BenduLuke

5 hours ago, KenzoBlue said:

Anything in Lyft's perspective is extremely fun to read. She has such a different and youthful way of looking at things that definitely make her chapters unique!

Have you read her Novella yet? Edgedancer it is both solo and in Arcanum Unbound.

Early the next morning I woke to someone knocking on my door. When I opened the door Ander was waiting. I invited him in and asked him to sit while I got dressed. Once I returned I asked "what can I do for you?"

He responded "what or who are you? Yesterday I was about to be hauled in by a Skybreaker and you interceded. Some kind of opaque barrier surronded you and him and when it came down you were standing and he was a mess. There wasn't a mark on either of you. This isn't the first time something strange has happened around you. Even Flander backed off and he is not easily spooked. Last night he left the area without explaining. I was elected to find out what I could by everyone, so can you explain?

i sat for a few minutes then offered him something to eat and drink telling him this could take a while. When I returned with breakfast, egg toast with fruit glaze and tea, I sat and invited him to eat with me. Once finished I cleaned up leaving tea on the table in case he wanted refills.

I said "I am a Trueself Mirror".

"A what", he said.

Then there was another knock on the door. I held up a hand and answered. At the door was a tall thin man with silver hair sporting a silver sword.

"Dust" I Said, "what a surprise."

He answered, "I try not to be where I am expected. It seems you already have company, did I miss something?"

"Only the sky breaking yesterday", I said. "I was just about to explain to my guest a little about a Trueself Mirror."

Dust said to Ander, "Aren't you one of Thidakar's people, and you don't know about what he is?"

Ander looked utterly confused and replied, "how does that even make sense? What is a trueself .....". His face went blank as it dawned on him what he started to say. "Your a ferring?, But no ferring can do what you have done? How is this even possible?"

I responded to him, "I guess you could say I am an unintended world hopper. I never met Thidakar. One of his lieutenants thought I might be useful as he believed I would be easily impressed, but I proved more adaptable than he expected."

Dust added, "Your looking a little more Radiant these days than when I last saw you, it must be the company you have started keeping."

I grinned and replied, " you could say I am a glow with new friendships, but what brings you here?"

Ander said, "I still don't understand?"

I said, "you could say I am open to adding the best parts of people and things around me, and resistant to negative investments. Still you can assure your associates and the others that I don't hold grudges and am always looking for ways to improve things around me." Then I showed him to the door.

I poured Dust a cup of tea and asked, "You don't just show up without reason. To what do I owe your visit?"

I like many of the theories presented. The idea that Nale might be the champion seems possible, but I agree that Nale is Szeth's foil. I see Szeth going through Shinovar discovering the basis of their laws that caused him to be declared truthless. I see him scouring the laws of all the lands in his quest. Once he has scoured the Laws of Roshar starting in Shinovar he then will be 4th Ideal and will work his way through the Skybreakers to understand how their individual Ideals lead to the Law and Justice until he confronts Nale and finally becomes the fifth Ideal. He will embody at that point the flexibility of the Law which contains Justice tempered by mercy seeking to include the victims in his final judgments in contrast to Nale's rigid adherance to the letter of the law in each dominance.

Moash in his utterly broken state might be the ultimate champion capable due to his broken nature to contain near limitless passion to destroy Dalinar. He might become the thrill on steroids and will be defeated by Dalinar connecting him to all his past deeds making him accountable, and the final blow will be Kaladin forgiving him at which point he will be consumed by the invested power of being Odiums champion and die spectacularly. By which point Dalinar will be Honor having assended and discovering Teravangian is Odium he will ally himself with Odium and Cultivation to confront a greater threat to the cosmere and might even form an alliance with Harmony as well.

59 minutes ago, KenzoBlue said:

Thank you! I'd probably be a Tineye if I had the choice. I like the thought of having a heightened awareness and being able to see things in greater detail.

Welcome to the shard. If you like having a heightend awareness you might consider Bronze since they can detect investiture use and the really good ones can determine what is being used. My personal obsession is Aluminum for the qualities it can be used for. I don't dare say more until you finish alloy of law.

Era 2 is where I started with mistborn and I had to go back to Vin and Kelsier. You might try going to Arcanum unbound to get an overview of the whole cosmere.

I think my favorite character is Lyft, because she has such a unique take on things.

On 4/18/2021 at 9:58 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Oh interesting, thanks! Must've missed that.

A person probably perceives themselves as themselves, but considering how air, spires of rock, etc are all separate things, I think that how absolutely massive a planet is means it tends to be perceived in smaller chunks that minds can handle better.

From what I have seen (considering how much effort I put into aluminum) Identity is the totality and borders of the thing or person. Multiple identities can be maintained within one identity. A heart within a body always views itself as a heart but connected to the body never the less the body perceives itself as a body and all within it as part of its identity, and beyond that a person considers the body as part of itself in addition to their connections, friendships, and other things that make up their concept of themselves. So a worlds Identity includes all on it and more. Mars would need to see itself as more massive and life giving but wouldn't necessarily need to change much of its topography much to do so. It might only need to change how it perceives itself going forward to be habitable and would then be able to add a connection to people and things it hasn't had before going forward. We don't generally consider ourselves as part of the world's Identity but we probably should since it probably does. I would bet that in the Cosmere the spiritweb considers everything and everyone to be part of its Identity so to approach changing a planets Identity one would need to approach it from from some higher degree like its system Identity downward like the Shards probably did.

