BenduLuke

yes you are right pushing any invested thing is a matter of force or perhaps skill. someone like Wax might not be able to push a shardblade in general but might be precise enough to push the tip with enough force to divert it. Your right I got gold mixed with Malatium, but a better self understanding might lead to more personal options and unpredictability. That's just it in the battles they don't give distances to enable calculations only general relative positions and motion. Even travel between places is generic without exact distances or precise travel times. again they are relatively fast vs regular conveyance. Aluminum does seem to burn fast and near instantly removes other metals, but because of that it also doesn't take much to clear metals so it burning fast may be due to the minimal amount that is used not its actual burning speed. Suppressors seem to work through connection interference which is why lower oaths went to sleep and surges became more difficult. Anti investiture would be destructive not suppressing. So far anti-investiture is only confirmed with Roshar's investiture fuel. Yes surgebinding can have some degree of limited versatility, skill, and cunning. Any Radiant can have 2 defined surges and their resonance based on the spren and can use those with a degree of versatility, skill, and cunning. Their fabrials cannot replicate Radiant surges to create other interactions yet since that is a lost art. Metalborn can have any number of combinations and their resonances to create a much greater degree of versatility, skill, and cunning to work with, and their medalions do replicate metalborn abilities. That means a single metalborn without damage could have 5 metalborn powers to combine at once and interact with each other. Standard medalions can hold 3 powers at a time and if given to a twin born that means 5 interacting powers potential for each individual metalborn. It was the variety of power combinations and interactions I was referring to when I said Scadrians have greater versatility. I wasn't refering to the versatile use of a limited set of powers evident in Radiants.

My brother absolutely loved Donaldson more than Tolkien. I had forgotten about him. with the exception of Hemingway and Steinbeck I haven't read the others on your top 10, for that matter I haven't heard of them before either. I will need to keep them in mind. I was disappointd by the end of Rowling's Harry story. I found Brandon Mull enjoyable. Ender universe (20+ books) from Card gets better as it continues. His Alvin series is my favorite from him. I found his books widely heartfelt and emotional. I have to say Tad Williams writes some the best prose I have ever read in a fantasy book. A Winters Tale was profound in its prose. George Orwell how do you categorize him. Profoundly dark and pessimistic view of humanity, but very insightful. One person I missed who is not ususally mentioned in fantasy lists is Samuel Clemons (Mark Twain), but A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court is definitely Fantasy. He is one of my all time favorite authors. It's been a while since I have read Steven Erikson. Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde, that reminds me of Mary Shelly (Frankenstien) and Brahm Stoker (Dracula). Favorite authors mentioned so far are by frequency: Brandon Sanderson. Probably due to this being the shard. Tolkien. No surprise there. Robert Jordan Philip K Dick, and Stephen Erikson with 3 mentions a piece. Don't kill me if I missed any it was a quick review of posts. Thanks all for the inputs so far.

We have seen various lesser Spren split in two in conjoined fabrials and if the Gems are broke they become two distinct spren so I imagine that it might be possible to split someone like Syl in two creating two distinct spren to bond to or if she bonded two people it spliting her in half and each half becoming its own spren bonded to a person. two or more spren bonding one person I would think depends on whether they exemplify the requisite ideals of each spren.

Likely building size fair enough. As many Spren can represent in multiple sizes not conclusive and they might be able to be forced into a more manipulable size. If that is their static size you could use less material with much larger gaps. I wasn't directly refering to his trying harder though that is simptomatic of his mastery of his abilities over the years. The lack of effort he used in his fight with Vin was indicative of his attitude to only do the very minimum with his abilities since virtually no one could challenge him. In other words I suspect with that much potential power comes a degree of motivation to do more than the minimum necessary in general. Where someone with less ability because they need to try harder could eventually reach a point where their own skill and ability outstrips the one with greater potential. (something I have seen over and over in real life.) Wax was doing feats similar to Vin's mist powered pushes and some she never imagined because of his skill and innate ability to increase his power. Deflected hits from shardblades and hits against shardplate at near normal strength levels that caused the damage which implies to me that the durability proposed by many of you is at least somewhat overrated. We never saw Kal when he blocked a hit thrown across the room or break his arm by shard enhanced strength. I do grant that so long as there is stormlight the plate will mend, but that doesn't mean it was impenetrable only that it might just heal over any holes. Singers all have greater strength than humans, and Fused greater still, but we have no baseline for measure of any of their absolute strength. Our measurements are all relative, and Roshar has been said to have lower gravity which implies less absolute strength in general of all the inhabitants. Kal when he was fighting Amram on the beach was lashing rocks at him. Some were pretty big and he was going through massive amounts of stormlight to do it and evade his several opponents. Upon consideration and further reading it was Kal's skill that enabled him to reverse lash the Defeated's head alone to the ground and was only possible because he stuck him off the ground. Reverse lashings seem to require something being drawn to what the windrunner is touching and if that attracted thing is on the ground (why the defeated was lashed to a wall above the ground) could cause it to fail more often than not. The connection to the ground interferes with reverse lashings. We really don't know how fast Windrunners are moving since their motion is always relative to their opponents. Certainly it hasn't been show as so fast that wind resistance, directions changes or friction become a problem. A-Gold can give insights into an opponent. A-Aluminum neutralizes the Radiants most effective weapon, potentially injuring the Spren the weapon is made of at the same time, and providing an attack of opportunity that is potentially lethal to the Radiant due to the shock of their blades ineffectiveness. All of this after being under fire for a period of time by potentially heavy weapons. There is also, though potentially remote, that being near the aluminum savant might do to stromlight what it does to metal. Also an aluminum misting might be able to be turned into a fullborn by hemalugy without the detrimental spirit holes over time. Subsumers have the advantage of mobility which can enable precision strikes anywhere. Gaspers can attack from unexpected locations or under unexpected conditions. Rivers, poison clouds, underwater, extreme altitudes and so on. Scadrial does have timers, cannons, explosives, and machine guns, so they have all they need to have flack and anti-air weaponry. You can also be the southern continent has anti-air weaponry since they have bonified air ships. not just muscle powered (probably soon to be fixed) floating platforms. Ettemetal explosives are potential city destroying ordinance. Building size is not a problem. Preservation provides structure and stability, while Ruin provides energy and change. Both are required for life. It is the balance between the opposites, decay wrapped in stability and energy wrapped in structure, that allows for change and growth without complete chaos. You may notice that cultivation operates in much the same balance as does the old magic. Harmony doesn't combine Ruin and Preservation, he balances them destruction vs construction and chaos vs order. They are literally opposites in balance on Scadrial. Rosharans might get the idea of firearms from Scadrial, but I think they would approach it differently. I think theirs would be designed more around Repulsor fabrials not chemically propelled projectiles. Imagine the variety of projectiles they could use. I haven't seen any evidence of greater power creating greater slipperiness in allomancy. On the contrary is seems to impart greater control. I found a WoB about momentum with regard to steelpushes. Questioner Everybody talks about steel-steel twinborns. A big topic of discussion. What I'm thinking about, I haven't seen anybody ask, what happens when somebody who's tapping speed, does a steelpush, does the steelpush react in realtime or accelerated time? And the object-- is it like a railgun? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm surprised that no one's asked me that before. This gets really dangerous really fast... It's RAFO territory, but you are thinking along the right lines. Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017) The momentum of your motion does seem to be translated into the momentum of the push. The 10x seems to be a generally accepted value and I remember reading it somewhere, but could find it. I think I follow your objection. Guns are viewed as making small holes so may not create massive injury, but that is not necessarily the case. Hollow points make a small entry wound but massive internal damage. So do explosive rounds. Some of Ranette's Hazekiller rounds are designed to stop Kolos and Thugs in their tracks so have massive impacts. Given this and the Scadrian metalugy there are many combinations of firearms that could be devastating even to Radiants of almost any oath and by nature from a distance negating Radiant's greatest advantages at this point. Any that include even a small amount of aluminum could play havoc not just with healing but many other surges as well gravity being one. Even vampires react poorly to silver and garlic coated bullets. It seems to me that the mechanics of Radiants and metalborn are fundamentally different. In order to suppress a Radiant you need to block the conversion of stormlight into a surge and that can be by using a counter tone like void tone, but to block a metal born you may need to block the key tone of the ability since all Scadirans are innately invested though most only latently so. I don't recall any windrunners actually reversing direction? Kal caught his father and had to slow so as not to hurt him so it seems inertia is an issue with lashings. Windrunners do seem relatively fast compared to their opponents but not so fast that wind resistance or friction seem to cause an issue nor do they seem to change direction so drastically that inertia becomes an issue. Moving targets are harder to hit but with enough high speed projectiles that becomes a moot point. From what I have seen so far Fabrials and manufacturing techniques do not lend themselves to mass production, but the Industrial processes of Scadrial do and seem to be in place already to do that. The shear versatility and combinations of powers in my opinion offers a great counter to the shear brute force of Rosharan surges and the difference in the level of technology between the two creates a substantial advantage when paired with magic to Scadiral. Scadrial's magic also offers a substantial advantage in rapidly developing technology more quickly and deploying it more generally. Yes one on one in most cases if the Radiant can get close they will likely win in a battle with a metalborn, but only if they close the distance otherwise they will more often lose even to the least powerful metalborn. Even a simple Coppercloud could get within an alerter fabrials defense to surprise and eliminate a Radiant from a distance. Brute strength such as Roshar has is only so useful against versatility, skill, technology and cunning with some potential applied force such as Scadrial has.

