Odium's_Shard

I'm going to take the aluminium-foil-hats thing as a Futurama reference. If you don't get it, fine. But I thought it was funny just picturing the boy with the orange hair in a foil hat.

This... is a good point. How can they so care for their own dead, and yet be so heartless to those who cannot protect themselves. It is very un-KR. After all, Kaladin's Oath was 'I will protect those who cannot protect themselves.'. And yet somehow, I get the sad feeling that this includes the Parshendi. Perhaps he will eventually (with Dalinar) get to their fortress in the middle of the Shattered Plains, and realise what they really are, then ally with them, or save them from the Alethi forces, and then help them to defeat Odium. But as we've seen in other Brandon works (like Mistborn), the enemies, like Ruin, aren't so clearcut. After all, Ruin had as much as purpose as Preservation, and some ways it was Prservation who was the 'bad' one, in so cheating on his arrangement with Ruin.

I never noticed this voice. Very possible indeed, it talks about on of the ideals of the Radiants (life before death). Also, I like to collect scraps of evidence to add to the 'Blades are tainted' discussions. This one (once these weapons meant protecting) is very strongly in favour. The spren, lets say, seems to signify that in the past they weren't tainted, and were used for protection, however now they aren't. Particularly significant in one of his 'anti-Thrill' moments. Perhaps this is the spren trying to convert him back to his 'path'? So he's started the bond, but the spren hates these sections of battle (anti-building). Towards the end of the book, Dalinar seems much less inclined to start battling things, and regains his confidence (Resolution). Very clear link to Order 8. Great catch, as per usual, Windrunner! +1!

The augmentations are interesting. What sort of use could the Gems possibly have in influencing this? Soulcasting new human lifeforms? That sort of understanding of Soulcasting would be like modern day scientists on Earth understanding how to create 'life'. It would be incredible, with that as perhaps understatement. Perhaps the 'armour' stage is a segment of their lifecycle? Brandon mentioned on his Writing Excuses that he likes to factor in elements of 'lifestages'. Perhaps the Parshendi have a 'warrior' lifestage, in which armour grows from their very body, in a similar way that the chasmfiend 'pupate' to create a large, hard shell. I am scientifically able enough to understand that those two processes are separate, but perhaps Parshendi form pupae? They all seem to have reached maturity by the point they are warriors, and all have a 'partner', so maybe the forming of armour is part of their mating cycle? When they mate, they form armour and become warrior mates. They then fight and die, leaving a new generation of Parshendi. Perhaps, then, the reason there are gems in their beard is part of the cycle (they emerge from the pupae with them) or are shattered from the strange, property-defying (?) gemhearts the Parshendi retrieve and threaded into their beards to mark them as 'warriors' (if the armour didn't do it?). Or perhaps there is a more base reason for the gems in the beards (which seem to be Stormlight infused, hence Kaladin's inhalation of their energies). Maybe they act like the gems in Shardplate: they fuel the weird adaptations? However, we didn't see any defunct behavior in any of the individuals whose beard-Stormlight Kaladin stole. There might be a very interesting reason behind all of this indeed- and I hope their is. Brandon has a habit of delivering with these sorts of things.

To Telcontar: about who I was arguing to... who knows? Maybe you (even though we were in agreement?), maybe myself, maybe the Cosmere... I just wanted to get that straight. But those jokes really are cracking. Maybe I could assist in these spren-related ones. [Jasnah] Shallan, how do you feel? [shallan] I understand symbolspren now. (takes emerald sphere out of pocket in anticipation) (nothing happens) [shallan] That spren is an idiot! (still nothing) [Jasnah] Don't worry, Shallan, all of us experience trouble telling the truth sometimes. [shallan] Me too. By the way, I stole your Soulcaster before you told me all this about spren. [spren] This is true. (Shallan smiles, Jasnah lunges at her but Shallan dissapears). End almost uncomically long sketch.

