Harbour

Recently found out about some bulgarian covers for RoW featuring Adolin and Shallan together in Shadesmar, and that they are potentially may be separated POV from other main cast. There are some doubts about that, but imo this is gonna be the real deal. Shallan and Adolin together on a trip, year after the marriage. Shallan, with her fractured personality. Adolin, seeing that. Together for a trip. Thats gonna be interesting to watch. Now, their trip is the tool that can be used in two different ways: either be the catalyst of their break up, or be the cure for their relationships. Both ways require certain set up. Now, its pure speculation time. I dont believe in perfect marriage for the whole year given the set up made in the end of the OB. The amount of nuances is catastrophic. How successful do you think Shallan will keep her promises to Adolin about her other personalities leaking? I imagine it being pretty tiresome for her to do this every time Adolin is near, for the whole year. Like, imagine the level of guilt she can have. She basically forced Adolin into marriage, promising him to be just Shallan, but she clearly had problems with personalities shifting. And Adolin would realistically have a doubt in her every time she fails to do this, while also keeping in min Kaladin stuff. I imagine two ways everything may go: 1) Shallan keeps her personalities in check everytime Adolin is near. She is kinda fed up with it. Every day she have to put on a mask for him. Finally, something happened before the trip and she and Adolin scream at each other or stop talking. Typical family crisis. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and during it they manage to either fix their relationships and learn more about each other, or to make sure their relationships wont work out. 2) Shallan can hardly keep her per personalities in check, so she tries to spend as much time far from Adolin as possible. it creates some issues within Adolin for obvious reasons. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and Shallan can no longer avoid Adolin. The issue becomes obvious the more time they spend together. Tension grows. Finally they go on angry rant. Then they either manage to fix their problems or decide to move on. Either way, i believe Shadesmar Trip was obvious and pretty predictable concept Brandon had to introduce to show the problems of Adolin and Shallan marriage. It can easily be used to both break them up or fix their relationships, and by the end of the RoW they will either be divorced or become even better couple.

I absolutely agree. I meant that from purely narrative standpoint it would be kinda problematic to execute it properly. If Brandon would decide to do it and pull it off realistically and satisfying, then i would be fine with young Shallan-mother.

I wouldnt be surprised if Kaladin's parents will live even after 10th book.

Highly doubt Adolin and Shallan would have a kid. The cast is already pretty tight, so introduction of the new, pretty significant, objective for Adolin and Shallan to focus on seems like not the most rational decision, especially since OB got some critique about being too unfocused and too vast. I personally also dont see Shallan being mother. She is clearly a kid herself, as i saw her in OB, and its kinda ineffective to push her towards such a high bar as caring for a child without resolving her own issues first. Maybe in Book 5 or between Book 5 and Book 6. Also, if Shallan and Adolin will have a child, it would be girl 100%. I believe Oroden, Gavinor and Shallan's daughter would be the main trio of Books 6-10. First one was introduced for a reason, and not just to be an object to add to Kaladin motivation in the beginning of OB. Him and Gavinor would be friends and/or foes, with third character, female one, added into mix to form classic trio. As for Jasnah and Kaladin, i find the concept itself fascinating and interesting to explore, but i also cant see anything that implies the potential development in romantic route, besides them bickering once and sharing some qualities both respect and find nice. Though, imagine them deciding to work under some war plans or even science plans. Slowly, one shared scene of discussions after another. Kaladin helps her resolve some stuff, Jasnah helps Kaladin to resolve his stuff. Boom, one day one of them or both feels fine being with each other in one room. There is no too much "tryhard" on Brandon side. He doesnt even imply there would be something romantic. He doesnt focus on them too much. Just two people working and talking, like Dalinar and Kaladin in WoR. Slowly, scene after scene, they share some fun between, then there is some hard time but they manage to go through it, and then boom, there is one spark, and they have some hot intimate interaction . Something like that can work out but there need to be some slow and patient development.

Its certainly Shallan. And i see the future so can tell you 5th book UK cover will have Kaladin on it.

Always imagined them consisting of huge bulky metallic plates with visible power lines of glowing light that allow the stormlight to circulate around the whole armor, powering it up. When BS described the fight scenes, every time Shardbearers crushed each other Shardplates, i imagined them destroying those power lines so the stormlight leaked out of them. Something like this:

I believe its kinda naive for some people to believe Brandon finished with the triangle. I can hardly find good fantasy/sci-fi book where the writer actually set up the couple in the second act of the story. And there is obvious elephant in the room with how Brandon executed Shallan and Adolin relationships into marriage. It felt pretty questionable which makes me think he did this absolutely on purpose. If not triangle, but Adolin/Shallan relationships will certainly be put under pressure so they have to successfully fix them by the end of the story. Make them right, so to speak.