Thanks for that. I still wonder if that is how they appear in the cognative or if that is their actual appearance in the Physical. Many Spren also seem to be of variable sizes and seem to change sizes so even if it is their appearance in the physical they could potentially be squished into a more manageable size. For some reason the only Fullborn we actually know of didn't use anywhere near his full potential and even in his use it seemed more of a brute force approach where someone like Wax had major skill in his abilities due I presume to the amount of focus and practice he had in them. Yes if a Fullborn could master or nearly so all of his abilities there would be few anywhere that could challenge him, and he could produce more Fullborn's through new Bands. I have been trying to make the point throughout that Aluminum is the general counter investiture of the Cosmere. Not to be confused with Anti-Investiture. Scadrial is near the point where it can mass produce it. @Frustration Scadrial has the industrial infrastructure to begin to mass produce weapons and such where Roshar doesn't. It was still his just above average strength that was used to bash the helmet. His enhanced agility and speed limited the direct hits he took. Do you really think that he could have stopped a direct hit on the helmet by someone with shardplate enhanced strength? We don't know how hard those hands were or how comparatively strong the magnified one was since we have nothing to compare it to except its affect on her shard helmet and so long as she had stormlight the helmet would heal just like the one Kal used. Still her shardhelmet was damaged by hardened skin, muscle, and bone which might indicate it isn't as durable as we might think. From what I remember we only have one example of a Windrunner (Kal) using lashes to throw rocks and it was on a beach in an area about the size of a football field or 2 or somewhere there abouts. Not thousands of meters. He still missed often and drained stormlight very fast and didn't need to dodge super sonic projectiles while he was doing it. Windrunners are relatively fast and maneuverable compared to their usual opponents, but that doesn't mean they are absolutely fast or maneuverable. Alright A-Gold I don't see much use for it in battle, but even it could tip the scales at times. The other 3 I see very distinct potential advantages to. A-Aluminum has the potential to be immune to all investiture based attacks even shardblades. Gaspers could attack from ambush in any number of situations. Subsumers could persist without supplies for extended periods of time enabling coordinated surprise attacks from almost anywhere. They would need to eat and drink less than a camel while on mission so would need no supply lines. There are ways to take advantage of almost every metalborn ability in combat if you think it through. After saying that I could probably see ways to use virtually every Rosharan Surge in combat as well if I felt like giving it some thought, but I will leave that to you and the majority who want to promote Roshar. Yeah conjoiners have range, but they don't do much. That fabrial doesn't really mimic lashings and has huge problems for the user. Building size affects when battlefields can be 100's to 1,000's of meters or even many Km's. Even bridge four is muscle powered so very limited in its movement even if it floats on air. We are not 10 to 15 years in the future so we don't know what significant advances if any might take place. For all we know in 10 days most of the population on Roshar will be dead or enslaved even the Spren and they may be operating at near stone age level again with almost no remaining Radiant or Fused. Your quote is great but it is about the lifeboat not their main ships. Everyone of those Scadrian airships carries extremely high explosives that could be used to great effect by coinshots and firearms against Rosharan enemies especially near a Highstorm. Every one of those high explosives penetration into a Rosharan would cause catastrophic damage even to a Radiant. They might even be enough to irreparably damage shardplate with a near miss or impact. by corrupting the Sybling it could have affected Lifelight fueled surges as well since it was being corrupted with voidlight. I'll address you second statement first. Ruin and Preservation are opposites so what blocks one likely amplifies the other. Unlike Honor and Odium which are not opposites so can be independently affected. As such anything that can block both at once would nullify itself or explode. Remember Vin literally anihilated herself and Ati when she attacked Ruin. Harmony needs to keep it separate and balanced at all times and perhaps that is why his Godmetal (ettmetal) is so volatile. What Harmony does is comparable to the magic system of Recluse where magic is either based in order or chaos and when forced together in combat creates major explosions. Most magic users there use either one or the other and a few walk a fine line between them and also usually lean toward one or the other. The idea that a Preservation suppressor would amplify Ruin abilities comes from wave theory since Ruin and Preservation rhythms would have destructive interference thus a preservation suppressor would likely have constructive interference on Ruin Rhythms. Oh since you like Brandon's books you might check out the Saga of Recluse series by L. E. Modesitt jr. One warning the order he wrote the series in is not the Chronological order of the Books. He jumps around in history of over 1,000 years of his world. That is a quirk he has in most of his series. He has been on the writing scene since the 70's. Try him book order first then chronological order because the later books get better.

Since I don't have a hard copy of Oathbringer I cannot confirm or dispute your statement of how large the Singer soul to make a Thunderclast would be, but I don't remember any description of the size of that soul so I am skeptical. Sorry I misquoted. A fullborn who acts like TLR focused almost entirely on only a few of their abilities would have a challenge fighting a Radiant because they use many of the same abilities. A Twinborn compounder would have more mastery of the few things they can do. There was a lot that TLR didn't even seem to use that he had the potential to do. I suspect that most Fullborn would work on mostly a few abilities while neglecting others. Steel/Iron Allomantic power is affected both by the persons innate ability and their mass or momentum. The faster a coinshot is moving the more powerful his push will be and likewise the more weight a lucher has the more shear power they can bring to bear which is why those two twin compounders have such a potentially high power output. Roughly your metal pushes and pulls are 10x your mass and all of your momentum can be added to any push. Because Radiants have been shown to be able to be killed by the Regals aluminum weapons that indicates a significant limit to healing. Because a shardhelmet (Kaladin) has been shown to be demolished by his just above average strength and drained his Stormlight in the process the durability of Shardplate may also be being overestimated. Because even when Kal is flying as fast as possible he is not affected detrimentally by either air resistance or friction Radiant speed is also being overestimated. Using stormlight also leads to reckless behavior potentially putting a Radiant in extremely dangerous situation that they may not be able to handle. Lashing more massive objects devour more massive amounts of Stormlight. Only a few orders of Radiants are combat focused and none have much ranged ability at this time so their ability to close is also being overestimated. Even Rosharan fabrials and their production are being overestimated since most have very limited range, or effect and none can replicate Radiant surges at this time (that will eventually come). Scadrian Airships may be able to go over any highstorm. I am sure the containers are waterproofed because they operate on Scadrial in weather conditions. Also the small ships seem to need weightlessness, but the larger ships may not be nearly as dependent on that since that didn't seem to be a problem when Suit was trying to escape on one. Lyft's cultivation surge that of healing was working, but the other surge of abrasion which is probably an honor surge was not. The Sibling being of both Honor and Cultivation when she was being corrupted was potentially causing problems for both incrimentally only allowing Voidlight surges while blocking the other 2. Allomancy is potentially different enough from Rosharan investiture that it might actually require multiple suppressors to counter all the abilities. at the very least probably 3 or as many as 257 (16 allomancy x 16 Feruchemy). One to block Ruin's imitation of powers of Preservation. It would likely be hard to suppress both aspects of Harmony's power since what suppresses one side magnifies the other.

You are right a mutual counter. There is the potential for a Chromium compounder to have a larger area of effect than say Renarin. Those around him cannot be predicted but the further from him they are the better Odium can predict them. Someone with a near limitless supply of Fortune could potentially have a very broad affect even on a shard's perception. I get the idea that they can potentially form at least in part from soil from this description "When they desire to take on a physical form, they sink into the stone and animate it, ripping themselves out in the humanoid form.[3] As such, they retain some qualities of the material they take on, like the color or a covering of moss or fungus." Earlier it describes the Spren as singer souls so maybe 6 or 7 feet tall. Not so hard to make a cage or net that big. Some spren can change size so we can't be certain they could be larger or smaller. Overall I think a conflict between Rosharan and Scadrian magic is a toss up. I did generally agree with your yes no scenerios as to likely potential outcomes if they could go to Scadrial. There are some twinborn like steel compounders who could do enough damage in a short enough period to overwhelm even a Radiant in armor. Some could apply the brain vs brawn analogy to defeat or kill radiants. So far we have seen Brandon use brute force in both systems, but on Scadrial that is barely the tip of its potential. Toe to Toe there are very few metalborn that would be a match for any Radiant, but Scadrian magic isn't limited to toe to toe engagements to win, they are only icing on the cake. A single Zinc compounder could use any and all the abilities of his forces to best advantage and influence the morale of both sides of the battle. There are others that could have equally unforeseeneen affects on the battle tipping the scales to Scadrial. Roshar has brute force in almost all cases, but that still doesn't guarantee the win for them it only gives them a fighting chance. Anyone could be a Chromium compounder with the right medallion. You can make as many of those at a time as you can find truesouls. Of course you could make as many compouning medallions of any kind with a truesoul and the right medallions. One true soul could use any two medallions of the same metal in succession to create a compounding medallion so long as one was allomantic and the other feruchemical. Any other twin combination would be possible as well. It seems to me that an aluminum compounder could potentially use spikes or medalions to become fullborn and could then create even more BoM. A nicrosil compounder could also potentially become Fullborn using medallions and might then be able to create more BoM as well. I might possibly be wrong but we will need to wait and see. I hear one of the main protagonists of era 3 will use Nicrosil.

