Elwynn

In Dalinar's vision of the Recreance, he remarks that one of the Radiants has the 'skin ripples of the Selay.' Which I'm guessing is old Sela Tales. Though he doesn't refer to anyone else there by the old Silver Kingdoms nationalities. Which is weird. A brigde to completely Off-Topic stuff. And as an aside...there is also land in old Makabakam, probably Azir or Emul, where the 'stone itself is ribbed and rippled, like frozen waves of water.' Which is exactly the land Dalinar visits in his Midnight Essence vision...except the Radiant tells him it's Natanatan; but Dalinar doesn't remark on any strangeness of race or hair color and we know Natanatans have blue tinted skin and white hair.

Incredibly awesome. Nice job! Tried applying it to AoL, Argle-bargle, glop-glyph. On to Mistborn trilogy!

Short and sweet. Let's go. Was reading Telcontar's 'Herald's Couples' thread, it had me looking at front cover glyphs. I drive myself crazy with the front and back covers. Anyway, I noticed a glint within certain orders (the large circles/glyphs inside front cover). Easiest to see is Windrunner order; very top, slightly offset to the left. The same glint can be seen in orders: 3, 4, 6, 9 and 10. All on the left side as well. 9 and 10 are a little harder to see. Not sure what it could mean really, maybe BS telling us which orders are represented on-screen in book 1? Except placing orders 3 and 4 that way is eluding me. And for 10/Ishi to work, only way I see that is the Alerter fabrial from the interlude.

42? I have it on good authority from the dolphins that the answer was 16.

I like this. After going back and reading those parts...I can definitely see some strange behavior out of Danlan. Nice eye. Connecting her to Tarah seems a little far fetched at this point. But like you said...just not enough info on either of them. Still, I have to agree with you at this point that Danlan appears to have some nefarious motives in the camps. Sweet lord I'm dying for book 2 of SA.

Extremely well written. I'll keep this short, as the posts above pretty much touched on every aspect of the story. Not sure I agree with others needing certain facets of connection. The mother's antithesis to the sexual connection Brenton has in the narrative; I think it was beautifully expressed in the sterile upbringing. Much of it is just fear for Brenton...but the way it sent her overboard in his reclusive restrictions, while still growing up loved in every way, highly educated, it's a nice play on literal opposties. He obvioulsy would have been a very different person if left to his own devices. Sterile, reclusive...playing off the innate freedom and deviousness of the stigma that comes with absolute sexual freedom. Loved it. Bravo. Rarely done well with something so cliche as the out of control fire mage. And I would say that all responses to this 'wanting more' of the characters...the connection...the story...(myself included) I think that speaks for itself on the interest level you've managed to engender in such few words. I will say this. Be careful when relying so heavily on imagery and beautiful metaphors to carry the narrative...because when you come across a euphemism like "plonker" in an otherwise wonderfully worded structure, it's jarring to say the least. Reminds me how much work it takes to write so metaphorically well. It makes me start relating things to a bad harlequin novel. I know what you're saying with something missing in the end, there's just not enough tie in, not enough 'wholeness' to be a rounded out story. Rather...the story itself seems like a wonderful jumping off point, a solid start to what could be a very good short story. Or even novella...I'd read it. No quesiton from what I've seen. Yados and Asmo both give some great insight on key points that could be expanded...so I'll leave it at that. Nicely done.

Alright, I think I'm going crazy. Would somebody get a hardback and help confirm/deny? Open Shadesmar map... Find Sea of Lost Lights There's only one piece of 'land' near there...find the southwestern most point. Now go straight south, seaching slowly. Can you make out something that looks like clouds surrounding a stick figure with a necktie? (Don't laugh...I'm serious) Find Sea of Souls Search the area south of writing...2 or 3 should jump right out at you. In between Nexus of Truth and Nexus of Transition is another. Touching the northwestern most point of where purelake is should be another. Over near Dawn's Shadow is another. Last time I was counting...it was upwards of a dozen that I could make out. Seems like it's a symbol for something else...but I can't quite make out anything with the clouds. Somebody please tell me I'm not seeing things.

