marianmi

Spoilers below.

About the "having to grow into the second attribute", I believe I am one of the first proponents. "Having to grow" means more like gaining a true understanding, and thus a level of acceptance, than developing it. Kaladin: has shown his desire to protect in numerous occasions, with Tien and in the army. He's also a good leader, his squad being one of the best. In fact, he was displaying these attributes in Amaram's army when he attracted Syl, but she did not truly gain consciousness until later, when Kaladin was doing anything but leading and protecting. When Syl first started talking to Kaladin, she asked him why was he giving up (on protecting/leading). Only when Kaladin accepted the fact that protecting/leading is not about saving his soldier's life, and that sacrifice is acceptable for a greater good - gaining a much higher level view of what protecting means - he was able to understand the second ideal, and the words came to him. Similarly Shallan struggles with the truth. This is not actually about her lies to Jasnah, those are more to set the scene. Only when she admits and accepts the fact that she killed her father, she is able to create the bond and start soulcasting. Remember that she could see multiple symbolheads, but when soulcasting she was talking to only one of them, i.e. the one that she bonded with (as a side note, I wonder if the "truth" she told was required to create the bond, or is something required each time she soulcasts.) So Shallan's issue was not that she was not telling the truth, but more that she was not facing the truth. I am very excited about WoR and hope to see a confident Shallan, very much changed from the first book. With this said, I see nothing about Just/Confident as primary attributes for Kaladin. Yes, he was not confident at times, but this was a direct result of his issues with protecting and leading. And his sense of justice is skewed by his interactions with the lighteyes. You can find most of the divine attributes in all proto-Radiants, that's why for example there are multiple threads about Dalinar's order - he is just, confident, protecting, leading, and several others... There are maybe 4 orders he could be in. But I think if you squint, you see that their primary attributes are highly tied to the issues that each are dealing with. And Kaladin's theme was: "can you protect by killing?"

Thunderclasts also emerge from stone - probably from a corrupted (emotion) spren. Edit: emotion being hate/odium?

Hm, you think that is something that can be bought off few spheres? It's more likely something to be taken advantage of actively.

Let's also remember that Syl was attracted by Protecting/Leading, not by Protecting/Leading/Just/Confident. And the attributes are those that attract a spren. And there is 1:1 between spren and order. => there is 1:1 divine attributes to order.

(1) In this case there is no immortality - shards are not immortal, since they can be splintered, shardholders are not immortal, since they can be killed. Instead of reserving the word for a concept that does not exist/will not exist/it's impossible, let's use it for something that exists - which is something like "capable of living forever". Heck, even the "deathless" can die in Brandon's work Such as kandra would live forever if not bathed in acid, shardholders would live forever if not killed by other shards, and heralds would live forever, if not [... this thing that we will probably see in SA book x]. (3) yes, well, some things should surprise everyone, right? We all love a plot twist. (4) Per WoB, there are 4 shards in the Roshar greater system: H + C on Roshar, Odium on another planet, and a fourth shard on yet another planet. There has been talk about why the 4 orders in the corner of the radiant map have one extra connection, and my theory is that those orders use a spren that is full splinter of a shard, e.g. windrunners spren is 100% honorspren, edgedancer spren (wyndle) is 100% cultivation, shallan's cryptic is 100% maybe adonalsium, leaving the great unknown for the stonewardens.

Or give him new ideas.

I think they would reappear in both cases, because they are part of his cognitive aspect right now.

Yes, he seemed ... surprised

Minor shards would need both human intellligence + shard power. Instead of that, we have splinters, which is shard power that achieved intelligence. My theory is that, with less power, you have less intent. E.g. shard Honour cannot be w/o Tanavast, since it's driven by its intent so much it's basically dumb. On the other hand, honorspren are not driven by honour as much, so they can be more intelligent. Note also that splinters are attracted by attributes that align to the shard's intent, as opposed to shards which are all intent, not attracted by anything. PS: you can argue that returned are minor shards, but then again it's not a human that has Divine Breath, but a creation of Endowment from a dead person.

Maybe the KR by severing their bonds thought they would end the desolations, too? Maybe Darkness convinced them to do it... PS: An upvote for hoser for using "Mr T"

No, they were more like random thoughts I just wrote w/o thinking much... But who know, maybe someone might find somewhat useful there

Yes I upvoted the original comment.

Gloom, I think Renarin's blood weakness and Kaladin's brands are already in the cognitive, so only something like Resealing or Divine Breath would work on them.