I have a feeling that this offers good points as to why Shardblades could be tainted (or perhaps why Shardplate is?). It seems impossible using these rules to produce new suits. Perhaps these rules were put into existence by Honour before he died, or when the Heralds 'gave up'? This would stop the KR going rampant with numbers, but also (if they foresaw the Recreance), means that no one nation can consolidate monumental power of the Shards through just one Shardplate even if most of the pieces eventually drifted to the highest reaches). After all, all of the suits must have been made at some point in order for there to be so many, so it makes me think there was originally a way to produce more.

My personal favorite I saw somebody suggest was Ecstasy. Now, those are the sorts of magics I would like to see! However, I'm not sure whether Brandon Sanderson supports recreational drug use in his 'scientifically founded' books... However, Commander Spoonface's suggestion of Agony as a pair to it made it seem more realistic... a system that acts like a painkiller/guilty pleasure, and a system that tortures, and a balance that heals? Almost like a Feruchemical store for Feelings! Spend a time in Agony so that you can engage in pure Bliss later. But the balance seems... vague.

Ok, I've been away for a little while, but I have returned to find this rather avid debate taking shape. Let me just interject for a moment with a theory of my own, which should help straighten the lines of the arguments. Firstly, my ideas about the entire 'Gem determines Effect' theory Telcontar and Goradel's Nephew were running, before Reader's helpful (though dampening, but still, thanks) interjection. As Reader pointed out, it doesn't seem to matter what Gem you use so long as it is filled with Stormlight. This leads me to believe that Brandon, when making Shallan use a Garnet to produce Blood, may just be setting up false 'Chekhov's guns'. It has been known. Look up the definition if you aren't familiar with the technique (which as a writer, I am, and take for granted that other people should...). But onto my theory about the use of Stormlight in a gem: Kaladin is said to 'infuse' himself with the Stormlight from a gem by 'inhaling' (may be something to do with Body Focus or Order 1, Inhalation). Here, it seems any vessel can be used for the Gem -> Kaladin stage. Here's where it gets sort of complicated (for me to explain, I'd hope you understand). Kaladin is the vessel used in the particular sort of Surgebinding in which he engages (presumably 'windrunning'). That's right. Not the gem. The gem, in this instance, is not used up or damaged, for it is in no way participating in the Binding. Just Kaladin. So, Kaladin, being filled with Stormlight, now uses it in Order to facilitate a certain Binding (Lashing) of his choice. He then takes the damage we see the gems Jasnah use get (presumably because of the cold placed on them when used immediately [see below]), feeling the cold. It sounded like the same process as gem -> Kaladin in that he 'infuses' other people/objects. However, it is at this instance that I shall (perhaps not without precedence) say that he then 'bends' the Light to perform the tasks, and his sDNA codes for in which ways he is able to bend it using the stages laid out in the 'Three Parts of Magic' (Realmatic theory of Binding). Firstly, Nahel Bond with spren: Physical deed -> Cognitive change (personality) -> Spiritual recognition (assuming spren are spiritual beings) Spiritual spren/altering of sDNA of host -> Cognitive gain of sentience by spren -> Physical link (appearance of spren? Following of spren?) Secondly, access to Stormlight: Physical inhalation from source -> Cognitive draw (inner inhalation, if you will) -> Spiritual movement of Stormlight (assuming Stormlight is a spiritual fuel) -> Cognitive exhalation -> Physical exhalation (this sequence uses both inhalation and exhalation: inhalation is the drawing in of Stormlight, exhalation is letting it go naturally (Kaladin says breathing releases Stormlight faster) but also through things like pores in your skin) Lastly, Binding (after Stormlight infused): Physical touch -> Cognitive will of movement -> Spiritual sDNA check (check of Nahel bond?) Spiritual movement of Stormlight -> Cognitive bending of the Light (thought of which power to use) -> Physical ramification (people stuck to the ceiling, etc) What's most important here is that Kaladin is the vessel (as would any other KR Windrunners, presumably). However, in Shallan and Jasnah's case, at no point do they inhale Stormlight, nor glow all over (this would give them away terribly, though). I believe this is because the vessel used in this instance (at the point of the Binding) is in fact still the gem. This explains the entire theory about gem -> Essence relationship, while Kaladin has no trouble using other gems. The Stormlight needs as vessel in order to be used for Bindings. This is pretty obvious throughout all Bindings. However, it is at no point specified what the vessel needs to be. In this case I take Telcontar's point that this is why gems are necessary for Bindings, because they are (as well as appropriately Bonded Surgebinders) one of the few vessels that can take up Stormlight, and at any rate, Highstorms aren't the safest places for more fragile vessels like humans. We tend to break easily. And so, in accordance with my 'bend the Light' -> produce a Binding/Effect theory, in the case of say Shallan, it was the gem she used as the vessel that determined the particular Effect produced. Because, as somebody earlier pointed out, in the wrong context, the vessel bends the Light akin to a prism splitting Stormlight. However, a Human vessel has access to as many functions as his sDNA and thus Nahel bond allows, the gem only has access to one of the Essences (and perhaps in other Bindings, one of the Bindings, as we are unsure whether all Surges apart from Transformation require Inhalation of Stormlight [because the Body Focus of KR order 1 is Inhalation]). So a Transformation would go like this: Physical touch (lets ignore Jasnah for now) -> Cognitive Truth/Giving (as Shallan gives a truth) -> Spiritual check of sDNA/Nahel (and permission given by Truthspren?) -> Cognitive Shadesmar (as in the entire transportation, talking to object, freeing it, all the necessary jobs) -> Physical rendition (goblet -> blood) This theory (probably not entirely original, its most likely already been suggested, what with the collaboration of devious minds that feed upon this forum) shalt now been dubbed, in truly flowery fashion, as 'The Realmatic Distortion of Stormlight through appropriate Vessels in Surgebinding and other Rosharian magicks'. Notes: aka TRDSVSR 'Rosharian' is now completely owned and copyrighted by me unless anyone can otherwise prove that the term has previously been used. The only counter argument (to my knowledge, at least) that I can perceive to my theory (please find any others) is that the body (in my Realmatic portrait of the inhalation of Stormlight) seems to accept the inhalation of Stormlight before the Spiritual Realm has even checked to see whether it is possible that you can, and, unless these processes are instantaneous, would lead to a rather awkward moment in your chull-training career. I hope this post was very clear. If you don't understand, tell me, if you don't agree, tell me, if you have a differing opinion for which you have proof, most certainly tell me, and if you do like it, don't keep it to yourself! I might post this theory as its own thread, but am unsure as to whether it is 'encompassing' enough for a full thread on General Theories, or whether it has been previously suggested, bu I hope it served the original purpose of clearing up my standing in the discussions that have been recently taking place on this thread!

