BenduLuke

Metal born abilities are affected by how pure the metals are which requires chemistry one branch of science. Then several metal abilities such as steel pushes are directly related to physical laws and so encourage an understanding of physics and momentum. Even Wax isn't quite sure why when he increases his weight he gets no appreciable increase in piercing resistance, but that could have more to do with the biological affect than the actual physical affect, meaning that biologically he has an uneven increase in density, and perhaps no increase in water density which makes up the largest component of his body. the balance is that Ruin's power can save but only by taking greater power from somewhere or someone else. A hemalugic spike which gives gold-f would be less effective than a gold ferring with the same ability and would require possibly killing someone to charge the spike. I didn't start meeting other Luke's until about 10 years after Starwars so I always think its great that I am not alone in the world. As you may be able to guess I was Luke before Skywalker. One piece of trivia Luke means Bringer of Light.

If there is an anti adolnalsium tone then there is a tone that blocks all investiture otherwise you are in need of at least 16 different anti tones. Hazekillers do have specific tech and techniques. Roshar's anti shardbearer techniques are medievally based until RoW and now we may start to see more advanced tactics, but not weapons yet. Sorry yeah I got Copper and brass mixed. You would need a different Nicrosil metalmind for each invested ability or source just like you need a different Tin metalmind for each sense. It is the Fering that determines what ability is stored not the invested source. Nocrosil is a metalmind that can store just about anything and the ferring decides which attribute or investure within their access to store and how. I can see I wasn't clear about what I said about aluminum. the incendiary aluminum bullets don't just touch the shardplate. Even if the bullet itself doesn't penetrate directly the high temperatures of the incendiary chemicals do and those same chemicals also produce temperatures to ignite the aluminum. So the armor, and the knight are pierced by the aluminum and it is burning as well. Both being pierced by aluminum (hemalugically removes all investiture) and burning aluminum (alchemically neutralizes investiture) would be both disabling and potentially deadly to a KR. To make sure decapitation through a produced gap in the armor with an aluminum alloy blade would finish the job. Right now no one has FTL and we cannot be sure even spanreeds communicate faster than light so definitely table the idea of FTL communication. Investiture only provides an additonal power source the underlying laws of the Cosmere still mirror our own. Even investiture application is limited by the same general laws we have so understanding the underlying physical laws does provide an advantage and more stable technology and Scadrial is much further progressed at this time. So much so that Scadrians could reverse engineer Stormlight tech, but Rosharan's would have great difficulty reverse engineering Scadrian Tech. I do understand those equations and the Wiki equations are why Relativity and Quantum Physics don't mix. There is not such thing as a state of zero energy, zero mass for any physical object in the universe so any thing accelerated through space toward the speed of light does increase in mass. Yes those were simple explainations but they were also accurate as far as they went. I never said the Skybreaker soulcast someone else did, but even so increasing O2 to cause a massive failure of the gun powder would require a knowledge of chemistry for when someone does try that argument in context. Even using division on the air to cause it to burn after failing on the armor is a stretch and the direct physical attack is far more likely. It is the Ferrring that divides the attributes not the metal used when a metal can contain multiple attributes such as Tin or Nicrosil. The increased resistance to piercing damage is implied as Wax rips through the floor without so much as a scrape on his exposed skin. He is the reason the others avoided that because he cleared the way. Perhaps he even had some of that durability left since he didn't break bones when he landed or Wayne landed on him. If you could find the anti-harmony tone you could presumably block feruchemy if all feruchemy operates on the same tone, but not necessarily allomancy or hemalurgy since they are from preservation and ruin respectively and so to be totally countered would need the preservation or ruin tones. That all discounts that each metal has its own unique rhythm indicating that there is not one tone, but a full scale of tones to account for. Stormlight is all at the same tonal value and Voidlight is at another. Lyft was affected not because they were corrupting stormlight but were corrupting the Sybling who operates on Sybling light (a combination of stormlight and lifelight), but she would likely have been unaffected by the device that nullified Kal since she operates on Lifelight. Venli will probaly need anti-warlight to be fully nullified. Counting on Rosharan Fabrials may be premature now that Navani knows it may be ethically bad to imprison Spren so may have to start from scratch to find a more ethically viable way to accomplish the same "tech". It has been stated there is baseline at which metal arts wont get diluted past which is at the era 2 level of misting, ferring, twinborn. I was only trying to present a scenario that could happen at this time. Rosharan's can't leave Roshar right now. Scadrian's (yes because of the Ghostbloods most likely) could become aware of Roshar's warlike intentions. Scadrial knows the effects of Aluminum on investiture and knows they might need someone with a wide range of physical abilities to send that won't be handicapped by the aluminum directly. (External Aluminum armor and weapons don't affect internal allomancy and feruchemy). Skybreakers are likely on the warlike side, and are KR's so have those advantages common to all KR's thus the antagonist. The Skybreaker never actually hit the armor with their shardblade, they struck the hardened rifle. The agent had feruchemical strenth, speed, healing, resiliance, reflexes, resistance, and alertness from storing alchemical pewter into their metalminds over a period of time as the traveled to Roshar. That would be enough to match and exceed any physical ability a KR might have with potentially some to spare and could be replenished by burning or flaring more pewter for a relatively short period of time thus the protagonist. (Protagonists always get plot armor). Seriously though feruchemically tapped abilities have been shown to be some of the most extreme abilities in the cosmere for the length of time they last, and when you fill those same abilities alchemically there is an enormous supply to tap either for extended use or instant access or somewhere in-between. Both experienced failure on their initial attack, but the Agent had the versatility in their abilities and armaments to change tactics more quickly and effectively and so prevailed. There was also no tale tale glow to give away that the Agent was invested, but that was all to obvious with the Radiant so the agent knew they needed anti magic tactics and weaponry.

