BenduLuke

I haven't got my hands on First of the Sun yet. Hoid is an exception in all the books, he is practically a shard. Skin doesn't seem like a good analogy in this case more like it is the connective portion of the body to the outside world and the body is the Identity, which the heart is part of. SotD 2 ?

Not sure auto heal is necessarily the term I would use more like restore or reboot with Feruchemy and cleanse with Allomancy. I picked up my understanding of Identity and Aluminum across several articles over the last several months since joining. Recently someone suggested that what I was envisioning would potentially work if I replaced Identity with Spiritweb, but when I looked up spiritweb right in the opening paragraph it refereed to the boundaries of a persons spiritweb are their Identity. That would mean that a persons physical, cognative, connections, and personality, experiences, skills, talents or in other words everything a person is are contained within their Identity. As such it is always changing with new experiences and such. No one and nothing remains stagnant so Identity changes over time. Connections are logically overlaps between 2 Identities and are also fluid changing over time. I saw someone comment that Radiants would leave Roshar, and I have assumed that is the case, but with some of the restrictions placed on cognative travel from Roshar I realized I am not sure if that is actually the case. I know there are groups trying to enable it like the ghostbloods, but I am not sure where it might say or imply that it will be the case. With Scadrial Brandon has said they will get FTL travel and thus will be able to bridge to various worlds within the physical realm. Just because some people like Hoid can travel from place to place within the CR I don't think that nessisarily implies that is plausible for almost anyone else. One restriction I know of is that when people attempt to transport stormlight off system it increases in mass like someone is attempting FTL travel in our universe. I am not even sure the Ghostbloods on Roshar are actually from another planet just in contact with others from off System. You seem knowledgeable. Where does it imply or suggest that Radiants might leave Roshar before Scadrial bridges the gap in the physical realm? @therunner Brandon souned a bit iffy in that WOB, but 2x to 3x for strength and indefinite on other attributes that's fine the storage still starts higher but will be out matched by compounding over time. Not suer I was clear if a Steel compounder takes a minute to store some speed they can tap that same speed for the same time without loss. If they burn the metal mind they get back maybe 10x what was stored and so long as they don't reduce the tapping time to less than the storing time they can have virtually 100% return, and they can get the same result by giving themselves more time instead of more speed from their augmented storage. So compounding gives them about 10x speed for the same time or 1x speed for 10x time, or a combination of the 2 such as 2x speed for 5x time. Each compounding increases the storage about 10x in either time or speed or a combination of both until they reach a point where it becomes hazardous to go any faster.

Source https://coppermind.net/wiki/Spiritweb Aluminum does 2 things that are relevant. 1. It neutralizes investiture effects used against the allomancer. 2. It has the potential to restore the pre-investiture attack state of the spiritweb in full so making it as if it never happened. Since Identity is the defined boundary of a persons spiritweb every new connection adds to that boundary since connections could be defined as overlaps in identity that new portion to the Identity can be stored and perhaps some of the other persons Identity with which the Truesoul has a connection with could be mirrored in their identity to be stored as well (the last part is mostly speculation beyond the connection overlap). Take this for what it is worth to you but it seems to me that storing Identity is the ultimate storage in the Cosmere because it has the potential to store so many different things. In the case of metal arts tapping it would appear to be permanent unlike other things one could tap. A Trueself who was forged could potentially retain the forgery indefinitely or store that Identity to be used later for as long as needed beyond that they could potentially tap parts of multiple Identities for indefinite periods then store all or part of that Identity for use later. I really don't care if you think that is how it works, but give me a good reason why it can't work that way and I will consider it. Just because you don't think so wont persuade me so don't waste your time with that type of argument with me beyond saying you don't think so and that is OK with me just not persuasive. Yes I think we have misunderstood each other. First I got the Idea of how fast pewter burning might be from Vin being able to outrun a horse (40-45 mph) for a long period of time roughly 3x burning and guessing on what is possible with flare just more than 3x. Still if they sprinted everywhere for an hour while burning pewter they might be able to store 30mph for an hour of burning which is initially more than compounding can create. Estimating loss by tapping faster I don't have hard numbers on and can only speculate, but there is loss, but until tapped there is no loss. Compounding on the other hand works differently. If you store 10% for 1 minute you might store about 1.5 mph for a sprint. Then you Burn that for a 10x return so now you have 15 mph for 1 minute no time change which you store. Next you have 150 mph for 1 minute again no loss due to change in time and if you extend that time to 10 minutes again no loss due to compression but you are only running 15 mph for that period. Next 1,500 mph then 15,000 mph = mach 19 for 1 minute or Mach 1.9 for 10 minutes or 150 mph for almost 2 hours again no time compression so no loss. From there you have 16 hours of 150 mph worth of speed stored and at the next compound you have almost a weeks worth of 150 mph. 150 mph should be enough to run circles around almost anybody in the cosmere, but if not you can tap it all the way back to your ultimate lossless 1 minute velocity which would be Mach 278 and would flay you in atmosphere without some kind of major protection. The compounder only needs to store the initial speed seed to get this result in just a few periods of compounding that is why Miles was almost impossible to kill while he had all his metal minds. How often will the steelrunner need to tap anywhere near that potential. How much of that potential will they tap to enhance their pushes if they can find an appropriate anchor to take advantage of it. How fast would a coin or bullet be moving if pushed by that kind of force and for how far. How much steel do you need to store that much speed? So Pewter starts faster and increases linearly while compounding starts potentially much slower but increases exponentially because it has input from the shard. I have been catching up on the surge discussion and it occurred to me that by definition metal arts are surges without oaths and thus without oath restrictions. Just food for thought when comparing Roshar with Scadrial. Aluminum both removes investiture injuries using allomancy and restores the spiritweb using feruchemy both of which allow for a form of healing. The restoration aspect might even heal physical injuries back to the last Identity store, or allows for progression healing by potentially removing the part of the identity that has accepted the injury as permanent depending on when the Identity was stored last. From my perspective the potential of Aluminum metal art is beyond that of any other form of surge binding in the Cosmere see some of my other comments above for an idea why. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me.

