Duxredux

I don't know enough of how Breath interacts with the Spiritweb. I assume you could spike someone and get a piece of their Identity, but I'm not sure if you would get all or even most of the Breaths that they were holding. Once they die, the Breath would fade, so it seems like a rather lossy method. If those are limitations, then maybe F-Steel and in really rapid succession, kill them with a spike, spike myself with it, and then Command "Your Breath to Mine". If I got enough of their Spiritweb, and was fast enough I could pull any remaining Breaths from the body before they fade, maybe that could work? Question, does anyone think the "spike them with a bunch of spikes until you can control them with emotional Allomancy" approach would run into any problems with the Command requirement of speaking in your native tongue? It might not have any issues, but it seems possible that not only Breaths but Commands have an Identity lock on them. If I wanted to get someone else to help, I figure Hoid or Kelsier could scam my target out of the Breaths, but I doubt I would get any of those Breaths in the end.

How many Breaths are we talking? 1 Breath? 1st or 2nd Heightening? The Breath of a Returned? The God King? Vasher? This changes both my options and what they would be giving up. It'd be a dumb trade on my part, especially if I settled for 1 Breath, but I might be able to convince someone up to the 4th Heightening if I traded them a Lerasium bead. I probably couldn't convince 5th Heightening or above to a trade without some measure of duress unless I had something else that gave them limited immortality. Convincing Susebron with his tongue? Unless I personally had really powerful resources, I'd probably be hard pressed to make him do anything he didn't want (though it's true that for as Invested as he is, he's really fragile compared to a lot of magic users. Ironic that the magic based on life doesn't grant healing). Right out of Warbreaker, he's pretty trusting, but if he got good at sensing Investiture, he'd probably be really hard to manipulate or control with anything that is Investiture based. Vasher? Be better than him at fighting, and be ready to somehow book it while doing the Breath shakies when he dumps his excess in me.

Hm... the auto immune effects you suggest could make sense, since I think a running nose is an immune system response to flush toxins, bacteria, or viruses out of your system. If storage is lessening your body's immune response/cellular reproduction, I would expect to see less of an immune response, not more. I do wonder if we see F-Gold used as healing, and we think of it as healing, but it's actually doing something fundamentally different that happens to have healing/sickness as a side effect of storing and tapping. Like if tapping Gold is the physical body reverting itself off to its cognitive or spiritual "template" so to say, and storing is weakening that connection, or possibly allowing the physical body to degrade. Kind of my thought process is that A-Gold and F-Gold may be more connected than it looks like on first glance. I'm not sure if that explains how unkeyed F-Gold works, but it's a thought. On a similar note, I wonder if F-Pewter can be used to store mass, not just muscle. Sazed's skin, ligaments, and even bones seemed to grow (but not his skull if I remember right), which doesn't seem to be just "strength", though apparently A-Pewter strength can be stored in a Pewtermind. In this context, another thought for space travel. I don't know enough about this branch of physics, but mass increases as you approach the speed of light, yes? Has anyone come up with something to help with the ship or crew becoming infinitely massive, or are we relying on time dilation to circumvent this? I wonder if F-Pewter could be used initiate the active storage of mass to counteract the accompanying increase in mass, with maybe some sort of A-Chromium sink to syphon off the attributes before the Pewter gets full. Leechers can drain kinetic Feruchemical arts. Thoughts?

It's hard to quantify some of these things. Whoops, read again and pulled Sazed out of my list. Ishar might count. We don't know the half of what's really happened, but he formed the Knights Radiant, probably helped wreck Ashyn, founded the Oathpact which kept Odium bound for millennia, came up with leaving Taln in Braize, and who knows what he's experimenting with now. Just because he's been stuck in the Rosharan system doesn't mean he doesn't have an impact on the rest of the Cosmere. Just knowing that the kind of stuff that Ishar has done and can do is possible seriously expanded my view on what can be done with the magic systems.

I guess this depends on how we determine what is Hemalurgy on a fundamental level. From a certain perspective, if we're talking using an invested object infused with at least part of a spirit/soul that can grant abilities or rewrite components of the Spiritweb, I wonder if Amaram eating Yelig-nar at the end of Oathbringer could count. The parasite idea is clever, and if they're granting Aviar abilities by somehow piercing the Spiritweb, that could make sense. If we're talking specifically spiking someone with metal with a chunk of someone else's Spiritweb, then neither of these would count. This has been asked again in 2019: Whatever that means.