I suspect that suppressing metalic arts would be much more complicated than suppressing light magic. Just like matter is more complex than energy. Not sure what evidence you think indicates there is an all blocking tone? I suspect that inquistiors would be a major challenge for Radiants and have a good chance of beating almost any Radiants. Scadrian Tech is geared toward combating metalborn which is why 8 people had a chance against Kel. Once exposed I suspect that Scadrian's would develop Anti-Radiant tech as well so regular people would have a chance. Roshar is only just starting to develop anti radiant tech. Not sure what you mean by your f-Nicrosil and f-copper comment. f-copper could probably store heat from a-pewter as pewter arms are not affected much by cold. A-Pewter seem like a universal internal physical donor, and F-Nicrosil seems like a universal investiture receiver making it the most versatile feruchemical metal of all. F-Tin is a universal sensory receiver. Aluminum containing projectiles piercing the armor not just touching it which is what the aluminum incendiary projectiles would do and does produce the effect of inhibiting stormlight in the region. I thought that was clear if someone took the time to think about it before responding. Thanks for having me clarify. Fabrials are no replacement for physical technology and the understanding that comes from it so will always be at a disadvantage to Scadrial if they never gain an understanding of the physical universe. Where Scadrians with an understanding of physical science will understand why Fabrials act as they do and will be able to find many ways to reverse engineer it exceed their effects beyond just trapping Spren. By your own argument that Roshar will never have advanced physical tech you have admitted that Roshar will always be at a fundamental disadvantage to Scadrial. It really isn't earth tech since it has a Scadrian magic component.

It seems to me that each world accesses a different aspect of investiture. Roshar seems to involve accessing the magic through conjuration and binding spirit entities to empower them and so are limited to nature and elements of those spirits. It appears to access the most raw power but it also seems the least versatile. Nalthis seems to operate through chromatic necromancy enchantment. (It steals life to power magic channeled through color to enchant things) It is limited to how much life has been stolen or given with color as a focus. Sel seems to operate through symbolic evocation. limited to the accuracy of the symbols and location of the evocation. The sybolic evocation can also create enchantments. Scadrial seems to operate through alchemy and is limited to the focus provided by the attributes of the metals their alloys and interactions between the shards on them. It appears to be the most versitile and grounded with the potential for the most and least powerful abilities depending on the situation. This magic also seems to lend itself to scientific discovery more so than any other. I am not sure of Taldain's analog yet as I am not very familiar with White Sand.

