Tglassy

Every Ideal so far has been said in a moment of pure agony. Charging Parshendi, standing up against Moash, and now, after having, essentially, committed suicide. He hadn't hit the ground yet, but he'd jumped. He was fully ok with smacking head first into the ground, and would have if Dalinar hadn't intervened. Wouldn't it be interesting, then, if the fifth ideal was spoken in a moment of quiet peace. Like, he's working with people, helping them overcome their problems, and he just smiles and says the words. Boom. No big traumatic event. He just...says them, and moves on. Like the Lopen, saying the second ideal. He wasn't having a traumatic moment. He was comforting someone else, and just said it flippantly. It doesn't have to be traumatic. You just have to be at a place where you can say it, and mean it.

I don't know, I liked all the Stormlight Physics lessons in the book. I'm interested in how it all works, so having a lot of Navani stuff where she's learning all that was some of my favorite parts. I actually wound up liking Raboniel, or however you spell her name. I could just FEEL how tired she was when she killed her daughter, and was like "No more rebirths!" It really drove home how LONG this war has been going on. I was never a huge fan of Venli and Eshonai. I mean, I like them ok, and they do provide a good perspective, so they're certainly necessary, but I just never got the love. Though, I do feel for Eshonai, just wanting to go out and see the world but not being able to. I don't really understand what Timbre sees in Venli, but whatevs. And Kaladin...goodness, I feel him. I've struggled with Depression for a long, long time. It just hits me. And it feels exactly how it's described here. I go through Kaladin sections and I just FEEL it. I relate so hard. The crushing agony, which is eventually replaced with a profound numbness to everything and everyone. And how in that place, the dark thoughts come, making you believe it was ALWAYS dark. No one EVER cared. Goodness. He got that nailed right on the head. At first, I was horrified at Kaladin being relieved of duty, but it just makes sense for the character. And as I read, I began to get excited about the prospect. Because he was trying to help people who feel like me. I don't have battle shock, but Depression can make it feel like that, sometimes. I've posted this elsewhere, but I think that Windrunners can't get to the 4th ideal until they've left the battlefield. But that's another topic. Lift has grown on me. And finding out WHY she asked the Nightwatcher what she did hit me in the feels. It's the type of thing a kid worries about. Growing up. Becoming someone different. Before they realize that we all become different people throughout our lives, even throughout the same year. It's just part of who we are. As for Shallan...I actually enjoy much of her stuff. In the first book, her chapters were a nice change of pace, being less about epic battles and more about this girl getting in over her head. In the second book, she was learning to stand on her own two feet, and learning her powers. She provides a nice counterpoint to Kaladin, and has different issues, which help her feel real. In book three, she started the whole Persona thing, and I wasn't a huge fan, and now, in book 4, she's full blown psychotic, basically. Having listened to the books over again, there are definitely signs that Pattern wasn't the same cryptic she'd bonded the first time, and there were definitely clues that she'd killed her spren. But she did seem to have a breakdown in this one. I suppose that's needed, though, to progress to the next ideal, in any Order. You have to break more. Kal had to not only admit, but accept, that he couldn't save everyone, and Shallan had to finally admit the last secret she'd been refusing to acknowledge. The previous Ideals were all hard to admit, and each one required the soul to break a little further in order to get to a place where they COULD say those ideals. So it makes sense that the anti would be upped when going for this next one. And I love Wit. I just love him. And I absolutely love that he is bonded, permanently as far as we can see, to Design, a Spren who has absolutely no imagination and calls him out on all his dumb sh*t. He totally deserves that. Either way, I enjoyed the book. It was a needed addition. Much was explained, and the characters developed well.

Lol. There's infinite, and there's Infinite.

