Tglassy

Atium allowed an otherwise vanilla human to overpower and defeat a Lerasium Mistborn. it burns fast, but thirty seconds for a single nugget is long enough to get in close and do what needs to be done. If you can see the future, nothing can stop you. It doesn't matter how hard Kaladin hits, if his opponent is burning Atium, he loses. Period. His head is coming off, as are any arms or legs that get in the way. Sure, they'll grow back, but no where near fast enough to actually help. They said so in The Alloy of Law. You can kill a Bloodmaker, you just have to keep shooting until he stops healing. With Plate, it'll be harder, potentially a lot harder, but still not impossible with Atium. Yeah, Kal can make a shield with a thought, but the Atium burner would see the shield and know it was coming before Kal thought to make it. He would see when the Radiant lowered the shield, and for how long, and know exactly when to strike. Sure, the Radiant can just sit with a shield in front of his face and wait for the Atium to go out, but the Mistborn won't just be sitting there. That's the only strategy I can see working, to be honest. Survive until the Atium runs out, and hope the Mistborn doesn't see a way around your defenses.

Am I the only person on this forum that WANTS Adolin to become an Edgedancer?

Healing with Stormlight requires stormlight. Without Plate, Kelsior would wipe the floor with Kal, cause all he'd have to do is throw a coin and cause it to rip through him over and over again, forcing him to use Stormlight to heal it until the Stormlight ran out. And it would hurt. With Plate, it would be a lot harder, unless he had Atium, in which case its game over. 250 Atium Mistings took on an army of 100,000 Koloss and only lost once their Atium ran out. A Mistborn with Atium kills everything.

Kelsior took on an Inquisitor in a one on one fight, while protecting other people. No tricks. No special metals. Not even any Atium. It's been a while since Brandon wrote for a Mistborn, if you don't count Secret History. As in 12 years. Which was before the first Stormlight came out. I think he forgets just how many one on one fights and just how many big battles he showcased with Mistborn dominating everything. Also, the Mistborn he wrote about were all thieves. They all liked sneaking around. A Mistborn trained for warfare would be something completely different. Elend was NOT Sneaky McSneakerington. He was front line in the battle raging against Koloss type. Elend, with some more battle training, would most certainly give Kaladin a run for his money in the number of enemies killed. And elend's enemies were bigger and stronger. Kaladin might fight a single Thunderclast at some point, but there's usually only one or two of those in a battle. Koloss get to be 12 feet tall, wielding weapons as big as they are. And Elend killed them as a matter of course. I see no way in the books that a Mistborn isn't as effective on the battlefield. It just doesn't make sense. Kelsior was sneaky, Vin was sneaky, and the House Lords usually used Mistborn as assassins, but the only reason they did that was because NOTHING COULD TOUCH THEM. They were the ultimate trump card. They were rare, and therefore wasted on the battlefield. But when they WERE on the battlefield, they dominated EVERYTHING. And we have not seen a single Hazekiller actually do much damage to a Mistborn. They just slow them down a little. But we HAVE seen normal people pull a Shardbarer down and take them out. It would be harder, potentially impossible, for normal people to do that to a Radiant while they have investiture, but still. A single Mistborn do just as much damage, if not more so, to an enemy army as a single Radiant can, and they can do it from a distance. The main advantage a Radiant has over a Mistborn is that the blade is not dependent on Investiture, so even if they lose all their Stormlight, they still have a blade, but once they lose all their investiture, all it takes to kill them is a rusted nail, assuming the Mistborn has enough steel and iron to push it. And someone said something about Mistborn not being able to set up a medical tent or help with support. Why not? A doctor with Pewter and tin who can work quicker with precision and heightened senses, Pewter for helping with construction, Brass and Copper for psychological support and leadership, Bronze for scouting. There are all kinds of support roles a Mistborn could use. No, they can't outright heal other people (the Surge of Regrowth is one of my favorites), but all of that is simply training. Mistborn in the books usually train on how to kill people, but a Knife can just as easily perform surgery or cut potatoes as it can stab someone. I love in The Alloy of Law how Brandon started showcasing people using their Allomancy for things other than fighting. Soothing and Rioting bars, Coinshot couriers, and the like. That makes so much more sense than everyone always using their power to fight all the time. That's not real life. If I woke up tomorrow and I was a Mistborn, my first thought wouldn't be "Oh gee, look at how many cool ways I can kill someone!" Honestly, it would be "How can I make money off this?" Yeah, Radiants have powers that directly help with things like that, but even just having all that Pewter gives can help in numerous career fields.