I recently discovered that one of my all time favorite authors passed away last year and it got me thinking of the various sci-fi fantasy series authors I have enjoyed over the years Terry Goodkind. My concious introduction to fantasy was of course Tolkien through the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings which is the first series I re-read. My serious Sci-Fi introduction was Orson Scott Card and Enders Game another first re-read series. An honorable mention for both Fantasy and Sci-Fi would be Piers Anthony. I discovered Brandon because I was finishing Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. After reading his contribution I decided to try Alloy of Law (my favorite Brandon Series), Then I sought out everything else he had out at the time and will give any of his books a try because I enjoyed his style so much. So my favorite Sci-Fi, Fantasy series authors in no particular order are: Orson Scott Card, Brandon Sanderson, L. E. Modesitt jr., Terry Goodkind, Jim Butcher, Allen Dean Foster, and Anne McCaffrey. Now to try to rank them but first Tolkien and Asimov are the Godfathers of the genres to which the others are derivative. 7. Anne Mccaffrey. I absolutely loved her Crystal Singer series, and the Dragons of Pern were both series that immersed me. 6. Allen Dean Foster. It was his Spell singer series and his Starwars adaptations that pulled me in. 5. Terry Goodkind. He used to be higher on the list. I started the Sword of Truth series and Wheel of time at the same time and the contrast between these very similar series kept me switching back and forth. I really liked the rules behind his magic, but kept getting frustrated that Richard never had time for his grandfather to train him until it finally became evident that his gift was unique and wouldn't work like Zed's. It was during a read of his most recent series that I realized his villains are essentially the same villain in different circumstances so he dropped a few spaces. 4.Jim Butcher. I discovered him because of a panel that he and Brandon were on. As I explored Harry's world his writing got more and more entertaining. Then I found his Furies series which has convinced me that I will give anything he writes a chance. Now it gets hard because the other 3 keep switching places on me. 3. Orson Scott Card when his series like Alvin or Ender is on target There is no one better in my opinion, but on his off day like pathfinders ending book it leaves a little gap though still better than most. 2. Brandon is in second for me right now. His characters are deep, scenes are epic, but it is when he writes in humor that it goes over the top. Wax, Lyft, and nightblood season his books with laughter for me. Then stoic Wax, and Steris, and moody Kaladin, and Shallon provide the deep currents to contrast the humor creating worlds of depth. 1. Finally L. E. Modesitt jr. Ironically I have discovered him multiple times without realizing it until relatively recently. He has been writing since the 70's. He started with Sci-Fi so the first series I discovered of his was the Time Lords series where the protagonist was Luke(Loki), and who doesn't want to read about someone named after him. Years later I read the Magic of Recluse without realizing it was the same author. His magic system locked me in. All magic users typically use either order (black) or chaos (white), and some rare individuals straddle both leaning one way or the other. Black magic users are usually craftsmen like carpenters, and smiths, where white magic is good for destruction and offensive battle. when I discovered he was the same author more recently I immersed myself into his other available series and have only less than stunned by his worlds once with one of his most recent books. Oh and he like Brandon lives in Utah. So there you have it. Which authors are your favorites and how do they compare to Brandon.

I was told his fortune was feruchemical, but i am not commited to the idea. Chromium compounders could be produced safely (hemalugy is a slippery slope) with medallions. With BoM we know we have the potential for at least one. Yeah seeing someone like Wax tossing opponents is very satisfying, but that is barely the tip of the iceburg of their potential. In addition I think there might be two other types of compounders that could be hacked into Chromium Compounders. Both Nicrosil, and Aluminum.

A chromium compounder has the potential of a near limitless supply of fortune. Hoid uses feruchemical fortune to be where he needs to be, but if he had compounded fortune he would also likely know why he needs to be there. Like I said it counters enlightened truthwatchers, and then it becomes who has more fortune.

First great analysis later in this thread. The (Y,Y,N) might still tip to Scadrial. It seems more like a toss up to me. The idea that Roshar will develop gunpowder and fire arms seems remote to me. I suspect they rediscover how to create surge fabrials and that will be the basis of how they create projectile weapons. That seems more in character to me of how their tech is developing. The need for stormlight is still a huge barrier to their potential expansion so until that is overcome any conflict would need to take place on Roshar. Obviously Brandon has plans on how that will be overcome, of course by that time investiture magic may be much more homogeneous. I really wish he had done W&W 4 before branching off on external series like Skyward. For that matter I am more interested in Era 3 Scadrial than book 5 stormlight. As for planet unity it is all a matter of timing. From my perspective of how BoM ended it seems on the verge of being forced to unite in both the north and south because those cities or southern groups who don't unite will be left out in the cold from those who do unite for trade and development. That could leave the united Scadrial much stronger and more capable. From what I see at the end of RoW it looks like they are on the verge of a short very devastating war that will claim the lives of spren, fused, singers, and humans indiscriminately. That could leave Roshar much diminished before a united Roshar gets in a conflict with Scadrial. I could be completely wrong on both counts, but that is how I see them shaping up. Recognizing my own bias and why I have it or choose it does enable my arguments and leaves me open to potentially persuasive arguments from the other side. It also means I am less likely to accept arguments from the other side conclusively that I feel have been overstated because of their bias. It means that I think many of the arguments that support Roshar are overstating those abilities and so I feel free to overstate Scadrials abilities in return. Compounded Chromium counters enlightened Truthwatchers. Yes if they are strong or skilled enough. Vin when fueled by mist could potentially do it. Compounded Iron or steel could potentially reach that degree of power and skill. BoM would possibly enable it. A Fullborn not only has raw power, but also has the potential to anticipate the future and the mind to prepare for it. TLR focused on the longevity and the raw power he held, but would have been much more successful if he had instead focused more on the spiritual and mental powers of his feruchemy. Chromium, Zinc, and Electrum in particular. If he had focused there he could have used his raw power more effectively. When thunderclasts form they bring with them the soil and everything which is why they often have moss, fungus, and detritus hanging from them or attached to the stone. They form from whatever material is readily available and are not limited to just stone. Either before forming the body or once the body is broken the Spren could potentially be captured stopping them from forming any new bodies. @therunner I know you guys think I am ignorant of Radiant capabilities, when in reality I think many arguments supporting them are overstating those abilities, so my response is to address that bias by giving extreme or overstated examples of Scadrian abilities. When I read some of your or others responses I am often left wondering if you even considered what I said. You personally much less than some which is why I still continue to respond regularly to you..

Getting metalborn abilities through Hemalurgy is a slippery slope since it opens the recipient up to manipulation. I am not contesting that the two planet would need to be internally united, but what is the condition of each once they unite. At this point from my perspective Scadrial will likely resolve any differences peacefully, but Roshar is looking like it is going to have an apocalyptic war with spren dying on both sides because of Navai's discoveries. You can also expect that both sides will adopt each others tech and weapons and even some of each others magic. Rosharan's probably wont make medallions instead they will steal them and yes they will probably learn to use hemalurgy, but that could create more of a disadvantage. While Scadrians will quickly steal and adopt Rosharan fabrials which will supercharge their own metalborn Realmatics advancement and some will bond some left over Spren. However none of that will likely happen until after a first conflict between them. Another advantage Scadiral will have is in weapons development and production. Scadrial already has an industrial mass production technology while Roshar is still one off craftsman based with no mass production capability. For now Scadrian tech meshes with Scadrian magic better than Rosharan magic meshes with Rosharan Tech. Scadrial is in a postioin to produce Fabrials than Roshar is in a position to use Hemalurgy or produce Medallions. Also Rosharan magic has an inborn instant kill to fused and radiants in the magic itself that when Scadrians realize it will doom Radiants and Fused because it can kill their spren outright. At the moment their is no equivalent in Metalborn magic. With the threat of the BoM negotiations will almost certainly succeed and war will be averted. If war does occur Scadrial will be in an even better military position against Roshar due to the newly developed weapons and tactics. City states that are on the verge of being unified to create a stronger trade alliance to work with the south. For starters I never claimed not to be biased. To claim that you all are not is disingenuous. Scadrial already has machine guns and timing devices so yes flack and thousands of bullets. Flack does not need to be altitude dependent, it can be contact and timing dependent. I also don't assume 1 radiant but dozens with no cover dropping into massed fire from cover. Only windrunners have reverse lashings and they have never been tested against high velocity projectiles so off target may be mm's not feet or yards. In addition reverse lashing needs something physical to draw the projectiles they don't just work in open air and shardshields cannot be lashed. Radiants would be under fire from the minute they come into range. They wouldn't know to go so high until after the first engagement, nor is it realistic that they would have 100's of kg of Rock 2 to 3 km's high. Even if they could accuracy from that height would be extremely low especially against a scattered force under cover. It is clear to me that you really don't know what I am assuming. You are making some very huge assumptions. Switzerland hasn't engaged in war in centuries eight, but they maintain one of the most effective military forces in the world. To assume there are no military forces on Scadrial is beyond Naive. Floating platforms vs actual airships I'll take air ships. Magic swords vs guns and explosives I'll take the guns. There is a reason why the saying of bringing a knife to a gun fight was created. Magic healing that can be stopped by a simple bullet and if placed correctly lead to instant death is barely an advantage. Then an instant death weapon against Rosharans built right into their own magic should give all of you pause. I considered addressing your whole rant, but I am disappointing that you didn't really think through your responses. There are no anti-mists as of now so you cannot assume there will be. Odium is trapped regardless. Really I lost patience with the rest of your rant because it seemed as if your own bias and desperation fueled it not your usual rational arguments. You are sounding more like Frustration than yourself. Oh and you can't count on suppressor fields since those must be keyed to the specific kind of investiture and Roshar doesn't know that nor can they easily discover it, but some metalborn can. Thanks for admitting that the ultimate metalborn will defeat any Radiant or Fused, even though I think you are wrong about that as well. I think it is a toss up who would win and depend on circumstances. 1st Duralumin is an alloy of aluminum so might be immune to steel pushes. As it stands if aluminum is thick enough it can't be cut by even Nightblood. See oathbringer. Brandon has been quoted as saying that any thickness cannot be cut by a shardblade. Most of the fused weapons are also aluminum and never get cut and are capable of killing radiants. Can aluminum nullify the defensive affect of shardplate. Most on this thread don't think so, but I suspect it might be able to get through because as you pointed out it is never damaged by invested attacks. It does other weird things as well and is not well understood yet so from my perspective any guess about what it might be capable of has worth. Aluminum does hemalugically take away power. If Wax had shot Miles with aluminum bullets they would likely have killed him if they hit him in the heart or head since it also neutralizes invested healing in at least the region of penetration. And that is where we get the problem. It might not penetrate shardplate because of how soft it is. Radiants are OP, and like Superman have their form of Kryptonite. Finish the Radiant novels then decided. I am in the vast minority in thinking that metalborn have more than a passing chance in a conflict with Radiants. I think the key to that is compounding not strait allomancy or feruchemy. Welcome to the shard.