Yeah, she didn't create the void-light or Anti-voidlight. She took voidlight in a gemstone, put it at the end of a vacuum tube, allowed it to drift to the other side, where an empty gemstone waited, and played the Anti-voidlight tone, so the first thing it would hear upon entering the empty gemstone was the anti-voidlight tone. So, using this method, it is possible, maybe, she could change voidlight into Stormlight. Or into other kinds of investiture. But she didn't actually create the light itself. Just altered it.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The shards are infinite. The person holding them isn't, but the power is. Even Sazed says he is not infinite, though parts of him are, in Era 2. So...like, they all have infinite power...but the mind holding it can't contain all of it at the same time...or something. It's complicated. So when Preservation gave up part of himself, what he gave up was part of his consciousness. His mind. The Finite portion of his self. Pretty sure there are WoB's that talk about this.

It was likely a group discussion/decision between the Radiants and their Soren, all coming to the same conclusion due to information we just don’t have right now. We know the Spren chose to have the oaths broken, it wasn’t a betrayal. But SOMETHING was going on more than had been told. It could just be because Honor was going insane and told everyone they would eventually destroy Roshar, but I feel like we just don’t know the whole story. They were saving everyone from….something. We just don’t know what.

Hello, and welcome to the 17th Shard! I just listened to it, and I don't recall that being a part of the deal... He's already bonded to the Stormfather. He's already able to act in Honor's place. He holds authority over Odium's bonds. I don't see how his soul changing would have anything to do with that. I would disagree here, pretty hard. T doesn't have honor. He believes honor isn't for kings. Kings do what they have to. Kill everyone who needs killing. Lie to whoever you can. Backstab. Ruin. Destroy, and set yourself up as the savior afterwards so people will love you. That's not honor. He didn't tell Dalinar about Szeth because of a sense of honor, but becasue Szeth had sworn to obey Dalinar, and so Szeth would have just told him about T's subterfuge. So he went ahead and came clean, first. That's not Honor, that's more plotting and conniving. He didn't stay with Odium out of a sense of honor, but because he honestly believed he couldn't beat him. That's cowardice, not honor. Tanavast was the main god when they created the Knights Radiant. His definition of Honor is laid out in the Oaths they have to swear to gain power. Protecting others, being true to yourself, uniting instead of dividing, Journey before Destination. In fact, the entire point of "Life before Death" and "Journey before Destination" is that it is NEVER ok to sacrifice the few to save the many. An Good outcome cannot be attained if the means were evil. That's literally the whole point of the oaths. T sacrificed THE ENTIRE WORLD to save just one city, mostly because he believed he couldn't do more. But he most certainly WOULD sacrifice the few to save the many. He's done so many times, in his mind. That's why he never got a Radiant Spren. He could never say even the first Ideal of the Radiants. I'm pretty sure Windrunners are the closest to Honor, having bonded Honor Spren. Only one of the Three Bondsmiths bond something resembling Honor (Stormfather). The other two (Nightwatcher and the Sibling), aren't Honor, but something completely different, with their own versions of Stormlight, even. The Nightwatcher especially has absolutely no link to Honor. I don't know if I can get behind this one, either. Not only is "do morally questionable thing that have a good end goal" completely contrary to the First Ideal, the Bondsmith Second Ideal is "I will Unite instead of Divide". They're about bringing peoples together. Not "Doing whatever is needed to get a good end goal." Now, I think all Bondsmiths STARTED as people who did what was needed to get a good end goal. But as they progress, they become better people. That's the point of the oaths. To lead them to be better people. I think all the Radiant Orders' members start as something that their Order will help them work through. Windrunners are depressed, and so their Oaths make them focus on other people, and ultimately to help themselves grow beyond their depression. Lightweavers are liars to themselves and others, and need to learn to accept who they are. Bondsmiths, in my opinion, were utilitarian, and saw the results of such thinking, and thus their Oaths help them grow beyond that. Ishar isn't a Bondsmith. He's Ishar. His Honor Blade grants him the powers of a Bondsmith, but not their Oaths or Bonds. He isn't a good example. I don't think Sazed is any more powerful than any of the other shards. The Shards themselves are Infinite. Infinity times two is infinity. Though it would be interesting to see War vs Harmony. Rayse didn't want to be any different, he didn't want to take up any additional shards so he wouldn't change what he was, but T might be different. He might campaign to pick up other shards. It's an interesting theory, but there's a lot there that I don't think fits quite right.

