Duxredux

Agreed. To actually get to the point you could think yourself healed and dandy while in extreme pain would take way more... practice than most people would ever want to go through, since it's a trick of the mind. You'd have to get blown up more times than Wayne. It does make me wonder if they would be able to heal after applying an anesthetic to the injury. Amputation might be out, though phantom limb syndrome is a thing. Maybe for a Returned, healing this way would take effort and accelerate the time table that they need to consume their weekly Breath, the acceleration based on the extent of the injury? That seems logical.

Two options depending on if the light itself has an Investiture component or not. If the light is Investiture-based, they would not show up in an aluminum mirror, and the metal would disrupt the Investiture-based light waves. That could be a viable illusion detection method. Now I want to know what aluminum looks like under Taldain's sun, since that is a known Light with an Investiture component. If Lightweaving does show up in an Aluminum mirror, then the light itself isn't Investiture, and that will have a very important impact once Lightweavers start shooting lasers. The internet puts aluminum foil at 80-88% reflectivity, so around 12-20% of the energy of the laser is getting absorbed as heat on contact. Fire a powerful enough laser and it will be able to burn through Aluminum, and once the metal begins to blacken it will become even worse at reflecting light and will absorb more heat. This could be very important for space combat. Either way, I think the answer to your question has important Cosmere relevance. I doubt it will come up, but I suspect that burning Atium would let you see the person beneath an Illusion.

Would you trim your eyebrows if they were so long that you could tuck them behind your ears? I probably would. I have normal length eyebrows and they get caught in my glasses hinge. I have no idea how it happens but it has more than once. It hasn't been annoying to the point that I shaved them off, but mine are a fraction of the length of Thaylen eyebrows. At some cultural level they decided to embrace the eyebrows instead of cut them, otherwise they wouldn't be so iconic. Long eyebrows are way easier to remove as a racial indicator than crystalline fingernails. As for cultivating long eyebrows, I have no idea what would work because we just don't do that IRL, but I assume it would be a similar to people who try to grow long eyelashes, or anyone who has a care routine to maintain healthy hair longer than a couple inches. Hair growth and maintenance are two different categories I think. Fashion can definitely encourage behavior that others would find unusual. Long eyebrows are way less physically harmful than IRL footbinding or the neck rings of Padaung women (don't look up either term if skeletal structure displacement disturbs you). Various cultures have had fashion practices cultivating a physical look specific to their people for a long time. Me personally, I advocate comfort as a major requirement of fashion.

I think that it depends on what portion of the soul you're trying to harvest. If the two portions of the soul are distinct enough, then you could probably fill both spikes normally, but if there is overlap you may just not get enough of the soul to power either ability you're trying to steal by dividing it down the line. Or... maybe it would work anyway. I have no idea if the analogy works, but comparing Hemalurgy to organ transplants, if you divide a liver in half and donate it two people they can each get a small functioning liver, but you can't do the same for kidneys and corneas (as far as I know). I could see it depending on how the Spiritweb works and I could see the organ transplant analogy working if the possibilities change based on the target attributes. For example, I could see physical strength and memories being distinct enough to steal separately, but maybe destiny and Connection are too related to separate. Maybe memory can be easily divided, but it's a coin toss for what memories you get in each spike. I could see trying to divide an Allomantic ability in half resulting in neither spike being able to grant power. I think any of these options could make sense.

@kaladin x happiness, you tagged this for help, so... do you want us to try to help convert your sister to the Cosmere, or is this a place to express the travesty you beheld? My question is what does your sister like in books in general? Surprising as it may seem, some people actually prefer to read a short nonfiction book, a biography, romance, sci-fi, or a mystery rather than a 1200 page epic fantasy. I'm not sure how many I know, considering I got my wife to read Elantris last year and I've been trying to get her to read Mistborn this year, but apparently that is a thing. I didn't start my wife with Stormlight Archive because I know she doesn't have the time for it and will take probably a full year to read it. If it takes long enough that she can't keep the story lines and character development in her head it won't have the same impact as it did for me, since I read books like this in under a week and often a single day if I can get away with it. I guess... what kind of response are you looking for? Does your sister already read Sanderson? Did you introduce her to the Cosmere with Stormlight, or has she read other books first? Does your sister know how much you love Sanderson and is just messing with you?