Woops. Double post.

Um...I'm pretty sure that's not how reverse lashings work. They're the weakest of lashings, at this point, and really only work with light things that are already in the air. This is because you are still affected by Earth's gravity when a Reverse Lashing is around, so you wouldn't be "pulled towards Syl" unless you were in space. Also, there's nothing keeping Kelsior from just grabbing Syl at that point, or slapping her to the side and grabbing the hilt. Also, I don't know if we should give Kelsior Duralumin or not, but a Duralumin Steelpush should be able to push a Shardblade. Also, I don't know if you CAN put stormlight into a Shardblade, especially a living one. It's already invested. You can't Lash dead plate, so I don't see why a Living Shardblade would be different.

I suppose if you threw the grenade with the INTENT on spiking him, that might work, but I think you have to both know where the spike is going and have the intent on stealing the attribute. I think you have to KNOW all the things involved, and INTEND on doing it, for it to work. Heat wouldn't work. He could just store the heat in Brass and it wouldn't touch him. Shock wave might, but again, he'd be able to increase his strength a millionfold, and then burn Pewter, thus making his body almost impossible to destroy in that manner. The wounds would heal as they are made, and his body would be too strong to just disintegrate. If Storing Investiture, and then tapping it later, really would increase his Allomantic power, then he is able to compound that investiture to have an infinite amount, thus making his Allomancy just as infinite as his Feruchemy, thus making his Pewter so powerful it basically renders him indestructible. We may have to just face it. Fullborn for the win.

Likely it is because investiture on Scadrial takes a different form than on Roshar. Namely, everything is made from investiture. Yes, all matter is investiture, but on Scadrial, it was made from Ruin and Preservation. Investiture shows up as Stormlight on Roshar. You can literally hold it and give it to things. On Scadrial, it is only manifested when a Mistborn burns metals (the metals themselves are not Investiture, but a catalyst to access it), when a Feruchemist stores an attribute (again, the metal merely determines the attribute), and when a Hemalurgic Spike rips off a piece of someone's spirit web. You can't "Give" investiture to an object, like on Scadrial. I'd say that on Scadrial, everything already has whatever Investiture they need. Manifesting it is simply a matter of knowing how. It's possible that in order to manifest, the object in question needs Investiture from its home world. Scadrial would already have all it needs, but things from Sel, like the fortress in Secret History, need a constant pipeline from Sel, and things from Roshar would need Stormlight.

I doubt she'd continue burning Atium while he's hiding in the clouds. He'd be spending investiture while she wasn't. And the point about knowing which way the Radiant will dodge is that you always hit your mark. It doesn't matter how much time he has to react.

Because the plot required it?

The only real thing in all that that I disagree with is the limits of Atium. If you can see a few seconds in the future, then you can close the gap. Vin couldn't escape Zane when he was burning Atium and she wasn't. Zane would see how she was trying to escape, and counter it. Holding your hand over your face for 30-60 seconds leaves you tremendously vulnerable in every other sense. And if you remove your hand for a peak, the Mistborn will know it, and that's when the dagger will hit. And the Mistborn doesn't have to be close to hit with that dagger. Or coin, for that matter. They just need to be burning Atium. They can throw the dagger, or steel push the coin. With Atium, if you don't have atrium, you're dead. Now, if the dagger doesn't drop the Radiant unconscious, then yeah, that's a problem. But unless you're Vin, you can't hit someone who knows where you're going to be, but they can hit you all day long. If we're going with just what's in the books, with Kaladin vs Vin, then Kaladin loses simply because Vin can burn Steel and throw coins around. Kaladin doesn't have Plate. He can turn Syl into a shield, but coins whipping through the air will hit him. Every hit will drain stormlight to heal it. And if Vin has Atium, she'd know exactly where to hit and would hit every single weak spot every time. Kaladin is better in the air, but Vin isn't helpless. Once the Atium runs out, if Kaladin is still standing, then it would be harder, but I still think Vin would have a good chance until her Steel runs out. It really would depend on how ran out first, and I think it would be fairly close in that regard.