I love Era 2. I wrote this in the other thread that was linked above, but I love the magic system, I love the interplay with magic and technology, I love the characters. Wax is my favorite Cosmere Protagonist, Wayne is my favorite side character and by the end I even like Steris. They should totally have Steris meet Jasnah. That would be delightful. Every time I go through the Cosmere books, which is at least once a year, I just can't wait to get to Mistborn Era 2.

Personally, I think Soulcasting DOES require certain gemstones. When Shallan soulcast the Goblet into blood, she'd had a Garnet with her. She didn't try to soulcast it into anything. She certainly wasn't thinking about Blood. But it said "I will change", and then turned into blood. Why? Because the only gemstone Shallan had at the time was a Garnet. Jasnah asked for a Garnet when soulcasting Shallan's blood. Maybe it's possible to just use whatever Stormlight you have, or to draw it into yourself first and then use it. But I think using the right FLAVOR of gemstone will just make it easier. Less resistance. So Jasnah wanted a Garnet, because she doesn't do Blood or organic things very well. She wanted the help. When Shallan tried to soulcast the Stick into Fire, I think she just didn't have the right gemstones, and not enough experience to get around that problem.

Considering Navani has found an easily replicable means of completely destroying investiture, I'd say she's already found something she shouldn't have. With this technology, you could, potentially, shatter shards. Or completely eliminate them, altogether. I wonder if this, or something similar, is the means by which Odium has been shattering shards? Or, at least, if this is the means by which he killed Dominion and Devotion. And now humans and Singers have access to the technology, willy nilly. Spren can be obliterated. Fused can be obliterated. No Shard can bring them back. This is Nuclear Bomb territory.

Vasher doesn't play fair. He rigs the game in every way he can. He's a Returned, which means, assuming he's not suppressing his Divine Breath, he's a lot stronger/faster/more durable than any mortal would be. He's also a master Awakener, and can become even stronger, and create numerous allies to help him in his fights. In the end, if he were losing, he'd just do what he did to Dent. He'd give them his excess breaths, and in the moment of pure ecstasy that followed, he'd slit their throat and hold on till stormlight (or whatever) ran out. Against a Radiant, he'd probably have a difficult time being affected by things like Lashings, because he is invested so much. By putting Breath in a sword (not awakening it, just putting breath into it), he can make something Shardblades would have a hard time breaking through. In fact, he could do the same with armor, creating a sort of Shard-Plate-Lite. If the Radiant doesn't have their own plate, then their own clothing becomes a weapon against them. Grab a shirt, tell it to bind things, and trap the radiant's arms to their body. A lot of his tricks would only give momentary advantages, but Vasher is also an expert swordsman and tactician. He'll know how to use those moments. Against a Mistborn, it's actually a little harder, I think, because of Steel Pushing. Though, if he gets ahold of their Mistcloak and tells it to Strangle Things, then the fight would be over. Mistborn die easier than Radiants do. Against a competent Radiant with Plate...yeah, I'm not sure if there's much that he could do other than try to survive. I'm not sure if there's anyone who could do much against a Radiant with both Plate and skill in combat. Certain Twinborn, with Compounding, maybe could. Depending on how Nicrosil/Chromium works, MAYBE a Mistborn would have a chance, if it could disrupt plate/Blade and eliminate the Stormlight, but I'm not sure if that's how that works. A Radiant with living Plate is a powerhouse.

If that's the case, then why do aerodynamic space shuttles create so much heat upon reentry? Isn't it friction that causes that, since the Aerodynamics of the shuttle allow the air to move around the shuttle easier, without getting 'trapped'?

I think Hoid knows exactly what happened. I think he keeps his Breaths right at the Heightening he needs to have Perfect Pitch, so if something like this happened, then he'd know, because his Perfect Pitch would be off. Odium, and especially Todium, wouldn't think about that. Todium thinks he's so clever, having taken Hoid's memories and then redid the conversation the way he thinks Hoid thinks it should have gone, but Hoid has a clue, and that clue is if ANY of his breaths go missing, he loses his Perfect Pitch.