@ScadrianTank Great responses thanks.

Over the weekend I was thinking about compounding and about some benefits of less combat oriented metals.

First let me define what I understand about compounding and its limits. A compounder like an Iron twin can store an attribute like weight in this instance. The person could store like Wax did about 25% of their weight estimated about 20 k for an hour which they could tap as 20 k extra for an hour or maybe 40 k for 20 minutes because there is an investiture cost to compressing what you have stored by taping in a for shortened time period. However if that same twin took that hours worth of storage and burned the metal mind they would receive about 200 k of tappable weight for an hour or 10 hours of 20 k additional weight. No loss because there is no compression. Each time they compound they get about a 10x return such that 20k becomes 200k which becomes 2,000k and so on or grants 10 hours to 100 hours to 1,000 hours or some combination of weight over time. I picked weight as an example because I could keep the units separate.

I was thinking Brass compounders would make excellent long distance athletes and explorers since they could store the heat from burning muscles and thus resist fatigue for long periods. They could also handle extreme temperatures because in tropic or desert environs they could store the excess heat avoiding heat stroke and need less water and in arctic environs they could compound and tap heat to stay warm. They might also be resistant to heat based division or soulcasting attacks since they could probably store that heat as well.

Zinc compounders might make brilliant research leaders since they could both rapidly learn and digest information and drive others to work at peak effort while within their influence maintaining in others a constant level of curiosity and alertness to drive research. They would probably be the worlds best multi-taskers as well.

Bronze compounders could be tireless researchers with innate perception of investiture based studies or sentinals against invested attacks able to remain alert indefinitely so long as they have bronze. A person like this would be invaluable working with a Navani on light studies or with anyone else wanting to fathom investiture secrets like the above mentioned Zinc compounder.

On 4/27/2015 at 9:39 PM, Shattered said:

When it's impossible to read other fantasy because they never provide enough justification or explanation of the magic system(s).

Try going to Recluse. Also written by a Utahn. Be careful order is pretty challenging and takes time to establish.

On 4/28/2015 at 9:11 AM, mail-mi said:

You know you're an LDS Sanderfan when you wish that Moroni had started the Golden Plates with "I write these words in gold, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted." 

No Nephi says they need Brass plates to ensure they have the truth then makes gold plates to enrich the future because only on metal plates can truth be preserved to ensure your people wont lose it and the truth should be as rich as possible.

Your a Sander fan when you hear the word Legion and think of someone out of their mind. Vindication also makes you think of revolvers.

Do you think Harry Callahan called his revolver vindication?

With the latest bond I felt an emptiness like an open circle. All afternoon I pondered on what might be missing. The market guards took the stranger away. Ander thanked me and left the square soon after. On the way home when I looked at one of my watchers he cringed. I wasn't doing so good at maintaining a low profile not if I was now known for confronting a Radiant and winning. No one had witnessed exactly what happened, but they knew that for a few minutes there was a Radiant there and then there wasn't and I was still there unharmed. Most didn't even realize that the stranger the guards took away had been the Radiant he looked so different and broken.

I sat at the table eating a simple meal of bread and cheese with orange wine. Fractal and the others joined me each seeming to sense that I needed space. As evening wore on and dusk turned to dark I contemplated what might me missing. Finally I said out loud. "I will strive to balance all around me when I can. I will be just but will seek to apply mercy when possible. I will be honest and kind, creative and resolute, pios and loving, confident and constructive, guiding and healing. I will only divide to prune, but will always seek to refine that around me to forge something better even when I must destroy. Increased harmony will be my ideal in all I do." Reality shimmered around me 3 realms merging for a timeless instant. as I heard this oath is accepted and you are finally prepared. Use the bonds you have forged to bring about harmony.

Nova looked at me puzzled and asked, "what just happened?"

The others said at once, "what just changed?"

Brandy pushed the door open as I prepared to answer drawing their attention and said, "You were creatures of Honor and Cultivation, and our partner has created a connection to yourselves and deepened his connection to Harmony. He has become Harmony's bondsmith forging a completed sphere of investiture connecting the surges of Harmony, Honor, and Cultivation within his sphere of influence.

First of the Lightbringers on theme of Sixth of Dusk name.

@AonEne perhaps First adopted Moonchild.

Prof's fear of failure is what made him win at any cost even his own humanity and sanity. Only by facing that fear and overcoming it like Firefight did could he truly control his powers instead of them twisting and controlling him. Oh and it wasn't just a fear but was a phobia.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:05 AM, therunner said:

So, allomatically non-viable metals cannot be burned at all, however alloys with wrong ratios can but results in sickness.

What would happen if allomancer burned duralumin while attempting to burn a wrong alloy? Could the duralumin boosted sickness be enough to potentially kill mistborn?

Depends on whether they are a full mistborn, or a misting.

A duralumin nat would experience no consequences because they couldn't burn the other metal. Duralumin is only duralumin if it has the proper rations otherwise it is an aluminum alloy.

A mistborn would get sick and have an enhanced effect of the other metal unless it was aluminum in which case all allomantic metals and their effects would be wiped.

any other misting would get sick or die as usual and wouldn't be able to burn the duralumin. Death is possible with improperly proportioned metals.

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

There are 4

I stand corrected. 16 sounded right since there are 16 shards.

