Elwynn

Well I just spent forever looking for this because I thought I remembered it relating to Taln's Scar more directly. But now I see why no one has mentioned it/remembers it, but it still seems like Taln's Scar could fit. Definitely not as direct as I remembered, but still could fit. Then again so could a nearby moon or something. Just thought I would throw it out there, help add something because I agree, I think Taln's Scar will be something more than just an aesthetic description in the story.

Yes, I keep meaning to do a post on them. But we don't have to call them Truthspren anymore, BS named them Cryptics. Also, the symbols making up their heads are not glyphs, but we should be able recognize them.

My loft has concrete floors...which will be swimming with chalklings if this could just be mine! I promise pics and waffles as bribery.

Not sure exactly what you're missing, but if you don't have a hardcopy, hit up Isaac Stewart's website. He has very nice pics of all the art in the book, as well as a compilation pic that is not in the book. You'll see the sword glyphs and the one imprinted on the hard cover (not the dust jacket), which corresponds to the top-right glyph of the Radiant Order glyphs. It represents the Windrunner order and Kaladin developing in to one since this was his book.

lol, glad I read the posts now. Was about to link Harakeke's timeline as well. It's rough going to try and do that, but you did come up with a similar guess at the length of time in that thread. So you can't be far off.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al9mpDUN_8rSdGZIcU1DbFJ1amRLb2l6UVZwRWtEQ3c&authkey=CPyvzssM *shutters* It was done quite a while ago to give reference to some major events and the passage of time. I didn't go through the whole post though, was that what you're looking for?

Extremely well said. I was never more proud to be part of 17th shard than when that troll came along and started flaming someone for their opinion, and BAM, by the end of the day had like 20 downvotes and was banned shortly after. I have a serious love for all the fans here. Great points as well. It's actually really hard for me to explain why I feel this way about stuff like this...like with the Cosmere 101 and 201 threads: Personally I don't see a reason to quote any of the stuff at all. Someone new comes along and what...wants to call it all lies while they're trying to learn about it? I think that's where it all becomes pointless and needless for me. Though I may be just lazy at heart. *shrug* A perfect example I can think of is with Meg, she came along recently and instantly jumped into discussions and providing quotes for people because it was obvious she took the time to read through and learn all about it for herself (whether she did it while lurking or after she joined). And I think that is way more beneficial in the long run to newcomers. But I can see the need for ease of access I guess. Flash and Chaos said it best, discretion discretion discretion. Personally don't feel the need to most of the time, and don't want to get yelled at anytime I don't. Great poll by the way Kurk, 2nd only to 'what should we call ourselves' poll, in my mind. (And yeah, I did that to see if you would feel compelled to cite that poll with a link)

Couldn't disagree with Kurk more on where the burden lies with quotes. If someone is nice enough to point something out to inform others, or to provide some insight or support for a thought they're expressing, the burden is on anyone who doesn't recognize or understand what the quote is. After all, like Kurk said above, you already know the quote you're referring to, as many of us who've been around for a while do as well. The burden is for anyone new to the cosmere or who can't remember it specifically (or in a rare case doesn't believe them/thinks they're making it up), to do the leg work and learn for themselves. Everyone went through it, and you tend to learn extra tidbits on the side of what you're looking for anyways. It's a tad bit different if you're trying to use a semantic argument, or pick apart a particular sentence to try and find new angles...but I only support linking those because you're going to have to look it up anyways to make sure you get it verbatim. And like others pointed out, it's freaking annoying to look something up that I already had memorized years ago, just to link it. If you doubt it, or want to dispute it, look it up for yourself. You might learn something in the process.

Ummm...maybe you missed the Galladon example, but yes, that's what I said. Or meant at least. He puts easter eggs like that all over the place for us Sharders (or I like to assume it's for those of use obssessed with the cosmere). And like Kurk said, normally I wouldn't draw the parallel because Dragonsteel is not canon, but Hoid almost certainly used it when telling Kal the story of Derethil. What's tickling my brain is who brought the connection over with them. Could be any/either of the shards that came to Roshar, or Hoid, or maybe the Heralds...just trying to think of any connections that can be made right now.