It's still insulting to open up with the pretense that everybody who answers this particular thread is indeed a small lumbricus who mates with itself while perhaps deigning to chew on a few ancient tomes every now and again, despite the fact that one has indicated that this small groups of vermes includes oneself. /ridiculouspretensualdisagreement

That just shows I need a larger memory. And less spare time.

I didn't know that, Goradel's Nephew. But it would make sense. Maybe your sDNA and the configuration of the metal have to 'match' in order for you to use it? However, I appreciate your point that this would mean that metals everywhere would work, if they were precisely Allomantically alloyed. You're right about symbolspren not necessarily responding only to truth. Now, I will split my post in half to deal with two ideas about symbolspren. Shallan-only Symbolspren (in accordance with Satsuoni's point): In this idea, symbolspren are only the Nahel-spren of Shallan, and not the guardians of Shadesmar or anything. So, in this ideal, it would make more sense that telling truth only increases the bond to the truthspren, instead of forming bonds with them every time you wanted to access Shadesmar. In this idea, you would have to use the primary attribute in order to form the bonds with the Nahel-spren, ie, Shallan's creativity would've attracted the spren who were gathered around Taravangian that day she drew his portrait (may also have been to do with the act she wasn't concentrating that the portrait showed the symbolspren). Guardians-of-Shadesmar Symbolspren (in accordance with mine and Telcontar's previous posts): Thinking about symbolspren as universal aspects of the Cognitive Realm (as in both Shallan and Jasnah would have to profer turths in order to access ) doesn't reallt make sense in this context as you are trying to argue that symbolspren should only accept truths in order to increase the bond between the spren and it Nahel-owner, while at the same time trying to argue that Jasnah should also be able to do this, even though Honesty isn't her secondary ideal. However it isn't too hard to imagine that Giving Truth covers both aspects of the two Orders, as opposed to just being Giving increasing the bond, or just generally being Honest, not necessarily in conjunction with interaction with you and the symbolspren. Hope it helped.