I couldn't get back to sleep so I prepared to head to the market. Brandy and I passed by the watchers and just to be vexing I waved at them.

We arrived at the market square early to set up. No one was about yet. I cleaned up the rubble in my space and for several yards around putting it in buckets. While I waited for others to arrive I covertly shaped the stones and debris into little stone animals and models. Brandy after seeing me pick up the debris went all over the square to bring me more, to which I praised him and patted him. As I finished each small statue I changed the stone to relate to the shape. An elephant might be jade. I made an onyx panther. some were pearl or sandstone or marble. I made a granite bear. I finished with a multi color topaz eagle as other vendors started to arrive.

While the others set up their stalls they eyed Brandy with suspicion, but soon began to appreciate that he was picking up the mess around the square. I spent the time setting out the new statues in a space next to my more useful products.

As i set out the items Lumina asked me "were you an artist on you old world?"

"Yes were you?" asked Harvest, "These creatures look very lifelike."

"No. I think I inherited some of my artistic skill from my bond with Fractal and from weaving my soul for so long." I Said. "I also think that my connections with each of you has broadened what little artistic talent I posses with practical skills that I inherited from each of you."

At that moment Brandy came up and looked at me then nodded dropping the not insubstantial stone at my feet. I patted his head and thanked him then he went behind my stall laid down and curled up seemingly content with what he had done but decidedly finished for now. Interestingly his coat faded and took on the color and texture of the paving stones making him almost seem to disappear.

It was late in the afternoon that the stranger in the long dark coat floated down into the square observing everyone suspiciously. Ander was haggling with a grain merchant nearby. Others were negotiating for goods to take home or engaging in gossip and conversation. My most recent customer was walking away. Brandy briefly opened one eye.

The dark stranger landed and said "I am here to serve a writ for breaking the peace and murder of a local overlord."

He pointed right at Ander "you have been identified as one trying to subvert the lawful order and as such are the prime suspect so will come forward and identify your conspirators and submit to execution" then he drew his sword.

Ander went pale looking around wildly for somewhere to escape to or for help from anywhere. Flander across the square ducked into hiding. Merchants and customers alike turned away from his gaze and tried to as inconspicuous as possible.I took a deep breath and stepped out from behind my booth.

In a clear voice I drew the strangers attentions saying, "Who was this overlord that was suppose to have been murdered? When did this breaking the peace and murder happen? What gives you the right to accuse anyone here?"

The stranger grinned. He asked "are you one of his conspirators?"

Ander eyes wide and still white as a sheet said to me "I can't believe it. Do you know who that is?"

I responded to Ander first "it really doesn't matter who he is I can't just let him execute you outright."

Then to the stranger I said, " it depends on what you mean by conspiritor, I am someone he does business with on occasion for goods and services. I can't just allow you to execute him just because of some flimsy paper you call a writ."

He grinned wider and began to glow brightly.

I said, "so you are a Knight Radiant, I thought you were all about honor? where is the honor in this?"

He replied, "I am the law and he has broken the law. Last nights disturbance and the murder of the Fused overlord is all I need to execute judgment on this known criminal. Now I can add you to that execution order."

I nodded as a chill went through me and I went deadly cold. My focus narrowed as my awareness expanded. Shadow bronze burned inside me gathering locations of power all around me then shadow copper ignited within me concealing any awareness of my own power to others.

My eyes burning liquid silver I said, "I may not know what you are specifically, but you have no idea what I am. So far as I have determined this man here has not done anything to justify execution. In fact he has acted with integrity if in his own self interest so far as i can determine so far."

Stormlight streamed to me from all over the square. I looked through to shademar and saw the Highspren acting as his sword. A creature of stars and shadow. It saw me as well. Though stormlight streamed to me in thick ribbons I didn't glow. Shadow gathered around us. A power sink forming a barrier in a sphere encompassing us with me at the center.

"I have heard of your order Skybreaker," I continued, "and you are preparing to cross the line of justice. Your next choices will determine many futures especially your own."

He stated once again "I am the law, justice is mine to determine, this writ gives me that right in this jurisdiction. Submit to execution and spare yourself undo agony." Plate formed instantly around him and he surged forward with blinding speed.

I tapped steelrunner speed sliding his stike past me with the palm of my hand. A wall of solid granite jumped from the ground in front of him and shattered on impact. Stormlight started to stream from the armor and I dew it to me. Brandy knocked pails full of stones into the air between me and the Skybreaker. The stones shaped into metal spikes which I steelrunner pushed at the Skybreaker battering him further backward as he turned to face me.

Flame and destuciton erupted all around me, but where it touched me it vanished. I neutralized and captured the identity of the destruction focused on me storing it in a nicrosil shadow. The sink sphere boarders darkened around us. He launched a heavy stone for me from his palm as he surged upward with more stones to fire at me. As he surged upward for space he struck the barrier and his backplate flashed and cracked on contact throwing him earthward, but his surges slowed him before impact.

"Last chance," I Said, "you will leave here with an oath to release your writ and to never interfere here again or you will face the consequences."

