Tglassy

Someone mentioned Mistborn being assassins and Radiants working better in groups. I would have to disagree, pretty hard on that. Anyone fighting a Mistborn with Metal is at a disadvantage, but the Mistborn's men won't have that problem. Sure, a Radiant can mow through enemy lines. But if the enemy has metal anything, the Mistborn DEMOLISHES them. They don't just kill in a straight line, they kill ALL of them with their own metal. The enemy would have to NOT be using any metal, in which case their men are using less efficient technology, and even so, the Mistborn can kill most of them with a coin. Granted, Radiants can cause likely an equal amount of damage, and can't really be killed, so they could likely take on an army as well, but I just don't understand why people think a Mistborn isn't as good in an army. And, of course, this is all assuming they don't have Atium. An Atium MISTING can take on an army by themselves. We've seen that. A battalion of 250 Atium Mistings took on over 100,000 Kolos and didn't die until they ran out of Atium. A Mistborn with enough Atium would win, hands down, any contest you can throw at it, unless you throw Vin at them. Then they could die. I'm still gonna say they're evenly matched, and the one who wins is the one who makes the fewest mistakes.

I've often wondered if someone burning Steel or Iron could shift where in their body the blue lines emit from. If they could switch it to their hand, or feet, then that opens up all kinds of possibilities.

My advice, just finish it. Oathbringing is long, and drawn out, and especially the stuff with Dalinar seems to paint him as this horrible person, but the end of the book was so powerful BECAUSE of all that setup, that I've gone through the whole series three times just to get to that ending again. Now, I listen to the books, and Michael Krammer's performance is wonderful, so that adds a bit to my enjoyment, but that ending...wow. Hits me right in the feels.

Am I the only one who remembers Mistborn being the driving force in many large, open battles against giants with the strength to rip people in two with their bare hands? Elend and Vin are two exceptional Mistborn, true (Elend being stronger than normal and Vin being more skilled), but still, a front line of Mistborn, each with a full stock of metals, would be scary as hell. Especially if they AREN'T fighting other Mistborn, as then they could outfit themselves with full armor and weapons. I'm going to say that Mistborn and Radiants are evenly matched in the long run. The winner would be whoever made the fewest mistakes. Probably the same regarding Feruchemists. Some Twinborn could even rank up there, depending on the type.

Chromium can drain Stormlight, interfere with the summoning of Shardblades, and drain Breath from an Awakener. Chromium is beastly.

That would be an interesting thing, and if true, then Wax would be able to change his weight simply by burning Steel and having it connect him to Iron. Could be that nobody's ever thought to try it.

Ok, lets look at a few different scenarios. First, lets give them an infinite amount of their form of Investiture. We'll just give them each a Shard behind them, fueling their power, the way Vin did with Elend and the way Honor Blades do. If we go that route, then I'd say Mistborn still wins. Yes, the Radiant has infinite Stormlight, and therefore likely cannot die. I say likely, because I'm not sure how that would work if you just kept them decapitated. The main reason I say that is Infinite Duralumin, Pewter, Steel and Atium. This is near infinite strength, speed, dexterity, and can simply push the Radiant against the wall or ground and hold him there if he has something behind him to push on as well, and the ability to see the future, unless the Radiant drops his armor, which then reduces his strength and allows the Mistborn to rip his head off. Chromium may not work in this case, as we're giving them infinite Stormlight, but I'm having trouble seeing how the Radiant could fight this off. Plate only gives so much strength. The surges would be the tipping points, especially Elsecallers, being able to shift to the Cognitive Realm, and then Soulcast whatever they need to from there, but the others? I'm sure some would do fairly well, but the is at least an even match, depending on the Order being fought. Now lets give them no investiture. No metals and no stormlight. This one's easy. Radiant wins, because they still have their blades and without Metals, a Mistborn is just a man. I'm assuming Living Plate still needs Stormlight to work. But with an equal, yet limited, amount of each of their Investiture, I believe that Chromium tips the balance towards Mistborn, as they'll be able to drain that investiture faster than their own investiture drains. Yes, they need touch, but every love tap drains a little more. Then they just need to survive until the Radiant's Stormlight wears out. Oddly enough, I think a Feruchemist Warrior would fair better against a Knight Radiant. They could have their own version of Plate Armor made up of different metals that double as Metalminds, and since they're metal minds, the Shardblades wouldn't be able to cut through them as easily. That negates the advantage of the Blade. They'd also have healing, strength, speed and all the rest. Mistborn have Bendalloy to counter, albeit briefly, a Feruchemist's speed, but a Radiant doesn't. Tapping speed and strength, wearing Feruchemical Armor, and the only way the Knight wins is if he can stay away and use ranged attacks. Heck, Feruchemical Armor basically mimics Shardplate. Here's a new battle for you: A Fullborn vs a Herald. That would be an interesting match.

