marianmi

Thanks, Kurkistan.

1. Dor is the power source on Sel. 2. You can access Dor through Devotion or Dominion, if you are Devoted (you get your sDNA modified in the Shaod) or if you Dominate (you get your sDNA modified through whatever they do in Dhakhor), 3. Probably, you cannot access Dor in Roshar (through "conventional" ways). 4. Roshar has it's own Dor, let's call it Storm. 5. You can access Storm though Honor, Cultivation, Odium, by having your sDNA altered by a bond with a spren that is attracted by your actions which correspond more or less to a shard's intent (let's assume for now it's the same for Odium, if you are a hateful guy then you get to bond an Odium spren). 6. Surgebinding uses stormlight, which is not the body of Honor/Cultivation/enter your shard here, but it's Storm. (Of course, stormlight might be gasous super-fuel and not "normal" fuel, i.e. is Honor's body... but it's very unlikely, because then only honorable surgebinders would have used stormlight when Tanavast was alive, which means that that surgebinder Nohadon mentioned destroyed lots of stuff was not using stormlight, which I find not probable. So let's go with stormlight = Storm) 7. Probably, you can't access Storm while on Sel (through "conventional" ways). 8. Hoid knows how to bypass the shards in getting access to the power. He would not need to go through the Shaod to access the Dor, or have a bounded spren to get access to the Storm. 9. "they use the power of Preservation/Ruin" looks even more wrong now - did Hoid use the power of Honor when he did lightweaving on Roshar? Or of Odium? Or of some shard on another planet? I would think not. 10. Going back to 5: (let's assume for now it's the same for Odium, if you are a hateful guy then you get to bond an Odium spren) -- is Gaz now bounded to an Odiumspren? He kind of hated everyone. CONCLUSION: allomancers don't use the power of preservation, preservation is not "fuelling" them, as in it's not the power they are using when doing magic. This is why you can use allomancy in a non-preservation way. Because the shard and it's intent is granting you access to power, not power. EDIT: 1,2 is WoB, 3->10 are meant to be seen as (more or less logical) deductions in progressive order. EDIT2: Is Hoid nothing more than a really smart & knowledgeable Forger? Stamping himself on each planet with the sDNA required to access magics?

Allomancy does not use condensed "essence" of the shard's body -- except Vin does that with the mists. The mists are "super-fuel", but the "normal fuel" is not the shard. When a person is burning metals they are not using Preservation's body as a fuel - they are tapping into the powers of creation. Quotes from the link you gave me that show that they are not "fueled" by shards. Shards provide a way to "get" to the fuel, which is unique to the planet, the planet's "spiritual power" like it's the Dor on Sel. The same Dor is accessed through Dominion or Devotion, Elantrians don't use Devotion's power, they use the Dor. Thus, Shards mostly modify the sDNA of people to allow then access to the powers of creation. It was my impression that the "powers of creation" that fuel the magic is bound to the planet they are on. That's how I understand it from the start. The planet is the one that determines this, although a Shard can subtly change it (like Szaed cannot get rid of allomancy and replace it with Awakening, but he can subtly change it - he did that, actually)

Is this Confirmed?

Another one here with a first edition... Bought in 2013.

I don;t think there is anything special about the Scadrial metals. Any metal, even from Roshar, would work. We've seen, however, a spatial relationship - e.g. if you are further from Elantris, the Aons are not as powerful. So I wonder if allomancy would work on another planet than Scadrial. After all, the metal is a key to access the spiritual power of Scadrial. Maybe, if you somehow make a connection through Shadesmar....

1) Wyndle talks that The Ring has done something to protect his memories when coming to the physical realm. This was either not the case for Syl - so she lost her memories in the transition - or she has been stuck here with memory lost from the recreance. 2) From all the tidbits, it looks like there are spren from Honor (like Syl), spren from Cultivation (probably like Wyndle), spren from Adonalsium (per WoB) - we don't know if they can bond, but probably they do (my theory is that they are the cryptics), and mixed spren ("there has been dissension among them about who gets to call themselves honorspren" I take it as there are multiple types of spren calling themselves honospren, not just Syl-like spren). However, I think it's certain that Syl (and Windrunners spren in general) are 100% Honor, and "most discerning" of all spren - probably because they are attracted to the "protecting/leading" combo attributes, and it's hard to be a protective evil leader

SPOILER:

I thought that he was referring both to the fact that surgebinders organized themselves in KR, and that KR had greater power than surgebinders. I know second one should be known by a shard, but if that was true then maybe the Almighty have had a hand in creating KR before Nohadon. Hence, the surprise: KR had greater power than surgebinders.

1) yes, what I meant was the honorspren that were in physical realm - they would have been stuck and lost in physical. 2) about Wyndle, while not Confirmed by WoB, there are many strong signs that he's 100% cultivation, like hoser said above. Thanks @WeiryWriter for the link.