That's not unreasonable, my only point was that Mistborn HAVE those powers, even if they don't have access to them in the books yet. If we limit this to what is in the books, then we can't factor in lvl 4 and 5 for most Orders because we haven't seen them, yet. An Era 1 Mistborn with a good stock of Atium can take on an army of monsters, just as a Knight Radiant can, especially if those monsters use metal weapons. Even if they don't, a coin is all they need to kill an entire army. I think they'd be evenly matched, with location and other factors giving one side or the other the upper hand. An Era 2 Mistborn (which we haven't seen, which is why I haven't brought it up), or even a simple Twinborn, with a full set of Medallions is, essentially, a Fullborn. He just doesn't have access to all the powers at once. Three at a time, I think, but switching Medallions is quick. Give him some time to compound strength, speed and health, and the fight is over. Give him some steel plate armor, invest it with Feruchemical Speed so the Shardblade can't cut through it as easily. I think guns would render Plate obsolete. Even if they can't penetrate, they'd weaken, crack and shatter them. And it wouldn't take much to invest each bullet with a Feruchemical Charge. And Primer Cubes would end the fight. Just toss a few Leacher cubes, or a Cadmium bubble. Or both. So yeah. Anyone with the right set of Medallions can pretty much take on anyone, a Mistborn would just need fewer Medallions. Thank you, Compounding. I didn't include those in the initial post because that's using things other than what a Mistborn comes with, and this was to see what a Mistborn could take on by himself. Having metal and weapons is common enough, but anyone, including Knights Radiant, can have Medallions and Primer Cubes. I didn't bring up Era 2 because there aren't any Mistborn that we are aware of in Era 2. If we're going to allow for Medallions and Primer Cubes, we have to allow for Fabrials, which can mimic all of the Surges. Then it just gets ridiculous.

I was thinking about this and posted my thought in another thread, but I decided I didn't want to derail that one. Sleep is awesome. Sleep does so many things for the body. It allows it to recover, healing it from exhaustion and the build up of toxins that make you sore. In fact, "A Good Night's Sleep" is often the cure for many, many things that ail us, including diseases and physical injuries. So if you Compound Bronze and always have the effects of "A good night's sleep", does that mean you heal from sicknesses faster? Does that mean you can run forever and never get exhausted or sore, as the "Wakefulness" constantly renews your body as if you just had 8 hours of sleep every moment of every day? Is Bronze much stronger than it looks on the surface? Or is it simply "You don't need to actually sleep" and doesn't actually grant the benefits that sleep give?

I was thinking about it, and I might make an addendum. I may change F-Brass to F-Bronze. being able to store wakefulness would be great. Sleep whenever you need to, don't need to sleep whenever you don't need to. In fact, I may be tempted to forgo the Pewter Compounding for the Bronze Compounding, as never needing to sleep and never getting sleepy or tired would be insane. There are so many things sleep does for the body. I wonder how far that goes? Do you never get exhausted? Does your endurance last forever? Sleep is how your body recovers from things, but if you can just pull on infinite sleep, then your body never gets sore, or tired, and you'd heal from sicknesses and injuries much faster, as oftentimes "A good night's sleep" is a big part of healing. Yeah, I think I'll switch my alternates to double Bronze.

There is literally no reason a Fullborn would NOT be continually tapping there metal minds. At the very least, they'd be tapping Brass and Gold to have full wakefulness and healing at all times.