In the scenario I presented there were no blunt force attacks that impacted the armor the fight ended before that. F-Pewter only stores strength so the A-Pewter is already being separated and most of it discarded. F-Steel could store the Pewter speed. So A-Pewter is separateable just like senses are. In addition A-Pewter is a form of investiture so likely could be stored by F-Nicrosil unless stated otherwise. The situation was someone tapping A-Pewter abilities Feruchemically so the potential physical abilities could be even greater than Flaring Pewter or even Duralumin Pewter burning. No one has yet been shown to have that much physical ability with stormlight yet. With regards to Oxygen content are you saying that a Rosharan would suffocate on Scadrial? If not the effect would be negligible with regard to firearms except to improve their efficiency some. With regard to converting stormlight I thought it was an interesting idea proposed indirectly by someone else not that I said it could be used that way. Just something to consider. Since tin-a can be split, it implies that abilities of other allomantic metals with multiple effects can be split. Pewter could be used to fill F-Steel, F-Pewter, F-Gold F-Bronze and maybe even F-brass (to some extent), so why not have the various physical investiture enhacements split into F-Nicrosil Like F-Tin can store Senses from other metals and split A-Tin senses into separate metalminds tappable individually, or in combination. Ghostbloods could have tipped off the Scadrian government in an effort to broaden and expand operations with less direct involvement while still supplying some covert support. Besides at this point and current state of the Cosmere the engagement would need to be on Roshar to enable the abilities of both to be available to them and it would likely need to be a Scadrian having a conflict with someone in Odiums forces thus Skybreaker. Much of Scadrian's Tech is magic independent and counter magical vs Roshar's Tech being magic dependent. So even without magic Scadrian's are still a serious threat to Rosharans. The reason I believe this is the case is that Scadrian magic is more firmly based in the physical world than Roshar's. I also suspect that there isn't an all blocking Scadrian magic tone, that you would need one for each metal and application. On the other hand Scadrial once they realize the potential of Anti-Light have a magical means to detect and synthesize it in Bronze-A working with Scadrian scientists or if they are physicists themselves. In addition they might have the ability to be precise in which surges to suppress. With regard to velocity increasing mass here are some references. https://www2.lbl.gov/MicroWorlds/teachers/massenergy.pdf Mass, Energy, the Speed of Light— It’s Not Intuitive! https://futurism.com/why-do-objects-increase-in-mass-as-they-get-faster-2 Why do Objects increase in mass as they get faster? So present a scenario where the Skybreaker sets the air on fire before he gets shot out of the sky and fails in his attempt to set the agent on fire because he didn't initially realize that the Agents armor is resistant to division. It is also unlikely that the chemically ignorant Rosharan would think to soulcast O2 for burning to try and counter the firearms at this time. Pewter allomancy is investiture thus is storeable and since Tin-a can be split so can Pewter-a. Aluminum would negate the investiture of the plate at the impact sight as well as the person and these were K-Mg-Al incendiary rounds used to create a breach even with minimal to no gap. In addition the finishing stroke was with a sharpened, hardened, aluminum alloy blade powered by Feruchemically tapped Pewter strength (meaning there was allot available to tap). I just finished AoL again and Wax grabbed Marsai dragging her down with him while tapping massive weight and crashed through the floor then flipping on top of her to shield her while storing weight pushing on floor nails to slow their fall and finally having a heavy weight land on him which was Wayne who took the brunt of the explosion on his back. Wax is why Marisai wasn't injured and Wayne is why Wax wasn't burned.