I think I've got the gist of your counter-argument. I was confused by the lack of distinction of 'Surgebinding' (the magic system) and 'Surgebinding' (the act). By separating them it really helped with the flow of your argument and invalidated the argument I gave against 'Surgebinding' not being able to be the focus of itself, because you weren't saying that, you were saying that the 'binding' itself can vary, which makes sense. The problem I then see is, if Binding itself is the focus, then why do gems and Stormlight also have to omnipresently used (as you put it)? If Binding were the focus, as metals and Aons are the focus in other magic systems, then why are other items necessary in order to produce the Lashing/Transformation/Binding? It would make far more sense for something like gems or Stormlight to be the focus (especially if you take into consideration Windrunner's points in this post) in that it is universably necessary also. Just to put that into context: burning could be the focus for Allomancy. It's always finished at the end of the act, it has to be done in every act of Allomancy, it utilises the 'fuel' (on Scadrial metal is both the fuel and the focus), and yet it isn't the focus. Because a Binding might not be used in Voidbinding in the same way it can be applied in Surgebinding. Yet metals (and probably Stormlight/gems) are applied in every Metallic Art. This point however might not be valid as we don't know if Surgebinding and Voidbinding can be classified under the same magic systems like the Metallic Arts, or if Voidbringing and Surgebinding are/n't alike(especially if you read this post).

Try to keep in mind Hemalurgic decay. Do we have any evidence that, say, worldhopping in Shadesmar doesn't accelerate this process? It might never reach Roshar before having depleted. But it would be cool anyway, as surely atium cannot exist on Roshar.

Honor, the Shard, still, and will always, exist. Tanavast, the Bearer, is dead. But I always thought Surgebinding might go: Transformation Surge: Physical touch of the object -> Cognitive interference in Shadesmar (plea of the object to 'free' it) -> Spiritual Essence (seat of Honor's power) -> Cognitive 'freeing' of the object (altering it) -> Physical rendition (goblet -> blood). Of course, you'll all just start going: 'B-but Jasnah can S-Soulcast from a distance'. To which I say, I have no answer for. It has been theorized that it may be something to do with a 'Travel' Surge. Or maybe she was still technically 'touching' the thief through the rock. Because, y'know, rock is sacred and stuff. /rambling Lashings: Physical Touch (touch seems to be important) -> Cognitive will of Stormlight into object (or close of eye -> suspension of belief, if Goradel's Nephew is to be believed in this post) -> Spiritual pull of power -> Cognitive thought of Lashing to use/ Stormlight's use (Full, Reverse, Basic, etc) (?)-> Physical rendition (man -> ceiling) . Hope it helped.

No, no, you see this thread is a hotspot for us ramblers, specifically I. But this is interesting, sort of like a control check of 'does it fit into the Cosmere' is what I presume you mean? Lets see. So, say Kaladin is somehow transported to Scadrial. He is worldhopped through Shadesmar for example, just to keep it possible. He is now in the domain of Harmony. And so, it is my belief that he no longer has access to Surgebinding, but not because of what you might think. Say he carries three gems filled with Stormlight. Once he has used up the Stormlight in those three gems, he can no longer perform a Surgebinding. No Stormlight, no Surgebinding. No highstorms, no Stormlight. Same way if an Allomancer came to Roshar. No metal, no Allomantic powers (although I am unsure about metals on Roshar, this seems to be an unfair advantage, but we do not know if metals on Scadrial are special in someway, being the focus of a Shard). However, lets say Kaladin is beset upon by a crazy Hemalurgist, and is stabbed with a spike. Normally, as all human beings have 'attributes' such as strength and senses written into their sDNA as standard, and so if it was a spike of Iron, say, it would still steal Kaladin's strength. However, this is the pinnacle of my theory: if it was say, a Steel spike of pure Allomantic alloy that Kaladin was stabbed with, with the intention of stealing Allomantic physical powers (burning of Pewter, Tin, Steel, Iron)- nothing would happen. Kaladin would die, but the spike wouldn't be infused. Just as if you stabbed a Scadrial native with no Allomantic capability - no result. But, say a Feruchemist came to Roshar. I'm sure they could still store and release from their metal reserves - just have to bring them with them. Thing about Surgebinding and the Metallic Arts is, they are very good at not mingling. Jasnah travels to Scadrial with Stormlight-filled gems. She can still turn someone into crystal, but she wouldn't be able to sustain it for the lack of Stormlight. Allomancer comes to Roshar: once they burn all their metal, that's the limit of their power. They still need a source. Hope it helped.