I'm probably late to the party, but I read the other 7 pages and have my 2 cents. What Marasi did with the Bands of Mourning is weird, and I don't know if that weirdness is unique to them or if it's something a Fullborn could do with preparation and separate metalminds. If Marasi really did tap everything and was using 16 Feruchemical abilities simultaneously, then the effect of the whole seems to be different than the sum of the parts, since it didn't do what I would expect from the component powers. We didn't see her become immensely muscular, heavy enough to crush stone, incredibly hot, or experience effects of hyperventilation. We didn't see her senses do whacky disorienting things, other than the fact that somehow she could see the vacuum caused by waving her hand, and I'm not sure what that even means in terms of visual acuity. I don't think those attributes were empty either, since at least senses and strength are totally things that Kelsier would have made sure to keep charged if he kept speed. Then there's Wax's conversation with Harmony. I don't know what that space really was (Cognitive realm? Spiritual realm?), and if Harmony was letting him see stuff that you couldn't otherwise, which we know by the representation of Trell, but Wax could see a bright light from whatever Marasi was doing from space. The discussion has had quite a bit of stuff with jumping in and out of the Cognitive realm, but I don't really know if/how Shadesmar or the Scadrian Cognitive realm would be affected by a Fullborn or user of the Bands of Mourning in the height of using their power, because I suspect it wouldn't be what we currently have on our tables. This probably doesn't actually help the conversation, but I feel like we've only gotten a glimpses of what a Fullborn, 4th Ideal Radiant, or Bondsmith could do, and that Brandon probably kept some of the coolest stuff off the table for later books. With what we know now, it might come down to a level of preparation. If the Fullborn is someone that can mass produce the Bands of Mourning... if the Bondsmith can hack the system and steal bonds from other orders and gain access to multiple Radiant Order powers or build their own army of Radiants without constraints... there's huge ways this could go either way. Do they care about collateral damage, or is blowing up a planet okay? I don't know if we know enough to say conclusively, except it would end up being whatever Brandon thought was cool. In the end, I agree with what a lot of people have said. In the immortal words of Wayne, "you can beat anybody, so long as you don't let them fight back properly".

Oooh. We know FTL is possible, so we have to build a space ship, right? Rather than medallions, astronauts use Iron boots to store their personal weight while A-Iron provides artificial gravity (though the pull would lessen as metalminds fill. Maybe they rotate them out or just have thin plates that aren'ta metalmind?). Providing for other necessities like air, food, water, and heating, all are pretty obvious. A nicrobursted Cadmium bubble could put crew members into stasis for long journeys.

I'll also use Wayne as an example for Gold. F-Gold can remove toxins from a body (alcohol), and for some reason when we see him actively storing in AoL, he has a running nose and cold symptoms. When he's trying to store a lot, he spends most of the time sick in bed and drunk. I don't know how or why it happens that way, but it looks like active storage can actually make you sick? Crazy Era 4 idea, especially since there are way easier ways to do this. Commuting looks like stepping onto the pressure sensitive launch plate, dumping your weight into your standardized Ironmind, and the plate fires you with Steel to your destination. The destination? A F-Gold plate. Or they could slow you with Steel and Iron.

Yes and no. I kind of take Era 1 as only pseudo-canon for Cosmere-level significance since Brandon was still working out the kinks. We see this happen, but not consistently. In Era 2, Miles pushed bullets out of himself by healing, but that's Savant level compounded Gold. His mask got caught when Wax shot him and restricted his healing until he pulled it free. He didn't expel the dagger he stabbed himself with when brawling with Wax, or the Goldminds that Wax said he kept charged and piercing his body. Maybe he could selectively choose not to expel certain things? I could see the speed of healing affecting this.

I've got some mundane worldbuilding ideas. Here are my supermarket / commercial ideas: Vendors that let you recharge your calorie and fluid levels. (Pay to withdraw from the F-Bendalloy bar at the counter) Bronze sensor / cash register that detects amounts deposited/withdrawal of Feruchemical stores Fashion doesn't need to be functional. F-Brass built into outfits. Refrigerators! Budget are F-Brass based, high-end use A-Cadmium F-Bendalloy weight loss clinics Movies/books/media, F-Copper F-Brass A/C and heating units F-Pewter kit for home moving/manual labor jobs F-Gold first aid (revolutionizes first aid, medical field specialists still needed for congenital conditions, OB/GYN, etc.) F-Tin anesthetic A-Steel and F-Iron speed commuting Less mundane ideas: F-Copper used for deep cover agents. They literally don't remember who they are or any sensitive information. A-Bronze radar F-Brass to deal with re-entry level friction for vehicles, trains, people, etc. (Thanks for catching the mistake, Anomander Rake) Do we think that Era 4 tech will be able to use savant level control? For example Brandon suggested that an A-Bendalloy savant could shape their bubble, which I think could open up quite a lot of options.