That is awesome! Nice find Aiken! Along with the pics on Isaac's site which show the symbol behind the sword associated with the Windrunner's...well I think you're right. Definitely seems like it refers to Stormfather/Jezrien/Windrunners! So that explains the Shattered Plains symbol. And the Silver Kingdoms Epoch symbol. Dueling arena? Dalinar or Adolin maybe... Kharbranth? I am soooo tempted to say Szeth, but we know he's not on the track for KR. And Shadesmar symbol? I'm going to laugh so hard if that's where Jezrien has been hiding all this time. Again, great job Aiken!

Most definitely. In fact, most have writing at the bottom with in world descriptions i.e. 'towards the bottom is stormward.' Presumably, yes. Personally I think it's a symbol representing a secret order. Most likely Ghostbloods at this point. But mostly because of limited knowledge of any other secret sects beyond something like Teft's parents. Currently searching for ways to link it to the Vanrial...since they value The Way of Kings so highly, sing the dawnchant, etc. The problem is linking it to the currently unknown location the symbol overlays on the Shadesmar map. Thought it was the Nightwatcher, but the Valley is over by Emul... Just really feel like I'm missing something obvious linking it all.

No worries. I was actually afraid I had stupidly overlooked something obvious. Was feeling really dumb there for a minute. Thank you so much for posting the pics...they look great. The whole clockwise tilt thing has me confounded...not sure where to go from there. The symbol on Shadesmar map seems the most important right off the bat.

@Peter: Thank you very much for the nudge in the right direction! That would be very much appreciated! I'm not sure what you're talking about. Radiants and Surges? I'm talking about the compass symbol, and it's the EXACT same one on every page I listed in OP. I even explained how to find them. Found matches? They're all matches. The compass symbol is on every single one of those pages. And yes, this particular one would be the one on pg. 274 that I listed in the OP. Sorry, just very excited about this and not really sure what you've read from the original post.

edit 4/26/13 Updated for new information, might make it easier to read in future. And Peter kindly pointing in the right direction. Okay…I just cut about 2000 words from this because it was getting…out of hand. And also because I find it hard to believe that no one has discussed this before. So let’s get to it. All pages are hardback edition. You will need: Maps: -of pg. 12-13 map of modern day Roshar ( not silver kingdoms epoch) Thanks to Aiken, you'll need that map too! -of pg. 20 map of Alethkar -of pg. 182 map of Shattered Plains -of pg. 274 map of Alethi Warcamps -of pg. 454 map of Kharbranth -of Shadesmar (back cover/back of last page) And a bright light/lamp So grab your hardbacks or open some new tabs… Look at the map of modern day Roshar, pg. 12-13. -find Kharbranth. Just to remember where it is. -take a look at the compass (with (N)North, (St)Stormward, (S)South, (L)Leeward) and memorize the symbol in the middle. -take a look at Isasik Shulin’s stamp/royal seal (bottom right corner), just for future reference Now… Look at map of Alethkar, pg. 20 -find the Shattered Plains Look at map of Shattered Plains, pg. 182 -find the dueling arena (towards the top left if looking at it so writing is readable)…look VERY carefully, get out that lamp if you have to Look at map of Alethi Warcamps, pg. 274 -Look at left column of glyphpairs, right in the center (if words are readable) Look at map of Kharbranth pg. 454 -find the Palanaeum (top-most building)…look carefully -find the ship in the lower left corner, look at the sails And… Look at the map of Shadesmar (back cover…back of last page) -find where Kharbranth would be… -now look a little Stormward See it? It’s the same symbol! And it’s everywhere! Well…it could be the symbol for Kharbranth, though on the Shadesmar map it is so far off from the correct position that it’s hard for me to imagine without it being a misprint. On the map of modern day Roshar, the symbol seems like it would be located in between the ‘F’ in Frostlands and the last ‘H’ in Kharbranth. Not to mention the symbol being all over the drawings of the Shattered Plains. It has to be the symbol for the Royal High Cartographer, Isasik Shulin. He’s connected to every drawing except the pg. 454 one. Though the one on pg. 274 is a tenuous connection. But it seems like he is the creator of the ‘in world’ stained glass window of Shadesmar. So… Look at modern map of Roshar -find Isasik Shulin’s royal seal (lower right hand corner) -get out that light - find ‘1167’, now look THROUGH it. In between the ‘K’ in Isasik, and ‘S’ in Shulin you can see the claw from the same symbol I’m referencing in this thread. Take note: The royal cartographer seal appears to be the same as the symbols in the upper left hand corner (on modern map of Roshar), but if you look closely…those are just simplified, three-prong representations of the symbol inside N, St, S, L. But if it’s the royal cartographer seal…that doesn’t explain the Palanaeum having the symbol overlaid upon it. Not to mention the pg. 454 picture is surrounded by the 3rd symbol from the back cover. Oh, if Isasik is an in-world Ghostblood that could explain a few things. Though the ship and sail still has me stumped. So that gives us… Well I have no freaking clue, really. But this all seems so cool. I’m very confused though. Opinions? Also, most of what I cut out of this involves a weird clockwise tilt that several of the symbols take on. But my wife thinks I’m seeing things, so I’ll leave the theorizing to everyone.