Also think Kaladin's endgame is to become the King of Alethkar (while Dalinar will become the Ascended Keeper of Roshar or even Cosmere scale of entity) until Brandon will decide to break his pedestal in the process. Protect and lead are Windrunner's ideals. We have already saw protective side of them. Leading - and im talking about it meaning Leading with big L - not so much. I think 4 and 5 books will show us much more of that and i think Book 5 will end with Kaladin as the King and Dalinar as an Ascended Entity, so Brandon can focus on new main characters for the next 5 books. And personally me - im a sucker for protagonist classic Glorious Ending. And i think in the Book 4 Kaladin will end up pretty low just to elevate himself in the end of Book 5. All glorious, shining, epic and badass. I believe Brandon also tends to follow classic routes to oppose George Martin'esque type of character arcs.

This is no brainer to me - Kaladin. He is definition of engaging protagonist.

Yep, that another solid possibility. I can even imagine the scene in the beginning of the Book where Jasnah comes to Kaladin to tell him about annoying bodyguards that always follow her in the distance, and Kaladin in typical Kaladin's manner tells her "that its just his duty and he doesnt actually care about what she think". Sounds like another way to build the conflict.

Excellent post i totally agree with. Taking out Sanderson's intentions we know nothing about, id say that would be an essential way to develop Jasnah and Kaladin relationships. I may turn out to be completely wrong when Book 4 will come out, but right now im pretty sure that Kaladin will see Gavinor as a chance to redeem himself after he couldnt protect Elhokar. He also witnessed Elhokar's flaws, and as a smart guy and good mentor, would try to teach Gavinor what his father didnt learn originally. And Book 4 will definitely contain some Kaladin/Gavinor scenes, even if there wont be a huge timeskip. As for Jasnah, well, Elhokar was her brother, and Gavinor is her nephew. It would be essential for her to have some interactions with him, and thus, probably, with Kaladin. I can even imagine how Navani or/and Dalinar tell her "Well, dear, we totally believe you will take care of your nephew. Good luck" at some point of the story. There are so much possibilities actually. I can imagine Jasnah being indifferent towards Gavinor, while Kaladin spend some good time with him, training or telling fairy tails, and then Dalinar and Navani tell Jasnah to care about Gavinor and she fails, and then she decide to ask Kaladin for help and this kind of potential situations would create some really good humorous moments.

I bet (and hope) we gonna see a lot of Jasnah/Kaladin hot scenes in 4 and 5. Probably not overly romantic (or actually pretty romantic), and not because some first glance love, but because of their status now and situation they trapped in. The Elhokar's son, Gavinor, would play the huge role into bringing them together or clash their heads. Just to take that possibility out immediately - i dont think Dalinar and Navani would play the role of Gavinor's parents. They had too much their own stuff to do and Gavinor would be the yonger generation characters business (Kaladin, Jasnah, Shallan, Adolin). I also think Shallan and Adolin also has their own business. Only Kaladin and Jasnah left. He is directly connected to Gavinor and she is Gavinor's child free aunt. Kaladin now is high-ranked light-eye Knight Radiant who has own lands and who (i guess) will take a huge part into the life of Elhokar's son, who in fact is the rightful heir to the throne. I dont think the last scene of OB where Kaladin's people brought Gavinor to Kaladin was done for nothing. It seems like symbolic scene and for Kaladin to protect Gavinor's interests would the matter of honor and duty in memory of Elhokar who he couldnt save. And Jasnah is manipulative woman, named the Queen of Alethkar and Gavinor's aunt. I still can't see what her thoughts about nephew would be but id guess they would directly go against everything Kaladin want for him. And then their different interests will clash and I'm so excited to see overprotective (or careless) aunt Jasnah and overprotective papa wolf Kaladin to bite each other asses over what they think would be the best for the poor Gavinor future. I think thats what may bring them two together in a romantic way in the end of Book 4/5 and essentially make them a real couple to be a parents for Gavinor.

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point out protagonists will face the flying chasmfiend.

