-
Posts
5291 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
101
Content Type
Profiles
News
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Events
Everything posted by Thaidakar the Ghostblood
-
*cursing*
Mojang just did the dumbest thing possible.
They've made all of the tools, all of the weapons... do the same damage! Same attack speed! I... I can't.
The heck is wrong with them... Don't they know that their main base of people is the PVPers? Like, srsly.
-
So… uhh… kinda underestimated what I would be getting from the kickstarter .
My dad is awesome.
we’re getting…
*dramatic tension*
The whole thing! I did not expect that.
have y’all backed it yet and to what level? -
So, that darn economy, huh?
-
Dune.
Dune: Part 2.
A movie. A masterpiece, some would say. What would I say? Well...
Buckle your seats, buckaroos, because it's time for an essay.
(Spoilers, btw)
AALLLRIGHT.
Y'all people who haven't seen it gone? Okay, good.
HOLY CRAP.
That was a MOVIE. It was a good movie. First and foremost, I'll rate it 8-9/10. The characters were great. The writing was great. The visuals were stunning. The violence was grotesque, which I think was on purpose. They could've skimmed on the violence like Frank Herbert did, however... perhaps lingering on more of the violence and showing it more excessively within a PG 13 rating helped to portray how the actions of Paul later on when the fremen are sent out on jihad are also absolutely horrible. A lot of the ending stuff was great. I loved Stilgar and Gurney. The fremen were insanely cool.
We need to talk about this film! I'm going to split up different topics into different paragraphs. I'll devote one to things that I think could've been better, one to my harebrained theory, and so on.
Alright, for what could've been better, I think that Gurney, when he killed Rabban, should have, instead of saying "For the Duke and for m friends", said "For my sister, my parents and my Duke." That would have just been far more hard hitting, tbh. I also think that removing Leto II damages Paul's turn to darker paths. His turn from not wanting to use the prophesy to using it. Leto dying was a fully understandable way to show why he did those things and set up the fact that it would take him years to get over the fact that his son was dead. Dune Messiah could've worked better that way in the movies with the flavor Villeneuve is going for. I also think that Chani stuff being left unresolved was a meh move. I think it's nice for movie only fans, but... idk. I just don't like to leave things not in the book unresolved.
I have a theory. IN the book, there is a passage that goes thus. "He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead--in one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: "Hello, Grandfather." The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him. The other path held long patches of grey obscurity except for peaks of violence. He had seen a warrior religion there, a fire spreading across the universe with Atreides green and black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father's men--a pitiful few--were among them, all marked by the hawk symbol from the shrine of his father's skull." The second branching is the path he took in the end. So what about the other path? My theory is that the movies are that other path, the one where he says "Hello, Grandfather." In the movie, he killed the Baron and said, "Grandfather." That would explain some of the differences. THUS, my theory is that the movies are merely the vision that Paul saw in that moment of the book. Thus, the movies are canon in some way.
What is the message of Dune? I'm curious to hear what y'all think. What I think is that the message of Dune is "Beware of charismatic leaders. Be wary of prophets. Remember to question. Be wary of those who say 'do not question'." That is not, perhaps, the message of the entire series, but I think it's the main theme of the first two at least. Dune, in Frank Herbert's mind, was a cautionary tale, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Another thing is this: do you think Paul is a good guy? I think that he is a good protagonist and, in the movies, found himself in a position where he couldn't move from the path, not in a way that was conceivable to him. In the book, what happened was that he was going forward anyways with the intent to do it different from the vision, but his child died and, lost in grief, took out his rage upon everything else in his cold, calculated manner, as Paul does. I think that Paul is an anti-hero, sort of. He wants justice and revenge, but he also does good things. He wants to help people, yet he gets lost in his "hero concept."
Time to talk about Jessica and Alia. I feel like Jessica needed a little more of a transition to being more manipulative. Maybe we could've had a scene with her and Alia talking, a kind of in-between moment. However, I do like how they contributed to the plot, to fill in the gap that Leto II left. I also wanted a bit more of Alia involvement, but I'm fine for less in this movie if we get more in Messiah and, potentially, Children of Dune (which I really want adapted in some form).
Alright, final thoughts time! Feyd was really scary. I wish we had Fenring (the emperor's errand boy), not just his wife. I wonder if Denis will do anything with Feyd's child in Messiah. It was a great film, will watch it again, maybe directly after rewatching the first film! I can't wait to see how Dune affects culture, now that it's fully hit the big screen. A fun contrast is that I saw Wonka on Friday, so seeing Timothee as a more serious character in Dune was kinda funny. OOOHH, the final fight was insanely cool.
Maud'dib!
- Show previous comments 5 more
-
-
-
Quotei did not like the lack of a time jump between paul starting to become a freman to him as a freman. in the books it took him 2 years. in the movie it would had to have been mere months.
Yes, agreed.
QuoteI agree with this completely. That was my main struggle with the movie, was how vague a lot of the "resolutions" were. There were a few places that just felt...rough, unpolished, unsatisfying. I loved the moment in the book where Jessica tells Chani "We, Chani, who carry the name of concubine--history will call us wives." I liked that they showed Chani's anger, but...yeah. I wanted there to be more there than they did.
They needed more of those resolutions, like how it was in the book. I was really looking forward to that line. It was one of, if not my favorite, of the lines in the book.