Well, first, there's no reason to think that a Mistborn could NOT burn all sixteen metals. if you're going to factor in Lvl 5 Radiants, which have not been seen in the books beyond Nale, then you should factor in a Mistborn being able to burn all the available metals, including Atium. Second, you don't need to ingest a metal to burn it, it just has to be in your body. We have WOB's that state a piercing could be burned. So if we're going to assume that the Mistborn doesn't know that the Shardblade is a God Metal, which it is, then we're assuming the Mistborn doesn't know his opponent or their abilities, and then we have to assume the same about the Radiant. Even then, if the Mistborn knows he can burn piercings (which, granted, isn't showing the books that anyone knows that), then if he gets stabbed by the Shardblade, why WOULDN"T he try to burn it? If I were a Mistborn, that's the first thing I would do if someone stabbed me: try to burn the metal. At that point, you're basically dead anyway, so who cares if the metal isn't allomantically sound? I don't think it would actually happen and we don't know what would happen if you burned Honor or Cultivation's God metal, so it shouldn't be factored in, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. But what IS possible is to be able to burn Atium and its alloys with the sixteen other metals, granting not sixteen powers, but 32. We know one, Malatium, as the alloy with Gold. All we know about them are they "grant various temporal abilities". We also don't know what a Windrunner can do at lvl 5, or what a Skybreaker can do with the Surge of Division, but we're putting them in as if they can use it anyway. And as I've said before, an Atium Misting could kill anyone, period. Knife through the visor. No, it won't kill them right away, but it would hinder them, likely making them black out, and the Atium Misting could hold the knife in until the Stormlight runs out. I know Shallan survived an arrow through the head, but she was seriously messed up and unable to think straight, and when they pulled it out, she blacked out. The Stormlight Healed her, but she likely would not have been able to attack or do much of anything during the process, especially if the arrow had hit a portion of the brain that dealt with staying conscious. You give a MIstborn Atium, even just 30 seconds of it, and the Radiant dies. Knife to the face, and hold him down and drain the Stormlight with Chromium, you have a dead Radiant. Third, there is no special Investiture in Allomantic Metals. The Metals act as a catalyst in the Mistborn's spirit web, not as a source of Investiture. The power comes from Preservation, it is just filtered through the metal as to what power comes out. So no, a Radiant could not just draw in the investiture in the metals, because there isn't any.

Vin didn't have all the metals available to a Mistborn, we've never seen a Mistborn with access to all the metals. We can only speculate as to how those metals could interact. And just as we can't really know what a Radiant is capable at lvl 5, we also don't know what abilities a Mistborn would get burning the other god metals and their alloys. They could even burn a freaking Shardblade, if they could get a piece off one big enough. Or maybe just by being pierced by it. If Vin had access to the other metals, the two temporal and the other two enhancement, then I think she'd be able to take on a Knight Radiant. I think Elend would, too, at the time of his death, because his strength is so high.

We know you can create a Medallion granting an Allomantic or Feruchemical power. Using this, you can make medallions that create Connection and Identity and Investiture. A big time ability of Bondsmiths, the ability to connect with individuals and learn their language instantly, is available to everyone in Southern Scadrial. Could you, then, create a Medallion that granted a Nahel Bond? Store enough of whatever attribute you needed to so that whoever held or touched the object had a bond with the Spren and could then use Stormlight? Could you create a Medallion that granted just the ability to use Stormlight, without needing a Spren? As an alternate, what about Sandmastery? Or to be able to use Aons?