With Identity as a person or things map on the spiritweb connection would be where Identities overlap. Identity is also not static. Every experience, new connection, loss of connection, new thing you learn, personality, talent, injury (especially spirit), environment, and so on changes the Identity, maybe not allot but some. The identity locks on things seem to be somewhat flexible not strict in requiring exactly the identity creating them, or perhaps evolve with the person or thing. I love how you support your idea with potential statistics. I just don't think those statistics match the situation this time. For a Steel compounder storage could become an issue but remember Wax was able to store a buildings worth of weight within his bracers so metal minds may have huge storage capacity and more metal means more capacity. Second compounding appears to be described as exponential. You store 1 and burn it for aprox. 10 provided by preservation/hamony. Then burn 10 and get 100 to 1,000 to 10,000 and so forth until the metalmind is full. Larger or more metal minds more storage. the initial storage might be 10% speed storage for 1 minute to 100% for 1 minute and so on. This increased balanced between greater time and greater speed. Wax had thousands of times more than his own mass in just his bracers so storage might not be a problem until well into the compounding. That means that this person is storing first 2 mph for 1 minute to 20 mph to 200 mph for 1 minute or 20 mph for 10 minutes and so on. The faster you tap the speed you lose some of the time so maybe 200 mph for 0.9 minutes instead of 1 or something like that. Though 20 mph for 10 minutes would go to 200 mph for 10 minutes. Storing Pewter speed starts out faster 3x sprint speed for entire burn of Pewter or perhaps as much as 10x speed for entire flare length of pewter flared. The more pewter you burn or flare the more time or speed you have but it is multiplicative and will eventually be surpassed by compounding. That means this person is probably storing around 45 mph for the length of burn. Long before air resistance became an acceleration problem escape velocity would be, but the friction from air resistance could become an issue before it causing acceleration problems as well. A steel compounders pushes could also be potentially more powerful than Duralumin steel for longer though probably not much longer because the steel would burn faster so you would need more steel to burn. It does change Identity but Identity is constantly evolving anyway. Actually with an Aluminum compounder I think you could create your spike factory easier since they can also heal their spiritweb and you need only have spikes granting allamantic and or feruchemical powers for them to use to create open metal minds. by switching spikes they could potentially create something like the bands of mourning.

Seemingly steelrunning is not affected by inertia. it is the wind resistance causing friction that is the problem or moving so fast that there is not enough available air due to wind resistance or perhaps the wind making it hard to see. In SoS steelrunning was shown to have the person moving so fast they were little more than a blur unless you are in a Bendalloy bubble and then they look like they are moving regularly, and that is with the restriction of storing speed regularly not compounding or filling with pewter. The first thing you would want at high speed are some goggles long before you were moving fast enough to be in danger of friction damage. 100's of mph is certainly within possibility before friction and wind become a health issue. At mach speed you would want a helmet if for nothing else than bug splatter. Maybe light armor in case of air detritus. The only stated speed limit is the speed of light.

Justice and mercy cannot both be fulfilled at the same time without some kind of intermediary. Justice is the eye for an eye ideal. Without some intervening factor Justice is ultimately undeniable by mercy. In the eye of Justice everything good must be rewarded fully, and every thing bad must be punished fully but in no case more or less than what is warranted. Justice is part of what ties Harmony's hands. that being said edgedancers actual ideal isn't stated as mercy, but as being loving and healing so there is room for actual Justice there especially when balancing being loving and Just toward the victims in including the victim in the situation resolution. I view character building to be harder than just learning physical abilities, information, or acquiring powers, and ultimately has the potential to provide limits.The more complete a persons character the more restrictions they have.

He wouldn't have any problem with friction and windresistance unless he was moving supersonic so whats to check. Take it as my interpretation of his complete collaps after feeling like a big part of his soul was ripped out violently. Oh just to be clear "The Spiritweb is the network of Connections and Investiture which make up the soul of a creature, place, or object. Residing in the Spiritual Realm, Spiritwebs lack any tangible shape or size, with their borders defined by their Identity." Oh and Miles identity would change just not enough to debilitate him. When I said you forgot healing I was refering to physical healing. Until removed aluminum interferes with all forms of healing from investiture. So hit a Radiant in the heart, head, neck, vein, artery, or any other potentially lethal place with aluminum and it is game over no matter how much stormlight or gold they have and it has the potential of neutralizing all their stormlight to boot.. You are right that abilities and Identity are not the same. Abilities are contained within Identity which is much more all encompassing. Harmony is restricted buy not incapable. To get around his restrictions he uses tools like Wax and the Kondra. Tell that to Spook Harmony flat out made him a mistborn. So the potential is there even if not awakened. Radiants are more resistant to the downside of savantism that a person who uses a soulcaster, but are still vulnerable to it. Brandon actually said it depended on the bullet used in vindication among other factors. "Depends on the gun... Okay, so Vindication. He could probably... depends on the bullet, cause he's got several styles. But let's just say two or three. There's an argument he could do it with one, with the right shot, the right bullet, in the right moment." Oh did you notice the spiritweb is within the Identity? Oh and the WoB is within the coppermind.