He sneered and his armor healed. Then he surged forward with inhuman speed and strength swinging his sword for my core and I launched a hemalugic aluminum strike to his abdomen. On contact the front plate dissolved and his sword gouged my shoulder. We both heard the scream from Nova in response to the burning aluminum surging through me. Time stopped. Facing me were the Skybreaker, Nova, Lumina, Fractal, and Harvest. Our identitities inexorably connected in that timeless moment. Nova looked on the Skybreaker and said "you have crossed the Line of your oath. I will not face what these others have faced when oaths were broken instead I will take a bond with this one like these others going forward."

At my feet was a broken man and in my hand was a sword which then dissolved into mist.

13 hours ago, ScadrianTank said:

For point 2, I think about it as a Forger with a Dawnshard and an Aon that increases Forging strength, like the city of Elantris being a huge Aon Reo.

Since everything in the cosmere has a soul, I assume you can adjust a planet's soul to change its characteristics. So if you can save the parameters of one planet and imprint them on another, you get magical terraforming.

That would mean changing a planets identity.

I wonder what might be able to do that? ;-)

I think there is a form of Feruchemy that Might allow that. ;-0

Seriously though what you propose sounds like something related to a truesoul master. It also sounds like something that might be possible in era 3 or 4 depending on if alloy era is actually era 2 or 1.5.

Dawnshard though, something which seems to have more potential power than an unbound bondsmith?

Do you think Scadrial might have a dawnshard? There are 16 after all.

On 4/11/2021 at 9:03 AM, therunner said:

So, no it does not indicate that at all?

Your theory on nicrosil storing various pewter attributes rests on two points, both of which are not actually supported yet

1. Kinetic investiture is storable (on this we have RAFOs at best).
2. That F-nicrosil allows feruchemist to 'divide' singular kinetic investiture into different attributes.

On the first point, I think that might be possible even though so far all that is being talked about being stored (including in the WoB you linked) is static Investiture in spiritweb, i.e. storing ability to have some ability. In the WoB he says that Mistborn with F-nicrosil can store for exaple ability to use A-pewter and A-bronze, and have them separate. Nothing about kinetic investiture at all.

The point two, that F-nicrosil can 'divide' kinetic investiture, has no relation to the WoB at all. And I do not really think that could be done, could you separate stormlight's healing property from its physical 'perfecting' property? They are both effects of one singular kind of investiture, not separate abilities. I do think you could store A-pewter health into a goldmind, A-pewter strength into pewtermind and A-pewter speed into steelmind, but I do not think you could store this into nicrosilmind.

And F-tin is not a good argument either. F-tin allows you to store different senses separately, does that mean that F-steel allows you to store speed of different body parts separately? Or F-pewter storing strength of different limbs separately? Or F-gold storing health of individual body parts/organs? Answer to all of these is no, so I do not see why F-tin would be argument. F-tin is the outlier not the rule.

EDIT: I now realize that the last point on F-tin is not that good, you could argue that F-nicrosil is like F-tin, with 'kind of investiture'='sense'. However, I still think that does not support your point. I think that separating individual abilities out of A-pewter investiture would be like F-tin storing for example 'red-color vision', they cannot do that. F-tin can store senses, not parts of sense, and in the same way F-nicrosil can only store Investiture, not only part of it.

You are right the WoB I quoted is a general discussion on investiture not specific about kinetic types. Pewter can only be stored by different metalminds. Strength by pewter, speed by steel, mental speed by zinc, health by gold, wakefulness by bronze. These are only some of the enhanced attributes available to Allomantic pewter. Distinct senses must be stored by distinct zinc minds so even a zinc compounder must split the senses between metalminds. Each sense is distinctly invested so must be split. Comparing senses to limbs is nonsensical. Pewter must be split between metalminds because no one metal with the exception can potentially store all the physical abilities it provides and some of those abilities can't be stored any other way. Still since we haven't seen soulbearers in action and Brandon when asked directly about them says RAFO big RAFO it really is anyones guess how it works or what it really does. From my perspective it seems like the universal storage mind open to all potential abilities or power sources like stormlight. It might even be a better storage medium than spheres. It could potentially store individual surges as well all depending on what connections the Soulbearer has. It could also be the metalmind that can mimic every other metalmind or perhaps it stores the actual allomantic ability like steel pushes or Allomantic Pewter strength instead of ferechemical strength which has the attendant muscle increase.

On another topic we have discussed in the past. Truesouls might be the Cosmeres version of Legion especially if working with a trusted Forger. If that person was an Aluminum compounder you might be able to add near magic immunity to Legion like abilities.

On 4/12/2021 at 1:09 PM, ScadrianTank said:

Going back to the original post, I got some thoughts. 

1. After rewatching all of Stargate, I want some sort of Zero-point Investiture being pulled directly from the Spiritual realm Bondsmith style but done technologically.
2. Super Forgers powered by Forgery amplification Aons the size of a space station destroying star systems and creating black holes by Forging cores of stars for brief moments.
3. Using Spiritual attributes of your home planet for terraforming with cosmere's biggest metalmind(s).

Could you expand on your points I am not sure what you are going for?

A Forger working with a Nicroburst or who is a Duralumin Nat might fit the Super Forger type. Not sure how a Forger is working with an Aon?

I am not sure how Spiritual attributes and Terra forming relate?

On 4/14/2021 at 0:55 PM, EggArdent said:

imagine trying to convince something to turn into plutonium "hey you want to turn into this? everyone will see you for miles, you'll be the brightest thing around!"