What's got me thinking is the relationship Hoid might have to that Order. No way BS is that lazy or disconnected as to use the same name for seperate things. Same reason we saw the Dula language in WoK and knew it was no coincidence. Now I'm wondering if Hoid shared some knowledge (or some other old-worlder) way back when. Or maybe a Herald or two came from Yolen? Need to think on this stuff for a while.

Definitely have to watch out for all those beings with makeup on.

He's doing it in the lobby of his hotel from 5:45-6:15 only. Anybody live around there? He has copies of Steelheart to give away! Ticks me off, parents used to live in St. Pete. Would be begging them to get there if they hadn't moved last year. Anybody? Would love a spoiler-free Steelheart review from some 17th sharder. Sanibel, FL Hotel details link is on his twitter page. edit: because I can't spell

Just a little more to add to why Odium might be more powerful. edit: chopped the post

Sat, 1. Hmmm, I'm not sure we understand each other. I was talking about the repetitive use of the same phrse, followed by an abrupt change in tense seconds later when he begins the actual message. There isn't any winding down nor long passage in time within the vision. But I might be missing what you're trying to say (really sorry if I am, just give it another shot). :)/>/> 2. That is actually a really good point I hadn't thought of, we only really get the Vorin view of things, (since we hear Shallan speak of it, and she is Veden), but other place might have some names we haven't seen yet. Still, several people from several nations call it the Recreance, so I have to stick with what I was saying. 3. I...don't really agree. I understand what you mean, and it's entirely possible, I just think it was all far more sacred and holy. Besides, that was just some opinion of mine in the end to try and express how ridiculous I thought it that a horrible slaughter happened that way, it's one of the more unreasonable things I've tried to imagine. 4. I understand they could lie, I just don't think every one of them would do it. I think others would soon find out, especially the rest of the military, and then there would be no way the world would stand for that. I think the story would have changed, but that's all opinion, I'll reiterate more stuff at the bottom. 5. Ya, certainly don't agree with that. Especially with the quotes...they weren't angry or mad, he didn't yell at Dalinar or give him a dirty look, nothing. It's like he wasn't even there, which BS points out. ;)/>/> Well, I understand that the last vision might actually be endgame for Odium. But I don't think there is anyway that it will just happen, bam, like that. If he can do that...there's no need for desolations, and we've seen those. So he has to at least wipe out mankind first. He's just showing the Dalinar the need to fight. That's why I said, 'you've got see it's at least partly a metaphor.' The quote doesn't seem to me it is certain at all. Take the whole chapter in context and he's basically begging for someone, anyone, to do something. To try, because it's almost over and he's trying to give clues on how to do it. He can see some of the future. He's got to know this was coming and is trying to give some last bit of hope. I tend to think the opposite, that a single group of 'mundane' people would be far easier to see in the future than the KR exact acts during the Recreance. In fact, I can't fathom why on Roshar it would be easier to see the KR. But again...the whole thing is Honor's viewing of the Recreance (imo of course), I think it just changes into Honor's fear vision when feeling strikes him. Maybe I shouldn't have shirked the quotes. I think it changes when the sense starts. I know some people think it's the spren dying, I don't. Why the mix of feelings and sense of dread? Why would the Almighty send that except to speak the best he could in metaphor? He doesn't say anything about the weapons making the noise, and he's usually pretty good at dropping one-line foreshadowing like that. I think that's the moment the vision changes, and I think BS points it out time and again as Dalinar runs among them and they act like zombies...but I already quoted those above. Lol, why would Dalinar suddenly be speaking gibberish? He speaks their languages just fine in the visions, in fact, it seems he speaks them just fine back in modern day Roshar as well. They didn't just not stop, they were like puppets. No emotion whatsoever. BS even points out 'it's like he wasn't there.' BS is the master of one-line foreshadowing to me, so maybe I read too much into it. I simply can't see it as reasonably real. I actually take it as a good sign people mostly try to dispute the later comments and personal reasoning I was trying to pile up to back it all up, and not the actual substance of the theory. I don't see how the former KR can not be seen as absolutely fake towards the end of the vision, seems to me BS points it out clearly several times. *shrug* But I guess everyone doesn't see it that way, and I can understand that. But come on, the end parts are just my opinionated reasoning. Does no one want to take a stab at disputing the Death Rattle? I find that to be the base behind it all. And the repeated message? I'm very curious how some of you guys see that. There's no reason for it, except an edited or changed message, that I can see. The change in tense is what does it for me. If you read it without all the filler between them, it...seems so off, so weird. edit: because I am terrible at remembering to close tags.