Those might be plot points but they are nowhere near actualization at this point, and I don't think Ishar or any of the Heralds were around for the planet breaking surges, that came much earlier. At this point Rosharans can't access their magic anywhere else. Odium took thousands of years to create the everstorm it had nothing to do with Rosharan tech, it wasn't even singer tech. In addition Oaths are not tech. When we compare Rosharan and Scadrian magic systems we are comparing Summoning (conjuration) magic with Alchemical magic respectively. As such one of the weaknesses to Summoning magic is counter the spirits or demons you counter the magic, but there isn't anti alchemy. At this point any Rosharan attack on Scadrial would be without magic, but any incursion from Scadrial on Roshar would have full access to their magic and technology since they both work everywhere. It is a mistake to assume Scadrial has not military just because that is not highlighted yet. Roshar does not have planet crackers yet either, but Scadrial does have tech to counter all of Roshar's magical abilities already. Yes as you fall toward the surface of a planet or star your mass increases. There isn't observer bias in this. Marasi was dragged through the floor on top of Wax so he took the force of his crashing through the floor then he flipped over and drastically reduced mass as they fell to prevent them being crushed and to shield her which is why she wasn't injured. The discrepancy with Wax's statement is in regard to his perception not the reality, and as for Brandon he has yet to actually address the extremes of Iron-F, but on the scales he has used it the effects have been consistent with what he has stated so far. The Thugbearer is Ideally equipped to deal with virtually any type of investiture in general because of Scadrian Tech and material magic science not for knowledge of what that investiture could do. Yes I am assuming that Soulbearers can store any form of investiture including kinetic since at this point the description says so. I am also projecting based on how Windwhisper feruchemy works to divide senses that the Soulbearer would also be able to do that though as you seem to have noticed that is technically unnecessary. Some alloys of Aluminum are stronger than hardened steel and Shardblades ability to cut is dependent on investiture in the blade providing the edge, but Aluminum alloys cannot be cut by investiture. In the Aluminum coppermind it does say the alloys do have the effect of it on things like invested healing. You may note that in the scenerio I created the Agent saw that the shardplate was resistant to damage on the first shot as well as seeing some degree of physical strength in the knight. Remember Pewter comes with a degree of increased speed, reflexes, balance, durability, and healing along with the strength and if tapped feruchemically as it was provides for necessary reaction speed and accuracy to counter the knight. There must be a gap between helmet and armor or the knight wouldn't be able to turn their head or look around. It would be small but bullets aren't large and a person with pewter enhanced abilities would have the accuracy to take advantage of it. Oh and the knight would be surprised that the Agent's armor is resistant to his surges and shardblade. Alright in order for this fight to take place where both have access to their magical abilities at this point it has to take place on Roshar, and the most likely group to initiate an attack are Odium's forces. Since at this time we know that Skybreakers are part of that I started with one of them who is at the highest imaginable level we are aware of. No I didn't address how or where the agent got onto Scadrial, but it could just as easily been through an oath gate under some circumstances. No he doesn't need to be weakened, he just needs to have been burning pewter during his trip and storing those investiture enhanced abilities during his trip. Pewter burns slow so he could store allot of enhanced abilities over the trip. Not F-steel, A-Pewter speed along with all the other pewter enhanced abilities. Soulbearers are F-Nicrosil. Thugbearer is a combinations A-Pewter F-Nicrosil. Yes his weapons are aluminum. No the aluminum armor blocks the investiture the Agent might possibly absorb from any stormlight surges. (Thanks for the idea that a Soulbearer might be able to convert investiture used against him into fueling their allamantic abilities if any). No he is running off the stored investiture from his pewter. He doesn't need to know what a Skybreaker is because his pewter enhanced abilities would enable him to react to the Skybreaker effectively. Extra Oxygen would actually make the firearms more effective and increase his native physical abilities. I know that because having lived in the high mountains most of my life when I went traveled to an area at sea level I had much more energy and endurance than normal because of the higher Oxygen levels. Oh and cartridges from Scadrial still have Scadrian atmosphere in them because cartridges are air tight. The difference would also not be substantial enough to cause explosions either. Look we wont actually know what the time differences are until the two planets cross paths so all we can go on is what the most recent information on each is. No we really don't have stark industries at Urithiru, but we might be close to that somewhere on Scadrial. Scadrial is industrial, and Roshar is not. Actually it would be more like Edison's labs on Scadrial, and on Roshar more like Davinci's studio though perhaps at a slightly lower level of Technology. Navani and her scholars don't have chemistry basis on which to reverse engineer firearms or explosives, but reverse engineering the fabrial tech would be easy with the technomagical science of Scadrial. The singers with no tech learned to capture spren on which all fabrial tech is based. Stormlight isn't a problem since it is renewed each Highstorm. Cataloging gem effects to duplicate fabrials not difficult for Scadrian tech. Scadrial has a much more comprihensive understanding of metals so would quickly outpace what Rosharan fabrials could do.

Of course i can because that is how it is described in the book which I just finished again. No Vin's shear power changed as she ascended. Wax pushes maybe 10 times force compared to weight for example. When he weighs 200 lbs he for example pushes with 2,000 lbs of force (I actually think it is more). Vin for example started out with 15 times her force to weight, but as she ascended her force per weight increased exponentially. The expense is why it was the government that equiped the agent knowing the potential investiture countering properties of Aluminum alloy since they don't know what the agent will be facing. If the Set could afford to equip 60+ men with aluminum arms, then the government can fully equip one agent. The agent only handled one Knight when he couldn't avoid it. Present the hypothetical situation where the agent faces a bondsmith (at a disadvantage in combat alone) who is at the current level. I think Dalinar is at the 2nd or 3rd oath, and we don't know what it will mean at the 4th oath beyond him maybe having shardplate, but he wont have a shardblade and may never get shardplate. Stormfather told him combat is not where he will excel on his own. He opens a perpendicularity and the Agent stores the investiture for himself for his own use. The aluminum armor would block the attempt to steal connection from the agent as well. Oh and we haven't seen what is possible on Scadrial yet either. By the way I picked a Skybreaker on purpose since they as a group are on Odium's side at this point with one exception.