As I laid down for sleep Lumina asked me, "with your power how did you get captured?" "Are you asking what they did to capture me, or how were they strong enough to capture me?" I responded. She continued, "Yes, how did they have power to capture you?, More than that since they seemed to have that power how could you escape." I said "I got captured because there is a law to power, and that same law helped to free me. With all power comes restriction, the greater the power the greater the restriction." She looked puzzled so I continued. I remember when I first learned this lesson. I had just learned how to shadow Bronze and so finally understood how to integrate being both a seeker and a sentry. I noticed that there are qualities which each metal born shares with those who use the same metal. In the case of Bronze it was that they can become obsessively observant of and preoccupied with people who are a potential invested threat of any kind. What I realized that day was that to be effective with Bronze I needed to be alert and present, but if tipped into be obsessive it would narrow my awareness. Mastering physical skills is easier than incorporating a new quality or value. It takes constant attention to remain alert and present without becoming paranoid which would lead to a form of potential insanity. With that realization I started to look for qualities shared in other metals. Most obvious was pewter. They have a near obsessive focus on strength, but mostly on the physical aspect of strength. With some this can be diluted by some types of feruchemy. One quality that pewter could provide strength in is balance, but there is no feruchemical compliment that can store it except nicrosil and it normally only stores physical balance. That in fact was the other piece of the power puzzle that I first realized with Bronze. Pewter focuses on strength and some of the people with the strongest character were thugs and brutes who went beyond just the physical in their values. They maintained a balance and dexterity in the things they did. Iron focuses inward, steel takes action, tin observes, zinc expands, and so on to integrate each metal I had to incorporate a new quality into my character and balance it with all the others. With Nicrosil I had to adopt the qualities of sacrifice and support. So when the ghostbloods captured me they inadvertently place me in a situation contrary to my character to use my full ability to escape, but in not understanding what hobbled me and thus underestimating my actual potential as a result they later left an opening for me to exploit to escape. To be honest I told Lumina, for me mirroring metal arts is not much different than swearing oaths and may have actually prepared me to be here. For me balance is key to my abilities.

Breaking the sound barrier is not a problem. Compounding[edit] A steel Compounder would be able to use steel to have a nearly infinite supply of physical speed.[16] They would not be able to run faster-than-light. If not careful, the Steelrunner could kill themselves from running too quickly by factors like air resistance. (Steel armor could help with this) I got it mostly from Tefts death after his spren was killed. Alright you took me to literally. Counter investiture. Brandon chose aluminum for the role it serves because it is rare pre-industrial age, then becomes incredibly common, providing a way for technology to counter Allomancy. It has been shown to counter other forms of investiture and its metalic properties also enable this. Coppermind is as valid as any of the WoB's. Allot has not been done in the books yet our most reliable source. On metals qualities or other investiture quotes they are in the books as quoted in the books in the Coppermind so are reliable. For all we know the spiritweb is incapsulated within the Identity, at the very least the Identity makes up a significant part of the Spiritweb and like connection is indivisible from it. Brandon doesn't discuss spiritweb with anymore detail than he does Identity or Connection and he often when discussing them does so in reference to each other. Aluminum counter investiture see response above. I appreciate your math, but we are talking about a world with different degrees of physical force. Steelrunning comes with increased reaction which also helps with aim, but I think you missed the point of throwing the Hammer. It was meant as saying that even if a radiant is flying they are not entirely secure, and a hammer moving at mach speed (reference above as well) would be hard to dodge if on target. It would also travel far though the further the less likely it would be on target. Oh I noticed while re-reading Steelrunner qualities that it can increase burning speed more than Duralumin, which adds another aspect of this proposed twin. A pewter burner who has more than pewter/duralumin power. Yes he has to move but that is no obstacle to a person burning pewter since they simply store the potentially unnecessary speed while burning pewter and moving around. Rarely does a pewter burner need all the speed they have access to. To use your estimate a pewter burner has the potential to move 3 times faster than normal, but instead he moves normal speed and stores the extra 3 times speed from burning pewter when ever possible. Instead of wasting pewter by just burning it away before bed they flare it to store speed just before bed. counter investiture in trivia. you took me to literally. It always interfers with investiture where ever it pierces, and with intent it is a hemalurgic spike which nullifies all investiture. You missed un-healable. did you miss harmony trying to set up defense against odium in SA? He does more than talk to Wax he sends him actual help and arranges what he needs to potentially succeed. He can produce Lerasium if he chooses so long as he stays within balance. Never the less all Scadrians do have the potential to be Allomancers even mistborn, but that potential is rarely awakened regardless why that is. Any with Terris anscestry also have the potential for Feruchemy as well. One of the advantages Scadrians have over Rosharans is that they can take advantage of other planets investiture to enhance their own. They are literally able to add almost any other form of investiture to their own innate investiture. Metal arts work everywhere without hacks no other investiture does. The problem with soulcasting aluminum is that it stays what it is without the industrial ability to change its form. Aluminum sheets stay aluminum sheets and wires stay wires. So yes Roshar could potentially produce the material but they lack the tech to work with it much beyond that. It has also been said to be difficult to soulcast what ever that means in terms of the Cosmere. Scaling soulcasting is a problem to since the soulcasters if they start doing to much will begin to turn to metal which is both lethal and irreversible since they will likely be an aluminum statue. Even before that the aluminum in their system may block their ability to soulcast altogether. Progression will be blocked as well so no healing for them even with a little move toward savantism. We don't know where they got the aluminum for Urithiru or the affects of assembling that quantity. @ScadrianTank You really only need a steel compounder with alluminum weapons who hits the Fourth oath before they even realize they are being attacked or give them a big hammer to crack the plate over and over until they can stab an aluminum blade shoot an aluminum bullet into a lethal spot. Oh 2 or 3 bullets may only be referring to regular bullets to shatter shardplate sections, it might be a different story for armor piercing rounds or even vindication hazekiller rounds.