Quote
(oh somewhat unrelated, but where Paul screamed "That's not hope" was like a knife to the kidney. Because...he was wrong. But he wasn't. Their hope was genuine hope, regardless of the way it had been manipulated. The way it was manipulated, though, was a betrayal of a beautiful concept, which I think the movie showed really well.Oh yeah... That line was amazing. I would say it's just as good as when Anakin says "What have I done..." in Revenge of the Sith. Has a similar feeling to it when you understand the character. It was masterfully done. It summarizes a lot of how Paul was portrayed in this movie.
QuoteI think Paul is human. He's so, so human. And he's young. I think the movie showed that really well; to me, it kind of made me see it from another point of view; Paul was young, he was in love, and he stayed with the fremen out of love for his mother, his sister, and Chani, and on some level out of loyalty to his father. He didn't stay so that he could fulfill some prophecy that meant nothing to him. He didn't stay to become their prophet, their leader. He stayed because he was in love. An overwhelmingly human decision...that cost "61 billion lives, the sterilization of ninety planets, and the "demoralization" of five hundred additional worlds." And wiped out 40 religions.
Anyway, Paul is mostly a good guy, I think. He's good, but he's human, not heroic. He made mistakes, and choices that weren't mistakes but caused violence and horror because of who he was. He had a very difficult hand to play, but he didn't play it like a hero, which we see in both the book and movie. He played it like a boy, and it's heartbreaking.
YES! Paul is mostly a good guy. He's someone with good intentions, a flawed person who didn't make the best judgements with the hand he was given and the way it played out. He is very much human. Paul is basically the definition of what humans are in the end. Flawed creatures who can succeed, yet by succeeding can lose sight of why they set out to do the thing in the first place. Paul made a very relatable choice. He gave into revenge in a different way than Edmond Dantes. He did it in a way that he was going to help people in the end somehow. He'd convinced himself, by the end, that the jihad would be a good thing.
QuoteOh my scudding-
Y'all. Y'all. Maybe you non-actors don't see this as much, but Timothee is an incredible actor. He plays both parts so well and so differently, and he just...I don't know. It's really hard for film actors to make me emotional; you can't feel the presence, the tension in the air, the mood. Like...when I'm watching a good performance, I'll get scared to breathe not because of the story or anything else, but because of the acting. Some actors can just make you need to hear every word to say, and it's a beautiful thing. It's the art that I love at its finest.
He is! He's absolutely amazing! I'm not saying that I'm surprised that he can pull off both, I'm just saying that the contrast is a lot of fun. I'm sad we didn't get to see TImothee singing that love song Paul sung in the book to Chani.
Quote(again, another thing that would've just taken more time, but I wanted them to show Feyd cheating, because I feel like that adds a lot to his character.)
Yes! I was waiting for it in the scene, but I was fine without it there. We didn't have any of the set up for it and would've needed some more Hawat to fully justify it. (ALSO, I'M SAD WE DIDN'T GET PARANOID PANTS MCGEE IN THIS ONE!!!!)
Quotei have a counterargument. in the books we saw Paul as a much more neutral leaning towards good. while in the movie he is portrayed in a much darker light. we see him as a more evil person. not to say i disagree with it (it makes a lot more sense) but i was just too different from the books.
@Thaidakar the Ghostblood what did you mean about lato 2 being missing changed paul. i don't full remember what happened in book 2 so i may be missing somthing.My good, good friend. He was portrayed in a darker light in the books too. It was more subtle, however. Basically, in the books, when Chani and Paul's son, Leto the second the elder (not to be confused with Leto "MOOOONEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! GET ME MY BOOMBOX! I NEED IT FOR THE RITUAL!!!" Atreides the second) died, Paul changed and was more brutal, he was more emotionless and, as Gurney said in the book "You seem more like your grandfather's son." Once Paul's son was killed, he had more motivation to actually let the jihad happen. You could see the change it made on him. There was none of this "Don't go south" business. He went and drank the water of life of his own accord. Jessica called him foolish for it. Paul was doing it so he could try and stop it, but once his son died he lost control in that Paul way of his, methodically and cold. Cruel. He became centered on the vision, letting it consume him. Thus, he fulfilled the vision. Once the grief faded over the years, once the trauma of all the things that had happened faded away... once he realizes what he's done to the universe... that's when we get Dune: Messiah.
Quotei didnt like the duel at the end as much. i felt it took away from pual's whole the prophet part. in the book he would have easily won using the future as a guide.
I reccomend you go reread that last chapter in the book. Paul saw two visions, split like clouds of glory. If he died, his jihad would continue on with his sister and Jessica, and with Stilgar and all the rest. If he lived, the jihad would rage forward either way. He wanted revenge more this time. There was many many visions of different people converged on that point, so he could not truly see the future in exactity. The navigators were there, there were the many navigators in the ships above. They were clouding his oracle in a way.
Now, there's something I don't think you understand about Paul and the concept of seeing the future when it is applied in dune. Dune future sight is not the same as in MIstborn. Atium you get to see the shadow moving forward during a fight. the spice does not let you have a faster mental speed and see those things. The spice is seeing the future before that point. As mentioned previously, Paul could not see it exactly. Paul can't see everything. The fact that you can see the future does not change your capabilities physically. Paul did not see the outcome of his duel, nor did he see who his killer was. It could have been Fenring, but it was not. It could have been Feyd, however... Paul cheated. He did not win on his own merits. Feyd was going to kill Paul but Paul said the word that made Feyd freeze up so he could kill Feyd. The ability to see the future does not make you inherently better at fighting in the Dune universe.

