Jace21

If thats exact then sure. All the sources I could find for both Manywar-Warbreaker and Catacendre-Era 2 said something to the effect of "about 300 years". If that means 300 give or take 15 years then we have a potential 30 year period for Nightblood amd Vashers establishment on Roshar to happen. Like I said, unlikely and I personally agree that warbreaker is closer to Era 1 than Era 2. But not actaully impossible.

Good Afternoon Fellow Sharders! So it's been a long while since I posted any kind of theory, all my previous ones were debunked by Oathbringer and I have become a little cynical about trying to out-guess Brandon. That said, I have been thinking about this one for a while. How exactly is Odium bound to the Greater Roshar system? We know he is invested quite heavily there, but why would he do that? After all we have this WoB (all WoBs will be spoilered for length): Well he seems to have spectacularly failed on that count, so what happened? I propose the answer is quite simple: He made some promises he shouldn't have. Part #1 - Shardly Promises So the first part of this is something we have little evidence for, but I am convinced is the case. That is: Shards must keep their promises. Honor himself in WoK gives us the first clue in the below: So all Shards (or the 3 Rosharan ones at the least), are bound by certain rules. One of these is the rule regarding champions that we saw in Oathbringer and has been hinted at elsewhere in the Cosmere. I propose that another one of these rules is that they cannot break their word. In Oathbringer, Odium told us this after being queried by Taravangian: Now I know what you are going to say, "but he could be lying" and yes, he could. But I don't think he is. Smart Taravangian has shown a remarkable understanding of the situation on Roshar and left very specific details on how his slow self could get the deal. If Odiums word wasn't enough I imagine he would have know. The Stormfather also claims that "Spren and Gods cannot break their oaths". Add to that the fact that Odium must abide by the rules of the challenge of champions and we have NEVER seen a shard break a promise, not even Odium or Ruin, and I think we have reasonable cause to believe that they can't. Or the 3 Rosharan Shard can't at the very least. Now I am sure their interpretation of the promise makes a difference in what they can do to get around it, nevertheless, I think they have to abide by the interpretation they make. Part #2 - The Timeline Just to make sure we are all on the same page the following is a list of the relavent beings/species that came to Roshar in chronological order: Parshendi/Listeners/Singers - Pick your name, these guys are native, as far as we know. Honor and Cultivation - Arrive together and, with the spren, become the Singer gods. Humans (at least 1st Wave) - They fled Ashyn, and were given Shinovar as their new home. Odium - Arrived around the same time as the humans, close enough that the Singers believe the humans brought him, but that may not be the case. Now Odium may have arrived just before or with the humans. I think it was likely a little after but it doesn't really change anything either way. So we know from OB that some time after the humans arrive, they began to expand. At some point they also began to worship Honor and Cultivation, such that the Singers felt betrayed. That led to the first desolation which per OB, went something like this: Singers (at least some of them) want power to regain their lands and kill the humans. They make a deal with Odium and become the Fused. They can Surgebind and can't be permanently killed. They begin killing many humans, presumably maing headway in their war. 10 people made a deal with Honor, the Oathpact. They would become the Heralds and seal the Fused on Braize so long as they stayed there. However, we know the Heralds broke and let the Fused past. Once they were defeated again on Roshar, the Heralds went back to Braize and sealed them again, until the next time they broke. And so begins the cycle of Desolation. Part #3 - Conclusion Now the key part of all that is the deal he made with the Fused. The Singers seemed to have knowledge of and contact with Honor and Cultivation so it may not have been an accident, but one way or another Odium promised them he would help them regain their land. He was probably wary of investing but anticipated a short campaign that would get the Singers their land and, once their believers were gone and anything they had invested in destroyed, he could Splinter Honor and Cultivation and move on. The Oathpact prevented this by stopping him fulfilling his promise the Fused. He can't break it so he has to stick around and keep his word. Until the Fused are victorious, he can't Divest from the Rosharan System. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to see what people think. There are some potential issues with it but I think it fits quite well with what we know as well as explaining how the Honor/Cultivation/the Oathpact, have bound him without him being one of the parties involved (as per WoB) All comments and criticism welcome Thanks, Jace

You're right when I said his ascension was probably I was thinking 300 years pre-Warbreaker was the first returned, not the Manywar. That said the time line is too vague to be 100% sure Sazed hasn't ascended. But as we've said, he is too ignorant to be involved with other worlds and doesn't seem the type to make Nightblood anyway. The WoB hinting Nightblood has grown more powerful far precedes the letter in Oathbringer so I doubt Brandon was referring to post-letter Nightblood when he said it.