Oh they would store it all just separate it into different metalminds, but if they must store all the ability together then imagine the effect of tapping that same storage since Feruchemically they could tap all of the stored pewter enhancement almost at once. Imagine an hours worth of Pewter flaring tapped in 5 minutes. Healing off the charts, strength to level almost anything, Enhanced endurance to handle throwing those punches, finally with the speed, reflexes, and balance to be all but untouchable. A person like this could be storing pewter abilities almost constantly almost without the risk of pewter drag, and tap that at will, but without the increased size since it is pewter allomancy strength not feruchemical strength tapping.

I guess I didn't explain myself well. Holding or wearing something or pushing on something above you does increase your weight, but only until you release it so it is only temporarily a part of you. I do agree that it wont count toward weight that can be stored. No it is a physical fact that increases in velocity equal increases in mass. As you fall into a black hole you do become more massive, for that matter as you fall toward the earth your mass also increases just not by much. Only once your acceleration is halted does mass stabilize like when you are standing on the ground or in a set orbit around earth. The observer effect has to do with relativistic time. Even then as your velocity through space increases your velocity through time decreases. All things in the universe travel at the speed of light, but why we don't realize it is because most of that velocity is through the dimension of time not space. The wood of the floor that Wax crashed through in his home would have caused scrapes, cuts, and other such injuries if he didn't have some degree of greater resistance to piercing damage even if he didn't realize that happened. He already suspected that his bones and muscles were stronger to deal with the extra weight and when he has been shot he hasn't tapped enough weight to make a noticeable difference in the bullets penetration. It is also logical that bones which are denser than tissue increase density proportionally faster as Wax increases weight. Wax was applying enough force below him to hold up his building amount of weight as the building collapsed beneath him also because of his weight that was 10's of thousands of times greater than moments before. That weight amplified his push by potentially 100's of thousands of times for the short time he held it. His proportional pushing strength compared to his weight remained the same. Vin, when she demolished Credic Shaw, her pushes themselves increased in power due to her ascending because of the mist. In comparing Rosharan magic vs Scadrian magic the only place where Radiants have any chance of winning at this time is on Roshar, whereas at this time Scadrian's magic can operate on any planet in the Cosmere at this time. So any conflict between them would need to take place on Roshar. A likely scenario would be if Era 2 Scadrial got wind of a potential buildup of a Rosharan invasion force. Not knowing what they could be facing in the future when Roshar overcomes their system quarantine the Scadrian government sends a highly trained Thugbearer to scout out Roshar. To be prepared they arm him or her with aluminum alloy armor and weapons including revolvers, a carbine, bayonet and muscle powered vehicle like a bike since fuel could be an issue. The agent would be supplied with haze killer and aluminum ammunition to fit their firearms, and the firearms would be of the same caliber for simplicity sake most likely along the lines of a .44 caliber like old west rifles and pistols. They also provide the agent with an ample supply of pewter and Nicrosil bands both internal and external. The directive would be to infiltrate Roshar, assess capabilities, weapons, and tactics, and return with the intelligence. As they travel to Roshar they take the opportunity to fill their metal minds with pewter enhanced abilities. The agent reaches a Radiant base without detection, but as they attempt to observe they get detected by a 4th ideal Skybreaker who attempts to intercept them summoning full plate and blade. With only the 2 of them there and the Skybreakers obviously hostile intention the Thugbearer sets his bayonet, taps agility, and fires a thug round which bounces off the chest of the armor. The Skybreaker attempts a ranged division attack meant to burn off the armor but to his surprise the armor repels it. Tapping speed the Thugbearer quickly changes rounds to incendiary rounds, and tapping agility again targets the Skybreakers armor joints striking him in the shoulder. With a massive flare from the round the Skybreaker is knocked from the sky with a burning wound to the bone. He sees the Skybreaker get up radiating wisps of light and in moments is healed. The Skybreaker lashes himself forward at high speed to attack with his shardblade, but the Soulbearer taps massive strength and blocks the attack with his bayonet but the carbine gets damaged, then with Feruchemical speed and strength he repulses the Knight, draws a revolver and with enhanced agility fires the aluminum incendiary round into the gap between helmet and armor dropping the knight with yet another explosive round only this time the area is not healing. As the Skybreaker tries to deal with the intense burning pain without healing the thugbearer takes his bayonet and decapitates him. He walks away back to his observation post to get a shovel to hide the knights body while he burns pewter to renew his metal mind and resumes observing the potential enemies. Scadrial 1 Roshar 0. because of better tech and comparable abilities in a situation where they are equally unaware of the others advantages at the beginning.

