BenduLuke
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Rioting and soothing are so similar we can't be sure she didn't do both. Of course if she didn't riot anyone it would be because there was no zinc in the water and there was brass a source of brass. Of course she could have been rioting all along since it is more likely she had a source of zinc and not brass. apperantly besides pewter there were not sufficient metals for her to use other powers at the time. Vin was throwing horses with her pushes, that is definitely sufficient force. A Steeltwin could add their velocity to their pushes making them even more effective. Shard plate has been damaged by boulders, rocks, spears, and hammers among other things so it is not invulnerable to impact. Steel would enable the leecher to get close to use their power in the blink of an eye thus get inside and out of the radiants defenses before they reacted. Don't forget the potential aluminum grenades (guns = potential explosives as well), Gatling guns, and artillery shells. Where aluminum pierces healing doesn't work in that person that includes shardplate. Aluminum also disrupts bend bubbles and other external invested abilities in the area. It is the anti investiture metal like kryptonite to investiture. Fair enough, but she could have done it and since Soothing and rioting produce essentially the same results she may have been consciously unaware that she was doing both.
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Who says a coin shot has to push coins. Vin was throwing horseshoes, Kolos blades, and Kel used all kinds of metal items in his fight with the Inquisitors. In addition even coins traveling fast enough (velocity compensates for mass) would have massive impact. Remember a steel compounder could add his momentum to any projectiles he pushes. The only limit to the metal a coinshot could push directly is aluminum, and titanium spikes would be devastating and even aluminum alloy could be pushed if it were attached to some other metal. Chromium with Steel for the speed to attack might work better than gold. A soulbearer leecher could potentially wipe whole armies of Radiant of Stormlight by tapping their allomantic wipe. It has also been stated that while under the influence of a Leecher a Radiant cannot summon their Plate or Blade if they don't already have it. Of course aluminum alloy weapons could be just as devastating to Radiants as Chromium since Aluminum nullifies all invested powers like healing and stormlight. A bronze twin would have near unlimited wakefulness or awareness so would be difficult to surprise while ready to attack at any time whenever the Radiants were sleeping or very tired. They would also be aware of the specific Rythms to design weapons and defenses to use against Radiants. So given time and resources they could mount devastating attacks at unanticipated times and not needing to sleep they could work on their attacks around the clock until they succeeded. They could potentially be the sleepless batman or iron man of Scadrial who over time wears the enemy down over a prolonged engagement and they would always know where the enemy is.
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I agree that new, the Metalborn has the advantage, and in most cases experienced Radiants do assuming they engage in direct combat one on one. Never the less in my opinion some twinborn combinations would be a challenge for virtually any order, oath, or experience of Radiant. For example steel twin compounders would have such incredible speed and ability to attack from a distance that almost no radiant of any level, order, or experience would be likely to win even with the healing and armor. A bronze compounder given time and experience would likely be able to arm themselves with the most efficient Radiant killing weapons and Radiant defending armor. A tin-f with any number of allomantic abilities would prove to be an asset to any team of metalborn since many allomantic abilities could give them additional senses that they could store in their metal mind probably most effective a time sense from the temporal abilities especially thta of electrum which they could then tap feruchemically in a very short time or over a more extended time. Electrum stored feruchemically might give the windwhisper the ability to see how a fight would go in a more controlled and extended manner than atium. Feruchemically stored future sense. We know seeker senses can be stored in Tin minds so it makes sense that other allomantic senses can be as well. One other advantage that most twin born would have is that in their specific abilities they would have a degree of finesse and skill that is never seen among full mistborn so they could have advantages that mistborn cannot attain. Of course there are some allomantic and radiant abilities that lend themselves to winning by dirty fighting even when in a direct fight they would be outclassed.
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In addition metalborn have their abilities almost from birth and some awareness of them once snapped. Even Vin was subconsciously aware and called some of her abilities her luck, and she used pewter without ever realizing it at the time. @The TechnovoreI think a steel twin might be more powerful than a pewter twin. A Pewter A Gold F could be a challenge to beat since they could probably store health and recovery in the gold.