consider Lightweavers value creativity and honesty, Willshapers value resoluteness (I interpret as integrity) and building, Edgedancers value being loving and healing (mercy). So far those are the orders he is fully connected to and in order to continue that connection he must act in accordance to those values. Yes his oaths may be personalized to himself, but are equally binding as well. The only shortcut was in initiating the connections during the revival process, he still needed to complete those connections through sincere and binding oaths. Like Hoid his abilities enabled him to ease the transition of the Spren bond. I have an idea how I will integrate the Skybreaker ideals of Justice and confidence which have the potential to contradict Edgedancer ideals. You may note that quicksilver stores the identity of metals in his aluminum minds which he can innately burn so the aluminum because of that acts as if it is that metal, but he is not actually burning Brass and Zinc but aluminum identified as those metals so shadow metals.

It is not just about the storage, but also about the protection. A few extra pounds for a thug is not incapacitating so long as it servers a purpose. It is not just the Pewter strength but the Mach speed steelrunner spin that enables the throw. I though I was clear when I described it as a hammer or shot put throw? People and things connect to Identity, and part of what makes up Identity are a person or things connections. Only aluminum (trueself), and its derivative duralumin (connector) can fully separate the two so far as I know. Even when Taldain tried to rip away the stormfather from Dalinar he seemed to be ripping part of their identities from them. Sorry I wasn't clear the spren in the bullets were not the same spren, think more along the line of windspren for the bullets of a windrunner. Though in my scenerio it could also have potentially been one of the other spren he bonded. I know very far fetched. The Coppermind also implies you may be able to Forge someone into an allomancer, which would be easier on a Scadrian since it has been said they all have investiture from Harmony but in almost all of them it is inactive. I suspect that when Hoid burned Lerasium he got a different benefit than has been usual since he may have known how to burn it most effectively. the information on whether living plate is dismiss-able is contradictory. Even the degree of durability of plate is contradictory. I certainly expect to change my perspective as more examples are presented especially since I project at near the limits of what I think might be possible based on what has already been shown or written in my speculaton. Admittedly beyond what most people seem comfortable with. As such I try and be open minded when others push the envelope even when I don't think it likely. @therunner Pewter agility will help with aim. Nealy strait up might require more like a spinning Thor throw. Burning enough pewter to fill the armor might make them a pewter savant, but if they were careful they might avoid pewter drag since the focus would be on storing unused speed when they burn pewter. Harmony seems to take a bit more of an active roll as shown with Wax. The 24 hours is because the underlying identity eventually erodes the stamp, but a Trueself fully stored wouldn't have that consideration so anything becomes plausible even mistborn since all Scadrians have that unawakened potential. Not just conjoiners it affects all Fabrials and Soulcasteres as well as external surges. Aluminum appears fairly common on Sel but not Roshar Lopin Said it was very rare and only thought it could be soulcast and then rarely. In the aluminum coppermind it says it is anti-metal arts and by extention anti investiture. 2 of its invested metal art abilities are to neutralize investiture. an aluminum bullet with intent is a hemalugic spike and will wipe all investiture from its target if it hits.

With his oaths and other integrated partial personalities over time he will become more like Hoid in that he will be less willing to take destructive action against beings. Over time he will only be able to integrate the most integrity supporting qualities. You think Kal has an issue with picking sides wait until he completes the Radiant circle. Harmony only knows what he will do then. Take a look at the qualities inherent in Radiants and consider how you might integrate them. Who will he bond to for Bondsmith? Why? Does he already have that bond at least partially?

Lumina replied "what if we sneak out and discover the watchers ourselves. I think we might be able to slide through the stone and dirt below this cottage to leave without being seen". Fractal added "Yezz and we could clooak ourrselvvs in illusion to remain hiddennn whyal we finnnd themm. That would beee a greaat lie. leeave themm wonnderinng wherrre you arre annd how youu got therre." Harvest started to laugh and said "We can even be slippery so as not to make any noise to give us away. Imagine how they will look when you return but they never knew that you left." Within just a few minutes we were swimming though the earth to a secluded place just outside of town. It was really strange building an illusion to cover me as I emerged. I took the precaution to tap shadow tin to sense anyone nearby. Not long after I was entering the pub to meet with some of the other merchants. Gathered around the table we discussed how Alder and his group had been extorting traders for awhile. How anyone who stood up to them until now seemed to vanish but nothing could actually be tied back to them. They told me how Flander and some others were new arrivals that had given Ander more muscle to work with. We talked as some length about how the extortion was accomplished and enforced which even included some leverage from the local authorities and Lords. After a couple of hours of discussing how things stood and considering how we might be able to respond to get evidence we could use with as little risk as possible there was a loud explosion outside. The front windows shattered. I ran to the front of the pub as others scrambled further back into the pub away from the noise. Outside was a stormin big dog. I do mean stormin you might call it a Stormweiler. It was about as high on all fours as just above my elbow and it was very agitated. streaming from it randomly were mini whirlwinds and lightning. It was snarling and seemed to be hunting something. The explosion had been lightning striking a keg of flour. Around it was a maelstrom of swirling air and debris, some chunks as big as softballs. On top of that it vanished only to reappear seemingly out of thin air several feet away. I thought if something isn't done this stormin dog is going to wreck the town, on the bright side those Steen biforkcated beards being blown every which way was a sight to see, and the all the hair standing up and waving like everyone had put their fingers in electric sockets because of the static charge in the air almost made me laugh. But seriously how do you confront or divert something that can turn the very air into electric soup. I only had one idea. It wasn't very good since I had the least practice with Brass shadows. I walked outside and began to burn my brass shadow focusing on damping anger, fear, panic, while burning my zinc shadow focusing on calm, tired, security, and well being and hoping that as I projected those emotions they could find some hold in the stormweiler. To my surprise it started to work until I was hit by a lightning bolt from up the street to my left. Everything was scrambled. My illusion dropped and everything went blank. Some weird shape was speaking to me some vines were spinning around me and some bright speck was darting back and forth while I tried to steady myself. Then lightning started to jump from the stormin dog to me and follow the open path to the big bug thing that hit me with lightning in the first place. While the current surged through me I started to understand the weird shape was that Fractal and was I Relcar. That didn't seem right but Fractal told me I could channel that current where I wanted it and away from me I just needed to tap the shadow storm in my metal. A burst of cleansing power shot out of me at the big bug, was that a void bringer? And nothing happened to it. The stormin dog saw the thing and I have never seen something so big move so fast. One minute it was several yards on my right and the next it was ripping into the bug thing with its teeth. I didn't know what those teeth were made of but that bug armor was no match for it. somewhere in the back of my head I thought I must have revealed the big bug to the stormweiler with the lightning. Arcs of black power, voidlight?, seemed drawn to the stormin dog and then the thing dissolved in place. The Dog looked at me with a hungry expression and I burned aluminum. All the shadow power vanished and my head started to clear. As my head cleared I burned my Identity and slumped to the ground. Ironically the Dog just came over and licked me and laid down next to me as I rebuilt my illusion. It was dark and things happened very fast so no one would notice what I really looked liked. I decided to call the stormin dog Brandy because that was what I felt like having right then. It didn't seem to mind. We all called it a night after that and walked back to my cottage. The look on the spies faces set to watch me was priceless when I got home. Harvest said "I think we have something new to cultivate here."

