Elwynn

I'll echo this same question. I don't think we've ever seen a Splinter have it's own pool. I'm also wondering about... ...where you get the idea Cultivation's (I'm assuming you mean her) cognitive aspect is gone. Honorspren were around before Tanavast died, so they don't have to be Splintered and gone for their spren to be a viable bond.

I've been contemplating what to say because, just wow...don't know where we got lost in translation, but the original stuff explaining it is at the bottom, and I'll just go through it all because I already hit the multiquote. I just...I can't even begin to understand what you thought I wrote. Lol Yes, those are both common knowledge things. I didn't reference anything outside of the book. No theory needed for what I was trying to say. Yes, the gem flashed, but Amaram was already a lighteyes. No evidence needed. Has nothing to do (with what we know at this point) with whether it's Odium or Honor or Cultivation. Original intention or mucked up messyness afterwards. That's fine if you believe that. But it's not confirmed at this point and still has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. I have no idea what radiantblades actually do. I was referring to the belief that Shardblades do, in fact, change your eye color. As is the common thoughts of several characters in the book. My point was that we have never actually seen this happen. Lol I just can't even follow what you're trying to express here. I'm not theorizing with you, I don't believe hereditary qualites from former Radiants have anything to do with this. I just...really have absolutely no clue what you're responding to. Let me put the original quote I responded to. The post I responded to suggested that we had actually seen someone pick up a Shardblade and have their eyes permanently change to a lighteyes. As is the myth with at least the culture of Alethkar; That if a darkeyes wins a Shardblade they will permanently become a lighteyes. Like Laral wanted Kal to do so they could marry when they got older. I was stating that we don't ever actually see any of this. That at this point it is just myth and legend to give darkeyes some hope. As opposed to actually seeing Szeth's eyes change and then revert back. Sorry for the long post going through everything, just obviously didn't phrase my post very well and wanted to be clear about what I was actually saying/asking.

Oooooo, I had totally missed the Skybreaker order confimation. Very cool. But the large=order and small=surge is nothing recent. Now I see what you're talking about with a 4th Shard, and I'd say it's possible, but I would lump the splitting hairs assessment on your side of things after a confirmation like that. Still nice to actually understand what you meant now. Bah, this is going to kill me all day now. Got to go search out any reference to how close...nevermind, found it. He does say Silence Divine planet is pretty close, so definitely not out of the realm of possibility.

Then he would probably be thinking the same thing towards Adolin if it was just the Old Magic, but he singles out Renarin. Not to mention they both already know he sought out the Old Magic and nobody in the room, including Navani, considers it anything even approaching an 'egregious sin.' However, being responsible for imposing a lifetime of blood weakness and ostracization on your own son could weigh fairly heavily on the mind of a father as an 'egregious sin.'

Whoa whoa whoa, we've seen? I realize it's entirely possible, but at this point it's just rumor and legend right? Disregarding any KR we see in Dalinar's visions (because things obviously worked differently back then), I'm pretty sure this is not confirmed to be anything more than legend. But please point me in the right direction if I'm completely forgetting something.

I'm not positive, but if I remember right (it has been a while), there was some talk about this in relation to Renarin because of pg. 859 in the hardback. Like I said, I'm not positive, but I think it was this.

Methinks I might have come off a little more condescending (read This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules-holish) than I meant to. Wasn't trying to belittle you guys or anything. Just trying to help point something out, figured you might have forgotten or something instead of not knowing about it. Sorry about that.

I'm really kind of curious how you read this... And then translated it into this... But for the rest, I absolutely love the harmonics notion and especially how you noted the changing of color going down the page. Very important on both diagrams it would seem. As for which KR order is which, I agree on some, just way too early to tell. I tend to think of Nalan'elin as the Skybreakers order simply because, well the guy has lightning behind his head! Which besides being cool, has me tending to think of that group as Skybreakers since we learned of them. Cool stuff though.

Or it could be...ya know, because Kelsier is a reckless psychopath in every literal sense that is bound to get involved in things and not care about doing the right thing to benefit the cosmere, like Hoid seems so absorbed in. I think it's more of Hoid having a strong dislike of Kelsier, and him just returning the sentiment.