Nohadon Windrunner got me thinking about some things. And it kind of spiraled out of control. This is a flow of thought…which I tried to clean up and present evidence for. But I just had to get it down while it was crossing my mind. The first part is musings; leading up to a theory Windrunner had me thinking about. “Only honorpsren are bonded for surgebinding.” Okay. So can everyone agree that radiants are nothing more than surgebinders who have accessed higher levels of power? I know there is a lot more that goes into it…morality, theology, lifestyle…sanderson said himself, “on roshar, it’s about what you do.” But can everyone agree that at the base of it, radiants are surgebinders who have become more powerful with stormlight? But how? The way of kings obviously, but how the hell can words bring more power? It’s ideals to live by that seemingly grant radiants their power, however we’ve seen first hand how simply speaking the words can take you to the next level of surgebinding. Presumably if you’re ready…and living properly…like Kaladin. That’s my qualm. Why would these words be what brings power? And why didn’t surgebinders know these words? The words, ‘spark in Kaladin’s mind,’ though he had no prior knowledge of them…except for Syl seeming to know something is up. But surgebinders have always had spren, even honorspren, and even in Nohadon’s day. Why no ‘spark’ of words then? That’s pretty much spot on with the First Ideal. I mean eerily spot on. It’s tough to get closer to ‘Journey before Destination.’ And again, it’s the words that make you better with stormlight. But if the words existed before Nohadon…how did Nohadon hit it so perfectly by accident? More importantly, if the words are Immortal, why didn’t the Almighty just tell everyone this in the first place? I mean, the Almighty straight up tells Dalinar the Immortal Words…the First Ideal…in his last vision (or first, depending on the view), but also tells him to ‘read the book’ in a previous vision. Why mention Nohadon? Why read the book when you're handing out the words? Even if the Almighty couldn’t just hand them out, why would the Heralds not say anything? Because… Nohadon’s time… The Heralds were just there, I mean JUST there. Nohadon’s people are still clearing bodies, ‘heard initial reports…what will the heralds find when they next return?’ So everyone from then knew the heralds…Nohadon might have interacted personally with several of them. So why no mention of the Almighty, or of honorable acts leading to more power? Nohadon’s people obviously know the symbol for the Almighty’s double eye/hourglass that the radiants later used, but no mention of the Almighty or honor. The world even seems torn at that time…between people like Nohadon and the rest of the world, arguing over whether their power is proof of divine election to rule. (Nohadon’s beliefs are obviously of the minority) Why wouldn’t the Heralds set them straight? Why not tell them about the Almighty? Hell, why not tell them the Immortal words and help create the radiants? I’m getting to the Oathpact. Hold on. We'll get back to this. (Also, it seems important to remember that the Ideals the radiants used from tWoK are modeled after the Heralds…not the Almighty. With the Heralds representing one of the ten facets of the divine prism, and each order then modeling themselves after each Herald.) Now, Compared with… This doesn’t jive. There is no way the world can be in the shape it is, and Nohadon still consider it an easy life following the desolation. He would have nations to check up on, after securing and rebuilding his own. Foodstuffs and stockpiles to replenish. Try to convince other kings not to seek advantage over one another, or else to conquer them. Not an easy life. That’s not even easily manageable in an entire life. Much less be able to call it, ‘easy…following the desolation.’ No. Something dramatic changed shortly after the desolation. And it put Nohadon in control of everything. Sorry for the deviation... So we have simple words, unbeknownst to all, even the Heralds and spren, somehow instantly bring surgebinders more power with stormlight. But that doesn’t make sense. It would mean that the Almighty didn’t set these specifications. I mean, how could words written by Nohadon be what brings more power? Shouldn’t it just be living an honorable life; being closer to Tanavast/Honor in lifestyle that brings the graduation of power for a radiant? Instead it’s words written by a man that are the key to unlocking the next step. More so, you have honorspren that each bond to a model of a Heralds’ divine attribute…and without the Heralds knowing any of this? Wouldn’t the Heralds know it is all from the Almighty? Immortality, Honorblades, Surgebinding, etc. The people all know the Heralds’ divine attributes (of the Almighty)…presumably because the Heralds told them. Why not tell them, ‘live honorably, and maybe the Almighty will bless you.’ Or, ‘That honorspren requires something more of you, perhaps you should reevaluate your decisions in life.’ Which still doesn’t even account for the words being needed. During desolations and stuff…don’t you think the heralds would immediately hand out instructions to give allies more hope? Even if they’d forgotten everything? Something to give them better chances? To give them a chance? Nohadon’s entire world is gone. Population easily cut right in half, at the very least. And probably much more than that; entire countries/nations are dead. So why would the heralds not do anything? They fought for ELEVEN years. Why would they say nothing of surgebinders? And not a single surgebinder, even those with honorspren, ever ‘spark’ any words? Because the words didn’t exist yet, it has got to be as simple as that. Crazy, I know. Now, take the Oathpact…and if you get really crazy for a second… What explains how the simple words of a man can bring power to a surgebinder? And without the Heralds, the spren or the Almighty knowing these words prior? A new binding to the Oathpact. I think Nohadon found Honor and Odium. Okay…maybe not really like that. I think he found a Dawnshard. And this let him ‘find’ Honor, Odium, and the Oathpact. I think this is Nohadon. Hang with me. Now, I have no idea what a Dawnshard is. But even the Almighty thinks highly of them. And they seem to have an effect on binding the enemy. So a Dawnshard seems kind of like it allows an amendment to the Oathpact, doesn’t it? And that it would be very difficult without one? So what if Nohadon created the way for radiants? What if he found a Dawnshard, and changed the magic system/spren. What if that’s why his words are the key? So much so that the Almighty later references them? So if Nohadon could make a binding—add an amendment of his words—and change the magic system to how he thought it should be; well it would be precisely what it is today. Only honorspren will bond for surgebinding, and only honorable actions receive more power. Better yet…he would be the only one who knew the words. And every Nahel bond besides honorbound, would dissipate. And being a more honorable system… Not only could he offer surgebinders more power if they follow him, but by being tied to the honorspren, it also insured the wrong people couldn’t fake it. That they were already on the right path. And all of this would leave lots of spren in the world that aren’t needed for bonding anymore. They would just wander around…attracted to strong emotions and states of being. Specifically…maybe those they used to bond with. But like Kabsal tries to explain…the cosmere balanced out the good with the bad. The Oathpact. Odium got in on the deal. You change the rules and bind one side with the Dawnshard…the other side gets bound as well. Nohadon mentions Yelig-nar, Heralds, surgebinding, soulcasting…no voidbinding. The deal Nohadon made was bound to the Heralds, modeling the Ideals after their divine attributes; and in some way, this allowed modeling behavior after the Unmade an equally rewarding magic system. Boom, voidbinding. Rewrite the rules…pay the price of balance. The Oathpact. I spoke of more honor=more power. Somewhere in there Nohadon would have to account for the Blades and Plate. Now, if Nohadon found the Almighty/Odium and the Oathpact. Naturally, changing the magic system to be more honorable/only honorspren would bring everyone closer to Tanavast; making for much stronger surgebinders. All you would need is the words to restrict the most power to the most honorable. This plays into the eyes of some of the radiants ‘glowing’ ‘almost white.’ I think this could be the higher tiers of radiant powers. After the later Ideals. Brighter eyes=more honorable in life=more ideals spoken=more power with stormlight. The people with the lightest eyes would have been the most honorable, distorted through Vorinism and the passing of time, into what we have today—Lighteyes are the most honorable. So…Blades and Plate. I now postulate as the uppermost tier of radiants’ power: Investiture. The ability to throw stormlight earned (like in the eyes), into objects. To permanently change them, a sort of super soulcasting available at the highest tier. So that’s it. Quite a few problems. Worst of which is the spren would just be pawns in a big game, which makes me feel bad for them. But I just had to share that.