I mostly agree with Kurkistan on several points. * Intents do deal with the acquisition of investiture that allows you to tap the magic from the spiritual realm. E.g. if you do this thing (where "thing" is based on the intent of the shard), the shard will give you a battery. It's up to you what you power the battery with. Nobody stopped the steel inquisitors (when not controlled by ruin) to be nice guys. * Healing works in a similar way across Brandon's works. We have identified the aPewer and Feruchemical gold. I would like to add some things which I believe will shed some new light. * Allomantic pewter, stormlight infusion healing: accelerates natural healing. You lose an arm, you get a stump. I think this is clear. * Feruchemical gold: restores you to your cognitive aspect. You lose an arm, it grows back. I think this is also clear. Now, healing on Sel we've seen works a little different, and not quite fits here. But I think it does: a. Some type of AonDor: restores you to your cognitive aspect. However, it's a different process here than the Feruchemical gold, one of the reasons being that with Feruchemical gold you heal yourself, while with AonDor we've seen an elantrian healing others. So how about if the elantrian does not know the cognitive aspect of the person being healed, and the aon equations are used to tap and focus to discover the cognitive aspect of the person being healed? b. Simple Aons for healing: they do not access the cognitive realm, and just accelerate natural healing, like Allomantic pewter c. Resealing: The difference here is that your cognitive aspect is being changed, while in Feruchemical gold you don't change the cognitive aspect but align the physical one to the cognitive one. d. Divine Breath: similar to resealing, you change the cognitive aspect. So I will then take one step further and say there are 3 categories, in ascendent order of power: 1) physical-only: accelerate natural healing (Allomantic pewter, stormlight infusion, simple AonDor) 2) physical+cognitive: change physical to match cognitive (Feruchemical gold, complex AonDor to access cognitive realm) 3) cognitive+physical: change cognitive, then change physical to match the new cognitive (Divine Breath, Resealing) Hope this clears things out! Now, about shardblades, there might be 2 things that are happening: i) the cut is on the spiritual level, and thus neither healing method will work, ii) the cut is on the cognitive level, and only method 3) will work. Nevertheless, I would say that currently we are not aware of any magic in Roshar that would heal a shardblade cut.

Well, Honor could have turned them immortal, like TLR made the kandra immortal. The Damnation torture is part of the Oathpact. Most of us assumed that the Oathpact was created to stop Honour and Odium fighting, or something like this. But what if that's not true? TIME FOR A CRAZY THEORY! What if the Oathpact was actually an alliance made between Honour and Odium? To fight together against the voidbringers? Where fight together = they will both invest in Roshar into objects of power. Like Odium would create the shardblades, and Honour would create the plates. Then somehow Honour grew weaker (maybe because of the KR) and Odium took advantage and killed him. That's why then Syl (Honour) now hates blades (Odium). TIME FOR ANOTHER CRAZY THEORY The Oathpact was made between Honour, Cultivation, Odium and the other shard in the system, and basically determined that each shard would stick to their own planets and not interfere on another planet. Cultivation made Roshar from a barren land (like the other planets) into ... well, that it is today), and Honour created humans... Again, the voidbringers are not aligned with shards.

In the Jasnah prologue, there is some guy that seems to talk like a Herald, and seems to look like Darkness. Talking with some other guy that seems to be a Herald too, that some bloke has their lord's (Jezrien's) own blade.

PM = like Prime Minister, just sounds weird with Prime in it lidat = http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lidat

This made me smile. All that gold, and still have tats. Darn.

My question stands: If more than half of Endowment is in Returned, would getting the Divine Breath of all Return make you Endowment?

@Feather: * “Next time, you shouldn’t let me win.” http://featherwriter.tumblr.com/post/41129552657/a-training-session-stormlight-archive-fanfic * "She and Renarin seemed to be spending quite a lot of time together recently." LOL EDIT: maybe we should make a thread for discussing these

I think Kaladin would be a much much better mediator than Shen. Nevertheless, I think neither Dalinar or Kaladin need a mediator if meeting Eshonai (possibly his sister too, but Jasnah and Navani would be way more excited in meeting her). Eshonai has experience with humans, Dalinar has honour, and Kaladin respects parshendi, and we've seen how quick was to understand Shen's behaviour.

Given that Syl was getting the dumb when Kaladin was thinking of killing himself, and Kaladin's powers increased when behaving more like the ideals that attracted Syl, I think the Nahel bond is something that evolves based on continuous behaviour. I think that the only way to sever the bond is to act in a way that is exactly the opposite of the ideals. This leaves me to believe that either: * the KR just dropped their shards, and did not actually sever their Nahel bonds * the KR severed their bonds by doing something that is very much against their ideals... leading/protecting and dependable/resourceful for windrunners and stonewardens at the feverstone keep. This might be why these 2 orders dropped their shards - e.g. windrunners stopped leading (by leaving the battle) and stopped protecting -- by facilitating a massacre when the fighting over the shards broke. The other orders had to sever their bonds in a different way - e.g. taking instead of giving, destroying instead of building, killing instead of healing, etc... Maybe this is why there are so many things lost from the Radiants time.

What I'm saying is that Shen would not necessary know how Parshendi would interpret a human reaction, or if a Parshendi gesture was meant to be offensive or just looked offensive. Except the reverence for corpses, which Winrunner was quick to point out, I can't see that many cultural similarities between Parshendi and Parshmen, at least not something that would be explained by Shen as a mediator. They have no song, and I am not sure that Parshendi would even accept a Parshman "mediator". He does not need to explain that Parshendi rever their corpses, since every human is aware of the Parshmen doing that. So the "similarities" would be known to humans, being accustomed to Parshmen, but the differences would not be known by Parshmen and thus they could not explain them to humans. Or, even of they would be aware of some things that humans are not, as I am sure they are, they have kept them secret from humans for thousands of years, no matter how many Parshmen have died for these "misunderstandings" - and thus unlikely to discuss them now, no matter how many Parshendi would die. As a whole, their race would survive, as they had until now, as Parshmen. With their secrets.

Yes - that's why I said it does not look like pewter. But this does not mean it's gold.