Terminal Velocity: The maximum speed a given object will fall through the atmosphere. Gravity doesn't make you drop at the same speed. You're constantly speeding up, until you hit Maximum Velocity. So Windrunners, who can control gravity, can't really fly faster than Maximum Velocity. Multiple lashing MIGHT be able to overcome this, but eventually, they'd just ignite the atmosphere and burn themselves up. Like a a meteor. This is caused by friction with the air. I know Windrunners can somewhat, somehow, sculpt the air around them, but only so much. If they did it too much, to go at truly incredible speeds, they'd wind up in a vacuum. Eventually, the friction with the air around them would get to be too much. But Ededancers control Friction. In fact, when they use the Surge of Abrasion, Friction isn't a thing to them. At all. They pass through things as if they aren't touching them. Including air, or water. If a Windrunner and an Edgedancer, or one with an Honorblade granting either Gravitation or Abrasion, depending, were to go for a flight together? Abrasion on both of them, and a lashing to the sky. There'd be no wind resistance. There'd be no Terminal Velocity. Their speed would just keep increasing 32 ft/second squared. With enough Stormlight, there's literally no limit to the speed they could fly through atmosphere. Or through water. Since Wind Runners can keep air around them, they could fly up to space and, with enough Stormlight, alter the course of an asteroid to hit the planet. Only, it would go through the atomosphere like it wasn't there, slamming into the ground at insane speeds, as if the planet had no atmosphere. With just Abrasion, you could cover an arrow and never worry about Wind Resistance. Or take a rock, lash it in a particular direction, and cover it in Abrasion. Instant bullet, which, until it's stormlight ran out, would keep increasing in speed and never arch to the ground. It wouldn't change direction based on ANY outside forces. Take a Firearm, and make it Awesome. No wear and tear from the bullet leaving the gun, no wind resistance. The bullet would chew through your body with barely slowing down, because you technically can't touch it. Unless it hit something harder than itself, like a bone, it would just go straight through. Lash the bullet, and you have a sniper. Gravity and Abrasion. That's an insane combination.

Currently? Mistborn, Era 2. Particularly once Medallions become a thing.

Also, Hoid/Wit is in almost every book. In fact...I think he IS in every book...or at least, all the ones I listed. Only, in Elantris, Mistborn (eras 1 and 2), and Warbreaker, he has small parts, which are really only in one scene or so each. in some, if you blink, you'll miss it.

I go through the entire Cosmere at least once a year, and this is the order I go in: 1. Elantris (this was his first published book, and the first book in the Cosmere. A few easter eggs from this book pop up in just about everything else.) 2. Mistborn (All of them, 1 through 6. Finish 6, Bands of Mourning, before reading Secret History, because there are spoilers, but now I pause the first three books at certain places to read parts of Secret History, because they're happening in the background, but the first time, you'll not want to ruin those spoilers). 3. Warbreaker (I do love this book, and in reality, it really is basically a Prequel to Stormlight. Azure, Zahel and the talking Sword, Nightblood, are all main characters, and it explains the sword's origins, as well as exactly what Azure and Zahel are/can do. I always recommend reading this before Stormlight, but if you've already started Stormlight, then this will just explain a few things.) 4. Stormlight (obvs. Edgedancer is a novela set between books 2 and 3, and Dawnshard, which I haven't had a chance to read, is between book 3 and 4, I think. Useful background stuff.) 5. The rest of Arcana Unbounded. (This is a collection of Short Stories in the Cosmere. Secret History and Edgedancer are in here, but so are a lot of other smaller things. The origins of Mraise's green "Chicken", as well as many other worlds in the Cosmere that don't have their own books, are here.) 6. I don't put this in with the rest because I don't have it on Audible, but White Sand, the comics, are their own thing in the Cosmere. Apparently there's now an Audio drama version on Audible, but it's three parts and only 5 hours each, so I haven't spent the three credits I'd need to get them. I like to get the most bang for my buck with my Audible credits, and five hours just isn't much. White Sand takes place on a completely different world, and is the origin world of Kriss, who writes the "Ars Arcana" At the end of most books, as well as having a small cameo in Mistborn Era 2.) Skyward is good. I still need to read Cytonic, the third one. However, I highly recommend The Reckoners, which starts with the book Steelheart. Basically, it's what would happen if Superheroes became real...and they all turned out to be villains. Great series. Great, great series.