This. Where did you get this? BS quote? (Or did I totally miss a theory post of yours?) Because I don't think Jasnah has an honorspren. Nor Shallan. Elhokar probably isn't seeing honorspren. Dalinar doesn't seem to have a spren, though his situation is quite different. Just wondering how you're seeing that.

So, after perusing several Unmade/yelig-nar threads, as well as the Coppermind Wiki, there seems to be something conspicuously missing from all of it. I know some moderators HATE reviving old topics...so. So we've known those for a long time. But even the Coppermind Wiki is missing the fourth one. Just thought it should be added. Pg. 671 (hardcover) The similarities seem pretty obvious. However there is no mention of consuming...seems the only argument I can come up with against it being an Unmade/ten fools. But the music part...Parshendi anyone?

Okay. First and foremost, I just can’t get into the story at this point. I really like the deep history of the thirteen families, faking their disappearance in order to establish a peacekeeping force. Very noble. Very cool. These are characters I want to know about. I also like the mystery of the island…how no magic can affect movement in any part of it. These are things that normally suck me in. The problem for me is the mesh and flow of it. Grumr calls the island a well known criminal safe haven. “Rotten to the core,” only idiots and thieves out at night… Yet you have a university residing on the island, as well as Keth’s job being working somewhere checking in tourists. Very hard to imagine people vacationing somewhere they can’t go out at night, with smugglers and thieves running rampant throughout. It doesn’t fit together for me. Maybe if you give me examples of the necessity for people to still be going there it would work better. I was really looking forward to being in Keth’s head after reading Grumr’s part. But Dex kind of seemed like a let down. It’s so hard to believe in Grumr’s mission, and the serious danger of summoners when the 7-foot tall, red soldier demon is actually sarcastic and friendly; and seems to be helpful to boot. I’m not feeling the urgency and danger of hunting someone for 13 years when he seems to have suffered no penalties for facing off against a demon when he was merely a child. If he’s just that good, give me examples or straight up tell me he’s in the upper tier of power among summoners. Very nitpicky… But it’s hard to get past your prose. At one point you have a group of eleven sentences with the word ‘city’ in eight of them. As well as sentences like, "Everybody assumed the law was on the books from before The Thirteen Families, the mage clans of old, had gone extinct in the aftermath of the Witch Wars." It’s all definitely fixable, just stuff that was really pulling me out of the story. After a revision or two, you have a pretty good start to an urban fantasy type setting.