I have been viewing his classes about 3 semesters worth that have been posted thanks. You are both right that I need to consider issues unique to him and weaving identities. have you noticed that his ability is more along the lines of mirroring not stealing Identities except in the case of the Blades trauma? He doesn't actually store emotions from the spren but the part of their identity where they experienced that pain and those effects within their identity. I can see I will need to work on this. Thanks both for the feedback. I am trying to avoid most interactions with established characters which is why I sent him off to some out of the way place that way I have almost complete control of the characters he interacts with. One piece of feedback I got sometime ago was about being careful including a spoiler character that I wasn't even considering.

Glad you support the idea of shardguns as potentially possible. Shardplate is made up of a different level of spren than shardblades more on the level of fabrial spren, and Fabrial spren with try to get as far as possible from aluminum according to Dawn shard. An aluminum compounder can already burn metal and the forger might switch the metal, or Harmony gave him Lerasium and the Forger rewrote him to have the scholarship to most effectivly burn it. A trueself according to Brandon who fully stores their Identity is vulnerable to Forgers for good or Ill so if they were working with any Forger they would need to trust them implicitly. It is Identity that fowls with stamps over time. I thought Dalinar bonded the blade in 3 days in WoR? The indications I am going off are Syl and Kal's or Shallon and Patterns discussions and how they seem to be completing each other's Identities. On that same note as Syl and Kal's bond deepens she seems to recover her identity even the some of part she shared with her last Radiant. Not only do Syl and Kal seem to share part of their Identity but Dalinar and Stormfather seem to be progressing that way as well, especially the Spren. Even Adolin's blade seems to have retained some of that Shared Identity. It seems to me that you have been doing allot of speculation on Shardplate not entirely supported by others so what is the difference? By the way I think Shardplate requires stormlight to repair but may be like shardblades in that summoning it doesn't require stormlight. If you run out of stormlight then the sections can be destroyed until you get more stormlight. Or maybe it is different and to summon it initially requires stormlight but it will remain until dismissed or damaged when you run out of stormlight. Steel armor because it serves 3 purposes. 1. It acts as a metalmind with allot of storage space. 2. It resists damage from phyisical and invested sources. 3. it provides extra proteciton enabling much faster speeds before injury. Within a certain range throwing a heavy hammer like a Thug/Steelrunner could manage would make it a heavy very fast moving projectile and if it hit could do serious damage. The range might even be over long bow or even ballista range. Aluminum is incredibly rare especially on Roshar and only becoming a viable weapon on Scadrial, and Raysium has the advantage of stealing the Radiants stormlight effectively stopping all their radiant abilities where aluminum only affects the area until removed unless used as a Hemulugic spike, but that it also currently unknown on Roshar. The other problem is that aluminum is not really understood. Now Brandon has said it is meant to be the anti investiture metal and by the relative modern (our time) time of Scadrial it will be very common there like it is to us. We will see all kinds of things made out of aluminum then. Identity and connection are different but they are also interconnected and nearly inseparable in almost all cases. I am surprised that you have spent so much time speculating on Shardplate and justifying those speculations with It is your opinion since you spent so much energy criticizing me for doing the same thing. I thought according to you that was out of bounds for this thread?