Chef darn it! Watch who you call cook. Feelings are liable to get hurt. I should be finished by tomorrow so I'll go ahead and reserve judgement untill I'm done, but...ugh, I cannot fathom how this got so many rave reviews. Fantastic ideas and parallels in the story but it's all drowned out. I do have a little more than a hundred pages left, so maybe that will change. edit: SPOILERS Well, a couple weeks removed from finishing and I can appreciate a few things, I just had to wait because it was so disappointing. His magic system is well thought out and very engrossing. It's beautiful to actually see a revolution happening within the magic systems. The 'wave your hand and destroy mountains/wiggle your fingers and explode hearts' crowd has a seemingly inferior magic cabal to fear. Amazing dynamic between Privileged and Powder mages. Most novel approach to different magic systems interacting that I've read since sanderson. But I about pulled my hair out with each successive snort that Taniel took. After a while of no consequences and steady trance, it's just annoying. Really annoying. His writing surprised me. It really is pretty darn good. Far better than I expected of a new author. He tries a little too hard at times, but even then it doesn't hurt the fluidity of his prose at all. The chef is comedic gold, but you get the real sense of his heart in his actions. Tamas, oh Tamas, the guy is incredibly well done. Gritty and real, and I mean real. You can feel his indomitable will to actually do something for the people, and his frustration with every obstacle. The scene with him and the opposing general was simple, short, and incredible on both sides. Unfortunately everyone else is bleh. Pole is intriguing, but unfortunately she shares the screen with Taniel. Adamat and Nila were a waste of page space. Nila would have been far better served as a new viewpoint in book 2. Adamat...I seriously can't even talk about that. The magic is...cool at first, quickly overwrought, and plain annoying in the end. You have the knacked, then powder mages, the privileged, magebreakers, then the old privileged with more power who are still around, the gods on top of them, and pole seemingly somewhere between old school priv and gods. Not to mention, everyone turns out magical. In the end, my problem is that it's not a book. Not a single story is completed (or even hinted at coming close), theres a moment at the end where you think at least something was done by someone in the book....but NO, we're informed you can't actually kill a god. Seriously upset about reading 500 pages of nothing happening. You're back at the beginning, except there is a problem or two more, with not one that was introduced having been done away with. Except for maybe a little revenge for Tamas. Now I'm getting too heated about it all again and rambling on. No way in underworld would I even contemplate buying the second book.

It's like you guys get an idea in your head and forget WoB from interviews. There have only ever been three Shards on Roshar. Honor and Cultivation, followed some time later by Odium. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=836 Question 49.

Holy crap! We get a Taln interlude in WoR and Sazed plays a tangential role in the SA series. I'm squeeling. I need these books.

I'll be back to talk about it with you soon Kurk. I ordered it and it should be here in a day or two. Looking forward to reading it.

They are...I think. I just woke up and braves play in a little bit so I can't go fishing for it. But I think spren are to splinters as seons are to splinters. So it's likely something the spren have or have been given. Like the aons at the seons center being the actual splinter. And I think the key is that there are several different different kinds of spren, some around before Honor's fall, and some new ones later. Endowment has a circle of (re)life thing going on. Where splinters are given out and then used, the power returning to be used again, and most people think Endowment is still alive. So Honor could have done the same. I don't think you're wrong or that any of that is moot. Just seems to be a little confusion.

Welcome to the Cosmere! Try to forget the thought that Hoid is Odium, because it just isn't so. But don't worry, you'll definitely want to re-read WoK after you gobble up the rest of the Cosmere. It's vastly more rewarding (especially some of the epigraphs before each chapter). First and foremost, it doesn't really matter that much which order you read them. And you can always come here to pick up any nuances you've missed, and ask any questions you have. And in all honesty, if you enjoy him like we all do, you'll probably be reading certain sections/books multiple times. In my opinion, BS is probably the most rewarding author to re-read. He is a master of one-liners and hiding things in plain sight. But on to my recomendations... Mistborn 1. The Final Empire 2. The Well of Ascension (Hoid appears in this book, but is not specifically named.) 3. The Hero of Ages The mistborn series is the one that kind of broke the cosmere out of the shadows and gave us a whole heap of knowledge about it all. And it's just an amazing series to boot. It will give you a very good jumping off point to picking up everything. From there you have a couple of choices. Take the next few in any order you want really. If you are really enjoying the world and story go ahead and jump into...Mistborn: Alloy of Law. It's a few hundred years later but has some great treats that carry on several world building elements and even people from the original series. i.e. religions based off of very important events in the original series. If you're looking for a little break... Elantris would be my next suggestion. It's a very early work of his (actually his master's thesis), so the writing isn't as professionally oriented. Many people didn't like what was termed as the 'sanderson avalanche' which is an absolute crazy and I guess overwhelming climax for some people. Personally it was one of the things that drew me to him, I love it! You get some good knowlege about the groundwork he's creating for systematic development of all magic that perpetuates the Cosmere. Even more goodies come from annotations to the book and interview quotes he has given us. But you'll have to come back for those. If you enjoyed Elantris, I would recommend Emperor's Soul because it takes place on the same world. I would not recommend reading it before Elantris though. There aren't any spoilers in it, but there is an easter egg or two you can pick up about the world that identifies it as the same as Elantris. I won't bog you down with the different names of the planets, but come on back, we have those too! Emperor's Soul will give some really great metaphysical explanations for the way his worlds work. There are three planes of existence that permeate all the worlds, but you have plenty of time to learn about this stuff later and don't need any of it to thoroughly enjoy the book(s). If you're looking for something else, move on to Warbreaker. Warbreaker is beautifully imagined and wonderfully vibrant. It doesn't contain a heap of knowledge about the cosmere, but does have one or two very important things. And have no fear, Hoid is of course there (like all these books listed). That's it. Don't let any of it seem overwhelming, but keep a careful eye out at the same time, Sanderson is a foreshadowing master! And be sure to come back after every book is finished, there are seperate threads to help with any questions you have and won't contain any spoilers for the other books (be sure to finish the whole Mistborn series first though). Even Elantris and Emperor's Soul have seperated threads, so have no fear. And most of all...ENJOY! Sanderson's books are amazing. Can't wait to hear from you in the future. Now shoo! Get to reading.