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I doubt it was atium. It was probably pewter. Super strength and physical abilities, maybe some unconcious rioting and soothing and finally metal awareness with some push pull. Mostly extreme physical abilities which would be easy to pick up on. I think it is a little of both getting new powers then figuring out how to use them effectively. It took Kaladin a while to work out how to fly, stick stuff, though the healing came naturally. Why do you think it takes 16 years to make a metalborn? Vin was metalborn from birth but she needed someone to train her to progress as fast as she did. She had been subconciously burning pewter, brass, and zinc for years with an extremely limited supply of them. We really don't know when Vin could have had full use of her abilities since until she was 16 she only had access to trace elements. It appears that once a person snaps they have full use of their abilities depending on whether they have the metals, then it is only a matter of learning how to use them. A Radiant being made in hours? Kaladin took over a year to become a radiant. Even with his guidance his squires took weeks to months to start using radiant abilities. We have no idea how long it took Shalan or Lyft the first time to start being able to use their powers. Lyft still has issues with being slippery and moving. Radiant only get full access to their abilities after they have sworn all the oaths which few ever have. Division is after the 3rd or 4th oath for Dustbringers and Skybreakers. Gravity lashings are after 2nd oath for windurnners and skybreakers. Regardless there is a learning and training curve to any metal or radiant abilities some being quicker to learn than others like pewter for metalborn, or illusion for Shallan. @The Technovore There are a number of potential twinborn which could give even a 4th oath Radiant a run for their money. Almost any Nicrosil F combination would be a challenge to beat especially those with physical skills like Iron, steel, or pewter. Tin F could give an awareness advantage with some Allomantic abilities like bronze, tin, steel, iron, and especially the temporal metals that could make them very effective covert assasins.
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I have tried reloading and lost the comment I was writing. It really doesn't matter what you want to call it, it is still a multiplication of the effect.
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Alright a sphere of moving metal. neither Vin or any other Mistborn has the time to become as proficient with all their metals as a Misting does with their one metal. Yes scientifically Vin's Bronze H & A interaction is both a resonance and compounding. Feruchemy does not need to be involved for there to be either compounding or resonance. But you can go ahead and call the interaction amplification. @The Technovore I know it looks like double posting, but it is actually responding to other comments as they come in. Sometimes while I am in the process of responding to one another comes in so my comments appear next to each other. Sorry if that is distracting. The other time that seems to happen is when I think of a possible combination that I want present right after responding to a comment on one of my responses. I will try to do better. Good point on gravity. Gravity is also affected by density in an area. Great mass in a small area would create a region of affect near it, but you are right that that kind of mass could cause issues with surface tension even of solid ground which a sufficiantly strong Iron pull or short duration might solve. Iron pulls from an Iron compunder would be particularly powerful and effective. Soulbearer(Nicrosil F) or Windwhisper(Tin F) mixed with many allomantic abilities would create interesting results. Soulbearer's could potentially store any allomantic power they had in their metal mind and tap it feruchemically (>duralumin steel effect potentially over a longer period or any other). Windwhisper's could store Seeker sense, Metal Sense, Augur sense(not sure how useful that would be), and Oracle Sense which they could tap in greater potency and or duration. Imagine the possibilities and advantages that would give them.
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Iron compounders might be able to vary the gravity near them by fluctuating mass so as to create an Iron bubble that might even affect aluminum since it is not technically a metal pull and aluminum is subject to gravity. Gravity alterations could produce changes in air flow and viscosity which could further change projectile trajectories.
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She had to many powers to practice enough with steel pushes to discover it was possible, and she didn't need it since she could acquire a synergy between pushes and pulls that gave her a different metal bubble. That is the mistborn multiple power problem. Generally able to do everything but not as skilled at anything. She did have a resonance in Bronze because of hemalurgy. Or perhaps compounded Bronze.