Thanks for the feed back.

It really isn't speculation that if you increase weight in the same volume without increasing gravity you increase density and mass and eventually with near unlimited weight available you would become more resistant to damage just like Wax when he crashed through a floor or totaled an entire building using his weight. Wax took thousands of hours to have access to that kind of weight, but an Iron compounder could store it in minutes to a few short hours. Truthfully it also appears to me that an Iron compounder could potentially be stronger and more durable than a Pewter compounder though perhaps not pound for pound.

yes that is why she had powerful seeker abilities and could pierce copper clouds, but in the end her innate connection to preservation made her allomancy pound for pound stronger. Most inquisitors were seekers first and their other advantages came from the limited Feruchemy they had access to. Even under TLR they all had some Feruchemy such as Gold. As for Steel and Iron that was skill not strength that enabled them to see even trace metals by necessity. Because most of their power came from Hemalurgy it was innately weaker except where it overlapped their native allomancy.

A thug's allomancy to enhance their physical abilities is their innate investiture and so could potentially be stored in part or in whole in a Nicrosil-F Just like any sense can be stored in Tin. The healing effects of Pewter could also be stored in Gold-F, and the speed could be stored in Steel-F, just not to the degree a compounder could do it. A full Feruchemist could be both a Soulbearer and Gasper, but no Ferring would ever have both abilities without Hemalurgy or medalions. A soulbearer could be a pulser though. There might be times you want only one or two of the physical abilities or might want to tap different levels of the physical abilities so storing the attributes separately would be useful.

Pushing on something above you would increase your weight because you are adding to your weight just as if you stepped onto a scale with a bar bell, the weight just doesn't belong to you permanently. Mass does change with velocity since as you approach the speed of light your mass approaches infinity exponentially. Ironically not only does a person have greater weight at the surface of the earth compared to orbit, but they have greater mass if fractionally so. No Wax flattened the building above the vanisher tunnel by tapping all his stored weight and pushing on every piece of metal in the building. He was as heavy as a building himself at the time in AoL. The idea that his density doesn't increase when he taps massive weight is contradicted by the fact in the same book that he crashes through a floor and later brings down a building without so much as a scratch resulting from it. Perhaps his stated experienced can be explained by parts of his body increasing in density at much different rates, such as bones being most affected, then muscles, then tissues, then skin, then water, and finally air least. I don't remember the water tower scene perhaps when I get there I will comment on it. I do know that to smash a building he tapped thousands of hours of stored weight, so perhaps he didn't have that amount stored yet. The bracing allows for maximum push or pull at a persons current weight and people are not that different in weight comparatively speaking. They may have different degrees of connection to allomancy though meaning that they may have different multipliers to their weight, but Vin was still limited to what she could anchor to when in a pushing contest. Wax on the other hand could use his multiplier proportionally to his weight. To use another concept. Each coinshot or lurcher has an individual constant they could apply to their pushes and or pulls, but a twin born with Iron-F can change their constant to a variable by changing their weight. Most allomancers may be able to push at about 8-10 times their weight, Vin maybe 11 or 12 times her weight or perhaps a little more. Wax can push at maybe 10 times his weight, but his weight is variable so when he is 200 lbs he has a 2,000 lb push, but when he is 20,000 lbs his push is 200,000 lbs like when he smashed a building. As strong as the inquisitors were they were not that much more massive than Vin and her raw allomancy had a greater multiplier so she might have been dealing with inquisitors of 1 1/2 to 2 times her mass that had 5/6 of her potential power so their mass made them marginally stronger and more able to stand their ground with less of an anchor.

It isn't about hitting the wall with a feather but about a constant increase of pressure on the wall. It doesn't matter how strong the wall is eventually the pressure will overwhelm it.