Just throwing out an idea, maybe Singers have difficulty becoming Radiants because they already have a Singer form that corresponds to each of the higher spren? Traditional Singer bonds with each spren seem to grant transformation to a specific form with an accompanying passive ability, which is quite different from the massive bursts of power seen in Radiants. Notably Rlain remains in Warform and Venli stays in Envoyform despite their Radiance. It's operating on a different method than their usual spren bond. It wouldn't surprise me if becoming a Singer Radiant somehow requires either avoiding the same transformation process that Singer forms naturally have, or hacking the system like Timbre seems to have done by sharing a gemheart with a captive spren. For that matter, Fused forms seem to have a power that is a passive ability that they can use indefinitely, such as flight, and abilities that require Voidlight, such as lashing other objects. Maybe a normal Singer bond with Honorspren still gives personal flight but no external abilities? That's pure speculation. This next thought is by no means related to the mechanics of Singer and spren bonds, but it reminds me of how koloss gain a passive ability and change in form, whereas an Inquisitor gets bursts of Allomantic power. They gain power through the same art of Hemalurgy, but the differences in methodology gives a passive effect to one and access to powers fueled by Preservation to the other. The difference between Singers and Radiants seems similar, passive ability versus abilities fueled by Honor's power.

Something that I'll point out for the life of the farmer at the Catacendre is that they probably had to relearn everything from the ground up, either from experimentation or The Words of Founding. The climate, cooler temperatures, lack of ash, plant physiology, and length of season all got changed when Harmony remade the world, and best farming practices all changed when you didn't have to clear ash from your fields for these weird green, orange, yellow, red things that looked nothing like what they had ever known before. Planting times, at what stage of growth you harvest, what plants were viable edible crops, what part of each plant was edible, that all changed. Even if you farmed all your life, I have no idea what knowledge would transfer to the new world, but it would be strange. Farming from here required scholarship because learning about what changed required literacy and access to The Words of Founding. Knowledge is power, especially for a new world like this one, and their scholar god left them a radically different world and a pile of books. I'm sure Sazed gave them some of his indexes that he had used as a Keeper but I've been unsure if learning about the changes was a matter of reading a how-to encyclopedia that Harmony compiled, or of they had to trawl through 400 religious texts and piece it together themselves. At any rate, learning the changes for the world likely started from the literate who directed the work and the illiterate who provided the labor, even if it was just picking fruit off of abundant trees or learning proper harvesting techniques for grain, berries, etc. As evidenced by Wax's name and title, Breeze certainly got other people to do the dirty work for him. We do know that however it was setup, it was setup by city folk. No idea how this developed over the next centuries, but the start would have been incredibly confusing initially for the farmer. Things that are simple for us, as basic as peeling an orange, that was new.

I definitely don't have personal experiences with meltdowns or epilepsy, and correct me if I'm wrong, epileptic seizures are periods where the brain has abnormal electrical activity which can sometimes cause temporary sensory and motor function changes, right? A gross simplification perhaps, but my guess is that Renarin hasn't been cured of epilepsy, his brain now has neural pathways that are used for his Surgebinding abilities, and his visions are a different expression of his condition. His visions like his "episodes" are involuntary, and that's part of why I think they may still be related. This is separate from autism and meltdowns. He can still have autistic meltdowns that are separate from epilepsy, and I don't have enough experience to differentiate if one or the other or both are present in Renarin's life (I have been with people melting down but seeing it isn't the same as experiencing it). If he has both, that may make it harder for Kaladin to diagnose, especially considering Rosharan mental health knowlege.

I think Dalinar at the end of WoR was in better fighting shape mentally to deal with Szeth's Surgebinding tricks than the addicted, haunted wreck he was at the time of the banquet. Sober Dalinar at that time was not necessarily lucid. Dalinar in the throes of the Thrill is extremely hard to kill and a terrifying fighter, but he's also much, much easier to bait and manipulate. He probably would have provided little or no teamwork, support, or protection for Gavilar in that state (other than the classic saying that the best defense is a great offense)and would have relentlessly pursued Szeth, which may not have been very helpful against someone with Szeth's mobility and cunning. I will note that Dalinar's conclusion and fighting methods were operating off of false data, if Adolin passed on Kaladin's tip to go for the spine with his Shardblade. Kaladin was assuming Szeth's healing operated similar to his own, and could also heal from Shardblade wounds, and as far as they knew this was true. Maybe Dalinar would have fought differently if he knew he could wound. That said, Szeth completed his entire assassination list against kings and guards armed with Shards without getting hit by a Shardblade once. I think Dalinar was right that he wouldn't have been able to beat Szeth.