If we're talking medical advancement, then I think there's something here. If we're talking functioning as an undercover operative or being a "time bomb", then I can't see this being more useful than just fully impersonating the target. I don't think any of Harmony's kandra would do this kind of skullduggery, and if a rogue kandra has the opportunity to replace a limb, odds are they could have kidnapped, interrogated, and eaten the target, giving them full freedom of motion rather than being restricted to whatever the target does. There are exceptions, like if the kandra knows that the target is smarter than they are and wants to allow them autonomy to see what they do, but still usually less useful than just eating them.

Yeah, Quantus's response on required quantity is what I think would end up happening. Feruchemists are different than most people in that they can convert things like memories or sensory input into Investiture beyond simple physical structure, but considering how fast Nightblood eats Stormlight, it still probably wouldn't be enough. Now considering you can dump entire libraries into Copperminds... What about someone just dumping their memory into Nightblood, and not what they are actively experiencing? Now the wielder doesn't remember squat, which is worse. I kinda want to ask Brandon this, if only for his reaction. Q&As probably will happen less often now though, and I support his decisions.

I still don't think it's the same as a pure non-metallic substance because it specifically blocks or inhibits Allomancy. You could totally Push on something behind a brick wall but I don't think you could Push on something behind an Aluminum sheet. In Alloy of Law, Wax does an analysis of the Aluminum alloy in the Set's guns and bullets because they aren't pure Aluminum (at least the bullets aren't) and he thought there was ekaboron in there (also known as scandium), which is a rare earth metal. Still couldn't Push on the trace metals in them. That said, we do both agree that getting super powerful Allomancy still wouldn't let you Push/Pull on Aluminum.

I do not believe so. Aluminum is basically like a rock, as far as pushes and pulls are concerned. I agree that boosting Allomantic strength wouldn't let you Push/Pull Aluminum, but I think there's a little more detail than that. Aluminum is specifically inert and one of its properties is that it resists Invested influence far beyond anything I can think of. Nightblood's sheath is made out of Aluminum and seems to do just fine. Considering all of the crazy stuff that we've seen Nightblood do, that's saying something. Rhythm of War spoiler: Other examples, from the Bands of Mourning: I'd say Aluminum is even more Allomantically inert than a rock. Aluminum is weird.

I'm pretty sure we've gotten WoBs that say that someone actively drawing from a Metalmind can use the Investiture to feed Nighblood. Anyone know if a Feruchemist can actively "store" attributes into feeding Nightblood? I have this mental image of an Feruchemist running around and swinging Nightblood while actively dumping their "active memory", weight, sense of taste and smell, and maybe other attributes like warmth. I'm guessing it wouldn't actually work this way, since it seems like Nightblood has an exponential increase in hunger until he's sated, but the idea of a Feruchemist walking up to a group of baddies, drawing the sword, and then coming to themselves when Nightblood clicks into his sheath with black smoke drifting around them... Cool but terrifying.

I'll throw this out there. There's no guarantee that the Raysium weapons aren't an alloy and every reason for Raboniel to underplay the complexity in creating such a weapon. That could explain why it could channel anti-Voidlight without reacting itself. If anti-Light is finicky enough to need a pure Investiture to react to the pure anti-tone, that might make a difference. We'll probably see this in the next book, but we've only seen anti-Stormlight kill an Honorspren. Do we think it would work on all spren, or just Honorspren? Would Cultivationspren be exempt or just Wyndle since he seems to be the only spren powered by Lifelight?

And one more thought after another reread. I might have been reading that WoB wrong. I think Brandon's answer might be talking about Marsh the whole time.

