gap as the radiance seem a lot more powerful than fused when reaching 4th and 5th ideal. It doesn't make sense why the fused that fought the old radiance who were in a far better position and of higher ideals are struggling to easily wipe out the new radiance. My most plausible theory is that Fused's power scales with radiant ideals. Let me know what you think on this as I'm quite interested for answers.

I don't think Graphic Audio or Audible offered them all as one, instead each short story came with a package like Edgedancer was part of SA series purchase and Secret History part of Mistborn with Emperor's soul and hope of Elantris part of Elantris. I actually had to purchase the anthology series on Audible and GA for 6th of the dusk and Shadows of Silence.

Hello All I Recently finished 6th of the dusk which was the last on my list for published cosmere books. I listened to Sando's works mostly with Graphic Audio but generally looked up maps on the net to make sure I'm not missing anything. Finally planned to do more than cremposting and actually try to learn more about cosmere magic systems and conspiracy theories so that's why I'm here. I made a thread here some time ago asking a question but haven't followed up just yet. Here some random cosmere info I think is correct about me: Favorite series: Stormlight Archive Favorite Shard: Devotion Desired Radiants Order: Releasers Desired Twinborn: A Pewter F Gold Favorite emotional manipulation effect: The Thrill which I sometimes get during competitive sports especially volleyball or video games, Though I have tried alcohol and Cannabis so I can sorta tell what being under the effects of emotional manipulation feels like. Resisting the effect is harder than it sounds though not impossible, Most effective way I found to resist is a sudden influx of intense rage/thrill or fear. I can kinda understand Koloss better now. Brandon Sanderson and his writers have really thought about these things... Favorite Character: The Fused, Just like them I also know what it feels like to be stuck in an endless fantasy battle hating your enemy and hostile with your allies, forever fighting yet going nowhere. This is because I play competitive league of legends. Jokes aside I can partly connect with Kaladin, Elend and Shallan in certain ways but The character I best connect with will probably be Lightsong though I'm not as bold as he is.

Hello All I was wondering what would happen if let's say I was a twinborn from Pewter allomancy and gold feruchemey. Would I be able to burn Pewter to increase my strength and then use that strength to fill my gold metal minds? Pretty much cheating and using the health granted to me by pewter instead of my own health to fill my gold metal minds. Essentially gaining all the benefits that a gold compounder would get but better in some ways as I do not have to burn any gold doing this. Though filling my metal minds would take longer. Or is that not possible at all and I cannot draw on the power of pewter to fill my metal mind and doing this will just draw on my own power to fill the mind which means I'll still be weak physically while the minds are filling though maybe not as weak as usual since I'm burning pewter but overall my feruchemy is still net-zero and I won't be able to be immortal or fill extreme amounts of health using pewter. I've listened to graphic audiobooks for all Mistborn main series and side stories so don't worry about spoilers. Sorry if the formatting of tags and the title is off, I'm new here and plan to be active way more once I finish the rest of the cosmere stories (only Emperor's soul, white sand and Arcanum stories left). It's just this question was left on my mind.