Saying "A Mistborn without metals" is equivalent to saying "A Radiant without Gems." You can't use that as factor against Mistborn, because the Radiant has the same limitation. Of course, all this assumes no Atiium, and we don't even KNOW what all the Atium alloys and other God Metals and their alloys do. Mistborn have so many more than just the 18 metals they've shown. An Atium MISTING could take out a Knight Radiant before they get their blade. Even after they get their blade, they could wind up winning. And I'm still thinking a Duralumin Pewter burn could tear a Knight's head off pretty easy, Plate or no. Then you just keep stabbing until the stormlight stops trying to regrow it.

Radiant swings sword: Mistborn burns Pewter, dodges the blow, then grabs their arm, or touches them in any way, and burns Chromium with Duralumin, leaching all the Investiture from both the Armor and the Radiant in one large burst, either causing the armor to disappear or causing it to lock up (depending on how living plate armor reacts to no more investiture.) At the same time they're burning Pewter with the Duralumin, so they punch a hole through the now defenseless Radiant. No more Radiant. I'm sure there are Orders that would fair better than others, but just "Staying away in the air" doesn't really work, because of both Bendalloy and Steel pushing. The Mistborn can launch themselves into the sky with Duralamin Steel Push, and a Duralumin Steel Push can also push on embedded Metalminds, so I'm pretty sure it could push on Shard Plate or Blades. Heck, a Radiant would have a better time of it WITHOUT their plate or blades fighting a Mistborn with Duralumin. And Bendalloy can let them dash around almost like Feruchemical Steel. Adhesion: Chromium Gravitation: Steel push/Chromium Division: Maybe useful, but potentially made moot with Chromium Abrasion: Chromium Progression/Regrowth: Chromium. No Stormlight, no healing. Illumination: Bronze (Potentially. Possible that Lightweavers can't be detected, or are too quiet). Transformation: Chromium (It's harder to Soulcast invested things, and therefore harder to soulcast invested People, like Mistborn. Again, no Stormlight, no Soulcasting) Transportation: Good for getting away from the Mistborn. But doesn't do anything TO the Mistborn, except maybe strand him in the Cognitive Realm, but then you'd have to get past his Chromium to infuse him with Stormlight. Cohesion: No clue, can't see how this would help, though. Tension: No clue, can't see how this would help, though. So yeah. Chromium for the win. Use it with Duralumin, and you potentially bypass the "Time" limitation. Then, it would depend on whether or not you have enough Chromium to drain all their stormlight. If you don't, you're probably toast. Side Note: I wonder if Chromium could kill a Spren? They are, after all, living Investiture...

Spoilers for Bands of Mourning:

This is not Canon. Brandon has stated that they had to have SOMETHING for the rules, but that nothing in the adventure game should be considered canon until it appears in a book.

"Canonical" is a stretch, considering the source material.

I love Allomancer Jak and his trusty Terris Steward, Handerwym. That is all.

I'm not convinced illusions would work against a Mistborn, due to Bronze.

The main issue I have with most of that is Chromium. I can't see how any Knight Radiant could win against a Mistborn, regardless of their combat training, if the Mistborn has Chromium. I read in the Wiki that Chromium can even interfere with a Knight summoning their blade. Yes, a Mistborn without metals is human, but so is a Knight without Stormlight and without a blade. If a Mistborn could get close, and with Bendalloy they could, they could even drain the Stormlight from their Plate, causing it to lock up (not sure how Knight Radiant Plate works yet, but this would work on normal Plate.) As for Feruchemists, yeah, Steel is great, though it is an incredibly difficult attribute to store up. But assuming each combatant had a massive supply of all the different Investitures they have access to, and assuming the Feruchemist tries to come at him with Speed first thing, the Mistborn just burns Bendalloy to give himself a moment to think, then burns Steel+Duralamin to push the Feruchemist's metal minds, the same way Vin did to the Inquisitor's spikes (just listened to that scene. She did it with just Duralamin, before drawing on the mists). Even if the Feruchemist increased his strength and weight to the point where the enhanced Steel Push couldn't move him, it would move the Mistborn away from him, and cause him to use up a massive amount of his strength and weight to do so, if it didn't straight up rip the metal minds from the Feruchemist's body. Distance is the Mistborn's friend. And if Chromium can leach the Investiture from a Metalmind, the Feruchemist is toast. Sand Masters might be able to do some stuff. Though, the Investiture is in the Sand, so Chromium would just Leach the power from any ribbons the Sand Master sent at him. Chromium is the ultimate trump card when dealing with others who can use Investiture. I had forgotten about an Elantrian. Near Elantris, they'd be near unstoppable. Not sure how Chromium would affect them, considering their connection to the Dor.