Wyndle is cultivationspren. The Ring follows Cultivation, after a fashion. Syl is honorspren. Honor is shattered. 1) It's possible that, when Honor was shattered, honorspren became "lost" in the physical. 2) It's possible that, at the day of recreance, the spren of the KR that severed their bonds remained in the physical, and with no connection, lost themselves in the physical (Syl implies that she gets consciousness through the Nahel bond). 3) It's equally possible that Syl came from the cognitive for Kaladin (the spren of the KR died at the recreance), and she lost her consciousness on the way, w/o the Ring's protection. I think these 3 are the best candidates. Out of them, I find 1) or 2) most likely. Also, Nohadon's comment that "not all spren are as discerning as honorspren" may have been made before The Ring was created. Given that cultivation spren are not "as discerning" when choosing a person to bond with, maybe during the KR times, the KR gave them the idea to form The Ring. Instead of the cultivation spren choosing a person by themselves to bond with, The Ring will do that instread, with cultivationspren members voting on it. Thus, you have a lower possibility of a cultivationspren bonding someone "not worthy". So The Ring may not have existed at the time of Nohadon's vision. EDIT: It's implied that the KR were a surprise even for The Almighty. Also, what's different about the KR, is that they are more powerful than the surgebinders because of their .. character. Actually, I would say because of their actions, but they act that way because of their character. So maybe at the founding of the KR Nohadon put in place a system that would guarantee that only "worthy" people are chosen for Nahel bonds. Obviously, this requires "cooperation" and "organization" from sprens as well. Hence, The Ring - for cultivationspren. Honorspren don't need this, since they are "discerning" - or rather, they are already attracted by attributes that an "unworthy" person will never exhibit. This leaves us with the cryptics. Maybe they have a similar system as The Ring - maybe that's why Shallan saw multiple cryptics - they were the equivalent of The Ring, "assesing" her. After she passed, she could make a bond with one.

Thank god you did not propose to call it the "Awesomess"

No, it's just something I came up with. Spanreeds work by dividing a ruby in 2 parts, rubies are associated with Dustbringers, which have the Division surge. Seems to much of a coincidence.

I think the Thrill is completely from Odium. Dalinar in the latest battles, when not feeling the Thrill, fights with an awareness, a kind of "peace". The same for Kaladin. These 2 are completely opposite: the Thrill allows you to be impetuous, take charge, get lost in power - ultimately lose control, and become a killing machine. The "awareness" allows you to be 100% in control, and provides you calm in the midst of battle.

Nohadon is ... interesting. Clearly, he was a man of great honor. And he did extraordinary things. Now, because of this, it looks impossible to me not to have attracted a spren. Another interesting thing, that might be worth asking Brandon: who or what was Nahel? Where does the word comes from?

It uses a spren. That's cognitive. Edit: also, it uses the Surge of Division, which may or may not make use of Shadesmar.

His blade's ideals would be close to "Protecting/Leading" ... how would these intents influence him to stubbornly follow charges to kill people?

I understood you perfectly. But I believe magic works in a similar way. It does not matter if it's "old type" or "new type", there should be similar rules, and similar ingredients. I have a theory for example that in "old" fabrials, the KR's spren were "voluntarily" a part of. E.g. an elsecaller might not go into a fight, but his spren might go into a soulcaster, and a windrunner could take that soulcaster and use it. Or the plate is like a fabrial, with the KR's spren "inhabiting" it while fighting, and the etched glyphs on it act like the wireframe in soulcasters. The idea here is that even old fabrials made use of a spren. On the other hand, I totally get your argument about gemstones being replaced regularly. I have a feeling soulcasters are now very similar to plates... and maybe something similar that prevent plates from glowing is what causes soulcasters not to soulcast everything?

It's a point of contention. How could he have shown Dalinar the Recreance vision if he was already dead?

Maybe the truth is used by the cryptics in a way as absurd as Wyndle gardening...

If I were to guess, I would say the Oathpact is still in effect - with of without Tanavast. And the Herald's abandonment was not what got Honor shattered, but tangentially it was - so they basically weakened Honor, so then after the day of recereance it was possible to splinter him.

I don't think you can do magic with just gemstone + stormlight...

While I agree Vev is in Kharbranth, possibly in the hospital, I do not think the Heralds swear the oaths, or are bound by them. They existed before the KR and before the ideals. I think that that's how they were, i.e. exhibit those attributes (e.g. protecting/leading).

When the Windrunners severed their bonds in the day of recreance, (some of) their spren probably started to float on the winds... Now, what if (some of) the Lightweavers and Elsecallers spren were trapped in some of the soulcasting fabrials, at the day of recreance? I would guess that if they can soulcast everything or just one thing would depend on the type and cut of gem they are trapped in, and the metal frame...

I don't think it's worse than any other theory we've seen. I like it, and upvoted it.