I definitely like it. Quite a bit drew me in. The opening with Rae dying was well done. I felt a part of it. But perhaps bring her description (the boils and blisters/bone white skin) forward a little more. I was surprised at her description after the fact, I had pictured a wasting sickness akin to starving. More specifically, I'm loving the fear of the world. The Guardians and the Sight. Storing the dead instead of burying them, coupled with the 'unpredictable' soil has me thinking the world is alive...has me fearing the world itself, the same intrigue that had me drooling over cold fire trilogy. The bad impressions... The elves reference as the native people was a little bit of an eye-roll, if only because of the cliche behind the name. Also, I'm really glad I read the first post before putting this up. Maybe it's general knowledge from the sequel (Black Magic), but with Rae dying at 10, and reference to the Death Times coming centuries after their father left the Watches seems contradictory. Wouldn't that make Rae hundreds of years old? Or is one year=a hundred years to them? Very confusing. But apparently immortality is dying out among these people. Problem is I had to get that from the first post. I'd be left very confused without that. All in all though, great start to the story. Lots to get a reader like me hooked. And I indeed can't wait for more.

That just backs up what I'm saying. Even more similarities between a shardic interaction we know has no current holder and one that is appearing more and more to have the same situation going on. If Divine Breath is a splinter--and splinters like on Sel are results of a shattered shards (don't think we've seen any besides those two). Then it's just more evidence for Endowment being dead. Your quote: "However it appears that Seons required someone to make them..." Is there evidence for that, or are you just throwing that out there? I've been away for a while and still trying to catch up on all the threads I've missed, so kind of important to what I'm thinking here.

Not sure where to begin with that. Lightsong didn't speak to Endowment...at least, not any more than someone in the pool in kae spoke to Aona. And we know Aona was dead at that point. Preservation communicated constantly. I'm not sure what made you say that. Leras was literally killing himself trying to communicate with Vin and Elend. Dominion I have no idea about...I'm not drawing a parallel to him. Both Aona and Endowment's interactions (that we've witnessed) are both described as nothing more than a calm and comforting voice offering a choice. That's the parallel I was describing. And since we know Aona was dead...it must have been what was left of her shard (or what was left of her shard in that state, i.e. liquid) running on auto-pilot. The similarity between the two interactions (and one we KNOW was running on auto-pilot)...as well as BS being so sly and full of smiles about questions concerning Endowment's gender is what led me to make the assumption.

Seems to me he's probably RAFO'ing because Endowment's holder is dead. And similar to Aona...what's left of the shard is running on auto-pilot. Only one other time did we encounter a shard speaking in a vague voice and offering nothing else but a simple option, and it kills me to say it this way...but both cases are options in direct correlation with the principle intent of that shard. Any other time, interaction with a shard is a sentient interaction--even after Leras can no longer speak. Honor even had time to prepare something. Aona was killed, her shard splintered. But it's obviously still running on auto-pilot. i.e. the choice for the pain to end, the love and compassion that's left from the splintering of the shard. I think Endowment was killed. By Odium or otherwise. And is now running on auto-pilot, offering a simple choice for those ABLE to be propositioned. Auto-pilot could also loosely account for breath's and the relative early stages of beginning to understand Awakening. Though breath's are NOT splinters such as Divine Breath's, could be a side effect that the splintering released massive amounts of the power from Endowment--allowing anyone to 'endow'. Weak, I know. But really the only reason I can see Sanderson being coy about this particular question. He tells us things far more revealing all the time. *shrug* Seems to make sense to me.

I love this site, you guys are awesome. Never gotten an arc before...so pick me! Pick me!

Other sword(s) named: Nalan'Elin carries retribution, which seems to fit with his primary attribute. I thought there was another shardblade named in the book, but I can't remember. Maybe it was just Oathbringer.

Very well put together, I like it. In fact, I like it so much I had originally thought the same thing. But on tWoK tour, when BS came to St. Louis I asked him this. He crushed it. I don't remember the exact wording, but I asked about Hoid using shadesmar to planet hop, and if that's where shardblades are summoned from--or through. He said no, it was just the mechanism that made sense to him when he went about describing the process. Great theory though! Sorry to be the bummer.