I don't mean Elsecallers, I mean any one master of any one other magical art. This may be assumed, but in a fight between a Mistborn with a good stocking of vials filled with every metal, and literally anything else, I'm probably going to have to put my money on the Mistborn. There are a lot of reasons for this. The first is the sheer versatility of their powers. They can push and pull on emotions, metals, time, and enhance their senses and physical abilities. They can't heal like a Knight Radiant or Feruchemist, they aren't immortal like an Awakener of the 5th heightening, but I mean geez. The number of things they can do is pretty astounding. The second reason is Duralamin, in conjunction of all of those abilities. Duralamin and Steel can push even Hemalurgic Spikes embedded within a body, which, to me, means a Duralamin enhanced Steel push can potentially push on Shardplate/blades. They can take literal control of almost anything with enough Hemalurgic Spikes embedded in them. Heck, that would be a great way to gain minions. Spike them three times each, and then override their minds. Not to mention a Duralamin enhanced Pewter flare could potentially let them break Shardplate. I mean, it let Vin explode some guy's head with a head-butt. The last reason I'm going to go in to is Chromium. Burning Chromium allows you to drain Investiture. All kinds of Investiture. Leacher Mistings can burn Chromium. So can Mistborn. So on top of all the abilities I mentioned above, a Mistborn against ANY of the other kinds of magic will win. Pretty much period. Because they'll just drain the person's power, and then punch them in the face. I suppose they'd have to touch them first, but they can burn Copper, hiding their power from others who can sense them, and there would be no visible indication of them using it, like Stormlight or the bending of light around an Awakener. I suppose an Awakener of the 10th heightening could cause some damage, as most of their power is ranged. But then, no, because the Mistborn could just use Chromium to leach the Breath from any Awakened object that touches them, and once they touch the Awakener, they'd leach the rest of their power. So yeah. Mistborn for the win. Out of all of them, I pick Mistborn. Or a Chromium Compounding Twinborn. Insta-win against any enemy, plus infinite Fortune? Check, please! Does anyone know of anything that could take on a Mistborn with a good supply of metals?

Well, the Oathgates allow for instantaneous transfer from one place to the other by use of Spren and Stormlight. So there must be a way to do it.

I've been thinking about the Mistborn Edgedancer. I wonder just how high a Duralamin powered Steel Push could throw you if you had the Surge of Abrasion, and a Medallion that granted you the capability to store weight? Sazed mentions being able to store enough weight to float on the wind, if he didn't have his metal minds. If you had no wind resistance, which is the number one limiter of speed in atmosphere, and gravity didn't have as much of a hold on you, which is the number one limiter on distance near a planet, and you burned Pewter to survive the initial Steel Push, and you had a glider suit or something...heck, one leap might take you to the next state.

Ah. Interesting. I'd forgotten about that.

Do we have confirmation that Vin snapped during Childbirth? I thought they established that she had ample opportunity to snap throughout her life?

They can't just kill a baby for their spike. They wouldn't know which power the child might have, and therefore they wouldn't know which spike to use or where to use it. Hemalurgy is an exact science. How old do the kids need to be before they'll snap? I know Spook was 5, but I feel like Sazed would have made it so the mists snap people when they get old enough to survive being snapped, not just the first time they're exposed.

I don't see Endowment as being part of a block with Preservation, Ruin and Cultivation. Preservation is about stasis, Ruin is about decay and Cultivation is about growth, but Endowment is more about giving power. That doesn't do anything with the other three. Ive done write ups on this before, but I think each of the shards belong in blocks of four, with internal, external, pushing and pulling attributes. Preservation, Ruin and Cultivation seem to belong together as a sort of "temporal" unit. Preservation (Internal Pulling), Ruin (External Pulling), and Cultivation (External Pushing). Endowment has no temporal feel to it. It is not about stasis or change in any way. Endowment is more like Ambition. One is about increasing others (external pushing) and the other is about increasing one's self (internal pushing). In order to have power in Endowment's magic system, you must have it given to you. You cannot just take it. It must be, in some way, willingly given. It must be Endowed. We do have word that all shards affect the entire cosmere, not just their planet, so there is something to this theory. I just don't think that Endowment belongs in a grouping with Ruin, Preservation and Cultivation, if there are indeed groupings at all.

Good thing Lopen grew back his missing arm. Otherwise he might lag behind...

Right, when he's fighting Marsh, he's being fueled by Vin, but in the cave, when he first downs the bead of Lerasium, vin gives him a Mistborn vial of metals to wash it down. He had plenty of pewter.

So...I said this, but people apparently ignore it. Vin gave him one of her Allomantic vials to wash the Lerasium bead down. Elend had a full dose of Pewter in his system when he became a Mistborn.