Pushing something above you does increase weight because you are adding at least some of its weight, but I also doubt that the additional weight could be added to the metalmind from it because it is not attached to the persons spiritweb. Still it made for an interesting thought experiment. Same problem with transfering speed from fast moving vehicles, but tranfering speed though ones allomancy wouldn't suffer the same problem so a steelrunner might be able to benefit from several allomantic abilities. Mass increases by Energy divided by the speed of light squared. m=E/c^2. The units of E are (kg*m^2)/s^2. Mass is never really at rest. Any increase in velocity increases mass, but not measurably until you are traveling appreciable %'s of the speed of light. Weight is mass times gravity or acceleration. Enough speed increases detectable mass, but any additional speed increases mass some. It is measurable with our tech in fighter jets and rockets at super sonic speeds, and maybe even in formula 1 race cars at near top speeds. It is in the definition of the effects of both A-Iron & A-Steel that greater weight produces stronger pulls and pushes respectively. Please don't confuse Vin's talent and innate power with what her power would have been if she had more mass/weight. Pound for pound she had stronger allomancy, but her allomancy would have been even stronger if she had been more massive. Both Iron and Steel twinborn coumpounders would have much more effective allomancy than their mistborn or misting counterparts due to the weight or speed respectively at the time of their pull or push. Both mass and speed can add to the potency of allomantic pushes and pulls by definition. Both Vin and Kel needed external anchors to maximize their Iron/Steel talents, but were still limited to their innate pushes provided by their mass and the speed they could generate. Both an Iron and Steel compounders have near unlimited potential power in their pushes and pulls limited only by the amount of Weight and Speed they can Tap from their metal minds. In other words the metal minds don't just provide ballasting but actual force available to the allomancer.

I was going off the numbers someone else presented times 10. Exactly when changing directions is when the full G forces are applied. If a Windrunner threw an immediate 15 lashes in one direction they would likely knock themselves out and potentially kill themselves except for their healing factor. Pilots trained to withstand G forces withstand those forces for only seconds. Eventually as the force is increased tissues separate, that is the effect of the medieval Rack, and Drawing and quartering someone. So yes force over time is sufficient if not as spectacular as what Kal did. Soulbearers store investiture seemingly without restriction. Why couldn't you store the various physical surges provided by Pewter separately and once stored they are available to be tapped when desired Feruchemically. You don't even need to store the full investiture provided by flaring pewter so you could both be burning pewter for the increased physical abilities and storing at the same time. Since pewter burns slow one could be almost constantly burning it and storing without experiencing the effects of reduced normal abilities. Soulbearers seem to work more like Windwhisper only on a much broader scale. Windwhisper can and do store senses in separate metalminds and are not restricted to just the normal 5 senses, but if they are seekers could store allomancy sense and any other sense potentially provided by what ever allomancy they have above and beyond the normal 5. Soulbearers could seemingly incorporate any allomantic ability in their metalminds.

This is also the only forum that I am not only active in but enrolled in. I thought you meant another part of this forum. Since the stated mechanics of compounding are that a person can store an attribute in their metalmind then burn that metalmind to amplify the attribute through allomancy and store that amplified amount back into a metalmind that can be burned to again multiply the attribute we can project the massive density increase that Iron compounding would produce if it follows the stated compounding rules. By necessity that means it will affect penetration, but that affect has not been observed yet because of the limits regular ferring and feruchemists have had up to this point. Weight seems like it has been treated as a mildly useful attribute to store by characters in mistborn so far which would explain why it has not been explored to the limit. If density increases proportionally to densities in the body that would also explain why tissues seem to have no appreciable change in overall density and thus resistance to piercing force until reaching much greater extremes of weight. It would also explain the hand waving and seeming contradictions.

Here is another category of Twinborn that could be intriguing. Consider Soulbearers combined with almost any type of Allomancer. A Thugbearer (Soulbearer thug twin) could have feruchemically enhanced strength, reflexes, agility, healing, resistance, and speed stored from burning pewter that could be used all together, in any combination, or individually. They would seem like a bloodmaker, a brute, or a steelrunner, depending on what the situation required. Because they would be storing the attributes from Allomancy they would have massive reserves available on demand that could be tapped at rates exceeding flared pewter. With martial training they could be incredible combatants.