Brandon mentioned somewhere that, because things like Allomancy and Feruchemy are genetic, there was a way of telling whether somebody was Allomantically viable: its called their 'Spiritual DNA', often referred to as 'sDNA', and things such as Lerasium and its alloys can 'alter' it in order to give you the power of a Mistborn/specific Misting. Its all written there in your sDNA. The interesting thing about the Nahel bond is, because it isn't genetic, it is hard to put a pin on the necessity of your 'sDNA' in this environment. Most people agree that forming a Nahel bond in some way updates your sDNA in order to give you access to the power of Surgebinding sat in the Spiritual Realm. The Oaths may create more openings, if we are thinking of sDNA as similar to a 'door' from your Cognitive to the Spiritual, and 'allows' certain powers through depending on the configuration. However, your point about the spren perhaps observing people of certain bloodlines is interesting. Perhaps on Roshar, if your father was an honorable person, it is in your DNA, or perhaps your sDNA to follow in his footsteps, thus becoming a likely candidate for the other spren. But I feel in this example, it is less likely that it is ingrained into you, or part of any aspect of your DNA, whether pDNA or sDNA, I feel that instead it is ingrained into a completely out of the box, new idea, Cognitive DNA. This is less of a thing that you inherit than something you obtain throughout life. However, if your father was a 'creative' person, surely it is more likely that, having watched him while growing up, and having spoken to him, perhaps being guided through engaging in 'creative' acts by him, that you will grow up to be a 'creative' person also? Simply because of the environment surrounding your upbringing. Thus, Cognitive DNA. Your mindset, your emotional package/rationale. You personality. This is what I believe Nahel spren look for, whereas metals look for sDNA, and perhaps Breath just focuses on pDNA, meaning that everyone can access the Breath, because everyone has a similar Physical manifestation. Just a thought.

Unsure how to progress with the theory any more for now. Would like some more feedback on the points made in the original post so I can set about rephrasing my argument, or ditching it altogether for a new point of view.

I have an idea. It is a basic list for now, as at GMT 0 its getting late. I hope I can add to it later after your feedback, I'll probably catch up on it some point next week. The Aspects of A Shard Categorized by Realmatic Theory (fancy title, check): Physical A Shard is connected to its physical aspect by an adaptation of the conditions of its Shardworld, ie metal, color. Sometimes this can be the Shard, or a simple manifestation of raw power as opposed to 'access points' (ie Preservation: raw power, Well of Ascension (and mists, I guess), access point, Allomancy). Spiritual The seat of a Power of a Shard. Completely removed from the Physical, the Spiritual is where the power accessed through things such as the Metallic Arts and Surgebinding begins to trickle from. A focus here gives universal availability to those with the correct sDNA (ie having a Breath). Cognitive The bridge between the Physical and the Spiritual. The place (Shadesmar) where the 'command' is given for the access point to pull power through. The Cognitive aspect of Allomancy, for example, is the thought behind 'burning' (somewhat subconscious, but for all we know, the subconsciousness may be the whole of it), and pulls the power from the Spiritual Realm (with aligned sDNA of Mistborn/Misting) with the potential aspect of the focus (metal) and it variation (say, pewter), into a Physical derivation (added strength, healing power, etc). For Feruchemy, the cycle would be: Physical loss of ability (senses, connection, Investiture) -> Cognitive process of storage -> Spiritual storage. Spiritual store -> Cognitive process of 'tapping' -> Physical manifestation (increased attribute, etc). For Hemalurgy, it might go: Physical death (loss of life) -> Cognitive: potential of (pull of power by) the metal -> (WOG) Spiritual: 'stolen' attribute latches onto the sDNA of the spike. (odd cycle: next stage is transfer of power) Physical piercing -> Cognitive pull of the metal (this is a very exhaustive reasoning) -> Spiritual attribute 'sDNA' swap (metal -> creature). As I said, needs refining.