I think... I think maybe there's a difference between the way the soul is warped by getting spiked with power, and the power itself that's stapled on. Maybe physiological changes are more likely to become genetically heritable? I think a way to check this is if the vital organ placement of the children of Inquisitors has changed or not. I could see that the intrinsic warping of the soul can potentially change your sDNA in a heritable way, but the soul that got stapled on won't get passed on? I'm stretching, and I think Brandon may not have a solid answer yet or maybe he changed his mind. The WoBs from 2013 and 2019 seem to contradict each other to me.

Well... I have a different possible direction to think, and hopefully it doesn't derail your thread. In general there's this huge thing called the Cognitive Realm, Shadesmar, and interplanetary commerce and travel that has been going on for millennia, and the vast majority of people on each planet is unaware of this. Why is this so hush-hush? I'm pretty sure we've gotten confirmation that there are worldhopping Kandra and Southern Scadrians. Maybe Southern Scadrial is just more aware of the bigger Cosmere and have met those world hopping Kandra? Something that I haven't seen get brought up much is that the Southerners almost certainly have a Perpendicularity with their renewable and reliable source of ettmetal. They run their vehicles on that stuff it's so accessible to them. Considering that the Pits of Hathsin no longer produce Atium, Harmony had to move his Perpendicularity somewhere (and presumably the Well of Ascension) and he apparently he chose to move it south. If he knew what he was doing at the time, he was setting up Southern Scadrial to be the "port city" of interplanetary commerce. I think that's a huge indicator that Harmony does have interests in Southern Scadrial (or if he didn't know he was establishing a point of commerce, he almost certainly will have figured it out now), but I'm not sure why there is so little communication about different continents and worlds in general. It's not just kandra, and continents, it's the Cosmere. My guess is that he has Kandra down south, but hasn't said much to either side of the existence of other civilizations, how they got there, I dunno. Maybe they walked or took a boat, maybe they just explored. I don't know if there's this unspoken rule among the Cosmere that you just don't tell people when you're a foreigner? It probably also has a writerly reason of Brandon trying to keep a handle on how fast the worlds collide and managing the complexity and information curve that he and we have to follow.

I just read this, and I'm glad this thread exists (I had actually been avoiding it for a while because I didn't want to look at a thread titled "Shallan sucks"). I'll admit to being one of those people who kind of skimmed over Shallan's arc in WoK my first read through because I wanted to see what was happening to Kaladin and Bridge 4. I couldn't really root for Shallan to successfully steal Jasnah's Soulcaster, but I had no issues cheering on Bridge 4 as they raised hope and cheer while in devastating circumstances. I like reading Kaladin and Dalinar because aspects of who they are I would want to be like (not surprisingly, my Knights Radiant quiz results put me as first Windrunner 81%, second Bondsmith at 75%, with Lightweaver coming in at 10th, at 41% which is telling of my personality). I think we've agreed that Shallan sucking it up is not a good role model to follow, and watching her do it is hard. Frankly, a lot of stuff that Shallan does are probably things that most people would not want to emulate, and so it can be harder to connect with her. Reading Jash and Kaymyth's comments gives me a different perspective to look at when reading Shallan. I don't need to emulate her to empathize with her or try to understand why she does what she does or have compassion for her. Her grief and the undermining of her self-worth when she tried to help the starving in Kholinar that resulted in them hating her for trying to do something good, that hurt a lot. Was she trying to play Robin Hood? Maybe, but as I think about it I know the crippling sense of fear, despair, and confusion when it feels like absolutely nothing you do works out and finding a causal chain of things resulting in what you hope for feels impossible. She tried, and even if her motives were off, she tried to do good and was hated and rejected for it. Have you ever tried to be nice to someone and then been snapped at? Were you nice to them anyway or did you snap back? I learned I need to try to see past the spikes and walls that someone who has the kind of trauma Shallan has, because hating her will not help her. I think I understand better why her deep secret with Formless and Testament was so devastating for her. Initially that seemed well, kind of a let down compared to "I killed both my parents", but I think it's a different difficult. Over the course of the last few years, she's been undergoing really difficult self-reflection to see what is true in her life with Pattern as her therapist (yikes). The new truths sworn as a Radiant Lightweaver has bit by bit been a process of her reassembling what is true in her life, giving her a firmer grip on reality and understanding herself. Then she learns that all of the progress she's made as a Radiant in trying to repair her soul, she finds out that she's already failed at this once before, as evidenced by Testament being a Shardblade. The "truth" she had forgotten and hidden from herself I think may look to the adult Shallan as "I'm lying to myself that I can actually change for the better." That is a really, really hard thing to overcome, and anyone with addiction that tries to overcome it and repeatedly relapses can talk about the hope-crippling effect that having the knowledge that you've tried to change and failed can have. It's a horrible thing for Shallan in particular, because if she lies about not having "relapsed" she can't move on, if she acknowledges that she "relapsed" then she becomes directly aware of how tenuous her grip on her recovery actually is. The difference between murdering her parents and murdering Testament I think could be described as "I'm a monster and I can't bring them back" and "I'm a monster, and I can't do anything about it to not be a monster".