This is correct. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2422-/page__view__findpost__p__44676

I didn't say anything about the first time she saw them, was just clarifying the two truth requirements with the Cryptics. Left the first the first time she saw them out b/c there was no interaction/no trip to Shadesmar. And I just re-read my post, oops, definitely didn't mean to make it seem like the goblet was the first thing talking her, but it sure reads that way. Cheese cleared it up and restated it nicely, thank you for that, would never have noticed otherwise. But that first time she drew the Cryptics, the one I left out b/c there was no interaction, I do believe there were a different number of them watching (she was sitting with Taravangian and Jasnah) than the second time, so I thought a couple were Jasnah's spren until we get to the end, where it's pretty clear she doesn't have the same ones. So that could lend a lot of credence to your (Cheese) thoughts on 10 types and having to bond with each of them. Which I think is a pretty great idea. I'm with Cheese on the goblet being the one to say, 'I can change.' Shallan's remarks on the voice make it seem like it is very different from the Cryptic's voice(s). Plus the "I can change...give me what you have..." and then it changes into blood. Seems enough for me. edit: spelling

I think I see what you're saying now, I'm not too sure myself about the problem solving aspect though, is that a planned subject to get into on your long form explanation in the other thread? There has actually been two truth requirements, which relates to the first time she entered Shadesmar (right before she fakes a suicide attempt). The first time was when she noticed them and started running away, re-drawing the scenes around her as she went to see if they were following(they were). She gets back to her rooms in Jasnah's quarters and backs up to the wall as they come closer and closer...and it seems that the voice in her head doesn't begin until one of them finally touches her. She freakes out and ends up putting her hand on the nightstand and a goblet full of spheres. It asks what she is...and she replies she terrified. So apparently a situational/emotional truth that exists in the moment is sufficient for them to take her there. Which would make it very hard to run out of truths. Because her hand is touching the goblet/chalice (I can't remember, all of this is heavily paraphrased), it begins talking to her (as a bead in Shadesmar she still holds in her hand). She changes it into blood, which many people here think points to her primary essence since it didn't seem to be a cognizant choice.

I love that series. But it's Coldfire trilogy for anyone who wants to look it up or read it. It's very good. The first half is pretty good, and pretty plausible too. I'd like to read more on the Rakh parallel you're refering to (which could be the spren or parshendi), it seems that is where it takes the largest leap of logic. Specifically how the spren manifested from cognitive interaction. We know the ones we've seen so far are of Honor or Cultivation, or some mixture of them, which I can't quite connect to the statement yet... ...but looking forward to reading your expanded version.

You are definitely right in that Dalinar has had several visions we're not privy to yet. But I'm a little confused why that would mean Honor couldn't die after the recreance. OP addresses it a little bit in that Honor shows Dalinar a vision of the True Desolation, which is most definitely in the future after Honor is long gone, and it feels like any other vision to Dalinar.

Nobody said they follow each other. Was just explaining why I don't personally think Cryptics are purely of Cultivation when truth would be harder to correlate with cultivation than with honor.

My first thought was that they are Cultivation's too, though I'm beginning to think they are either a mixture of Honor and Cultivation or only of Honor and Syl is actually the mixture. There seems to be argument among them of who gets to claim that title...http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=836...http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1999-writing-for-charity-interview/ The only reason I doubt Cryptics are solely from Cultivation is the requirement of truths. Truth would seem to be far easier to relate to Honor than Cultivation. And Cryptics were already cognizant of their abilities and what they can offer Shallan the first time she spoke to them, rather than having to 'grow' into it like Syl did. They could have been following her around for long while before that, but if they hadn't remembered anything, like Syl couldn't, you would think they would have spoken to her sooner with some questions of their own or something. They seem so drastically different from Syl, and I can't see them being only of Cultivation, so I'm really starting to think of them as the mixture of both that we've seen. It's possible Syl is the one mistaken though. *shrug* Dying to get WoR so we can learn so much more about spren.

No worries, you just reiterated exactly what I said. I was actually talking about their days being like 20 hours and their hours a couple minutes short of ours, Then went ahead and confused it all by refering to it being different from our year. But you're definitely right, I used to think something was wrong with Roshar's calendar, but you can't deny the weepings are like clockwork. Would give them a solid starting point.

On his reddit interview. You can probably search it out on this site since windrunner posted it, I think. Here's the link, but I suck at it, so sorry if it doesn't work. http://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/1a3fj0/discussion_of_the_week_shadesmar_truthspren/

BS has stated that Roshar has less gravity than we do, it's one of the things that helps chasmfiends grow so large with an exoskeleton/carapace (Besides the gemheart). Don't remember him saying anything about speed of light or such, but he has spoken about the rotation being different, hence the different year.