I hope it comes true, if only so I can, at some point in the far, far far, future, reference the exact post I just made in a randomly off-topic thread entitled 'I told you so!'. But it most likely will not be so. I am never completely right.

They are lines caused when rock formations are pressured and crushed together into vertical rock folds, the 'ley lines' are the seams. /geography In some settings, the are the edges of small village areas (if you live in England, like 'boroughs', if in America/elsewhere, I don't know what you guys have for that... like a large district, I guess), and the area would be controlled by a manor house and the land owning Lord there. His 'hold' would be known as his 'ley' and the lines would have marked the edges of his territory. /history However, in some traditions, such as druidism, paganism, etc., 'Ley lines' were paths of spiritual energy in nature, that could be 'tapped', like in Aiken's Iron Kingdoms for Travel, or set up as warning lines, etc. Basically paths (like string) of spiritual connectivity. /religious-contextual-study However, onto the main part of my post. Of course I'll just pin it on Taravangian, but I feel that that would be beyond his power, if not something he might attempt (I don't think he controls symbolspren, just influences them in some way...). Elhokar may just be particularly gifted in this sense, or they might not be what we know as 'symbolspren', but as Nahel spren of a different order. I think 'careful' (cautious) is a trait he is particularly inclined in, but Wise doesn't match the young King. *Emphasis mineThis is really important for me. It has been linked with Surgebinding (at least Lashings) in this post, and I thing you really should read up on it, because for me it really highlights what you are saying. Your point could also be tangible evidence you could add to help the guys on the thread out. But, in short, the post I linked states: Szeth and Kaladin blink during Lashings. The original theorizer thought this may have to do with a necessity to maintain suspension of disbelief in reality, and thus gain a mild belief in the more mystical properties of the Surgebinding they perform. This might linked with Shallan being able to perceive symbolspren without 'trying' to perceive them. Akin to the saying I find in many fantasy books during the teaching of magics (namely: The Fifth Sorceress) 'let it come to you' and 'think without thinking', for magic surely cannot be a logical (scientific) process. I'll get back to you on this with its own separate post later, most likely this weekend. I can feel the theory sort of forming right now, but I need to give it proper shape before pitching it. Not only justifies, but would be right in his justification. If his ploys truly are the savior of Roshar, nobody will complain about all the deaths that he will have 'tucked under the carpet' so to speak. /rambling

He especially liked the ones that had shiny (sparkling = lucentia) bits in them. He treasured those ones most of all.

OMG! No way... Dalinar Kholin, Highprince of War, is in fact, the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood! Why didn't I think of this before....? Its just so obvious. Man goes to Nightmother, (hears whispers of contracts...) receives boon and bane, leaves (tells other members...) and then completely forgets his wife (because he's to busy dealing with people...). Random crazy thought. Szeth is the Listener. Killing random noble folk. Taravangian is the Nightmother....!

Perhaps they are attracted by the Intent of their Shard, perhaps, to a particular calling focus (metal, color, gemstones)? Perhaps Preservation and Ruin can be reflected in the properties of metals, ie malleable, etc (not sure about this one). Endowment may have some inexplicable link with color, etc. However I feel it more likely that it made the link with color because of the Shardworld's population's (do we have evidence Endowment made the people of Nalthis, and they weren't just already there?) blatant use of it. Maybe it wants the people to have an easier link to it, wants people to actually use it, join with it, and so the Shard uses something existing in the world that the people are familiar with as its Focus so more people have access to it. Or maybe its forced to be more accessible by the simple nature of the abundance of the material (metal, color, usual suspects, etc.) meaning that most of the population was exposed to it. Maybe the people of Scadrial (ridiculous, read on if you aren't either faint of heart or prone to liking stupid theories) somehow breathed the very essence of Preservation's hand in them (and thus Ruin's joined hand) into the metal the continually handled, and metal gained some sort of gathering Splinter of Preservation/Ruin/Harmony which made it the Focus, or made it viable for the sDNA of an Allomancer to tap the explicit raw power concealed in the metal against Ruin and Preservation's will... /ridiculoustheory