I never mentioned a Tank that would come later. It doesn't matter if you think the numbers favor Windrunners/Skybreakers over Coinshots. A you don't know that will be the case, and B it is not just coinshots that they need to worry about. No that has been resolved. No it is a weakness of Rosharan magic that it can be co-opted by anyone. Given the current situations it is more likely that Roshar is divided so making an assumption of unity is naive especially given the warlike nature of both the Alethi and Odium. Break their dirt bodies first since they are surrounded. Nothing says there will be rock to form the body from. You don't know that. Any of it. Thousands of bullets and flack, of course they will be hit, and most wont have armor. Even the ones that do it will be a source of stormlight loss because of impacts if not entirely ineffective against some projectiles. Sorry I don't think you have thought this through and I disagree. You actually only need one medallion at a time to become a Fullborn if the first medallion grants Nicrosil compounding. Dealing with shards makes no difference since Roshar has practiced archaic war not modern war. They are not equivalent. Tsun Tsu's army would be wiped out in short order by Sherman's battalion. There really is no comparison. Only later would Rosharans start to get up to speed. You are overestimating Rosharan Magic, weapons, and tactics. No its more like what happened with the light, anti-light in the gemstone. I thought that was obvious. Another thing I thought was obvious was that the stunning of the Spren would be caused by the massive surge followed by no void light at all. At which point they are very vulnerable to capture at the very least. One other weakness to Thunderclasts is the material at hand. Maybe that is why we have seen them so seldom. Your loyalty and bias toward Roshar is admirable if misplaced. honestly I would have skipped responding to you like I have been for days if I didn't have time on my hands and if someone else had responded. I would have skipped it not because you have particularly insightful arguments, but just the opposite. At least the runner and Technivore among others force me to consider how to respond and frequently bring up challenging points even if I don't always see eye to eye with them. Really though you thought this discussion was out of ideas and yet you still respond to me. You keep saying the same things, and think that proves your bias. Yes but what shape will the united Roshar be in. You cannot assume it will simply consist of a merger of the current forces. You can assume that Scadrial might because their political situation appears to be mostly resolve or at least on the verge of it. Aluminum is the anti-metalborn answer. Of course it is also a general response to investiture as well. Metalborn don't need the mists to operate so anti-mists are kind of a non starter. It is the difference between stormlight and metal. one is a powersource, and the other is a bridge so what works for one wont necessarily work for the other, except Aluminum. Kaladin could very well be the exception since there are only 2 modern 4th oath Radiants and it has been stated that Higher oath radiants were few in the past compared to the total numbers. Again that was a relative statement so doesn't define specific limits. For now 4th oath radiants are about 1/100 if your estimate of total Radiants is accurate. I suspect Shallon with be 4th oath soon which will make it 1/70. The developments in RoW also potentially insures a drastic decline in the Spren population. Not all rock is equal or structurally durable, and thunderclasts are limited to the available materials. Yes potentially tactical geniuses in medievil warfare, but that doesn't compare to late 19th and early 20th century tactics. the differences in Tech is not 5-10 years but centuries. The difference in timeline is 5-10 years. Not the same. With their military focus Roshar could probably get up to speed quicker than other cultures, but would experience drastic losses in the beginning, and Scadrians wouldn't stop advancing as well. You will notice my own implied bias in the statement which I have chosen because I think Scadrial has been under represented. In actual fact I think this would be a nasty near equal contest with terrible casualties on both sides. From this time forward even Spren and Fused can be utterly destroyed not just become dead eyes or insane. I don't ignore the books cannon I just don't always agree with what others think is cannon. I really don't think metalborn would slap Radiants around like ragdolls, but I don't think the inverse is true either. Since I see a lack of that perspective I choose to focus on ways metalborn and Scadrians could challenge Radiants. First before we address the potential to create fullborn in era 2 let me address one of the supposed uber Radiant attacks. It has been stated by some that a bondsmith might be able to steal the bond from a metalborn, but because mistings and ferrings abilities don't rely on bonds for their magic like Radiants do don't think there would be a bond for a bondsmith to steal. Because of the nature of the abilities of a Nicrosil compounder to be able to store pure investiture there is the potential for them to become a full born. First they would need to get medallions (avoid hemalugy because of the spirit holes it creates) for each of the metal arts which you might need as few as 6 to 8 of each can store up to 3 powers. After the N-C stores each ability they compound that ability to gain both power and duration of its use. Then they do the same with each other medallion. Once they have stored and compounded each of the metalborn abilities they can then proceed to add the other 30 metalmind to compound those for both duration and power and stock up on those same metals for allomancy. It would be easiest to start with a N-C, but might be achieved using a Nicrosil compounder medallion as well. As a fullborn the N-C would be able to compound but would miss out on other forms of resonance that normal twins might develop. They might also need to be using 2 power at once to access their full adopted abilities. The limit to their degree of ability would be the storage capacity of their many metalminds and the sever leaning to really use those powers most effectively singly and in combination. The more likely situation to using Nicrosil this way would be squads of complimentary twinborn where they can become masters of specific abilities instead of a Jack of Trades of abilities. Any fullborn might want to master being a sparker first, followed by a slider to give them time to plan how to use their abilities most effectively on the verge of combat. Aluminum even for a fullborn would still be a potential problem, and perhaps more so. I think we will see aluminum cuffs in era 3 because it can potentially cause metalborn problems and inhibit their abilities. I think a fullborn created this way could fight at a 4th oath radiant to a draw and depending on what we 5th oaths able to do maybe them too in one on one combat. The balance might be tipped by any additional factors for either. I have shied away from hemalurgy for the same reason Hoid does. Too much downside for the power. Where a bondsmith might not affect other metalborn, they would almost certainly destroy a hemalurgic abomination which is why Harmony probably wont use Marsh in any conflict. Any Radiant who dared to use Hemalurgy would be increasingly vulnerable to being controlled and destroyed. I did think about it though. It is likely that only an aluminum compounder could use hemalurgy to their advantage to become a fullborn because they have the potential to erase any spirit holes created by the process while permanently adding connections to the various powers into their identity so might not become a hemalugic abomination. Thanks for the hemalurgic abomination mention though. Medallion method is safer and potentially more effective. Assuming that I haven't read or haven't sufficiently read to come to my own conclusions as to what is and is not cannon is also disingenuous. I don't think I have accused any of you of not following cannon in the books only in disagreeing with me on what is cannon or more often in over emphasizing some potentials while underplaying others. In response I have chosen to strongly emphasize some counter potentials while downplaying others. Thanks for the fullborn challenge. I suppose we could go into more specifics on how a fullborn would fare against the current ultimate Radiant. It would probably still come down to whether one or the other could arrange the situation to their advantage not to who has more powerful magic. Even the smallest thing could probably tip the scales in a fight at that level and I hate to consider the collateral damage that would be involved. That fight might make a great case study of the magics. Even how the fullborn was created would likely affect the contest. Of course that also opens the potential to squads of varied metaborn and squads of varied Radiants clashing. The learning curve for a created fullborn would be huge.