Nice argument to what you want to soulcast, but I think it would need several steps after convincing the change to achieve your nuclear ambitions. It might be simpler to achieve your nuclear goals through Division instead. Stormlight expencive though. Hire a Nicroburst to simplify the mad scientist goals.

I like the Idea. :-)

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

Was this suppose to contradict anything I said

But then why are you talking about Windwhisperers?

Nicrosill could definitely store Gravitation (Basic Lasing) and Adhesion (Full Lashing+wind manipulation+probably more) Reverse Lashings are not a power but something obtained by using two powers at one so you wouldn't be able to store it for the same reason you can't store your ability to compound.

No just being sure I was clear in case. I guess to be clear each and every individual sense seems to me to be treated as a distinct investiture by F-Tin. You need a separate metalmind for each.

Windwhisper is the feruchemical use of tin which is only one of the many Feruchemical powers of TLR.

Reverse lashings might be iffy for nicrosil like you said, but it is referred to as a distinct lashing though unique to Windrunners.

Just now, mathiau said:

First, I thought we were talking about TLR's compounding trick, which is about increasing allomancy and not ferruchemy

Secound, saying that storing A-Bronze hearing is another attribute than storing the sense of smell is like saying Windrunner's ability to lash themself is not that same attribute as their ability to lash other objects

Bronze sense is specifically mentioned as possible for tin to store

"It is possible for a Windwhisperer to store more than the five traditional senses in a tinmind.[13] An example of this would be the the ability to feel pain.[14] It might be possible to store Allomantically granted senses like bronze sense.[15]"

TLR was a Fullborn so it was referring to his feruchemical storage of his allomancy.

Windrunners have 3 types of lashing. Sticking things together (to walls) or Adhesion, Flying which is really falling or Gravity and a seeming combination called Reverse lashing which draws things to other things (seems to combine Adhesion and Gravity) works best when used to draw things not currently on the ground. Nicrosil could store each of these individually and would probably need to.

9 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Pewter and Tin have multiple effects, they are one attribute

they both have multiple affected attributes. Tin can actually store other senses like seeker sense (Bronze-A), or perhaps metal sense, or time sense (Gold or Electrum A)

Pewter speed would be stored in steel and pewter health in Gold.

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Tin being the only metal that does that, when all other metals only act as one power?

all other metals except Nicrosil used feruchemically only store 1 attribute like strength or speed. copper works similarly in that you often need different metalminds to store different memories. thanks @mathiau. According to the WoB I quoted each invested attribute needs to be stored separately, the problem is that Pewter has multiple invested attributes. A-Tin would also be split into different senses by Nicrosil just like with F-Tin.

What I am now unsure of is whether Nicrosil would store the attributes as allomantic versions or Feruchemical versions.

Just now, Frustration said:

Which do you think more likely

That when the questioner asked if you stored mistborn-ness(all the powers) at once, or each power separatly and Brandon said separatly that he was

1. Refering to each misting type(one power) as they are described in the novels
2. Or refering to each individual change that each specific metal made which are all considered one power in world?

option 2 given how tin works.

14 minutes ago, Frustration said:

When brandon says all powers individually he is speaking of different metals

I don't see it that way. Especially given how Tin acts.

@therunner I thought you would appreciate this WoB on attribute storage since you are all about citation.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/33/#e2766

Necarion

The compounding trick that the Lord Ruler performed. When you're storing Investiture, are you storing your "Mistborn-ness" or all the powers individually?

Brandon Sanderson

All of the powers individually.

Necarion

Oh okay!

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, the compounding trick. Really what's happening is you're fueling Feruchemy with the power of Allomancy, but you're filtering it through you, and then you're storing it.

Necarion

So it's not that you're a more powerful mistborn when you've tapped [investiture]

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question.

Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

This indicates that Nicrosil would store strength, speed, health, balance, agility and any other invested attribute from pewter burning separately, and it also answers why windwhisper store senses in separate metalminds if they are also Tineye burning tin to be stored. The real question then is does it get stored as allomantic or feruchemical strength since Nicrosil stores investiture not specifically strength. Brutes store the strength as Feruchemical strength from burning pewter so their muscles would enlarge when they tapped it, but Nicrosil might store it as a magnification of strength instead without the attendant muscle increase.

Just food for thought.

18 hours ago, The Technovore said:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/148/#e2780
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/41/#e7128

@BenduLuke Here's proof of Rosharan Worldhoppers. 

You said this without citing anything. That's the main problem, it's why you're getting so much pushback for things. Folks are throwing out links, and citations to the books and to the author themselves, and, your arguments would be improved if you would or could do the same. I mean this not to be confrontational, but to be honest, and hopefully to give some helpful feedback. 

It's not difficult for Rosharans to leave. It's difficult for Spren to leave. Therefore it's currently difficult for Radiants to leave. But we know from the books that it is indeed possible, through Identity or Connection shenanigans. @therunner already went through some speculation on how it could happen, but the fact that it does happen is already fact. There's nothing to debate on whether it is possible, it's just a matter of how it will happen.

It really doesn't matter if I cite things because you guys regularly ignore them anyway and there are contradictory citations to support that attitude.

I never said impossible I said difficult, and perhaps even complicated. Even your second WoB say it is difficult and unusual.