We haven't seen much aluminum used since it is very rare on Roshar only available from Horneater peaks or soulcasting which is stated as very difficult so we really haven't seen it used as a weapon. The forger wouldn't be adding investiture but switching the conduit of the investiture by forging someone who is already an allomancer. One of the issues with forgery is that a persons identity eventually causes the seal to break down, but a True self can avoid that. That is potentially both good and bad. From what I have seen connection and identity are both interconnected and inseparable. I gave you those links to show you it is possible to stack shots even today when it is not so important that someone needs to be that accurate. Scoff at that accuracy if you want I happen to know my Grandfathers were that good with firearms, My father was almost that consistently good and he was blind in one eye. To my knowledge he only met one other person who was better at target shooting than he was and that was in basic training. The guy was a professional marksman before he joined. I don't know if that same man was as good when it came to hunting because I have never met or heard of anyone who was a better shot in that situation, and I know allot of hunters it is kind of a major past time in the area I grew up. Both my grandfather (his father was the Sheriff) and Father told me that gunfighters weren't feared because they were fast but because they hit what they shot. Doc Holiday was deadly because he didn't care if he died so he never rushed a shot, and Porter Rockwell believed Joseph Smith's prophesy that he wouldn't die by a gun so he never rushed a shot either, that being said they were both relatively fast. We also know that aluminum messes with investiture and can shut down invested healing until removed, is immune to gravity and adhesion surges as well as others. Wax should have made more of an effort to get some of those aluminum bullets to use on Miles, because they would have worked.

@LewsTherinTelescope So living plate can seal, but most shardbearers or Radiants out of stormlight would suffocate if the face plate sealed. I was thinking that a Thug/Steelrunner would prove to be a formidable opponent. Pewter physical enhancement with stored pewter speed ferrruchemically tappable. Give him some invested steel armor for protection from hits, windresistance and Friction and a durable heavy hammer and some aluminum spikes to use after shattering his opponents armor and most Radiants would be hurting. Only those who can stay out of reach would have any safety, but he could probably shot put throw the hammer (I think it is actually called a hammer throw) a good distance up let alone long for effect. Steelrunner speed added to pewter enhanced physical abilities in the hammer throw.

I got caught up in another thead, but always meant to return. I was also feeling like I needed to get back to the Spren and weaving more of them into the story. I was also having trouble thinking of where to go next. Thanks for the encouragement. You may have noticed that not many have viewed my story. I welcome any ideas since one of the reasons for this attempt is to refine my writing as I work on my own fiction since my first self published book wasn't very well received. a Sai is a Japanese dagger like weapon that has a strait cross bar with both ends pointing forward. @MiaLaD10 No I wouldn't mind you writing Quicksilver Just give me a heads up so I can enjoy it with you. See Sai below. I'll wait on Hoid though I do plan on Harmony at some point.

When I got home later that night Lumina, Fractal, and Harvest gathered around. They had avoided openly interacting with me outside so as not to attract unnecessary attention. Lumina said, "I know that I am new, but isn't antagonizing people you used to hang with kind of dangerous even if you don't look the same?" Fractal piped up saying, "these new lies are very delicious." Harvest said, " I'm with Lumina. We have only just begun to take root here, how does drawing more intense light help?" I smiled and said "groups like the Ghostbloods thrive in the shadows and the dark. I know Flander and know people like Ander. To them I am an unknown. They can't risk an open conflict with me, and anything strange that happens to me would draw unwanted attention for now. They can't be sure what, how much or who I know. Because of this their next move will be to try and draw me out. For now I think we need to act as if what they want is irrelevant to us." "I don't understand" Said Lumina, "conflict could reveal you. Isn't that a problem?" "If Ander see's through the illusion he will link me back to Shallon and pass me off as some amateur attempt on her part to get more information. Because of that he will think he can handle me on his own. If Flander pierces the illusion he will think I am an impotent aluminum nat easily handled and reacquired and with his arrogance he will think if he calls for help with me he will lose face with his crew. In the mean time both will enter a holding pattern observing to discover more of my secrets while I can build a network in the area to watch them knowing they will be watching me and tracking them back from there." I explained. On another topic I said "After associating with the three of you I am becoming increasingly more concerned with fate of your other dead brother, cousins, and sisters still trapped like you were. I am not sure of how many other bonds I can take on to revive them, but I would like to release them back to their previous state. Do you have any idea's?"

In the Dawn shard (Just finished it this weekend) Lopen and Huio discovered that Spren in a span reid are repelled by Aluminum and try to get as far away as possible. Dismiss living plate maybe not, but hijacking it would seem to be in the realm of probability. They are really not suppose to divide connection but transferring connection seems to be within their ability. I am not sure the Plate gets pierces so much as the possibility of the spren making it up might try to avoid being touched by it so perhaps a whole section disappears or becomes insubstantial at contact. That is wild speculation, but given some examples like the Spanreid fiasco in Dawn Shard seems possible. Not sure how likely. Since plate is made up of lesser spren and lesser investiture they might respond more violently than a Shardblade which we know will impact aluminum. If a Spren can only form a solid object then a Shard pistol would be a no go, but if it is dependent on what the Radiant knows about then moving parts might not be a problem. The bullets could be like manifesting Shardplate or in my scenario it might even be some of the other higher Spren. Bullets wouldn't be a problem they are solid. Just replace them in charged casings he already has for his pistols. Having a Forger write an Identity to know how to maximize burning Lerasium and using that Identity on Sel could avoid any problem. In the coppermind one of the examples was of a Forger writing a soul into a full mistborn. The other solution is to store that Identity in aluminum to be tapped anywhere. That would mean the identity is linked to the metal and thus to Harmony and not to Sel anymore. Forging someone into having more allomantic powers might work since they are already innately invested that way you are just giving them more conduits for that investiture. During the bonding process (it takes 3 days) with the dead shardblade I presume that that the person links some of their identity with that of the blade. I also presume that with that link a Truesoul might be able to transfer some of the blades identity into a metal mind perhaps the part related to the broken bond, perhaps even some residual shadow of the Radiants identity remembered in the blade. If that were possible it facilitate reviving the Spren especially if the person then forged a more powerful bond through oaths. Again I am speculating on how storing Identity works. Identity does seem to be something which can be permanently tapped or stored. Yeah my great grandparents couldn't have been videoed since they were about a century ago. My gunslinging Grandfather was a pony express rider in his younger years and a Sheriff in his later years known for his skill both in tracking and gunfighting. There are a number of others from around that era that were also reputed to be about that good like Porter Rockwell, and Doc Holiday. I have also seen videos of people alive who are also that accurate. I think there is one about the fastest gunslinger To see his video he could shoot 6 times so fast it sounded like 2 extended shots and hit 6 small targets within 25 ft in spread over an arc of about 150 degrees. Don't underestimate the skill of someone who really works at a skill. Here are some examples of bullet stacking https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-shoot-two-bullets-through-the-same-bullet-hole Pay attention to Michael Bird. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12179-Saw-a-bullet-go-through-exact-same-hole My great gandfather was using more like a muzzle loader. He was the guy that when people came to town bragging about how well they could shoot He was asked to compete. He even beat one guy with his own rifle after only one test shot in which he determined not only that the rifle sites were off but corrected for it and bullseyed every shot after. @therunner The amount of heat would depend on a number of factors. How concentrated the heat is. How heat conductive the Plate is. Does the bullet have other properties like a tungsten core in which case the heat isn't the piercing factor but a destructive after affect trapped by the plate. Is the round explosive as well. In my research on this there were some pretty nasty bullets described. Then in the Cosmere we have the wildcard affect of aluminum which is also not fully understood. We don't know the full capability of Shardplate or how resistant to damage it is or if Living shardplate has the same qualities even though we do know it can be broken if it takes enough damage. Is using shardplate beyond this thread since even now its limits are not well understood only that it seems to have some?