Your under estimating the difference and tactics of rifle tactics vs pike tactics in the conflict. Dropping from above doesn't guarantee a decisive strike but it does guarantee being open to crossfire, and Scadrian forces would likely not be confined to just the ground either. A few radiants have a seeming mobility advantage, but Scadrians have the potential to have a more general mobility advantage in the air. You also keep assuming that there will be many available Radiants, but at this time the Spren in general don't want to bond anyone and even an increase in their number doesn't guarantee a large number would bond anyone. Since Rosharans are enslaving Spren wholesale when they can there is the distinct possiblity that the existing spren would choose to bond with Scadrian invaders to end the wholesale slavery. In additions the vast majority of Radiant would not be of 4th oath and above and so would lack those defensive capabilities leaving them open to wholesale slaughter by the more advanced weapons and tactics of the Scadrians. If there are only about 100 metalborn who could take a 4th oath Radiant then it is a good thing there are only 3 Radiants of that oath thus far and no guarantee of there being more. Nor is there a guarantee that there will be more radiants to progress through the oath at all in the future beyond what exist now and the likelyhood that the number of Spren will actually decline due to the current war on Roshar. A thunderclast can also be dealt with by trapping the Voidspren in an aluminum cage or net either before they form the thunderclast or after demolishing the stone body. Oh and they only form a stone body if there is stone to form it from and they seem to be exceedingly rare. They also need time to form the stone body so forming in the Scadrian camp is a recipe for being demolished before they finish. Draining stormlight from the Spren also effectively disables it. Wax's real genius isn't in his marksmanship but in his defensive and manipulation abilities, which is why he survives so many encounters he gets involved in. Even the most talented or skilled marksman would have trouble hitting him. The Rosharan's don't have the same defensive skills since they rely strongly on being able to absorb damage instead of avoiding it. The faster a Radiant lashes toward the rifles the more of an impact they will need to absorb from the bullets and other projectiles and again due to their tech Scadrians don't need to clump up so can effectively attack the few Radiants who rush in from virtually all sides from cover. One other potential weapon in the Scadrian arseal are Nicrosil compounding medalions which have the potential to turn almost any soldier into a fullborn for a time. You don't actually need to have a large portion of the population to have snapped even though a war would likely cause that as well. I was siting related abilities from a different universe, but one that Brandon used as a basis to his allomancy. The mechanics of emotional allomancy allow for a form of battle meditation in the Cosmere. You think a Zinc compounder commander would be working alone? No. They would be able to get the intelligence nessisary to determine where and when Rosharan's were massing for battle and direct fire at the optimal time to break them up. Any attacks with small Rosharan forces could be overwhelmed in short order by the weapons, magic, and tactics of Scadrians. The melee tactics of Roshar are history to Scadiral so are easily anticipated and countered, but Roshar has never seen anything like the tactics Scadrial would use. I get your loyalty to the Rosharans and the surface advantage you and others have for them, but you still haven't been able to convince me that the surface advantages or Roshar translate to an actual decisive advantage on their part over Scadrians. Please don't mistake me. I can see how each side could leverage an advantage temporarily over the other, just not decisively so overall. I don't expect to be able to convince all of you of that. I choose to side with Scadrial because no one else seems to want to. If the discussion had been more balanced up to this point I would probably have played both sides, but it hasn't so I picked a side. The more we discuss this the more restricted I think Rosharn magic and tech are. Odds are that when the conflict actually takes place Scadrial will be in the position of being able to orbitally bombard Roshar and space will be so populated so as to vastly increase the distances of travel in the CR. Cannons can have ranges in the miles/km's, and some Rifles over a mile of effective range though it is a rare person indeed who can make that shot. I should know I am a marksman. My effective range with my rifles is about 1/2 km. Larkins do almost immediately strip all the void light from Fused though effectively rendering them powerless. Oh and fast is a relative term not a definitive limit. You know a nicroburst might cause a thunderclast to explode and then the spen would be disabled for a time. To avoid injury use a primer cube grenade for the affect from cover.

In the hands of a Nicrosil compounder every metalborn granting medallion becomes weapons grade. A Soulbearer can store investiture in a metalmind so given at least 32 metalminds they can store the entire range of metalborn abilities and with at least one other they can systematically compound each and everyone of those abilities to grant extended use of them and scale them up to first generation power level. They could then train and practice to cross combine them in any number of ways to create a fully compounding fullborn with the ability to enhance or magnify all their allies. A Zinc compounder would be like Revan able to see, understand, and counter any Rosharan tactic or strategy before they were able to use it, and to use their riot abilities to create a form of battle meditation creating a more cohesive force with their allies and disrupting the cohesiveness of enemy soldiers. I am telling you these are just 2 ways that show Scadrians are seriously underestimated on this topic. I think one of the main underlying assumptions behind that underestimation is that metalborn and radiants would play by the same tactics and rules of engagement, but that is naive given both the difference in Tech and culture. I suggested Arthur and Sherman intentionally instead of some other civil war era general. Frustrations contention of Scadrians being unable to reach the CR is moot since at this point that is the only avenue open to facilitating this conflict so it must be assumed that they can, besides there are Scadrian on Roshar already so it is possible. This would not be line up and fight conflict favoring Roshar, but a cover and shoot the enemy conflict. Yes some Radiants can fly and be shot out of the open sky. any massing of Rosharan forces leaves them vulnerable to artillery and rapid fire weapons long before they are in range to fight. Rosharan fabrials and weapons have ranges in feet, but Scadrian tech has ranges in thousands of yards and their fabrials serve as ability enhancers making their magic and tech that much more deadly from any range. Frustration also made the statement that it was David's faith that allowed him to win against Goliath, but his Faith in God in reality gave him the confidence to try. It was his skill with the sling that won the day. A skill that he thanked God for, never the less it was his work and practice with it that developed that God given skill. Wax's skill with the gun is attributed to the same dedication to develop his skill, which means that anyone who worked hard enough at it could achieve skill at or near his level with time. Plus with rapid fire weapons you don't need as much skill to hit a target. I will reiterate that in my opinion this conflict will almost never develop into a toe to toe fight, and if in the rare instance that it does there are metalborn that could be a serious challenge to any oath level of metalborn. In addition to that it is also likely that the conflict itself would snap additional metalborn. All Scadrian soldiers would probably carry a small supply of allomantic metal both in case they snap and as a reserve for those who have. Since some continue to bring up Thunderclasts I will address this. Seeming ways to fight them is with hammers, so use concusive force to disable them, and use weapons which drain investiture. As such leeches would be dangerous to them permanently as would artillery to continually disable them. A big cannon ball would do the job of shattering their stone bodies over and over. Add explosives to that and they might never be able to take more than a few steps before being demolished. Again from a long distance. If the ever got close enough to actually engage the Scadrians they better pray there are no leechers among the metalborn. I am sorry you will all need to do better to prove to me that this conflict is as one sided as you seem to believe. I don't buy it i think you are overlooking and underestimating far to many factors to be convinced.

Following Kagi's metal day at school several of the students pointed, ridiculed, and bullied him thinking him to be an easy target since he didn't have a recognizable metal on his arms. One said he was nothing but a gnat, another pretended to trip into him knocking him down during break. He kept a stiff upper lip throughout the day, but inside he determined that learn all he could to show his abilities weren't useless. Since his father was a craftsman he regularly visited other craftsmen in his free time. From his father he was learning the basics of pottery. Just down the street was a smith that let him watch as he worked the metal. There were coopers and carpenters that let him spend time with them. His father encouraged him to explore skills of the various crofters and merchants in town to help him discover what he wanted to pursue as he got older. Kagi discovered by accident as he got angry at the bullying that he could store the part of his identity that inclined him to anger causing him to be more patient. Like soothing could cause some emotions to become prominent by minimizing others he could focus and refine parts of his identity by minimizing others.

No I am argueing that guns in the hands of metalborn are extremely deadly. That some metalborn war capabilities lie in R&D of counter Radiant weaponry and tactics. That some metalborn are deadly all on their own and can stand toe to toe as well as kill any oath level of Radiants from a distance. I finally like some have said that many metalborn abilities lend themselves to lethal covert war tactics that Radiants would find hard to counter. Sure Jasnah is a terror to ordinary soldiers in combat, but her real advantage is in her soulcasting not her weapon skills. Any number of metalborn could match her combat prowess or even remove her from combat at a distance before her soulcasting became an issue. Most thugs and tin metal born could match Wax in marksmanship and marksmanship with guns is much easier to train than melee martial skills. Our own modern marines are near as good a Wax fresh out of boot camp. You don't need an outstanding marksman to shoot a Radiant out of the sky just enough bullets. Gravity lashings and velocity toward the marksman only increases the momentum of the bullets and projectiles that hit. Honestly I think you have been overestimating Radiants this whole time. Attack from the CR assumes that a commander would leave that back door open because for now the CR is the only option to get to Roshar, and Radiants are even more vulnerable to attack from metalborn there than planetside. You really wouldn't need many gun armed troops there to wipe out any group of Radiants there. The momentum of Radiants falling from the stratosphere ensures their death from the crossfire coming at them from below and the airships in the sky. Getting to the stratosphere with big rocks might even exhaust their stormlight in the process. which is another death sentence in the mean time their army is being shelled into oblivion by extremely accurate metalborn gunners. Magic and technology work hand in hand on Scadrial creating breakthroughs for both. Anit-thug rounds are practically armor piercing. Odium is not making more fused and only converts regular pre-existing lesser spren. Stormfather can't just make more spren, and newly born spren are little more than children for potentially centuries so wouldn't be immediately useful, however war could potentially snap any Scadrian involved vastly increasing the numbers of metalborn. Half shard are useful against a melee weapon wielding foe, but against rifle armed soldiers they are almost useless. Painrials again have very limited use unless you can get very close. This will almost never be a hand to hand fight between Radiants and Metalborn. Much of it wont even be close range. Why when you can just shoot someone would you ever let them in close. We are looking at a battle between King Arthur and General Sherman with super soldiers on both sides. Harmony doesn't need to make more metalborn they will occur naturally because of the conflict because all scadrians have the inactive ability to be metalborn. Everyone of the military fabrials lack range. In addition you didn't describe the construction of the specific attactor or repulsor fabrials which is no surprise since we haven't seen any that do those things in the books yet. What gems and metals would you use for them to attract or repel metal and what spren would you need. Oh many of the weapons could double as metalminds as well with all that implies. No enough rounds makes anyone a hittable target even by average marksmen. Skybreakers dropping from the sky see response above. Metalborn don't need more than average skill to be very effective with fire arms. All of the Scadrians could snap during a war.