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I think Brandon said it's not but it certainly borders on it. His experience pushing coins acts like a gunslinger who has uncountable hours of practice. He is so good he does it reflexively. Which can also explain his steel bubble. Steel, vectors, momentum, gravity all resonate with him. His official A-F resonance may be something we haven't mentioned yet and could come as a surprise. Still without more concrete examples speculating on how the powers interact to create an effect may be our best chance of discovering resonances.
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Sure we can they just don't work the same but they do involve an effect of steel pushing. Vin pushed all the metal even her coin pouches away from her when she tried this. Wax commented on how it was weird that he could differentiate metals on him from metals around him and how he could be selective. The resonance will be related but it may not be obvious. What is Wayne's resonance, Brandon says he has one but it is more subtle than Wax's. He did mention Healing in a speed bubble in the coppermind.
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What makes you think it is unrelated? All the resonance we are reasonably sure of are related to their orders. Vin couldn't create a steel bubble so not a mistborn power, but a possible resonance for a coinshot related to but not initially one of their powers. A steel bubble is an effect of steel pushes in response to experience and the steel more efficiently resonating with the misting. Some F ability like Iron accelerate that experience and acquisition of the effect. Khriss said unique, and distinctive, not unrelated. The effect would have to be related. In the case of orders of KR it appears to be related to the ideals as much or more than the powers. Windrunners get increase numbers of and capability of squires which appears to be related to the ideals of Protecting and leading on which windrunners are founded. You see something similar happening with Edgedancers.
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Any other ideas out there on Scadrian Vs Rosharan? I don't mind defending my ideas but I would like to see some of yours?
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Of course a resonance would present like that.
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Not sure it is an application of intent so much as experience and trained reflex. His F-iron also allows for subtle shifts in gravity (changes in mass = changes in gravity) which aided him in mastering it faster and more effectively. @Aspiring Writer mentioned that the other person to have a Steel bubble had F-Pewter and that makes sense as well since having greater strength allows for greater immovability as well, but that steel bubble wouldn't be working exactly the same. F-Iron does affect Higgs Fields which affect gravity. (Coppermind Iron). A steel bubble would likely evolve as a resonance of many Coinshot involved twinborn or as a savant ability in a Coinshot misting though it would come with some down sides. A coinshot would likely have a steel bubble which creates burning deflected projectiles or that draws off the some of the momemtum from the projectile as heat stored in a metal mind.
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True, but what I was saying is that Iron can be used as a radiation shield. It is better than dirt and worse than lead. Iron compounder and stormform. Iron compounder as I have describe them better be grounded or have a shocking experience. Yes both savantism and resonances can lead to each other. In the case of Wax it is more of a resonance but not quite savant ability. You do see Wax using the 2 abilities almost like one giving him far more finesse than is typical. He uses Both abilities like they are tied together, almost instinctively.
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Note I quoted it as a resonance not a savant ability. It is Wax's lack of savant negative consequences that has him back peddling and has him indicating it as more of a resonance instead. Savantism and Resonance can come together but they don't have to. It also explains why another crasher can develop a steel bubble.
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Sure they do they have light, but the static or heat buildup would come from the friction inherant with moving fast through the air, and the steel push might be able to guide the discharge at a target. Great counter, but Iron does have a degree of radiation resistance. I was thinking a Skybreaker or Dustbringers division surge might prove a challenge. Holy rusted metal lurcher man.
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He also said the steel bubble is a resonance Waxillium Ladrian's ability to create a "steel bubble" to deflect metal moving around him[29] result of the resonance between his Allomantic steel and Feruchemical iron. yes I am asking you to speculate on possible resonances. resonances are not so much passive as intrinsic or instinctive.