11 hours ago, therunner said:

Yes, the example you mention is in the other WoB I have shared, one I based my calculations on. The issue is that you still ignore the other WoB, the one I shared as well (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/153/#e2803) which directly state that the loss when tapping large amounts of attribute does not depend on rate of storage. Here is the WoB

See? The compounder could not overcome the loss when tapping large amounts, they run into the same limitation as the normal Feruchemist, hence I would expect my analysis to roughly hold. The advantage compounders have is only in the size of their stores, they still suffer from losses at the same rate as any other Feruchemist.

So if air resistance could kill you (also this WoB, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/93/#e2695), they cannot move much faster than Mach 2, as at that point the air resistance would heat them up to ~120 Celsius quite quickly, in practice they would be limited to Mach 1.5 maybe. So they would definitely not reach your examples of Mach 280. Example of Marasi complicated this a bit, but she was moving at Mach ~7 only for about ~0.5 second at best, so not enough time to heat up.

I do not understand what you meant by the comment about metalmind being good but incomplete.

Sidenote: You can put citations from Arcanum into quotes, it makes it more readable.

@The Technovore already answered this (thank you for that), and included links for Rosharan's being on others planet some thing I was not aware off. I will add my own thoughts.

On if Roshar will travel before Scadrial, um I would expect so. Anyone who is not Radiant can already travel outside of Rosharan system, they just need to either convince Coalition to send them to Shadesmar, or find Cultivations' perpendicularity and cross over. Then it is mostly question of walking. If Radiants will do it any time soon, well that is a bigger question. However, based on WoBs it seems it is an issue of spren's connection to Roshar and since we now have unchained Bondsmiths for whom modifying Connections is as easy as reaching out, I do not think we will have to wait long.

Ultimately, Roshar has the means to enable mass off-world travel already, even for Radiants, they just need to put the pieces together. Conversely Scadrial does not yet have the needed technology yet, their ships and occupants of those ships would not yet be able to travel outside the atmosphere, let alone a solar system, and developing that material science will take at least a century for them, possibly more.

I think this is wrong and actually provably so.

If it worked as you say, than any time Full Feruchemist would store their Identity enough, all their previous stores would become unkeyed metalminds, even the aluminum-mind with their Identity. However, unkeyed metalminds are unknown to Northern Scadrians, despite Terris actively experimenting with spiritual metals. In principle all it would take to discover unkeyed metalminds is to have two aluminum ferrings and experiment with both at once, and since they are already thinking along these directions they would most likely ask them to switch metalminds after filling them and then they would notice that both of those metalminds became unkeyed (if it worked as you say, that Identity-lock in metalmind is being updated), yet they only theorize about such happening. This clearly implies that such things are not happening.

In addition, all the process for creating unkeyed metalminds mention that you need to store Identity first, and only then you can create unkeyed metalminds, something your thesis contradicts.

EDIT: The best counterargument, and I did not think of it first. If it worked as you say it does (connection to metalmind updates Identity-lock) unkeyed metalminds could not exist at all. Any time someone would created one, the second they stopped storing Identity, the metalmind would revert to a keyed one, i.e. it would no longer be 'unkeyed metalmind' and so unkeyed metalminds could not exist as they do in-world.

In light of the above, I do not think your thesis holds, i.e. I do not think Identity-lock on metalminds is actively being updated.

Yes I looked at the WoB you posted and it is incomplete in other words missing the context of what he is actually describing.  Note after the bolding. In this WoB he uses the term compounding to indicate tapping faster than storing so tapping in a forshortened period of time not twinborn compounding when read in context.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e6126

"Sporkify

This is more towards the whole physics stuff, but is Feruchemy really balanced? If it gives diminishing returns, wouldn't this end up as a net loss of power?

Brandon Sanderson

It doesn't diminish. Or, well, it does—but only if you compound it. You get 1 for 1 back, but compounding the power requires an expenditure of the power itself. For instance, if you are weak for one hour, you can gain the lost strength for one hour. But that's not really that much strength. After all, you probably weren't as weak as zero people during that time. So if you want to be as strong as two men, you couldn't do it for a full hour. You'd have to spend some energy to compound, then spend the compounded energy itself.

In more mathematical terms, let's say you spend one hour at 50% strength. You could then spend one hour at 150% strength, or perhaps 25 min at 200% strength, or maybe 10min at 250% strength. Each increment is harder, and therefore 'strains' you more and burns your energy more quickly. And since most Feruchemists don't store at 50% strength, but instead at something like 80% strength (it feels like much more when they do it, but you can't really push the body to that much forced weakness without risking death) you can burn through a few day's strength in a very short time if you aren't careful.

Footnote: This question was asked when fueling Feruchemy with Allomancy had only been seen in Rashek. As such, the term compounding is used purely to reference tapping at a higher rate than can be stored.
Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)"

It doesn't really matter if the steelrunner can safely run Mach 2 because even a person running 100 mph would be almost untouchable by almost any opponent. Where do you get the idea that running Mach 2 would create hazardous levels of Friction? Besides any material or armor that reduces wind resitance would enable greater speeds without risk.

There are many Scadrians across the Cosmere as noted by the list presented and others I have seen so it must not be as much of an issue for them entering Shadesmar either and they can travel with their investiture intact. Brandon has said that metalborn access to their investiture is the most accessible everywhere.

Unkeyed metalminds don't have a connection to any Identity so there is nothing to update.