I'll grant Radiants could have bloodmaker, potential thug strength and speed (not steel speed), gasper, and subsumer abilities so long as the stormlight lasts or isn't neutralized or blocked. Iron compounder nice image. Virtually all Radiant surges have a very limited range, and until they are in range useless. In addition a radiant in the air has no cover so will be under fire for some time. Instant kill swords don't work until you reach Melee range but high velosity projectiles work the whole time you are trying to close the distance. In the hands of either thugs or tin metal born those high velocity rounds would be potentially lethal. Perhaps even in the hands of a sparker. Any twin combination that includes any of those three would be even more dangerous. Assuming that a fight between a Radiant and a Metalborn would be toe to toe is naive. Each would be using their best weapons and skills. If the Radiant was able to close the distance in most cases they would have the advantage, but that is a big if. In addition most Radiants aren't anywhere near as talented as Kaladin. Jasna is more of a sorcerous not a warrior, and Shallon is more of a Rogue and are both less capable in a toe to toe fight. Dalinar on the other hand is handicapped by his order since he is still a novice in his surges, but is beyond Kaladin in combat skill. Aluminum shrapnel for mines and explosives would be a real problem for any Radiants. A thug bloodmaker has a chance toe to toe if the Radiant closes the distance before being filled full of projectiles. A thug could use a Recoiless rifle or something like it from extreme range. He could also pull a rambo or comando with a 50 cal. machine gun. A steel compounder has the chance to overwhelm any order of radiant one on one. They could move fast enough to avoid being hit, add their momentum to their pushes and strike so often and hard so as to bleed the Radiants stormlight. If they did get hit by chance then yes they would lose but I put that in 5/100 chance in a strait toe to toe fight. and less than 1/100 with pushes and firearms in the mix. An Iron compounders chances depend on where the fight takes place and what is available, and also what metal the Radiant has on them not covered by armor. Though with enough weight even the armor might be susceptible to an Iron pull. Yes metalborn are limited to a very small portion of the population, but Radiants are limited to only a few thousand spren so the larger population of Roshar isn't really an issue in the conflict. You have a few thousand metal born vs a few thousand Radiants. I don't think there are 10k to 20k Radiants and Fused. That seems like an overestimate. I will grant that Radiants are in close combat are usually more potent, but you can't count on their close combat advantage. David beat Goliath because he was a skilled marksman and Goliath couldn't close with him before he was disabled. There is a high probability that the Rosharan's would have the same problem. That's just it the article I quoted explains that it isn't about the amount you tap but the amount of time you compress the storage when you tap. Compressing time converts some of the storage to facilitate tapping faster. Even though it seems like a person is tapping large amounts it is only large if it is tapped faster than it was stored. Compounding hacks feruchemy and potentially allomancy, but we don't know those mechanics. We do know that Scadrial has haze killer rounds which are comparable to high velocity armor piercing heavy slugs and that they have machine guns. So we don't need to project much into potential developments given their current tech only into more mass production and specialized materials they already have. The Radiants still need to reach a place to drop from without detection and would still be exposed to un-shielded cross fire from below during the drop potentially from multiple machine guns. They would be better to try a kinetic lash strike where maybe they could lash a rock to run out of stormlight in time to fall into the enemy, but that would require a lot of precision and trial and error. The potential spren shield only protects them from direct strikes not cross fire from all sides from hundreds to thousands of rounds per minute and possibly per second. With bronze and tin allomancy surprise is not on the Radiants side. Land mines are simply explosives with a trigger and that is not beyond where Scadrial is now. In the dark between battle or by steel runners and coinshot lurcher pairs. Metal born don't glow in the dark. Artillery can only be destroyed if you can get into range and that would be costly in terms of troops and Radiants. Lightweavers illusions would still give off a pulse that seekers or windwhisper seekers could detect. No a seeker sparker would be a great assassin able to follow their target without detection until the target lets their guard down to deal a lethal strike. You are assuming that many of the so called useless metalborn will need to get close enough for a one on one fight, and that is just not the case. Even they are going to fight to their strengths and exploit Radiant weaknesses. I watched a movie called the art of self defense where the protagonist challenged a much more skilled martial artist to a fight to the death. Right at the beginning of the fight he pulled a pistol and shot the karate expert in the head. it is the David and Goliath situation where the marksman has a huge advantage over the melee combatant. Radiants are at less of a disadvantage than most but not enough to entirely negate the marksman advantage of Scadrial when paired with metalborn abilities. Roshars fabrials are not military weapons and you cannot assume they will be. Show me one that is weapons grade that they currently have. Every metalborn ability has some military application especially if paired with Scadrian Fabrials. Spren don't breed and their population is still very limited. I don't recall anywhere that it implies otherwise. Everytime Odium creates more fused he disperses his power. There is a reason he wont make more fused. I think it was either Raboniel or Leshwe or both that said he wont make more. It could be the stress and injury of war that snaps Scadrians, so Harmon doesn't need to do a thing. The potential is in every one of them, and being twinborn is in every Terris decendant as they have mixed with the general population. Comparing arrows to bullets is apples to oranges their both projectiles but not even close to the same magnitude.

it is actually very difficult for me to provide quotes from the books since I don't actually own any and I listen to them not actually read them. So take that for what it is worth. Wax talks about walking around storing investiture, but he rarely taps it at the rate he stored it. He usually compressed it does quick store taps during steel pushes. For that matter most people seem to compress the time when they tap, while spending days, hours, weeks, months or, or even years storing. I think Khriss talks about it in the Ars archanum at the end of book mistborn books. This is a better WoB on Feruchemy. Though when Brandon says compound he is referring to compressing time as you may note by the context. Sporkify This is more towards the whole physics stuff, but is Feruchemy really balanced? If it gives diminishing returns, wouldn't this end up as a net loss of power? Brandon Sanderson It doesn't diminish. Or, well, it does—but only if you compound it. You get 1 for 1 back, but compounding the power requires an expenditure of the power itself. For instance, if you are weak for one hour, you can gain the lost strength for one hour. But that's not really that much strength. After all, you probably weren't as weak as zero people during that time. So if you want to be as strong as two men, you couldn't do it for a full hour. You'd have to spend some energy to compound, then spend the compounded energy itself. In more mathematical terms, let's say you spend one hour at 50% strength. You could then spend one hour at 150% strength, or perhaps 25 min at 200% strength, or maybe 10min at 250% strength. Each increment is harder, and therefore 'strains' you more and burns your energy more quickly. And since most Feruchemists don't store at 50% strength, but instead at something like 80% strength (it feels like much more when they do it, but you can't really push the body to that much forced weakness without risking death) you can burn through a few day's strength in a very short time if you aren't careful. Footnote: This question was asked when fueling Feruchemy with Allomancy had only been seen in Rashek. As such, the term compounding is used purely to reference tapping at a higher rate than can be stored. Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008) Yes and they are developing haze killer rounds, and explosives and have very advanced metallurgy which will benefit further swift advancements in both projectiles and guns among other things. Drop from above. they need to get above first and still potentially survive a hail of large caliber rounds. Radiants don't yet have the ability to pop back out of the cognative at will and if there are troops in the cognative in that area the radiants are even more vulnerable. Land mines and artillery could cause complications for earth bound Radiants even with their sheilds. copper and bronze can counter illusions and land mines and traps don't notice them. Stonewards if they traveled far enough underground might evade traps, mines, and artillery, but if not a barrier would be of limited use. Keep your Bondsmith back for fuel and protection. I am sorry I know Brandon says he doesn't gain any piercing resistance, but he also doesn't end up with scratches, scrapes, cuts, and splinters when he crashes through floors which seems to imply that he has yet to achieve a density that has noticeable resistance to high velocity piercing damage like bullets and perhaps only with insane weight would there even start to be. Mostly only Bones and muscles would even need any increased density to handle the increased weight. F-Tin, Look outs and snipers and spies. F-copper, Scientist and Researcher. F-Bronze, Watchmen and sentries. Potentially assasins since they can wait until just the right moment when the enemy is unaware. F-Cadmium, Frog men able to attack from water or within poison clouds. F-bendalloy, great behind the lines soldiers since they need no supply line. Saboteurs. able to travel very light and through desolate terain. F-Electrum. Think Die hard. soldiers who never quit no matter what so long as they live. Syl seemed to think she could become many different things but being rigid might be required. If not a shardwhip would be cool. Maybe the windspren could do it. I don't remember Jasna shaking the ground when she fought in Shardplate, but I could have missed that. Dead plate is certainly is. @bmcclure7 I think your right era 4 scadrial era 2 roshar.

I think your idea has merit. Everything about a person is contained within an Identity including their connections and investiture. Check out my Fan fic on this topic. Identity weaver. By no means do I claim it is cannon. It was interesting enough that Technovore wanted to use my Aluminum compounder character though.