I just feel like the Oaths are meant to create fully self actualized individuals. You almost have to be broken in a certain way to attract the right kind of spren. But by the fifth ideal, you have dealt with your inner brokenness, your issues, You won't be perfect, but you've dealt with whatever broke you, and become something stronger. It seems like Bondsmiths are those who used to divide people, and now want to be better. Nowedon, Dalinar, and even Navani to a certain extent since she was the wife of a warmonger. All warred in their early lives, and wanted to bring people together later. Windrunners seem to struggle with depression and feeling like outsiders. Their salvation is focusing on others, protecting them, not focusing on themselves. That's what helps them move forward. Goodness knows when I'm going through a Depression Spell (which I do frequently), I'm my own worst enemy. All I want to do is sit and think about how miserable I am. It's hard to do that when you're busy focusing on helping others. Lightweavers are lying to themselves, trying to be what they aren't. They have to accept who they are, forgive themselves for what they have done, and deal with their insecurities. Only then can they rise. Stormbreakers seem to have extreme doubt in their own judgement. They don't trust themselves to know what is right or what is wrong. Likely, because they have made horrible, horrible mistakes in those areas in their past, and want something better for themselves and others. So they follow strict codes. "I will seek Justice" or "I will put the Law before all else" frees them from having to make decisions, because the Law will determine what those decisions should be. That sounds like a weak excuse to not be responsible for your actions, but for someone who doesn't trust their own judgement, that is a great relief. The Third Ideal, where they swear a specific code to follow, further narrows that path, restricting them, but provides more freedom, because they can choose something they greatly believe in, and just follow it. The Crusade is different, I think, from the other oaths, because you have to DO something to attain it. It isn't just working through an inner issue, but I think you have to have worked through your issues in order to attain that goal. The last Ideal, "I am Law", is, ultimately, a reversal of all of that. In the beginning, you didn't trust yourself. You had to dedicate yourself to something else because your judgement was flawed. By the time you get to the fifth ideal, that's all changed. You DO trust yourself, now. You understand you DO know the right thing to do. And so you are freed from those restrictions...but not because you don't have to follow them, but because you no longer need outside oaths to do so.

The "Easier way", I assume, would be Medallions. Does compounding work with Medallions? I'd assume so. But yeah, give Lift A and F Bendalloy Medallions, and then she has infinite food and Lifelight. No need to eat anymore. Infinite Healing and Awesomeness. Infinite growth of food in Uruthiru. Completely off topic, why has nobody told the Radiants in the Tower that the Surge of Regrowth is also the Surge of Growth? I mean, the moment they started talking about it in Oathbreaker, about how there were fields but they were too small and nothing would grow, it was obvious to me that Truthwatchers and Edgedancers tended the gardens. They could grow entire fields in a few minutes.

In Stormlight, the Winds and Storms are closely connected to Honor, for whatever reason. In fact, in Oathbreaker, Shallan sees a 'common depiction of the Almighty" which turns out to be a Stormcloud with lightning, or something like that. I think Brandon was doing the whole "God of the Sky and Godess of the Earth" thing from Greek Mythology when he developed these. That's why Honor Spren are like Wind Spren, and the Remnant of Honor is the Stormfather.