The scabbard was used to deflect Nightblood by a fused so it can take impact and has been stated that it is aluminum. It seems that the thickness necessary to resist cutting by even Nightblood is the thickness of one side of a scabbard. I would have loved to have someone say the Radiants were calling more Spren to thicken their plate or some of the other potentially speculative ideas based on what we know of radiants. I was considering having Quicksilver summon shardpistols with shardbullets to fight Radiants after bonding the Spren. With the idea that the Spren can take any form the Radiant can imagine. I know another idea way out there. Another reason I thought of that someone from Scadrial might go to Roshar would be because Harmony (who has been shown to be worried about Odium and his ambitions) sent him. He might have him stop off at Sel to work with a Forger to write an identities where he has access to other allomantic arts, and or scholarship to use Lerasium correctly and even supplied him with the metal which might potentially be used to give him the capability to burn Godmetals like shardplate and blades. He might be sent to assist Honors forces in countering Odium's forces. I presume your scenerio takes place if Odium wins the contest. Personally I think Dalinar will ascend to become Honor and then ally himself with Odium and cultivation to combat a greater threat to the Cosmere along with Harmony. Of course if Dalinar becomes the Shard of War being Honor he can simply release himself to conquer the Cosmere. The some of the weaponry you propose would make sense on a second engagement or later. Things like guns, tanks, explosives and so forth. Fabrials seem to be fragile so they would need some way to shield them or risk their destruction. Based on what I have read Identity seems to be able to be stored or tapped in full or in part. A forger would make a great ally for an Aluminum ferring since they are potentially so easily forged. I did have the dead agent bond the dead blade over a few days with each new blade then swear the oaths to the level of the former Radiant. So I was trying to indicate they formed a bond to revive the Spren. Regardless I was trying to anticipate what might be possible based on the stated abilities of the metal, but since no one has shown what an Aluminum ferring can do and according to all of you it must have been shown to be discussed there are many things that cannot be discussed on both Roshar and Scadrial. I am sorry to hear that anticipating or speculating on possible interactions base on what we do know is beyond the scope of this discussion, but I suppose I should have guessed. My great grandfather could shoot like that. He was known to shoot the door knob off the local chapel during church at a full gallop and if he had ever missed he would have killed someone, so making such a shot is plausible. His father was just as good with a rifle and was known to stack bullets. I wish you had said that before as well. Since shardplate is pure investiture and since Spren move as far away from aluminum as possible I had a thought that an aluminum weapon might just pass through shardplate completely unhindered especially living plate.