According to Wax in BoM energy/light are investiture. So the right wavelength and rhythm of Light would act like anti-void or storm light. Not both at the same time. Do you think anti-warlight would be dangerous to both Radians and Fused? Thanks for the BoM 22 reference. It does contain ettmetal thanks for that. There must be more to it though because exposed ettmetal is very volatile. Even though has ettmetal it still projects leaching from a distance. That opens the speculation that with great enough magnitude (ettmetal certainly seems to increase magnitude) a leecher could do the same thing from a distance. It contradicts what Wax, Khriss, and Sazed say about Feruchemy that you can tap something as fast as you stored it without loss, only when compressing the time to tap do you lose some storage to conversion regardless how fast it was stored or tapped. The WoB question quoted was very open, generic, and vague, so the response was also generally true, vague and potentially misleading as a result. You can store light in sand though in the Cosmere. Plus the light might be escaping because of impurities and imperfections. I never said that Radiants couldn't soulcast without gems. That brings up what you might make a fabrial from to block Cadmium allomancy or or in other words create a cadmium suppressor? That would be a creative use of Rosharan Magic. Aluminum causes metal and power to vanish (allomancy and hemulurgy respectively). It doesn't leech, they are just gone. So it does disrupt, but it also blocks which still seems to me to be a form of disruption. In fabrials it blocks or disrupts certain vectors depending on how it is placed. It can also disrupt feruchemical and radiant healing as well as pewter. These effects are all in its article on the Coppermind. It also disrupts and reverses withering. It seems that it depends on how it is used whether it simply blocks or disrupts. I will grant Brandon is squishy on fortune. We have it described as luck and as foresight, but he has been vague and evasive on the subject. With enough luck or foresight you would have the weapons, equipment, allies, and skills you need for any situation. Compounding has the potential to supply that. See my response on that one WoB and ettmetal above. I asked for the link because I was drawing a blank on where to find the cubes make up. It does have ettmetal, but likely isn't ettmetal since that would be way to volatile. Sorry man with melee weapon is at a severe disadvantage to man with gun even when man with sword can fly especially when man with gun may have his own physically enhancing abilities. The Radiant might not even reach grenade range before having to retreat or die given the potential variety of ammunition and gun available. Sazed comments on many feruchemical powers including speed (for one he said it was difficult to store) and goes into detail on storing and tapping various metals. Wax comments on storing and tapping weight. He usually goes around at 75% storing the other 25%. In addition he stores extra weight when he travels by coin. His feats of massive tapping often use thousands of hours of storing in mere moments but those are rare about 1 per book. Wax is a riddle because he says that he gains no additional resistance, but time and again it is implied that he does when he taps massive weight. It is explicitly described that his crush resistance changes because of the weight he taps particularly in the train car scene. That is not explained away by some spiritual weight place holder, it is a physical affect. Yes the ability to tap losslessly for an Iron compounder would change the dynamics of combat with a Radiant. Just a side note Brandon couldn't think of a reason why Wax wouldn't be bullet resistant when he tapped weight which is why he said it doesn't resist penetration, but if different parts of the body change density at different rates then unless a bullet hit a bone (likely the most density increase) penetration resistance could be almost nothing until very extreme weights were achieved. Water in the body would never change density. Muscle density might eventually make a noticeable difference in places where structural support was needed. Anyway with increased mass and density there would be a proportional amount of increased strength in both body and more particularly allomancy enabling incredible stability and massively powerful strikes. Mostly though we are discussing compounding Iron as an example of compounding generally with something physical to relate to. Many abilities are more esoteric and thus hard to nail down. What would it even mean to have 1 million times more connection, mental speed, investiture or determination? We have also tried fortune, but as you pointed out what does that even mean either. Any of these in sufficient quantity might have an affect in a battle with a Radiant, but that affect would be hard to define. Wakefulness so you are always ready for when the Radiant is off guard even if it is only once per year. Yeah for humans on Taldain it is complicated to access investiture. It comes from the sunlight to the organism in the sand then to humans. Shard whip would be a solid flexable thing like a long piece of invested rubber. Division might act to create thrust if properly controlled. They might need fuel or might work like ram jets creating changes in pressure. I am not sure that summoning a shard means it needs to be rigid. I could just see a whip wielding winddancer flicking fused out of the air from yards away. No telling how long the whip could be. Does living plate need to be heavy? Kal's plate is made out of wind spren for goodness sake. Did they suddenly take on allot of mass when they became plate? Living plate seems to act more like a force shield than actual armor. If the living shardplate isn't heavy then edgedancer might be able to glide at times with shardwings. Like I said a conflict between Rosharan's and Scadrian's could be far more interesting than just near invulnerable armor, magic swords and rapid healing on one side, and clandestine attacks from cover or dark on the other. Up until now I have been trying to show that armor is not invulnerable, the swords are not the end all weapon, and the healing is not unbeatable on Roshars side by proposing potentially possible and often extreme Scadrian counters.

Mist on Scadrial is not made up of water like fog, nor does it act exactly like it is. For instance it doesn't cross boundaries nor is there ever a comment on the air being more humid. You still haven't addressed that energy of which light is a form, metal, and soul are the same in the Cosmere. After the perpendicularity closed Jasna found it increasingly more difficult to Soulcast. Her ability to seemingly soulcast effortlessly has to do with her skill, practice and perhaps her oath level. Still she finds it more difficult than she did during that battle because of the relative closeness or separation of the realms. Blocks or disrupts what is the difference? From Iron Copper mind: "There are two general rules for ironpulling, which also apply to steelpushing, its paired opposite. The first rule is that the strength of your pull is roughly proportional to your physical mass. This means that larger Allomancers can generally ironpull and steelpush more powerfully than a smaller counterpart. While proportional, the force exerted by an ironpull is much greater than the Lurcher's weight," Mass affects Steel and Iron as more than just an anchor. Look if you increase your fortune 1 million times in just 5 compounds it would enable insane foresight or luck. that is just 5 times each additional time beyond that is 10 times more. At the very least that is a 1 million seconds (277 years) at twice you natural luck after 5 compounds. Another way to look at it is a long life time at 6 times your natural luck. At six compoundings 60 times then 600 times then 6,000 times, then 60,000 times, then 600,000 times, and finally 6 million times for a life time in a total of 10 compoundings even if the initial time spent storing is only 1 second. Every form of compounding is about increasing a power or attribute by geometric scale tappable without loss in the time it took to store initially. Feruchemy is lossless so long as you don't compress the time. Give me a link to where the cubes are described as ette metal? They are used as primers for ette metal fuel in the southern air ships, but they act more like nicrosil themselves. Nicrosil stores or enhances investiture. The Radiant needs to reach close range, and you have been assuming a lot of speed and maneuverability vs fire arms projectiles and explosives. I don't think we have concrete examples to support that assumption. Even subsonic bullets traveling 600 ft/sec have a velocity of 216,000 mph and those are slow bullets. So forming a shield or changing direction before impact is highly unlikely even for a Radiant. If the ammunition is aluminum the Radiant can afford a single hit either. Explosive or armor piercing rounds would also be a problem as would rapid fire weapons. Suppressor fabrial would work if it were keyed to suppress cadmium. Though I am not sure how they would come up with one that did. Perhaps I am mistaken but the cube did seem to leech Wax at a distance. I don't remember it actually hitting him. Right if they have the chance to breath in stormlight they will likely survive that strike, but all that stormlight used all at once fueling a gravity lashing into a solid barrier would be spectacular and very quick. No plate it might be rotten tomato. It might also be interesting whether the wall gets knocked down or the Radiant goes splat or some combination. Your WoB contradicts the explicit description in the Coppermind, by Wax, and by Sazed. It is also a paraphrase of what the person thinks they asked and the response they think they received. In addition we don't have a recording to verify how accurate the person was. Even though it is included in WoB's we can't be sure it is exactly what Brandon said or what was actually asked. No I am no arbiter of objectivity only Brandon is in this instance. I am an arbiter of whether someone shares my subjective opinion, and grant that others have their own subjective opinions which I may or may not share mine in full or in part. The whole world was objectively flat according to everybody at the time, except that was actually a subjective fact taken as objective. When we see how Brandon treats these abilities in his books then we will know what is objective. His treatment of Iron Feruchemy from my perspective leaves room for supposition. Wax has a subjective opinion which from his experience is accurate, but is still limited to his restrictions on storing. Water isn't a metal, or energy so is not actually the same. It is a fungus or lifeform living on the sand that converts the light into investiture on Taldain(?). That was from the intro to white sand in Arcanum Unbound. Here is a creative use of Rosharan weaponry. A shardbullwhip instead of a Shardsword. That could be interesting. Shard jet boots on dustbringers plate to fly with using Division. they might even be able to form Shard wings for stability.

Threnody thanks for the correction glad you understood. What do you think the downsides of aluminum savantism might be? I think you misunderstood I was refering to the battle in Oath bringer where Dalinar first opened a perpendicularity. As for an aluminum bubble I got that Idea from it creating a bubble of disruption within a bendalloy bubble. It is also stated that it disrupts gravity surges and other directed surges. In the descriptions the strength of both steel and iron are affected by their mass. We really haven't seen anyone with the amount of fortune possible with compounded chromium. You might almost imagine someone like that to be like Scooby, inspector gadget, or get Smart on steroids. For that matter they might be like how Jackie Chan's characters appear luckily surviving encounters. Thug/Soulbearers would also likely be far more accurate and able to use heavy projectile weapons as well. They would also be able to fire those rounds much more rapidly and at greater range. Once in close they could also use heavier melee weapons and would have a greater healing ability and pain resistance than average. Using nicrosil grenades would be about timing. Someone launched into space by their own gravity lashing would likely have time to suck in stormlight. If they were headed down or toward and obstacle they might not have enough time to suck up stormlight before impact. A grenade launcher with sights would be a great way to to get the grenade on target. The fact that the Nicrosil cube doesn't actually need to hit you also implies that Nicroburst's might also develop ranged use of their abilities in the future. A cadmium allomancer with Nicrosil cubes might not have the same problem. The Radiant frozen in time by the nicrosil cube would have a big problem. Again it would be timing that would be crucial. There is not real surprise since Scadrials more modern weaponry would be used in conjunction with their magic. Separating them would be like separating Fabrials, and shards from Radiants. Except there is not specific oath requirement that restricts Scadrian Tech. I am not willing to put the effort into more creative surge use since that is your preference and or bias. here is the source of your WoB https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2422-hal-con/#comment-44676 where he says this "The majority of these questions and answers are paraphrased, as I wasn't able to record them, and I wasn't able to write everything down exactly as it was said. If the answer was a partial evasion, I did make sure to make special note of it, so those answers should be as said." That WoB may seem clear but it is contradictory and may not be accurate. Other WoB's are old enough and examples of him not wanting to reveal information at the time which has been updated. So when you quote be sure to look at both dates and sources of the WoB. Again it seems that the coppermind is updated as new WoB's come out. I don't think the allomantic grenade was ette metal. I think it was nicrosil and was used as a spark for the ette metal fuel in the ship. Ette metal as the cubes material would be way to dangerous. Used as high explosives it would be great. I have long been disabused of the idea that people in this thread are being objective. To assume that if someone agrees with you they are being objective is a fallacy, as is assuming that if someone disagrees with you they are not being objective. From my perspective almost all comments are subjective until I see otherwise and I take them as such. If light had no mass solar sails wouldn't work. Oh and Jasna said that Shallon's illusions had mass since light has some mass. Sunlight from Taldain's sun is still light unless you think Taldain's sun is fundamentally different than other stars in the Cosmere? Light is energy and energy is investiture in the Cosmere, along with metal and soul they are all the same thing in different forms. More opportunity to burn aluminum. Also likely burning more aluminum and burning it more often.