The third ideal is covered by the second. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" does not give qualifiers. It includes people you hate, people you disagree with, etc. And yet the third ideal is "I will protect even those I hate." That's already covered, but it's still an ideal. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves." That's so BROAD. Even Kaladin is daunted by the implications of that Oath. The Third Ideal is even worse, because it means you can't just pick and choose who you are going to protect. You are to protect EVERYONE who cannot protect themselves. As Kaladin shows, that weighs on a person. But at the fourth ideal...you get a release. All that pent up frustration about those you couldn't protect, you have to let it go. Forgive yourself. Move on. Look to those you CAN protect. Here's something I hadn't caught before. I'm going through RoW now, and when Vyre is talking to Odium, Odium says "Kaladin has removed himself from the battlefield. This was unexpected, and could make him even more of a problem". I'm starting to wonder if that's part of being a Windrunner. Like...they aren't supposed to be soldiers. The second ideal makes it seem so much like they are Soldiers. The Windrunner who gave the quote from the gemstone said "Aren't I supposed to want to help people?" It just hit me a few minutes ago...I think the Fourth Ideal is when Windrunners stop being soldiers. I think at the fourth ideal, they retire and go off to help in other ways. I don't know that they ALL have a mental breakdown, but judging of how most Radiants are, it's possible they do. The fifth ideal being "I will allow those who can to protect themselves" would free the Radiant up more. No longer would Kaladin feel like he has to go with his men. He wouldn't feel guilty that he can't be with them, to protect them. Because they can protect themselves. It would also mean you don't have to join a battlefield anymore. Soldiers can protect themselves. Who can't protect themselves? The normal people. That's why Syl's first Knight would visit villages. That's why the radiant from the gemstone was afraid of taking the Fourth ideal. He didn't understand how you can protect without fighting. But that's what the fourth ideal is about. You stop being a soldier, and start focusing on those who cannot protect themselves. You CAN fight, of course. You get your plate, after all. But fighting is always the last resort. You only do it when no other options are available. And then you END the fight, because you're a freaking Knight Radiant with living Plate and Blade. I can also see "I will protect myself first, and allow those who can to protect themselves" as a good option, as well.

Ok. I was thinking about this today. First off, can we all just admit to how amazing being a Subsumer would be? Feruchemical Bendalloy can allow you to eat as much as you want while storing, never feeling full. All the excess nourishment is stored in the Bendalloymind, which you can later tap so you don't have to eat as much. Talk about the ultimate diet tool. Just always store what you eat. Every time. And then only let the exact amount of energy come out as you need during the day. Never have to worry about overeating on your diet again. You just always have the aprox. 2,000 calories a day. Now, at the moment, I'm goin back through the Stormlight books for the fifth time (Rhythms of War for the second time), and as always, I'm considering different combinations of Radiant with Mistborn powers, and something struck me: Lift can metabolize food into Stormlight. LIFT CAN METABOLIZE FOOD INTO STORMLIGHT. Not only does that mean she can go anywhere in the freaking cosmere and get stormlight (assuming she could travel to other worlds, being so invested), but if she managed to get ahold of the abilities of a Bendalloy Ferring, such as from a Medallion, then she could, essentially, store Stormlight itself in the Bendalloymind. That is insane. A Bendalloy metalmind, in this case, isn't just storing energy, it's storing something she can convert into Stormlight. No need to have Stormlight at all. Just need food. Be a Bendalloy/Bendalloy Twinborn and be like Lift and you can compound the energy from one meal into ten, a hundred, a thousand, real, real quick. Infinite Stormlight, and never need to eat/drink again (if you have two metalminds). Just thought I'd share.