Identity appears to be the one thing you can store or tap that is permanent. What makes up Identity? It seems to me it would be personality, experience, training, talents, and skills up to that point in life With aluminum it is descibed as spiritual sense of Identity." This ability is not fully understood. The not fully understood is where there is allot of room to speculate so I do. I do think there is a cognitive aspect to it as well as a physical aspect. It is the identity that Spren bond to and over time and oaths the Radiant and Spren Identities complete each other or in other words partially merge. Any later bonds with that Spen will include some of that Identity. Per coppermind Aluminum-A purifies the spirit of injury. "an Allomantic savant with aluminum, it may be possible to cleanse their spirit of unwanted effects of Investiture." I seem to remember that Navani had been storing pain for some time so when she inverted the painrial and used it on her attackers that is what disabled them. Same with the one she set up as a trap for the fused. The Highspren that bonded Quicksilver felt he had a just reason to fight his previous Knight in defense of his world and felt he had a just desire to revive dead spren so accepted his bond. It made it easier that part of the Skybreakers Identity was now part of Quicksilver. Here is a quirky potential for aluminum. A person can store all the Identity. They are then a blank slate. If exposed to another Identity they could potentially be open to that and store it as well then tap the best parts of each Identity forming a new better Identity in the process. Over time through this Identity sifting process they could have Identities to use in any circumstance, but unlike forgers theirs are permanent until stored again. Nowhere does it say they can only store only their original Identity and Aluminum is as Brandon said weird and still not understood which I interpret to mean it may not operate like other metals. It almost seems like a potential God metal itself without a shard. How thick does it need to be to block a shardblade. Only as thick as one wall of a sword scabbard. That is against Nightblood perhaps the most powerful shardblade in the Cosmere. Nightblood didn't even chip it like he did to an honorblade. In the current state it's possible that some on Scadrial know about Roshar and the potential for invasion at some time, but the opposite is not true. So sending agents to scout is an acceptable precaution. Almost all Skybreakers serve Odium so are most likely to be a Scadrian's Radiant opponent. Additionally the agents are equipped with general anti-magic gear according to their abilities. Quicksilver, if aluminum works the way I speculate, acquired intelligence from ancient Spren on what to expect so had a major information advantage. Rosharan's are not familiar with Scadrian weapons and don't see any red flags like glowing or shards that worry them until it is to late. The Scadrian's on the other hand are used to taking the attitude of threat until proven other wise. No none of you need to accept my explanation or speculation, but with all the hand waving and open potentials still in the system rejecting my speculation out of hand because it doesn't fit your idea of how it works is also disingenuous. In other words when you say it doesn't work that way when things haven't been fully explained it feels like an insult to me, and until recently I feel I have been very patient with the condescending tones of many of those who respond to me. So you don't think it is the cutting identity of a blade that allows for spiritual cutting? When spren become hammers, shields or forks they don't cut the spirit web or spirit connection of the part. Identity is a cross realm attribute inherent in all semi-sentient or living things. Wax isn't the only marksman so choosing a marksman as a scout would be a good idea. He certainly would become more virtuous as he made oaths to Revive the Spren. Scouts must be compitent you don't just send average Joe to a potentially aggressive difficult to reach world. I am counting on the unfamilarity of Rosharan's to Scadrian weapons to give the scout a major edge. As both a Ferring and Misting he does have a bond with two Shards to begin with. After reviving the Shardblades he has a bond with multiple shards. Sure speculate and write a scenerio where Heln figures out how to overcome the stormlight-spren restriction to reach Scadrial with a plausible reason why they do it (perhaps to scout a possible invasion). I would love to see it. What I was saying is that the cutting identity of the shardblade (it is a blade) enables it to first cut the spiritual connection then it can cut everything else afterwards? Cutting only becomes part of their identity when they become a blade. If they are a Hammer, Shield, or Fork they don't have that part of their identity. Consider a shard scalpel would be great for cancer surgery as it could sever the spiritual connection of the cancer especially in the hands of Kal. Note until the spiritual connection is severed the Shardblade doesn't cut physically or cognitively.

No you haven't given me an alternate explanation. It is at odds with what you want to believe about identity. Oh and my explaination doesn't contradict your because. I'm not insulting you I am trying to get you to think beyond your narrow view. The explanations I gave you are really quite basic and simple, but I can't make you understand. Tell me why it does what it does or accept my explanation.

Aluminum potentially allows for a mixture of Identity perhaps even more effective and permanent than forging. Look I am still working out the quirks in my own mind and I get that you and others find the idea outrageous, but much in the cosmere is a big open void open to speculation even radical speculation like mine. Identity doesn't store information exactly but it can potentially store knowledge like muscle memory or mastered understanding or experience so not exactly what copperminds do. Nicrosil seems to store investiture inherent in or connected to ones identity, but aluminum has the potential to expand ones identity which in turn could expand ones connections in the process. Shardblades are investiture incarnate so their wounds can have the potential to be cleansed by aluminum. Shardblades are the penultimate weapon on Roshar so it is all but inconceivable that an ordinary looking person could come away unaffected by it to almost all of them. He intentionally didn't use stormlight because of its potential interaction with his aluminum. You should know that at least from the first dead shardplate he had infused gems. Identity facilitates connection. As a Radiant attains a higher ideal there is a greater connection between the Radiant's and Spren's identities. they literally become part of one another sharing parts of their identity with each other. Or at least that is how I read it. There appears to be a link between a persons identity and their connection to allomancy. Identity is a foundational cross realm quality inseparably linked to connection. You really can't have one without the other. That is one of the reasons that aluminum fascinated me so much. I actually addressed all 9 since many were related. Painrials only have as much pain as has been stored into them when the polarity is reversed as I remember. At least that is how Navani used it in the battle during OB. Why do spren bond to anybody? All humans from their perspective have betrayed them and bonding to someone who shares part of the identity of their former Radiant would certainly be simpler for them. The attitude of non glowing people or people not in plate as being no threat to shardbearers, Radiants, or Fused has be expressed over and over. Shallon herself expressed that she was virtually un-killable. The scadrian is familar with their weapons but they are not familiar with his. Once he revived the blade he knew perhaps more than they did about radiants because of how he accomplished it. None of them survived long enough to recognize the threat. Before that first encounter he really didn't need to know about them he only needed to know that he should try and make a lethal shot such as to the head. Seeing armor that he is unfamiliar with is a big red flag to try and get around it. Seeing a big sword is another red flag to not let this person get close enough to use it before you shoot them. Its the sword to a gunfight idea. The stated difference between light and its anti is intention. Navani before she was bonded could use a Raysium dagger to drain light so why not a Soulbearer then invert the light through intention as he stores it?

What I mean to say by being not very imaginative is that the idea is very basic, but I am not going to do your thinking for you. This is one of those times when you reject logical evidence because you want to at best. I'll let you think on it. By all means come up with an alternate explanation as to why shardblades sever until then I wont contiure to spoon feed you what you seem to want to intentionally be confused about. I suspect that it doesn't make sense to you because you choose to stop at because. That is the problem with because.