This seems plausible, but has a couple of issues. The timeline you mentioned already, Sazed had probably ascended already when NB was made but he may not have been. The other is, why? We know that forces are actively working to limit Harmony's knowledge and cosmere awareness. He even seems surprised by the contents of Hoids letter, most of it is new to him. I find it unlikely that he used investiture in another Solar System to create a crazy sword of destruction over a century ago when he is so ignorant.

There is a fair bit of wiggle room here. Your first idea could still be correct, it just depends how carefully Brandon chose all his words and the wording of the letter is ambiguous. Plot to destroy Adonalsium could have referred to the power itself. When Brandon said that Adonalsium shattered because he was killed, he could have meant the personality, not the power. Two equally valid but very different meanings of the name Adonalsium. The letter mentioning Rayse becoming what he wished to be could just mean that Rayse desired power. That, or that some of the group knew more about the effects of the attempted killing than others. Its tough to say with the information we have, but I still believe the WoBs refer to a single plot, but I guess we'll RAFO.

At this point the Shards are not evil, not even Odium or Ruin. The vessels can be corrupted/evil as you mention but thats all. However if a Shard is left unheld long enough it becomes sentient. That coukd be terrifying, I really dont want to know what the sentient embodiments of hatred and decay look like.

Like I already said, thats NOT what he says. What he says is that the cold is from the Shardblade condensing. Nowhere does he say it condenses from Stormlight. We know it is the physical manifestation of a spren, Stormlight need not be present. Spren =/= Stormlight. They are both investiture, but they're not the same. The same condensation seems to have happened to Taln at the end of WoK. Is he made of stormlight too? He only compares a shardblade to a person holding Stormlight in as much that they are both invested. He doesnt say they are the same thing. Yes, there are gaseous, liquid and solid forms of investiture, but they are still distinct. It is not so simple as saying that because a Shardblade is solid investiture and Stormlight is gaseous investiture that a Shardblade is solid Stormlight.

This doesn't square up with pieces of Plate shattering though. The piece doesnt just break, the broken piece disappears completely. That means at least some of those minor spren no longer exist in the physical realm, and Stormlight cant bring them back. The pieces left can't contain all the spren or it would mean some part of them existed fully in the physical realm but not the rest, which doesnt make sense. Syl cant make a smaller blade and still be in spren from to fly around and look at things. She is either a blade or she isnt. But they dont. The gem isnt required for the blade to work, whereas the plate does. You cant summon/dismiss plate and you can a blade. You dont have to wear the plate for it to repair itself, so nothing is bonded to you. No bond has to be broken to pass the plate on. The gems seem to serve completely different functions. I dont think that is what the WoB is saying. He specifically says the cold is NOT from the stormlight. The blade materialising causes the frost. No where does he say the blade is stormlight or vice versa.

How would that help in this case? If a Radiant is required to bond the spren, then just Stormlight can't replace that bond. If your lesser spren = weaker godmetal/Plate theory is right then once the plate is broken they should just lose their ties to the physical and be primarily cognitive again. I wouldnt help at that point or we'd have Plate metal forming over every infused gem on Roshar.

There a few things, not just one: - its breakability as you mentioned - why does it need stormlight when blades dont? - why doesnt a radiant hear screaming when they touch it? There are other threads going into more detail. The lesser spren = shardplate theory is probably the most popular but by no means a sure thing yet. Solidified stormlight is another one I have seen mentioned.

Amaram says "he would never forgive me" and points at himself. I always took that the same as Denth, that it was purely his own guilt that prevented it. I think a simple voidspren possession can be overcome, so it wasnt until Yelig-nar that it was too late.

I actually think it was the other way around, that the Shard took the name from the religion, not the other way around. With regards to the OP, it is certainly possible. Brando. Does like to slot these things in where he can. Scadrial is an unusual choice for a Rosharan Shard but I would not be even a little surprised.

Preservations plan was good, as far as it went. Its flaws can mainly be attributed to its inability to adapt, since it was made by Preservation so long ago. Once he lost most of his mind he couldn't adapt the plan to fit any changes to the future. The Lord Ruler limiting knowledge, both of technology and Allomancy, as well as hoarding the Atium instead of allowing it to be burned were issues he hadnt accounted for and, by the time they happened, was unable to fix.

I am of the opinion that 1 bullet can't pentrate Shardplate, like you say, its difficult, if not impossible to pierce. However I don't think it would take many shots to hit 1 piece before it shattered. There are sharders that disagree with me though, I have seen it effectively argued that bullets would be all but ineffective against Shardplate.

I know she is officially queen, but from the way Dalinar asked Adolin, I see it more as a regency. Once Elhokars son (Gavinor?) reaches adulthood he will assume the throne.