I told you I'd see you over here! Welcome, Telcontar, to the most insane portion of the forums! Now please allow me to systematically deconstruct your post, in a constructive manner (if one can possibly deconstruct constructively). Ok. This I do not agree with. I think it needs some outer-Cosmere context just to summarize my issue with it. Brandon explicitly confirmed, and we are in universal agreement that, the focus of the Metallic Arts of Scadrial is... metal (surprise). And so your statement that 'you can't use UP a focus' isn't applicable. Unless I'm wrong, the metal reserves of an Allomancer are pretty well used up during burning, however, the focus may not be the Physical rendition of the metal, but its Spiritual tie, which may not be used up. That is the only argument I can see that can state that a focus cannot be used up, after we explicitly saw the opposite in the Mistborn saga. How can a Surgebinding already be present if it is in fact necessary for it to make itself? If you need an existing, omnipresent Surgebinding in order to commit more Surgebindings, the first person ever to try Surgebinding was pretty screwed, and as we can see, he obviously succeeded. However, I understand what you mean, but thats the same as saying 'burning' is always present in Allomancy, or 'death' is always necessary in Hemalurgy. The act of Hemalurgy cannot be the focus for Hemalurgy. It doesn't make sense. But please try to prove me wrong! There are lots of different cuts and types of gem, and many different alloys of the 'pure' metals. However, the act burning Tin isn't a 'variation' of practicing the Metallic Arts, because on its own, the variation makes no sense. If a sole person used Transformation as we see Jasnah and Shallan doing, it is because of another factor than the fact that they are trying to achieve Transformation. Just willing yourself (with the correct sDNA, however), to be burning Tin doesn't make it the focus of the act. Sorry if this was incoherent, it wasn't a very good point. In summary: the focus cannot be the act itself, after all, metal isn't a 'variation' of Allomancy, or Feruchemy, but the 'variation' of the focus. That's true, but each burning doesn't produce a separate effect, as all Allomancers have to burn, and all Feruchemists store, this never changes. It is the metal (the focus) that varies to allow exclusive effects. So Surgebinding as an act just... can't be the focus of itself...? That may also have been poor, but I hope it gets the point across with the cross-links to Mistborn. About Nr.5 of the checklist, what it means is that there can be no confusion in what is meant by 'specific variation'. So, theorizing that the focus of Surgebinding is gems (maybe is, maybe isn't), then a heliodor is 'exclusive', in that one cannot mistake it for a ruby. Equally, in the Metallic Arts, there is not blurring between the meanings of 'pewter' and 'tin', thus they require exact percentages of the alloyed metals in order to be Allomantically (and presumably Feruchemically and Hemalurgically) viable. It is 'precise' and 'specific' in its definition, which, I will admit, Surgebinding is, but for the same reasons as above, can't be its own focus... It doesn't make sense compared to what we already know about focuses. Hope it helped, and look forward to your response! Odium's_Shard

In comparison to the Oaths, which I am unsure whether or not is related to the strengthening of the Nahel bond by the secondary attribute, at least, it seems to be a permanent bonus, as they don't seem to have to retake them. However, I feel it would be appropriate if neglecting them would result in the bonus becoming revoked (back to the previous level). However, Jasnah never mentions taking Five Oaths, yet she seemingly employs KR powers. Maybe she has taken them and we do not know of it. I am a bit hazy as to whether Kaladin had access to one of his Surges (Full Lashing?) before taking the First Oath. This would mean that the first Surge comes packaged with the initial Nahel bond, and you have to unlock the other one. In this case, Shallan would make sense. She has access to the Surge of Transformation, but, to my knowledge, has taken no oath (unless the giving of Truth is to the Sixth Order what giving Oaths is to the First). Please give your feedback.