Aluminum was an unknown metal at the time of Full Feruchemists by TLR's design and only in era 2 as it becomes more accessable is it actively being studied by the Terris scholars and they don't really understand it yet. From some of the WoB's I read it sounds like Brandon has plans for Aluminum compounders but not likely until era 3 at the earliest.

Finally in summary of this thread so far:

The majority opinion of those engaged from the beginning is that the ultimate weapon in the cosmere is the shardblade more so than guns, and explosives in combat. Shardplate is all but indestructable and can withstand nearly any amount of damage or attack from anything except for the aforementioned shardblade, and it grants superhuman abilities of strength, and speed to exceed anything else in the cosmere. In addition healing provided by the Nahel bond exceeds all other investiture healing. Radiants are so powerful that there is not contest between them and Metalborn under almost any circumstance. There are not enough martial examples of metalborn powers to allow for speculation based on described properties to contradict the majority opinions. The ultimate Radiant order is the Bondsmith who can with god like power overwhelm anyone else in the Cosmere and strip them of all power at a whim. Because of this it is only a matter of time before Radiants establish a totalitarian empire across the Cosmere as a result of their unbeatable investiture.

This opinion seems to be held despite individuals on Scadrial capable of destroying castles and buildings, moving faster than can be tracked, or healing from explosions and decapitations, and powerful enough to throw horses and split people and horses in two with a sword all at once. Even with the Wolverine like healiing provided by compounded Gold no other compounded metals could possibly have that level of power available to it because we don't have any example of it.

If it is not obvious I am not convinced at the majority opinion with the seeming idea that the Radiants can crush all their competition from Scadrial such that there is no contest. Honestly I think this topic was misnamed instead of being called Scadrian vs Rosharan magic it probably should have been called how Rosharan magic crushes Scadrian magic and why. I wish that I could say that this topic has been fair and balanced but all the contrary opiinions to the regular majority have been driven off. Not convinced but unwilling to go against the popular opinion. I hope I see something worth commenting on in the future but I wont hold my breath.

Soon I faded off to sleep.

In my dreams I saw the child locked in place so that if I resisted it I would cause its injury or death as they stripped me of metal but locked me into aluminum cuffs to neutralize the powers they thought I had. I was stamped again and again to make me docile and compliant day after day. During one of those periods I saw my chance. They thought I was completely under their control because of the stamp. They thought the stamp would last another day or more, and with almost anyone else it would have, but I swapped most of the stamped identity with my own identity hidden and undetectable within me and jumped through the opening into the unknown.

I woke with my heart racing and sweat on my face from the sensation of falling before I realized that I was safe in my bed.

On 4/3/2021 at 10:20 PM, MiaLaD10 said:

Hey, I've been reading this again and I can say that at least for me you have improved since the first post!

I don't tend to like super strong characters as protagonists but that's a me thing, but the restrictions to maintain all the ideals and identities sounds really cool and interesting for me! 

I would love to say more to help you with the writing or more complex opinions, but English isn't my first language and honestly I'm quite bad at it. The only thing I could say is that in the last story post you had a really big paragraph and that was a little hard to read, so maybe when you see those really big paragraphs you could try to "cut" them in two? If that makes sense for the moment obviously. (this could be a me problem also, because mobile 17 shard has really small lines).

As always, I hope you all are doing okay and having a great day. If you are not, I hope things get better. 

With love, Mia UwU.

Edit: Ohhh, one last thing! How does quicksilver looks? I don't promise to finish it, but I would like to try drawing it. 

You know since I am using first person Quicksilver's appearance hasn't been something easily addressed or presented. Most people I know don't describe their own reflections.

That being said I view him as ageless somewhere between 30 and 60. He is medium height between 5 ft 8 in and 6 ft with a medium athletic build. His eyes are hazel so shift depending on things like light, mood, clothing, and other environmental factors. He has medium reddish brown hair tapper cut slightly curly just above the ears. Oval face Mediterranean clean shaven features and lightly tanned olive skin. His eyes are his most prominent feature since they are piercing otherwise his appearance is unremarkable and blends into a crowd. Of course with illusion he can appear almost like anyone.

Kind of an older ageless Landon Kirby from Legacies like appearance with reddish medium brown hair.

13 hours ago, therunner said:

In the WoB, Brandon still does agree that it is roughly 2x for burn, and 3x for flaring. Even the case of Vin you mentioned previously, she matches/slightly outruns a horse when burning pewter, horses run at ~50km/h, so if she was doubling her sprint speed she would be faster at ~70 km/h and with pewter she does not tire. So really, no grounds to assume pewter gives anything more that what is stated in WoB. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/9-calamity-philadelphia-signing/#e7674)

And you were clear on compounder, but also wrong. This WoB (that I already linked several times) https://wob.coppermind.net/events/153/#e2803 , clearly states that any tapping of large amount of attribute causes loss. It does not matter on the origin of the store, it could have been slowly stored over 50 years, or compounder could have compounded it, if you try and tap large amounts of investiture from metalmind you will lose something and that loss grows the more you try to tap at once. Compounder can multiply their stores all they want, but they cannot avoid this fundamental limitation of feruchemy.

So again, compounding does not give them 10x speed for same time, it gives them the same amount of storage that hypothetically is enough for that if there were not losses. However, since there are losses for tapping large amounts of attribute, compounder will run into this issue and they will have losses as any feruchemist would.

The only advantage (and it is a big one) is that they can have far larger stores and get them faster than normal feruchemist ever could.