Here's another "Would you rather". They seem to be popular at the moment. The Medallions. They're awesome. They give anyone the power of a Misting or a Ferring, without having to kill someone (that we know of), without breaking your spirit web, and you can have up to three. You can even have three in ONE medallion. I'm imagining Era 3 to be a place where being a Metalborn is no longer special, except in the fact that you become a resource for others in having the ability to help create Medallions in the first place. But every Nobleman will pay for a full set of all the Medallions, if they can get them. I can imagine that even less wealthy individuals will likely get a few. I imagine it as having a gauntlet where you can switch out Medallions as you need to. So, if you had the means to purchase three medallions, granting any of the sixteen Allomantic or Feruchemical powers, which three would you pick? I'm not necessarily asking for what is the best combat, but which three would you actually USE. Go ahead and pick two alternates that you would save up for, for a total of five (though you can only use three at once). For me, I'd probably pick Allomantic Pewter, Allomantic Steel and Feruchemical Bendalloy.. This would give me the physical abilities of a Pewterarm and a Coinshot (I'd love to go sailing through the sky), and I could eat as much as I wanted and just store the excess rather than growing fat. As alternates, I'd eventually want Feruchemical Brass, so I could regulate my own body temperature and never worry about the weather or AC, and Feruchmeical Pewter, not just for the compounding but because I could then always be ripped without needing to exercise.

I've been pondering this for a few days now. Feruchemists were usually portrayed as Stewards and Scholars, but we've not actually seen what a Feruchemist Warrior would have looked like. Surely they had them. Sazed was untrained, and took on a squad of Koloss by himself. Imagine what a Feruchemist who was actually trained in battle, and to use his Feruchemy in battle, could do. I'm imagining them wearing something like Plate Armor, with each part made of a different metal. Steel, mostly, but potentially with some parts made of Iron or one of the other metals, if they're strong enough. Bracers and whatnot under the armor for the metals, like Pewter, which just aren't good for Armor. I imagine them training day in and day out, lifting weights, making themselves naturally strong as bodybuilders, so much so that when they half their strength, they become as strong as a regular man and still are able to move around with their armor on. That would be their natural state, just constantly filling their Pewter Minds, and potentially even their Iron Minds, if at least a little, but without suffering the drawbacks. Every day, for an hour, they'd undergo the same kind of ritual Rashek's men did, growing weaker, but it wouldn't just be weaker, it would be to store every attribute they could; health, physical and mental speed, all five senses, weight, Warmth, and if they have access to the Hybrid abilities, even things like Breath and Determination. They'd be allowed to eat twice as much as a regular soldier at meal times, storing the extra food and liquids in Bendalloy Minds. During battle, their armor would be made to expand, allowing them to draw on their strength. They'd have a massive amount of every attribute to draw on, but of course wouldn't use it all at once. They'd be like a Pewterarm, only using what they needed as they needed it. Most soldiers don't go through more than one real battle every few weeks or months, or even longer, and a dedicated training regiment could make a Feruchemist Warrior veteran intensely hard to kill or defeat. Given enough time, they could take on nearly any enemy, be they Mistborn or Knight Radiant. The main downside is the recharge time. On that note, utilizing Unkeyed Metalminds and the Medallions, you could a Full Feruchemist in modern times could have an entire squad as "Support", where THEY store all the attributes for you into an unkeyed metal mind. You can only wear up to three medalions at once, but a full Feruchemist wouldn't have that problem. Just have one person for each of the metals, each with one medallion that allows to them to store Identity and one that allows them to store another metal, and the Feruchemist could wind up with Lord Ruler levels of power in a short amount of time. Yeah, it's not permanent, or infinite, but it would be fairly close. I'm thinking with the advent of Medallions, a full feruchemist is likely the most powerful person in the Cosmere...

I've said this before, a duralumin enhanced pewter burn should grant enough strength to rip a Radiant's head straight off, plate or no, while at the same time granting the speed and dexterity to do so. Yeah, it'll grow back, but I imagine that would take a moment and be disorienting, especially if the Mistborn then burns Chromium, with or without Duralumin, to drain the Stormlight and potentially interfere with Stormlight Healing in the process. Yes, it takes a bit of maneuvering and planning and maybe a bit of luck, but it is certainly doable. Vin was able to make a man's head explode with a headbutt. Duralumin Pewter is insanely powerful, if only for short bursts. It could even be strong enough to punch through the breastplate, punching a hole in the Radiant. Start burning Chromium while your hand is grabbing the Radiant's spine, and he's done.