The Medalion is technically just an Unkeyed Nicrosilmind. It grants anyone who touches it the ability to use F-Iron. Thinking about it, this is a good point. In order to make an unkeyed metalmind, you have to store your identity before putting your investiture into the nicrosilmind. So, someone makes a Nicrosilmind that allows you to have the power to tap and store Identity. Then they make one that allows you to tap and store Investiture (making your own nicrosilminds). Wear both of those, and anyone can store identity and investiture. So an Iron Ferring stores their Identity somewhere, and at the same time, stores their Investiture into a Medalion. Thus, creating a Medalion that anyone can tap, thus gaining F-Iron. The Medallion itself would have a strip of Iron, but Wax even points out that the strip of iron is unnecessary. It's just for convenience. That does beg the question, though. You aren't stripping your OWN identity when you store Weight using an Iron Medallion. But, from the way Brass Medallions work, and the Copper Medallion we've seen, you can access other people's attributes when you use them. That leads me to believe that this is because the power isn't yours. It is the Medallion's. The Attribute is being stored as Investiture, but the Investiture Metalmind, the Nicrosilmind, has no Identity, and therefore the Attribute you are storing has no Identity. That would mean every metalmind that is created using a Medallion is then an Unkeyed Metalmind, and anyone who has access to that kind of Feruchemy would be able to use it, because none of the attributes you store would have any identity. That has some serious potential in the Economics of the World. Being able to store up and sell full metalminds would be insane. Or selling your own attributes. The medical profession alone would be wiped out real quick. Just give a Hospital a bunch of Gold Medallions, and pay people to store up healing in a bunch of Gold Metalminds. Anytime someone gets sick, just put on this ring and you'll be better real quick.

Kaladin has made mistakes throughout the books. He was on his way to being a Mary Sue in the first chapter, and then failed to protect everyone for months. He got people killed over and over. He was a slave. Nobody would listen to him. Nobody cared about him. He had to overcome his own inner depression in order to be the character he became. He had to WORK. That's not a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue wouldn't have had to struggle. Kaladin has one big talent: his fighting ability. He's not a surgeon, just apprenticed, and so would not make much more than a field medic. Sure, that's more than most people, but hardly Mary Sue level. A Mary Sue would have reinvented surgery and not only been the greatest fighter who ever lived, but also the greatest surgeon, managing open heart bypass surgery while on the battlefield defending against the army by himself. Having a great talent doesn't make a character a Mary Sue. Having EVERY talent and also having the moral high ground against everybody and having every advantage (beauty, brains, grace, poise, etc) while having no flaws other than being hated for being better than everyone else is what makes them a Mary Sue. And Jasnah fits that to a T. Shallan is far from perfect in any capacity. She fails left and right. In the beginning, she barely succeeded at anything. She was dismissed by important people, but in reality wouldn't have been able to add anything even if she wasn't. She got training from talented people, and used the advice to make herself better, but she screwed up more often than not and actually had to work for her accomplishments. Jasnah, on the other hand, was "correcting Nevani's grammer at the age of 6". She is never wrong, about anything. She is right about the Almigjhty, right about Urithiru, right about the Parshmen, right about the Oathgates, right about...well, just about everything. And the entire scholarly community across Roshar thought each of those was ridiculous, and persecuted her for it. If everyone would have JUST listened to her from the beginning, the entire would would be a better place. Slaves would be freed, the parshmen would be dealt with (possibly dead) and so there would be no Desolation, everything would be perfect. The main difference between a Mary Sue and a non Mary Sue, I think, is whether or not the character actually struggles to succeed, and not just against those who don't like them. But actually struggle, fail, and rise again to overcome their limitations. Mary Sue's don't do that. They're just right, about everything, all the time. They don't have to work hard. Everything in life comes naturally. They don't make mistakes. They are always proven correct. They always have the moral high ground. On the surface, the end result off many protagonists look like Mary Sue's. They're powerful, dominating, and often in the right. But that's after a long career being wrong "An appropriate amount of time", which Jasnah is not, according to her mother.

I'm going through the books again, for the fifth time, and I just want to say that I actually like Elhokar. in WoK, he was annoying. By the end of WoR, he'd grown on me. And I know that's how it's supposed to be. But in Oathbreaker, he's accepted the fact that he is not a good king, but he's stopped whining about it. He's decided he's going to learn what he needs to. You can't be better until you accept that you're not perfect to begin with. And that's when he started acting like a King, at least to me. He could have had such an interesting arch, becoming the King he always wanted to be. I just feel so bad for him when he dies, right on the cusp of becoming Radiant. Not gonna lie, I'd love to have seen him deal with being a Radiant. It would have made for a good story, I think. Just thought I'd share.