Problem with your definition of Identity is that it would imply that any change to anything you listed (persons physical aspect, cognitive aspect, connections, personality, experiences, skills, talents) would change Identity, but this would make Feruchemy incredibly hard because the Identity of the person tapping and storing needs to be close (or needs to be a blank identity). We know that stealing an ability with spike will not change Identity of the donor, and in fact the spike carries enough of the Identity to allow the recipient to tap stores of Donor along with the Donor himself (if he regained the ability). To give an example (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98/#e872)

1. You have Alice, Bob and Clara. Alice and Bob are F-Gold, Clara wants it and knows Hemalurgy.
2. Clara spikes Alice (so now Clara has F-Gold from Alice).
3. Clara also spikes Bob and gives the spike to Alice (so now Alice has F-Gold from Bob).
4. End result:
   1. Clara can tap stores she makes and original stores of Alice.
   2. Alice can tap stores she made originally, Bob stores, and any new stores she makes.
   3. Bob is Dead.

I think this carries some implications for Identity, namely that while anything in given persons soul has their Identity, it does not mean that Identity is everything in their soul. Alice's Identity did not change enough by spiking away an ability and being given a new one so much that she could not tap her original stores, and yet she can tap the Bob's stores. This to me suggests that Identity acts like a 'mark' on individual's spiritweb denoting it as someone's. I.e. all the persons Connections/Investiture/Spiritweb carries their Identity, but their Identity is not their Connections/Investiture/Spiritweb.

And on compounding aluminum, we have WoB that it would not do much (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1131), WoB RAFOing if it is even possible (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6334) and RAFO WoB if we will just see it (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10864).

For Roshar we have Hoid in Era 2 demonstrating it can be done (unless he broke the bond, but considering how happy he was I doubt that) and Sixth of the Dusk sequel showing people other than Hoid can do that.

The first sentence completely ignores all the worldhoppers we know exist and who travel through Cognitive all the time (plus entire city of Worldhoppers exists in Cognitive), we have (in parentheses is where we have seen them)

1. From Nalthis: some of Five Scholars (Roshar), Vivenna (Roshar)
2. From Scadrial: Aslydin (unknown), Axindweth (Roshar), Demoux (Roshar), Felt (Roshar), Iyatil (Roshar), Lemex's Nurse (Nalthis), various Kandra (unknown)
3. From Sel: Galladon (Roshar), Ire which includes several Elantrians (Scadrial cognitive), Riino (Roshar cognitive)
4. From Taldain: Khriss (seen everywhere), Baon (seen on Roshar)
5. From Threnody: Nazrilof/Nazh (traveles with Khriss, so again almost everywhere)
6. From Unknown: Sleepless (Roshar, other planets)

Nalthis even has customs for world-hoppers to go through. And in-world there are many more worldhoppers, to the extent there are many organizations and interplanetary trade is a thing (one trade route went through Pits of Hathsin). Travel through cognitive is not something only Hoid does, pretty much everyone does it. And Ghostbloods have off-world members, Iyatil (Mraizes babsk) is from Southern Scadrial.

Transportation of stormlight is currently problematic, but as it is possible to re-attune light to a different one in vacuum it might be possible to create 'blank'-light that has not particular tie to Roshar and carry that off. Although it might have to be either kept in vacuum, or put in aluminum containers. Bigger problem is carrying spren off-world (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36/#e1474) as any Cognitive entity has a tie to their world (Kelsier is currently trying to figure out a way around this ,https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10799), but examples from SotD 2 and of Vasher (who himself is cognitive entity, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127/#e5078) show it can be done, and that some might have it easier than others.

Maybe an unchained Bondsmith could take the connection spren/Cognitive entity has to the planet, and sort of tie it back into the spren, creating a loop that starts and end with a spren?

I know that if you tap a metal mind faster than it is stored you lose a potentially significant portion of the storage, and the more protracted the tapping the more you lose, but if tapped at or below the rate of storage it is a lossless exchange. One example I saw was that if you store half your weight for an hour you can be 1 1/2 times heavier for an hour or perhaps 2x heavier for 1/2 hour. The limit for a steel compounder is not so much how much speed they have available but at what point it becomes physically damaging to go any faster. The metalmind you attached is good as far as it goes, but is incomplete.

mweaver9280

How fast could a steel/steel Twinborn move?

Brandon Sanderson

You'd hit physical limits eventually. While the Metallurgic arts generally enhanced the body to deal with the powers granted, things like air resistance would hold you back--perhaps even kill you--if you weren't careful.

/r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 16, 2013)

How many from your list from Roshar were Radiants? I didn't say no one was traveling, but it seems like an unusual activity and not easily scale-able and also problematic especially form Roshar. Hoid probably knows how to power his Radiant surges with other sources so may not need stormlight. That wasn't my question though. Does it mention anywhere that Roshar will likely be able generally to travel before Scadrial opens that option within the physical Realm? Even a whole city is barely a drop in the bucket to any of the worlds. 

Yes every change or experience would change a persons Identity, but the metalmind is connected to them, so that connection updates the identity lock as it happens even when not actively storing or tapping it.

ps. I reviewed your list and noticed you don't have anyone from Roshar which seems strange but supports the idea that it is difficult for people from Roshar to leave but not as difficult for people from elsewhere to go there, am I missing something?