You're right of course, leadership of the remains of a small decimated dominance may count, but there's a difference thematically, symbolically, and legally that he was the designated ruler over all of the empire, not just the remnants of Terris. He wasn't like Alendi, Rashek, Elend, or Vin who conquered by force of arms or Allomancy. True, he inherited their throne, but he was the first to rule who received the right without ousting or conquering the previous leader (counting Vin in that). That's significant. At any rate, I think the timing as part of Brandon's avalanche was intentional. I highly doubt he made Sazed third in line for succession as a whim.

I've been digging and there's several WoBs that address this. It looks like people have been asking this exact question, and he's given varying negative and positive answers. If it's possible, in order to get the best odds there might be more steps than just get spiked and have kids. Really wish we knew what the inaudible sections are, but it's clearly related.

I keep finding little details that I totally missed before. This one I'd be surprised if it hasn't been noticed already. It's a small detail that doesn't draw attention to its importance, but in Hero of Ages, Elend notes that the Imperial line of Succession goes from himself, to Vin, and then to Sazed. Minutes before he Ascended, at the death of first Elend, then Vin, Sazed became Emperor. The Hero of Ages was removed from the Terris people. He was not royalty himself, but came to it eventually. ...One who is separated from the Terris people, a king of men, a rebel caught between two worlds. I had somewhat glazed over these, as I wasn't sure if they were altered by Ruin to make first Alendi, then Vin as Empress appear as the Hero. Nope, coming in at the last minute, Sazed became the rightful king of men before becoming their god. It's fitting, I think. Maybe this was obvious to everyone else, but I thought this was cool.

Anyone have any ideas on methods to reduce risks of take over for Hemalurgists? I believe Ruin's control was framed as similar to emotional Allomancy, and I've been unsure if control of Hemalurgic constructs is something most Shards could do, or if that was specifically Ruin's gig. Based on emotional control, I wouldn't be surprised if Odium could do it. Aluminum hats make you immune to emotional Allomancy, could that help? Maybe wrapping Aluminum around the point of penetration? Any other arts that could improve resistance to take over? Thoughts?

I'm in the Olmund's C category. I think it's only bad writing if we were supposed to think it was a good relationship, and I'm not convinced that we were. I don't know many good relationships where the attribute one side acknowledges the most is the other's paranoia. That was a clue to me that there isn't much trust in their relationship, and trust to me at least is a core component of good relationships. The relationship was sprung on us, but I'm not sure if they themselves don't consider it a short term fling. No, a year may not feel short term to us, but Jasnah's lifespan is barely a blip on Hoid's timeline. Hoid despite his age apparently has the body of a man in his prime and still has sexual desires. Unless Jasnah becomes immortal, he will outlive her for a millenia if he keeps his track record. There's probably a limit to how attached he let's himself get with people. Jasnah probably knows this since she roughly knows how old Hoid is. So far this isn't Arwen and Aragorn, we just have a mortal trying to save her world and an immortal who will gladly see the mortal's world burn if it moves his agenda. In deference to the thread, I think there are things that Hoid and Jasnah will have to acknowledge or adjust to make a good relationship. Trust would need to be there. Jasnah might have to become immortal for Hoid to seriously consider a long term relationship. They also need more than just a common enemy and low level common goals, they would need to really agree on doing what was best for Roshar and the Cosmere.

