Harbour

I believe that at certain point of the book they will meet. Leshwi being tied up with Kaladin, and Venli being tied up with Leswhi, while also being rebellious type who may become the Radiant while also seeking freedom, can result into them eventually talking. Brandon also made a certain emphasis on Venli envoy form and her ability to translate all languages. It points at the possibility that her skills will have the use in the future. I personally sure she or she+Leshwi will have a meeting with humans. Will it be Kaladin on an official diplomacy mission, or them going on to secret meeting with Kaladin company of peacemakers? Dont know. I can think of following ideas: 1) The most simple. Dalinar wants to set up the meeting with Singers. Leshwi+Venli would be their representatives. Kaladin and Dalinar would be representatives of the humans. 2) The rebellious one. Venli will finally reveal herself to Leshwi and they will set up the secret meeting with the human-person Leshwi thinks of the best. 2a) It might be Leshwi's initiative to set up the meeting with Kaladin and Venli would be brought up because of he language and translation skills. 3) Timbre and Syl at some point will meet and set up the meeting of their hosts on themselves.

I think ma boy Kal just see people for who they are, not for how they look like. Also they probably fough so many times he got used to seeing her without noticing the body she use.

Its interesting that Brandon mentioned specifically that Venli can understand different languages. I can imagine the sequence where Leshwi will take Venli to be a translator for her and Kaladin during their potential secret meeting. That could be the starting point of their adventure. Bonus point if pro-Odium Fused will ambush the whole meeting, killing Leshwi for betrayal, and Kaladin and Venli will survive and cooperate after that.

This made me consider the possibility of Lezian killing one Windrunner after another in order to provoke Kaladin out of surgeon job, and these deaths would heavy the burden of guilt Kaladin has, untill the breaking point when he will say 4th Ideal.

I think people who want to see Venli-Kaladin are fascinated by the very concept of two people of different world but with similar moral qualities exchanging their experiences. I personally wonder can Venli-Kaladin work with the way they are, and can they help each other. As more of Kaladin fan (as im of Kaladin's target audience so to speak), i personally wonder can and how can Venli help Kaladin with his problems in a way no human female can. Given she is singer, different race, i hope she can provide different approach to Kaladin's moral views. I also am exciting of unspoken but potential possibility of Singers and Human uniting against Odium, fixing their broken relations. Kaladin and Venli are the most fitting persons to lead ther respective races towards that ultimate resolution and this concept is also exciting to me. It always was an exciting concept of two representatives of completely different races to exchange their knowledges, views, traditions, habits, experiences to create something better of it.

Venli's Tuesday bois!!!

I have a wild theory that when humanity came from Ashyn to Roshar, Roshar was literally reflection of Shadesmar - what is the continent now was the bottom of the ocean back then. Because of huge storms human decided to hide beneath the surface of the ocean. Urithiru and some other cities were protected by sort of energetic/fabrial shields. To provide the connection between cities were created the Oathgates. They allowed to travel without going through the water. Shardplates were sort of underwater equapment that allowed people to go outside the cities and hunt down chasmfiends who inhabited the bottom of the oceans. Then Desolation happened, destroying almost everything and imprinted the Roshar real look into form of Shadesmar, with land turned into glass under highest temperatures and water turned into obsidian. Spren in Shadesmar look like they they looked on Roshar before Desolation. Now there are just their leftovers floating around. Some of them slowly gain the long lost identity. I know, there are many things that may contradict this, yet i think Oathgates were created not just to make ancient people travel faster, but because they had no other way to travel between their cities at all.

I see OP's point. Depression is the thing that cant just gone, but at the same time its fiction fantasy story. It supposed to entertain and to create great characters to enjoy reading about. In case of Kaladin the realism of his mental health at some point started to overwhelm his character. While its still kind of interesting to read about his struggles with depression, i find his WoR and partly OB versions way more enjoyable to read about, when he had stuff to do and struggle with morality problems, not mental health one. His arc kinda feels like the fight against his own shadow. It cant just end. It wont end. And to read about this sucks. Because i love Kaladin whenever he broods because something actually pissed him off, not because of mental health problems. I love his character. I will follow him for sure. I see why some people like how Brandon realistically depicted him and why some people like it because they can relate to him. I also see why some people want Brandon to tone down Kaladin's depression for sake of more enjoyable character progression. Love and care of close people help with depression. Kaladin has plenty of it. Let him embrace it.

I voted "YESSSSSSSS!"

Im way more excited about Kaladin's arc now than if he just continued to fight and moan. I loved the WoK chapters where Kaladin just cared about his people, bickering with traders and trying to win better life for bridgemen. I want to see him showing off as professional surgeon. I want him to learn some new things about helping people besides killing. I want to see him working with Lirin. I want to see him and Edgedancers going around. I want to see him achieving some new heights in healthcare business. Bring it one, Brando Sadno (surname changed intentionally). Kaladin Stormblessed Hands and his Sylpel.

So i wonder now. Did Syl came to Dalinar to thank him in her Interlude because Kaladin played resentful kid and didnt talk to him again.

Its interesting to see how Brandon intentionally paralleled Kaladin's order for Honorspren (10 days) and Dalinar's order fro Kaladin (10 days). Honestly, the way Kaladin ordered around Honorspren felt very un-Kaladin move.

Chapter 10. OOOOOOOOOF.