I know most of the theories is that its Autonomy, and it does make sense. Trell is a character in White Sands and we know Autonomy likes to make avatars that appear to be gods worshiped on other planets. However, I just finished Alloy of Law for the third time yesterday, and "Men of Red and Gold" just screams Odium to me. Red is the color of interference and Gold is associated with Odium. Also, I believe Trell's "Faceless Immortals" to be a Shadowform Parshendi, like the one who tried to steel the gem in Oathbringer. "Faceless Immortals" is just a term for a shapeshifter servant of a god, and they fit the bill, right down to the Red Eyes. Which, again, goes with the "Men of Red and Gold". But then, Odium is trapped right now. Though, that could be why everything is so low key no Scadrial, Odium isn't able to give it his full attention. Unless he and Autonomy are working together. A "Red Miasma" would indicate one Shard interfering with another, so maybe its the color of the two of them working together to try to interfere with another. Hopefully we'll find out in Wax and Wayne book 4.

So you're wondering if a Twinborn who, say, had Allomantic Pewter and Feruchemical Duralumin were to tap connection, would it make the Pewter stronger? I think it would. That's actually rather potent, in my opinion, because you don't always NEED your Allomancy, and therefore could simply continuously store your Connection until you do. Then you could Tap the Connection to give yourself a big boost to your Allomancy, in this case, Pewter. Almost like using Allomantic Duralumin. But unlike Allomantic Duralumin, it would eat up the entire reserve all at once, it would burn it at the normal rate, because you're just getting more power from the metals, rather than burning them faster.

Finally got back to Alloy of Law in my re-listen. I love this trilogy. I've always hated that all three books are about the size of one regular Mistborn book. Anywho, I've been thinking about Cadmium, because Marasi(sp?) says it's useless, but I don't think it is. In fact, the more I think about it, the more useful it becomes. Not in fighting, of course. But not everything in life is about combat. In fact, very little is. My thoughts about Cadmium is that you just need to use it every time you have to wait for something. Literally, every time. Put laundry in, burn cadmium to skip the hour it takes to wash, then put it in the dryer, skip the hour it takes to dry, then fold the clothes. You gotta go to a dinner party? Go ahead and get ready, then burn a bit of Cadmium to speed up to when you need to leave. Waiting in line at starbucks? Depends on how small you can make a bible, but if you can just surround yourself and no one else, just lightly burn Cadmium in ever so short bursts until the person at the front of the line leaves, then stop and move up a step, rinse and repeat until its your turn. The things bout Cadmium is that you are not aging while you are in the bubble, but the rest of the world is. For a Slider burning Bendalloy, the more they burn the faster they age according to everyone else around them, though it burns quickly and you won't be using it very often. But Cadmium burns slowly, and lets you skip time. Think about how much time you waste in a day doing nothing. If you could get a job where all that was required was for presence, like as a receptionist or a retail employee stuck at the check out counter, you could literally fast forward any time you're not helping a customer and cut the amount of time you are there down tremendously, but still get paid the same. Your sleep patterns would be off, depending on how much you use it in a day, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, because according to the rest of the world, you just don't sleep as often. Depending on how much you use, you may not need to sleep but once every three or four days, as you could just skip nights when everyone else is sleeping and go straight to the morning. And you wouldn't "Lose" time. if you're going to live to be 80 years old, you still live all those 80 years, it just takes 300 years for you to live those 80 years. From outsiders, you eat less food and need less sleep. The biggest downside is that you'll have to get used to the idea that you'll outlive your relatives by a wide margin, depending on how much time you skip. You'd have to be selective as to what times you skip and what times you enjoy.

And then die as a foreign substance is floating in their blood. No, I don't think it would work, because there are multiple flakes in one vial. Sometimes, its' just dust, but it all burns at the same rate. In fact, ingesting dust allows you MORE access to the metal, because of having more surface area to burn. Spook choked down handfuls of tin dust, and it always burned at the same rate.