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Iron compounder could prove to be a challenge to KR's. The ablitiy to compound mass would mean they could become a gravity sink they do affect the higgs field so they can affect gravity.(coppermind Iron) Because of near ulimited weight their metal pulls would be very powerful and they could have Iron armor acting as their metalmind held and manipulated by their Iron pulls through a system of levers, pullies, and chains or cables making it in essense enhanced body armor. Because it would be a filled metalmind it would be resistant to shardblades. Their metal pulls would likely enable them to bring the KR inside shardblade range where they could batter the shardplate into pieces. Enhanced weight comes with enhanced strenth. If the battle starts to go against them they could store mass and pull away. They could also equip their body armor with enhanced ranged weapons like metal booberangs or guns. even if they miss with their shots they could pull the bullets back for a second chance and perhaps have them return with even more momentum from behind into the back of the KR. They might have an innate ablility to calculate vectors, momentum, and surface tension. In addition they would likely have inhuman finesse and balance. Even a windrunner would find this Scadrian a challenge. 7 of 10 to the compounder in first contact. break even after.
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Even better the heat or static buildup can be guided by the spiritual connection. yes but far more capable of augmenting their abilities vs any form of investiture. Kind of like Batman or Ironman. It seems to have something to do with creativity & honesty(lightweaver values) interacting with the mediums of tranformation and illumination. True. Shardplate is still vulnerable to impacts and alluminum impacts that eventually pierce it also stop its regeneration. A pewter compunder with hardened alluminum weapons would be devastating to even a shard armed radiant up close. It would just cost a lot of money to arm him or her. The alluminum would damage and disable the shardplate, resist shardswords, and interfer with all the radiant abilities such as healing and surges. Alluminum guns, spears, arrows, darts, knives, daggers, swords, nets, and armor in the hands of a pewter compounder would likely tip the scales in favor of the Twinborn. A steel compunder even without alluminum would be a challenge to KR's as well.
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We definitely know what abilities each metal enables. From that we can speculate on how 2 metals interact. We have a crasher example in Wax as a possible resonance template though Brandon has been unclear as to what his resonance is, and Miles as a near immortal gold compounder as another template to use. Sometimes Brandon refers to Wax's steel bubble as a resonance or savant ability, but still remains vague on it. Sorry you two have been going at me back and forth that I got confused who commented what. I usually multi quoted, but I guess I crossed streams. I am really not making stuff up, but I do speculate on possible interactions. I can't bring myself to say I think you are wrong only that I disagree, because I could be wrong even if I don't think so. A steel twin compounder can definitely move very fast (compound the speed by burning steel filled with it). How does a coinshot push metal? Is it magnetic? if so static build up from moving very fast might be discharged by pushing a coin and creating a magnetic tunnel for the push or connecting some exposed metal by a metal push. even heat can be ionized so might follow a magnetic flow created by a steel push. Thus throw lighting or fire as a resonance of Steel compounding. A bronze compounder given time could potentially produce weapons dangerous to any invested person and would have the alertness to work around the clock to do it until they succeeded given their ability to detect the specific pulses of investiture.
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Compounding produces an increased amplitude of the feruchemical ability thus is a resonance. That also describe what happened with Vin and her earring. Definition: Resonance describes the phenomenon of increased amplitude that occurs when the frequency of a periodically applied force is equal or close to a natural frequency of the system on which it acts.
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That quote doesn't contradict my opinion, in fact from my perspective it supports it. Ok so you are saying there is no way a Scadrian can beat a Rosharan. Good to know. I disagree. What is the 1 out of 10 that a Scadrian can? What makes you think a Rosharan resonance is any better than a Scadrian resonance? Speculating on how Scadrians or Rosharans could beat each other is exactly what this thread is about. From my perspective it is how the powers interact that provides the key to victory. So speculating on resonances and power combinations is the point of the contest. How does a KR survive a Steel twin compounder? or worse yet one bonded to a cultivation spren? Yes I think a Scadrian could bond a Spren and it is far more likely than a Rosharan gaining metal abilities.
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You are welcome to your opinion about resonances and compounding, I just happen to disagree and have seen enough WOB's to feel confident in my opinion. Even the one I quoted our opinions disagree. So in other words you can't think of any metal combinations and their resonances or compounding that would prove a challenge for a KR? Skip the obvious gold compounding of Miles. Honestly I think a KR could eventually overwhelm his healing.