Power is a lot about context and relative postition. Elantris with AonDor is one of the best systems for defense. You can't even attack them from the Cognitive Realm with the Dor guarding that front. With a couple hundred half-trained Elantrians that only really knew a handful of Aons they easily wiped out a strike force of Invested soldiers. With sufficient preparation and the ability to power anything and everything with Investiture, they could probably handle most anything that wasn't specifically designed to defeat Aons. The fact that an Aon drawn by an Elantrian will continue to be in effect even if the character itself is erased could be extremely useful in combat situations. In contrast, AonDor is terrible for offensive battles away from Elantris. I might make the case that if you really, really knew what you were doing and had no qualms, then Hemalurgy might be the most powerful. You would have to grant yourself abilities to protect yourself from Shardic or Allomantic interference, but it's a powerful art and becomes more powerful the more diverse opponents you face.

Okay, to actually somewhat support goody153's thread, for platonic buddy, buddy, relationships, I want to see Wayne, Lopen, and Aarik (pre-Lord General) in a room with an audience for comedy night. I think those three would get along great. I almost want to see what would happen if you tossed Tonk Fah in there because there's no way he could beat any of them in a fight, but looking at them you wouldn't know it. The other three would have so much fun without needing to fight him seriously.

I can't tell if this is a joke or if you missed what the internet's definition of shipping is. Either way, if it's a joke, I approve. Unfortunately in that vein, Seons are the best "characters" that get shipped off world. They get put in boxes and everything. Aons are a character-based language, right? I'll see myself out.

When Ati died he appeared in the Cognitive Realm long enough to get decked by Kelsier before moving to The Beyond. Where was Leras in the Cognitive Realm? Did his gambit to sacrifice his mind and create Ati's prison actually destroy his mind enough to not leave a Cognitive Shadow? Alternately, did he just show up in the Cognitive Realm briefly at the same spot that his corpse appeared where he encouraged Elend, and Kelsier our viewpoint wasn't there to see it? If it's the first, my respect for Leras has gone up again.

My take? I think different contexts of combinations of Shards can create different Intents, or in other words, War isn't the only one they could have gotten. I think that Raboniel and Navani got the Rhythm of War because that was the context of their relationship and how they had to modulate the tones together to fuse the Light. They were at war. Justice or judgment wasn't really even a consideration of what was happening at Urithiru, and if that had been the Intent/Rhythm of the combined Light, that would have been unusual. Fusing the Light had to be intentional, I highly doubt you could do what they did on accident. To an extent, war for a righteous cause, such as protecting the weak, is both a terrible and noble thing. That was the context of humans and Singers together protecting the fallen Radiants as well, sounding the Rhythm of War. It wouldn't surprise me if Justice, Judgment, or Wrath were also possible results of combining Voidlight and Stormlight, based on the Intent and context of how the Light was combined.

Per the Coppermind: I think this is best demonstrated at the end of Oathbringer directly after Dalinar opens the Perpendicularity, she still needs to go find some food to eat to fuel her Surgebinding.

I agree, I think there's good evidence that the weird pool on Elantris is a Shard pool and by extension a Perpendicularity. People that get tossed in there may not be dying, rather they may be traveling away. Being Hoed does not mean you are dead, a perhaps obvious statement but one I think is relevant. We know that it's possible to leave Sel despite the... complication for traveling the Cognitive Realm on Sel. I'll also note that we have seen a corpse tossed into a Shard pool before, and it didn't seem to make the deceased into a Cognitive Shadow. I assume @CognitiveShadow you know about the Ire and and Perpendicularities considering your profile picture? Also, welcome to 17th Shard!

I've been digging into this and it doesn't seem like a simple distinction and could be too speculative. Szeth believes that it requires 10 heartbeats to summon Jezrien's Blade and has trained with the different Honorblades so it seems as if it's not specific to the Blade. If it was a matter of perception was brought up in this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12612). Moash in RoW Interlude 4 also requires 10 heartbeats, but he specifically notes that Adolin was able to summon his Shardblade in under 10 heartbeats and can't do so himself. Ishar was able to "skip" his own Blade. My conclusion is that it isn't a matter of perception. What I don't know is if any Herald could instantly summon and dismiss any Honorblade they were bonded to, or if only the Herald using their own Blade can do this. I don't even know if it's more complicated than that, if Ishar did some unchained Bondsmithing between himself and his Blade, though there isn't any particular reason to suspect that he did so. Any thoughts? Should I move this train of thought to a different discussion?