Since the blue lines are a spiritual connection to the metal then creating lashings using them in my mind would be possible. A tin twin windwhisper paired with either lurcher or coinshot could potentially store that metal sense in their metal mind and use that to direct the lashing without burning Steel or Iron at the time in that instance. Velocity does increase mass but only becomes noticeable at relativistic speeds. Do you think the steelrunner could store some of the speed of the jet? Of course a steelrunner could tap any stored speed to increase their reaction time in situations. If an allomantic push counts as additional weight then so would an allomantic pull on metal beneath a skimmer further magnifying the Iron compounding.

That is an increase in velocity of 73 meters every second it lasts. Gold's healing is actually blocked in a volume around aluminum. The more aluminum the larger the volume. in other words it interferes with invested healing. G's indicates acceleration measured in vector units of gravity. 10 G's of acceleration is at or near the limit of human surviveability for a very short period of time measured in seconds. Windrunners who change direction suddenly have been shown to nearly pass out. The force of 1,000 m/s could probably rip anyones head off and would probably only take 15 lashes over a period of 10 seconds or less. It also means you may only need to apply force over a longer time period.

An average of twice as much density caused by twice as much weight may not increase everything the same amount. it could cause a greater density increase in the bones for support with lesser density in the tissues and finally very little density in the skin with no density increase in the water that is most of the body. So over all the density increase would seem negligible. What we do have to establish Iron twinborn density are the rules for compounding in general. Miles a Gold compounder had nearly unlimited health, and Steel compounding has been stated to provide nearly unlimited speed, so we can expect Iron to provide nearly unlimited density/mass/weight and the potential consequences of that given that strength both structural and muscle scales to handle it. What other forum would you recommend?

Brandon in other articles has said that in era 2 no one has developed their skill to the point where they can detect trace metals, and that the ability was extremely rare in era 1, totally necessary for inquisitors. In addition investiture of the person themselves restricts bloodbending on them, but not nessisarily in the immediate area. The amount of metal in what is pushed also limits the amount of the push as well. You're right it isn't clear what the resonances and savant consequences are Iron and Steel yet. Wax may be nearing savanthood in both Iron and Steel with how much he uses them. He is starting to use them as one power or together subconciously. Perhaps in the next book his skill and experience with the Bands will cause him to notice trace metals around him in both people and the environment. He may also start noticing the negative effects of his emerging savantism. I wonder if Wax could effectively increase his weight by pushing on metal above him and storing the additional weight as a means of rapidly restoring his metal minds to full capasity?

it could also be that mass is added from the spirit realm. Regardless whether the body knows the mass has increased it must have, or their relative strength wouldn't increase proportionally to handle the effects of the increased weight, or getting through the barrier between body and air that provided the magical effect would itself provide resistance to penetration and likely to a much higher degree. With regard to storing weight there is a lower limit, but with compounding there is almost no upper limit to the amount of density. 1/1000th of a persons weight would be 1/10th of a lb to 3/10th's of a lb approximately for an adult, and there would be diminishing returns with regard to how much difference in density the change in weight makes. A compounder could store that same 1/1,000 of their weight for 1 minute and allomantically turn that into 1,000 x that same weight for 1 minute in less than 7 minutes of burning and storing weight. Wax must have had some benefit in durability when he tapped virtually his entire store to smash through a floor without any injuries. Normally ferings don't tap anywhere near their limit in such a short time. Sazed used his total storage over an extended period but didn't come anywhere near what his one time mass could have been. That is what leads me to believe that the limit to density and thus durability potentially provided by Iron tapping a compounder could achieve have yet to be observed because of the limit to the amount of weight a regular Iron fering can actually store. That limit is restricted to the persons own weight, percent they are storing, and the length of time they are storing it. By definition with any amount of stored weight that can provide the seed for the acquisition of a near infinite amount of weight for almost a limitless amount of time. With that much available to tap the rules for damage resistance that are evident to ferings would be thrown out the window. The safe limit to instant density would be the surface strength of what they are standing on and the strength of what is available to spread the weight out on through pulls. The same Iron compounder would have virtually no limit while in free fall. Under the right circumstances they themselves could exert gravity as well as being able to pull on metals. On a related topic one of the limits to steel compounders would be the escape velocity of the planet they are on. Once they reach escape velocity their feet will certainly leave the ground.

We have evidence in BoM that they can be. and Wax does show indications of becoming Savant. It isn't about power as in brute force but skill and or spiritual connection. are you so confident your right that you don't take the time to research what you don't agree with? I know that I usually research things that people tell which contradict how I think they work like I did this time.