Extremely good point. It is not confirmed that Radiants didn't need gems. I tend to look at the way the KR accessed the Stormlight freely and to varying degrees in 'Starfalls' chapter, along with BS quote... ...and I tend to assume that KR had different ways of powering their Plate. But you're right, that was just a closing thought (and total speculation) on what changed about the Plate for normal people compared to KR. Well, I don't really think it was a true accounting of history. But if it was...they may have fought next to KR, but I doubt any normal person up to that point would have had experience wearing Plate, and would probably know nothing of what is on the inside. But I was mainly using it for reasoning of why I don't think it was realiably true. If it's a true accounting...they wouldn't have to admit anything. The rest of the military, and soon after many others, would find out that they wantonly slaughtered a whole lot of people. They would be outcasts...with a lot of people wanting revenge. Again, I was pointing out that the rest of the world wouldn't stand for something like that, and even Shardbearers can be brought down when overwhelmed. But I was just using it to show why I don't think it could have been the real story of how the Recreance happened. Just a metaphor for the way humanity would turn on itself. edit: because I realized I was about to double post.

Haven’t posted a theory in a while…didn’t realize how much I missed it. Ok, I’m tired of people saying we know Honor was alive when the vision of the Recreance happened. Never been confirmed. And personally, I think he was already Splintered and gone. But perhaps I should try to sway those who disagree. Let’s get to it. It pretty much starts here for me… Hard to dispute that. Seems like maybe a KR who gave up their Plate and Blade. Either way, some of the KR still lived when Honor died. (Unless you want to dispute the validity of the dying visions…which is a-whole-nother conversation.) Not enough for ya? Didn’t think it would be. Okay… We all know that some of the visions the Almighty shows Dalinar are past visions, and more than one of them are his fears for the future. Also remember that Honor is not the most adept at glimpsing the future. Honor then goes on to show Dalinar a pretty intense vision of the True Desolation. I want to point out three things about the last vision in the book: 1) This is the only confirmed attempt to show the future 2) The vision is a metaphor. The True Desolation—a stormwall of dust wrecks the world and tears away the stone of the earth, leaving…just the empty void. I mean, if you don’t agree that that’s at least partly a metaphor, you’re smoking something. 3) It’s highly detailed and feels the same to Dalinar as the past visions. One of things that seems most off to me…is also the one up for the biggest interpretation. Now, I know when you read it straight through in the book…it doesn’t seem that odd. But look at it. Why the repetition? More importantly, why the change in verb tense? That’s what bugs me more than anything. Doesn’t that look and sound like a broken record? Or something that has been re-recorded several times? Seems to me Honor changed the vision several times as possible futures changed/became a little more clear. Next biggest problem I find with this vision… This screams to me ‘a guess at the future.’ Mainly because there aren’t ‘many names,’ there is only one. The Recreance. And if it happened before he died…wouldn’t the Almighty know the name? Seems again, to me, that Honor is trying to relay his best guess at the fears he knows is coming. And if you look at the phrasing, it certainly doesn’t sound like it already happened. Now… This is the only vision of Dalinar’s that has a section of it in which no one reacts/interacts with him. (Grant it, we haven’t seen all his visions, but we go with what we have.) It is my thought that after Dalinar leaves Feverstone Keep, it ceases to be any sort of a confirmed vision. And becomes an attempt to relay fear of the future. This is broken up of course, but still chronological. All bolded emphasis mine. Doesn’t seem real to me. Almost like puppets in a play. Sure, they could be sad or heartbroken or something, or more likely angry or hurt; but instead…there’s absolutely nothing. I think this is what happens when Honor tries to see things in the future that are a little hazy as to exactly how it will happen. Take the quotes of the KR walking away, and think about the regular soldiers… They just slaughtered everyone. Superiors in rank, friends, all for something that really they have no idea about. I mean, they aren’t Radiants. So they will need gems to power the suits. But they don’t know this. So they won’t be able to immediately run around conquering everyone. More importantly, shouldn’t the suits fail completely and crush them since they can’t power them? What do they tell their kingdoms and other superiors when they get back? What do they tell their families!?! “Ummm…well…okay, we slaughtered everyone we were stationed with at Feverstone Keep…but look what we got!” I simply don’t buy it. It’s all a metaphor from the Almighty, just like the other future vision. The KR walking away slowly and silently; all the men rushing out in a mad scramble to fight over the Plate and Blades. He’s telling Dalinar how the KR will give up their postions, and mankind will begin using the weapons against each other. Probably one of his biggest fears for the future, and exactly what Odium wants.