Sure, the time that armour and guns crossed, high quality plate could stop the projectiles of the era. But I specified moder. Firearms which changes things. The reason metal armour stopped being effective is because as projectiles changed (from balls to bullets for example) the only way to keep up was to make the metal impractically thick, hence the shift to polymers and ceramics. But as I said, Shardplate ignores a lot of the downsides, but still suffers from trying to protect against something it was not designed to do. I am sorry but it is true. Take the middle/late medieval period in Europe, probably the most famous era of sword and armour warfare. As metallurgy and smithing techniques improved, armour, particularly plate armour, advanced to the point where swords were rarelt ever used on the battle field against armoured opponents. The most common weapons were axes, maces, hammers, poleaxes etc. Slashing attacks were just not effective anymore, bludgeoning and piercing with something heavy were better options. Occasionally swords were used, in two styles. 1. Half-swording, using your second hand part way up the blade to wield it like a short spear, targeting weak points in the opponents armour. 2. Using huge two handed swords. This happened sometimes but they were effective because of their weight, more to bludgeon than to cut. So yes, plate armour developed to the point where the sword as a weapon was inferior in essentially every way to other weaopns when it came to piercing armour. They were still used for style, ceremony, tournaments and cutting down unarmoured peasants but in serious combat between armoured men, not so much.

The WoB doesnt say he would have been tempted, it says that "if he were tempted by a shard" it would be Endowment. I know it seems petty, but its an important distinction. Hoid may not want any Shard, but would pick Endowment if he were forced to choose. Thats not the same as being tempted by himself. Personally I think he would prefer it if forced to take ons because its Intent would be the least limiting to his agenda. I doubt mass-producing Nightblood forms much, if any, of his plan, he seems to be very occupied with other things.

Sure, with respect to the OPs question, I agree that with our current understanding of the metallic arts, creating a shardblade would be impossible. For guns, most modern rounds would penetrate medieval armour. While Shardplate in particular has many advantages over medieval plate, it would be easier use weight of fire to break the plate than an incredibly accurate cannonball. With respect to which would be better, a sword-shaped metalmind or Aluminium sword, that is a difficult one, but in the Cosmere I still lean toward Aluminium. Historically swords are non good anti-armour weapons at all, so I'd rather have the ability to leave my sword in until they die to prevent healing than a weapon that was still bad (if slightly better) against armour. But yeah Era 2 Scadrial vs Roshar is far from a fair fight at the moment.

We dont know how Plate would hold up against any kind of bullet. There have been threads but I dont think a consensus was ever reached, particularly when you factor Aluminum into the equation. I see things like explosives, weight of fire, heavy caliber weapons, artillery, pewterarms/feruchemists as being effective enough that they do to need to develop Shardblades.

I think the point being made is that Scadrial considers firearms the better weapon to begin with. If I already have access to bullets that can't ve effected by investiture and interfere with healing if they stay in the body, why would I want a sword? The only situation where any kind of sword is more useful would be against shard-plate and thats what explosives are for.

I've seen the WoB before but I still have issues with it. Rashek deliberately manipulated the Terris population and Noble culture to avoid anyone being able to challenge him. I cant see him leaving the possibility open, however small, for a rival from the south. My only consolation is that "seeds of the three metallic arts" still leaves wiggle room for Feruchemy not to manifest there.

It's possible, but I doubt it. The Lord Ruler was VERY careful when it came to feruchemy, I think he would have ensured all the Terris people were on his continent.

He was in Kholinar at the end of WoK. I think the first time we see him after that is when he drives the carriage for Shallan and Adolin. Assuming it take weeks at a minimum to travel to a perpendicularity and then between worlds I dont think he had enough time, despite his absences. I think his departures from the Shattered plain are for his travelling between places on Roshar, from the Plains to Kholinar and back, from the Plains to wherever Jasnah showed up etc.

I think any issues caused by Nale's oath are due to his own madness, not the oath itself. When does he say Justice is inferior? All I see in Oathbringer is him stating that the Law is flawed, but better than most alternatives. The 5th ideal then would be then when he was sufficiently just that he is the law rather than being bound by it, allowing him to apply justice to the flawed law. "I am justice" wouldn't help much as it would put him in conflict with the law, whereas "I am the law" allows him to supersede the law with his sense of justice. Of course he is insane so his sense of justice can't be trusted at the moment, and therein lies the problem.

I agree he would probably get to/from Scadrial as quick as is possible (weeks/months depending on how long the journey actually is). The issue is that upon arriving he would need to convince Harmony to Divest from Scadrial in order to confront Odium, which would be no easy task, if Harmony were to agree to it at all. I can't see him doing that, and the only other way would be to destroy Scadrial completely, which seems even more unlikely. The Fused in Shadesmar would be a threat not because they can hurt Hoid, but because they can bring Odium, who can: That is Hoid to Dalinar in WoR, if he isn't talking about Odium, I don't know who else it could be.