Im sorry. I didnt mean to offend anyone. Reading HP and SA i feel Kaladin belongs more to Gryffindor. Yes, he has some qualities like "i dont want get involved into some bad stuff" or desire to leave in peace, but they are not dominant in him in the context of the Roshar. Constant struggle, strife, desire to lead, to protect, brilliance and bravery always prevail in Kaladin. And Gryffindor makes the bigger emphasis on all these traits than Hufflepuff in HP books. Thats why i was surprised by how Brandon put Kaladin into Hufflepuff category without even a doubt. Id say there is 65% Gryffindor, 20% of Ravenclaw and 15% of Hufflepuff in him.

I really cant see why Brandon think Kaladin fits Hufflepuff. I mean, based on how Kaladin was written he is deinitely not a somewhat clumsy, not very bright and "just a kind lazy guy" or who typical Hufflepuff student is. He is straight Gryffindor material. Like in every aspect. Brave, brilliant, good friend. Typical Gryffindor dude.

Yeah, on Roshar the one who controls the storms controls the world itself. Wouldnt be surprised if Kaladin will shape up to be a messianic type of character by the end of the book 5 or 10.

What if (shock!) Jasnah will make Kaladin happy? She is probably wise woman.

Given Windrunner's traits are Protection and Leading, i think the last oaths would be connected with Leading. He would be the High King i believe. He will learn to lead. He will need to.

I suspect no one else here address the fact that Brandon introduced two kids characters and tied both to Kaladin in the Oathbringer. Its Oroden and Gavinor. Oroden is Kaladin's new brother and another reason to protect the humanity. Gavinor is Elhokar's son, and thats really interesting hook for a new plot line. Elhokar basically passed everything he cared about to Kaladin. And its really symbolic that Kaladin's men brought Gavinor to Kaladin. To safety. Now, i dont expect much development for Kaladin-Mentor-Brother-Father Fighure plot line in Book 4 but i definitely expect Kaladin to become the father figure for Gavinor in the following books. And that will bring so much juicy stuff revolving the throne, Jasnah, ruling family and stuff. I find it interesting because 1) Its exciting to see will Brandon gave some papa-wolf scenes for Kaladin; 2) Its interesting to see what roles both Gavinor and Oroden will play in Kaladin's character development and life beyond being just an objects for him to defend; 3) Its interesting to see Oroden and Gavinor dynamic in the back 5 books. I suspect they are similar in age, both of them most likely will be tied to Kaladin, and it would be interesting to see their dynamic given they have such a badass brother/"father figure".

I need a Book 4 to even say this. Both of them shared the single one dialogue in the whole 1200 pages book if I'm not mistaken. Jasnah also mentioned him couple times but curiously without even knowing him. Kaladin on other hand didn't mention her at all. So their relation were explored the least in Oathbringer. I guess we will learn much more. I honestly wonder will Gavinor be someone Kaladin and new High Queen will break the spears around. I find it kinda symbolic that it was Kaladin people who brought Elhokar's son to Kaladin. And it was Elhokar who basically pass all he cared about to Kaladin. I would like to see Kaladin showing some father-like attachment to Elhokar's legacy and Jasnah trying to do something about it.

@SLNC @Ailvara its done) I hope some of you twitted the link to Brandon as i did. The more people will twit him that summary, the higher chance he will read it.

Yep, that was kinda weird after all that awesome jump/throw/crush stuff Adolin and other princes did in WoR.

Yeah, when i read that little section of dialogue i was really confused. I mean, if Jasnah replaced "your team" with "you" it would be 100% straight flirting. Even with "your team" it sounds like an awkward attempt to flirt. And Jasnah "curiously smiled" before dropping this sentence. I guess in her life men usually tried to pick her up, and only Kaladin openly show his indifference to her. That might be intriguing for her. I wonder why no one even brought this scene before. Its really an interesting one.

Kaladin and Shallan always reminded me this couple. The archetypes isnt 100% accurate but the main traits are pretty the same. And their dynamic is pretty great. And, well, that moment with removing the glove is near perfect. Almsot like removing the glove from the safehand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z3THzjr48c

I still shake my head wondering what exactly convinced Shalladin supporters betas. Its not that OB was full of hints on Shalladin being bad ship, neither it has alot of hints on Shadolin being the solid right design. Some answers shocked me by how indignant they sounded. "Thanks god its over like that", "Its an oath, dont they dare to break it", "Kaladin is terrible for Shallan", "Kaladin always was just a friend for Shallan", "Adolin is so good because he picked the real Shallan". Like, really? I wont ask how did they read the book. It just worry me that they might influence Brandon's story. I still secretly hope he rubbed his hands looking at misled betas, because that clearly was his intent to misled the readers who didnt read carefully.