That's the same way I felt when I first read the pages of Navani's notebook. Those poor spren!

I would delete Alethi from there, but yes, I never said she doesn’t have a negative view of the Blade. I just pointed out that… …and… …seem like two disparate reactions. She actually seems kind of confused in the second situation. Sure, it’s a negative view. She also has a negative view and very similar confusion on Kaladin killing, which physically hurts her and causes her to leave. Ah, ya...probably a poor choice of words. But 'surrounded by’ was referring to the Shattered Plains and all the Blades there, cause we know she goes around observing at least one other person, which is definitely outside Sadeas’ camp. Are you referring to the ending being the first time they are around a Blade? Dalinar might have been the first she saw because of following him around, but she saw Adolin's way before the end. But I agree, she was likely way too young/not around to take note of Amaram's new toy. I'm actually not sure what you mean. Do you mean Szeth's Blade?

Maybe not to the degree of Roshar...but there has at least been one other imbalance, Ruin and Preservation. What's interesting is that Odium chose not to push that advantage and to instead leave the people of Roshar to forget. The only thing I will add to the earlier discussion is...I think Szeth's blade is pretty much the only one that could be of Odium. Look at Syl's reaction to just hearing the name Odium. If she were surrounded by Blades that had been touched by Odium...she would be losing it. edit: b/c I routinely screw up spelling or tagging something.

Hmmmm...Could be that while Honor lived, Radiants had a perfect connection to him that facilitated an unending/ample supply of Stormlight for use in Surgebinding/Soulcasting. If the Almighty died and that connection was broken...you suddenly have hundreds, if not thousands of Radiants, that will have a limited ability to use Stormlight unless they're all suddenly extremely flush with spheres. That would be my first guess. OT: Ummm...never really voiced this before, but isn't it weird that the it's 'Veden City' and not current day 'Vedenar' but Alethi city is still 'Kholinar?' That means Dalinar can trace his lineage to rulers from before the fall of the Radiants. Baffles me how these people haven't kept accurate records, even within the family. edit: added a word

I'm not saying that he will die, just that BS said it's a possibility. Just because someone's book is still to come, doesn't mean they will survive until then. Transcribed from recording.

The problem is that BS already said that just because a book is 'dedicated' to a character, it doesn't mean they will survive until that book. He flat out said it at a recent signing, he explained that books 'dedicated' to a character are just their backstory, and that flashbacks are easily done after said character is dead.

Ohohohooo... that's a really good one. Though Kelsier's hate stemmed from personal stuff mostly. Still would be cool. I tend to prefer the theoretical discussions as well, way more fun. There wouldn't be fan forums without that. I would have to vote for Vin and anyone else in the cosmere. Vi from elantris would be a total bully combo, could be interesting to see them take on a government. I actually think Vin and Jasnah would be pretty funny, scholar and rebel. Actually, I'll probably add a little more after thinking about this. A little late and tipsy right now.

Got to go with Voidus and Droz here, and probably many others as well. But to back it up. Dalinar's Plate starts to glow a little bit like the KR of old when he is rescuing Elhokar from the Greatshell. Almost like an early version of Kaladin almost glowing when he's fighting the Shardbearer in the beginning. Probably a telling of something to come.

It's a very good observation. But we have WoB that the Almighty was still around when the Herald's broke the oathpact. Voidus Ummmm...while I would probably say that is the consensus of most people on these forums, that certainly isn't something that has been substantiated. I know I'm of the minority, but I've searched exhaustively and found nothing to change my view. (Not trying take punches at you, just seemed like you were maybe trying to inform the new guy of something that had been confirmed.)