Thought of a possible spike that could make sense for TLR to have. The Hemalurgic Table says that H-Chromium "might steal destiny". Now we only get Alendi's log book and Rashek's later actions, but unless there was some bigger underlying reason for Rashek's behavior (which we know there was), Rashek and his personality seems an odd candidate to be attuned to the powers of Preservation. If I remember right, the Well was an attuning force to allow someone to take up the power of Preservation (though clearly this isn't required), but does someone using the power still need to be attuned/destined to Preservation? Did Rashek kill Alendi and steal his destiny? The catch is that Vin had to remove her earring in order to use the power. Also the question of where Rashek got access to Chromium. Maybe there are weird shenanigans if the spike is specifically attuning you to the power/destiny? I could totally see hijacking destiny to become a Sliver as one of the most dramatic effects, though it's still an obtuse answer. As for why TLR didn't seem to be spiked when he died, he wouldn't need the spike after ascending and probably could have just healed himself

Thanks! Strictly speaking, that's a Coppercloud being used nearby an Awakener, which is a separate thing from an Awakener burning Copper. Probably makes it more likely that an Awakener burning Copper to suppress their aura would work.

No idea if it's already been asked and I can only think of one known case where this possible, but do we think it would be possible to suppress the aura granted from holding breaths by burning Copper? I think Copper has been described as somehow changing something internally that makes it so you no longer give out Allomantic pulses, and I wondered if that would reduce the aura that you personally show without necessarily removing the benefits of the Heightening you've obtained. If this is possible, is there a limit to how much burning Copper can mask a Breath aura? I wouldn't be surprised if you could mask the first few Heightenings, but I'd be really surprised if it worked on the 10th. I'm looking at Hoid who we know had the 2nd Heightening and is a Mistborn, but I'm not sure if we've seen color distortion around him. I know the Returned can suppress their divine Breath, but I'm not sure if we've seen this done with standard Breaths. In fact a case against being able to do it with standard Breaths, we've seen Vasher routinely storing his excess Breaths in his clothing to remove his aura. Thoughts?

Here's a question: what do we think were TLR's most dramatic effects? A few candidates that come to mind are: Functional immortality Moving the planet / creating the Ashmounts (probably only done with the power of the Well of Ascension) Large scale Soothing Creating the Kandra, Koloss, and Steel Inquisitors Changing all existing Feruchemists into Mistwraiths Anything else? Only one of those looks like it requires Hemalurgy if you're Fullborn, though I guess he could have augmented his own abilities with spikes. I think it's possible that changing a human's Spiritweb with spikes to form something completely different might qualify as some of TLR's most dramatic effects. Further Hemalurgic experimentation has proven less successful, so it's not just spiking something, but really knowing what he was doing with the knowledge he gained at the Well of Ascension. I think that may be what that WoB was getting at, and that doesn't require TLR himself having any spikes. In fact, his knowledge of the serious downsides of his Hemalurgic creations probably would encourage him not to get Hemalurgically spiked if he didn't need to.

We have rather limited information on this, but here's a couple relevant concepts. From this, it appears that to a partial extent it was possible to alter the Intent of Ruin? I agree that "alignment of the Intent of Vessel and Shard" may depend on the specific Shard. I'm not sure if talking about "resisting" a Shard's Intent can be looked as separate from the specific Shard, since operating counter to the Shard's Intent will look different in different scenarios. Take Kelsier being unable to attack as Preservation without figuring out a workaround at the end, and Ati apparently who fought to direct Ruin into "constructive" destruction. I would expect the Vessel of Preservation to drift towards stasis or inaction, whereas the Vessels of Odium or Honor would be driven toward action. From a basic psychological standpoint, consider how you would change if you had the powerset of Preservation for millennia - cannot talk to anyone except the deceased as they pass into the beyond, heals and shores up damages to souls, and can hear everyone in the world. Compare that to Ruin - cannot hear the thoughts of men but can talk to them, cannot repair but only damage.

I think The_Nimanator is referring to the flashback when Dalinar goes to meet the Nightwatcher and Felt makes a note that she didn't appear to him because he might be too foreign. Is it because he was a Scadrian or for a different reason? He's a single point of data, but one that seems deliberately placed.

There's a few applications that we've seen. The Shanay-im use a spear with Raysium and humming to pull Stormlight out of Windrunners, and I'm guessing they're humming the tone of Stormlight. Navani singing the anti-Voidlight tone drove off Moash, allowing him to feel pain again. We also don't really see what happens when spren hear anti-tones, and if they're affected far more than a Fused.

With being able to just sing in order to disrupt investiture, anyone think that the 2nd Heightening which grants perfect pitch to suddenly be a lot more powerful and relevant in the Cosmere as a whole?