Aluminum is unique. Hemalugically it is the only metal that doesn't steal attributes or power. You cannot use it to transfer abilities from one person to another. I looked at the hemalugic bind point illustration for steel inquisitors and saw that the bind points available for aluminum were in a pair of locations on both sides of the pelvis, both fore arms, and both shin. Now if they were put there these aluminum hemalugic spikes would render the inquisitor powerless regardless what other spikes they have. (aluminum spike handcuffs and shackles anyone). Hemalurgic aluminum strait up removes powers. On Roshar that could be interpreted as surges, bonds, or invested light. healing and extra physical ability are also powers. In additions it doesn't just remove some power but all powers and I reason that the most effective way to do that to a Radian would be to act as a stormlight sink to remove stormlight. Brandon also said that aluminum in the body interferes and or interacts with power in the body. (much of this comes from the foot notes on aluminum). One other thing about aluminum is that Brandon said allomantic aluminum would be more effective at removing withering than feruchemical gold. From what I have seen that appears to be one of the most devastating invested ailments in the Cosmere. It has also been implied that a Savant might be able to remove not just invested injuries, but other forms of impurity as well. I think you would practically need to be an aluminum compounder to become a savant. An aluminum twin probably wouldn't need silver on Nalthis. Jasnah was particularly effective during the battle because the 3 realms were practically merged in the region due to the Dalinar perpendicularity. "And how would aluminum neutralize/resist Surges? Unless you encase the entire person (i.e. head to toe and no gaps), Reverse Lashing could affect them, and even if they are fully encased in Aluminum, Division could still set the ground on fire, Soulcasting could still create tomb/oil on fire, Lightweaver could still blind them/fool them, Cohesion could still shape stone and trap their feet. Tension and Abrasion would be difficult, but Radiant could still apply it to themselves and have either better protection or better mobility." I will address this. Indirect attacks are a great option when the target can counter a direct strike. An aluminum nat would be all but impossible to directly use a surge on against their will. Trapping his feet with cohesion requires time and contact near those feet. Abrasion, adhesion, soulcasting, division or any other surge used directly as quick as he can burn aluminum. If he moved quickly enough he might disrupt any surge used near him by passing through it just like he can disrupt bendalloy bubbles and an area around himself (yeah it creates a small bubble itself only evident in contrast to other nearby investiture. Which might mean the ground below his is also not going to be surgeable. You seem so knowledgeable that i am surprised I even need to explain this to you. You want to know who could likely go toe to toe with a Radiant. Obviously steel and iron compounders. After just 5 compounding sessions either has 1,000,000 times more attribute than they started with (that is the same with all compounders). that level of speed or mass would provide incredible allomanic and physical abilities. Brandon may say that F-iron doesn't increase density, but in the books he shows that their is an effect on density. What it doesn't obviously provide is density against penetration,but broken bones it has been shown to strongly resist that as well as giving proportionally greater strength. 1 million time stronger structure and muscle strength may even give the ability to affect shards with allomancy. Another toe to toe possibility is a Chromium compounder. 1 million times more luck/fortune would likely always being in the right place with the right resources to kill a Radiant. A thug/soulbearer would likely have the stored invested physical abilities to outclass any radiant and given the right equipment would likely win most engagements toe to toe. With enough time to prepare a sparker/slider would likely be able to gun down 3rd oath and below from the safety of a bubble and perhaps win by booby trap any oath level. A cadmium misting armed with nicrosil grenades could turn anyone into a sitting duck so might also be able to kill most radiants. I can only imagine the havoc a Nicrosil twin with nicrosil grenades would cause especially if they had some kind of grenade launcher. (grenade activates near a windrunner and suddenly his gravity lashing launches him into space, a wall, the ground or just really fast then his stormlight is gone. Hopefully their shardplate survives any impact because their healing is also gone.) I'll leave it up to you to come up with creative surge use since you are the ones mostly promoting Rosharan magic winning. From the Feruchemy coppermind we get this mechanic for Feruchemy: when a Feruchemist is tapping an attribute at the same rate it was stored, they are able to get out exactly what they put in, for example, if they store 50% of their strength for one hour they can tap that and be at 150% of their strength for one hour. However, if the Feruchemist taps at a greater rate, then some of the attribute is lost, So long as you don't tap the stored attribute faster than it was stored, 1 hour, or 1 day for example you always get back what you store. The WoB you quoted doesn't account for this. Yes I know it says tapping large amounts but if you go the origional source the author of the question admits to paraphrasing his questions and responses so the coppermind has the more complete response or description of the mechanics. This is one example of where a WoB is vague or potentially inaccurate or of limited accuracy. I have notices that Brandon has a tendency to limit his responses to only the most narrow circumstances so as to retain some Cosmere surprises. One thing you would never guess is that leeching can be done without touching someone, but Nicrosil grenades leech at a distance without touching you so could leeching at a distance be done by a person with enough skill like soulcasting can? After all nicrosil grenades show that distance leeching is possible. I see your disputes and many times my first mental response it you haven't really thought it through. Even the WoB's you quote can be interpreted in multiple ways that don't nessisarily support the position you propose, but I look them up anyway and as often as not disregard them because I don't think they say what you think they say. I have quoted many articles in the course of this discussion (I am very selective of what I quote because so many can be interpreted in multiple ways or contradict each other), but when others disregard them I choose not to continue to quote them. You on the other hand keep quoting the same WoB's presuming that I will change my mind on what they say or how accurate they are like the one about tapping massive attributes. Always consider the context, the source, and any other canonical information on the subject before you assume it supports your position. Aluminum blocks shardblades and for now that is Brandon's position (I found that in the footnotes of Aluminum) His team is still debating the topic. That could mean that even a thin sheet of aluminum foil will stop a shardblade since we have never seen a shardblade cut anything made of aluminum. The coppermind gives the proviso that if it is thick enough without saying how thick. Nightblood's scabard can stop a shardblade slash from Nightblood itself. Scabards are not usually very thick and one made of aluminum would likely bend or even be cut through if struck by a regular sword. This discussion has not been objective. It is entirely subjective on both sides and to assume it is not is unrealistic. The best anyone can hope for is that someone else will accept their subjective opinion. You all seem to think I should accept your subjective opinions as objective while rejecting my own subjective opinion, and that wont happen. I may grant that I can see your subjective position and where it comes from and maybe even think it is rational or even likely, but I get very frustrated that many times maybe even most you all wont do the same. @Frustration Light also has mass. It is minuscule but it does have some. So that is not a difference between light and stomlight. Incidentally sunlight gives investiture to sand on Taldain. So the right frequency and pulse of light will destroy stormlight and kill Radiants along with their spren.

Brandon didn't have a scientific explanation of why increasing mass without increasing density especially for a strait skimmer. A strait skimmer like Wax has a limited amount of mass that they can store so that would be the first thing to limit their effective overall density. Another way I rationalize a density increase without much change to penetration resistance is that not everything increases in density at the same rate and some things in the body don't increase at all. To remain standing bone density must increase much more than anything else, and to be able to continue to move normally muscle density must also increase though not nearly as much as bone density. Most of the body is water and it wont increase at all. Other tissues like skin might not increase density or if they do only very minimally. If there are major differences, as I presume, to density increases in different parts of the body then it would take significant magnitude to start to see an effect on projectiles, but it would occur if the mass increased enough. Thanks for the list. One thing aluminum twins would be is largely immune to surge attacks and capable of reversing shard damage. Beyond that other things I have imagined for their potential are educated extreme speculation based on the one thing it can store and why I think that makes it able to counter investiture and power. Aluminum is a blackhole to investiture of any kind except Identity and I think there is a reason for that an aluminum twin might be able to tap into. Check out my fan fic but don't expect it to be strictly Cosmere accurate to what is proven. Most twins would be most effective in a support position to any armed conflict. Since you guys are more often on the side that Roshar is the nearly inevitable victor in a conflict I will leave the creative uses of the surges to you. It seems most of the surge applications that are quoted are brute force applications which from my perspective aluminum can both neutralize and resist. Of course we can predict developments since we have the ground rules for the system. Not all of them since some of those ground rules are vague. One of those developments is that we cannot predict how or when the conflict will start. Neither side can reach the other in force at this time and Radiants are particularly stuck for now. We do know Scadrians will have space travel which may be what finally bridges the gap en-mass. Also at this time any world except Roshar, Rosharan's lose, but Scadrians have full access to both their tech and magic on any world even Roshar. At their tech level now they would have to have access to and to cross the CR which severely limits Radiant retreats to the CR. Let me give you the formulas for weight increase. Stored weight = 25% of total weight for a day which I estimate to be 50 lbs. I didn't break it down into hours. compounded weight uses the initial 50 lbs for 1 day and compounds it 5 times which is 10^5 * 50. That equals being 5 million lbs for 1 day once compounded that is tappable. He would have 25,000 times his normal mass for an entire day (when would you need to be that heavy for an entire day). Compress the time and you lose some mass, but extend the time and you keep it all. All compounding would have similar magnitudes.