I have a theory - because her name is the name of Cultivation's vessel, which is also unknow yet. Im still at that "Shallan is somehow connected to Cultivation and Cultivation or Nightwatcher used their powers to suppress her memory in the Dalinar way so she will slowly reveal hidden secrets about her childhood" theory. Its about meta narrative and fantasy tropes. I believe that if Brandon for some reason connected Kaladin to Tanavast and through it to Honor, he must have also connected second protagonist to Cultivation's vessel and through it to Cultivation. We just didnt learn that yet.

Right now both Kaladin and Shallan felt way too mental health centric. I understand that in real life mental health may play very important role, however, this is the fictional story, fantasy one, whose general purpose is to entertain and satisfy the audience. Id wish Kaladin's depression influenced his reflection upon various things in a lesser way. In WoK this was kinda negated by his desire to save his teammates, in WoR he was busy enough to not dive too much into depression (and thats when his character, imo, shone and was enjoyable to read about the most), in OB it was kinda routine-centric except for Kholinar trip. In RoW now it became obvious that he need to be brought to do more than just fighting. Maybe thats why Brandon will shift him into surgeon position. Im actually excited to read more about Kaladin-surgeon, if it wont be the 100 pages of him glooming and being a supreme edgelord. I want him to heal patients, bicker with Edgedancers about how to better do their job, care for hospital and talk about how is better to infrastructure the care system. Weird, i know, but this will allow to focus on him, not his mental health. Shallan also was the most fascinating to read about in WoR. Back then she didnt split into three personas, so she was both smart, cunning, dangerous, observing, funny and full of life. Then, in OB, it seems like she just took her traits, give some of them to Veil, some of them to Shallan, some of them to Radiant - at turned those traits to eleven to enforce her personas. In OB i simply didnt want to read her chapters because the process of fracturing wasnt appealing to read. By the start of RoW, i feel, this process was finished, and her personas stabilized, and she became somewhat new character, but i regain the interest in reading her chapters. She became different, but the scenes of her inner voice emerging one after another is pretty chilling and interesting to read about. Maybe Brandon figured out how to handle the writing of her character, maybe it was the influence of beta-reader with DID, but Shallan became readable again, at least for me. So, my interest in reading about Kaladin and Shallan was like this: WoK: Kaladin - 9/10, Shallan - 6/10; WoR: Kaladin - 10/10, Shallan - 8/10, OB: Kaladin - 9/10, Shallan - 3/10, RoW Preview: Kaladin - 7/10, Shallan - 8/10.

Maybe Lin Davar cheated on his wife with someone extremely powerful (Cultivation's vessel, Unmade in human form, someone else) and Shallan became the fruit of this cheating. Thats why she got her powers and thats truly why Lin's wife may wanted to kill her. Im just toying around and speculating ofc.

Imo Shallan arc is to stop being Formless, to accept herself and stop rely on creation of Shallan, Veil, Radiant. She need to absorb their traits and accept them as her own, not their. Stand on her own legs firmly, like Wit said to her, without personas wheelchair. Stop being Formless and become One. Because while being formless, she creates those forms in shape of Shallan, Veil and Radiant. When she will become One, there would be no need in coping mechanisms. I think culmination of her arc would be discovering her deepest secret, which is connected to who she truly was before coping mechanisms kicked in her childhood.

To me Chapter 9 sent quite opposite message. It was largely the "admitting the problems Adolin and Shallan have despite what happened in the end of OB" chapter. In fact, its basically knocked the soil from under Shadolin's foundation and credibility with Shallan admitting herself being the fakest of her three (four) persons. Veil non-chalantly talking about her in third person while sitting before Adolin is in no way normal give how seemingly uneasy for Adolin to handle that situation. It does seem like a narrative aiming at Adolin eventually accepting the fact that he married the cardboard poster girl with the set of created traits, not the actual person. I predict it will eventually be followed by either peaceful break up, or toxic one, because i cant see any magic way in which Shallan and Adolin will suddenly solve "the cardboard poster girl" problem.

Like i said in another thread, in case of Shallan mental problems ARE basically her character and that sucks. In WoK and WoR she was more or less complete and fine enough, but in OB he became so fractured that i lost her and lost interesting in reading about her. She doesnt feel like a real person or even fiction character. More like android with very different personalities and constant shifts in views. Probably very realistic depiction of person with such diagnosis but not a good book character. I will add now, that i hope Brandon will be able to twist her character in a way that will make her satisfying character (for me) to read about. In chapter 9 he did it successfully. In previous 8 not so much, honestly.

Yep, i find it disturbing.

Agree. This may go into the direction of fabricated family that adopted Shallan because someone asked them to adopt her. Or maybe it was Shallan herself who subconsciously forced them to take her and supressed their and own memories about that to comfort her. Or something even more wild, like her being some creature who seek for family and found it in Davar, and assimilated there, faking own persona and look. You answered your own question.

Scene when Shallan talked to Adolin, and then Veil emerged and started talking about Shallan in third person, was truly disturbing. I feel really bad for Adolin who tries to keep sanity talking to wife who partly isnt his wife. Im pretty sure his question about Veil being with someone else was dropped for a reason and the tension will keep rising. I hope it wont end up in the same spot Gavilar and Navani ended up in prologue.

Shallan's deeper secrets than even killing her father and mother. He life being lie. Formless. Is Shallan secretly some ancient creature with erased memory? Is she Sibling? Is she Unmade herself? Is she Cultivation's vessel or something? I think we need to search something in that direction.

In before full Venli chapter. Shallan story in Sadeas camps seems to be finished and there may very well be no-Kaladin PoV for audience to get a little break from him.

Big TRUE.