Jace21

I don't buy the Nightblood theory, mainly due to the fact that as powerful as it is, Odiums physical war on Roshar seems to be an exception to the norm and Nightblood would be little/no use in a shard vs shard direct fight. Endowment may be erratic due to difficulties with her intent, particularly with the Returned. She tries to "endow" following her own standards but if no suitable candidates present themselves she may be forced to compromise by her own power.

Oh I agree 100%. Just wanted to point out that he approves his own Oaths as well as those for Honorspren. I just find it interesting that it seems every other Spren, including the Stormfather, approve their own Oaths. Except Honorspren. Of course this could all be wrong once we have more information.

Seems obvious, but Bondsmith too since he accepts Dalinar's oaths. We don't see him involved in any of the other orders oaths.

This isnt actually known for sure either, depending on how you define "surges". But Ashyn was destroyed by misuse of a system that operated on similar principles fo surgebinding.

For me it depends on the mental and physical enhancements a steelrunmer gets outside of the base speed increase. I do think the Seer would probably lose but could survive a while depending on how easy it is for a steelrunner to change what their doing once commited.

I am in the camp that Kal is actually better off alone at the moment and then when he does enter a relationship, it shoukd be someone with a lot less issues than any of Shallans personas. But maybe eventually Kal and a non-Shallan Veil could have worked.

I agree that her decision to become "the perfect daughter" was probabky the last time the "true" Shallan emerged fully. I have always read it as maskShallan being the "original" Shallan but with a lot of traits buried. Her rogueishness, pride, daring, adventurousness etc. that formed part of her personality were buried, along with her fears, guilt and insecurities, creating the "perfect daughter" persona. Some of the more positive traits slipped out sometimes when she felt comfortable, such as with her brothers, and some of her personal issue manifested more when under stress or confronted with a direct reminder. She has then put the buried positive traits, along with added things, into Radiant and Veil, which along with maskShallan became full personas. But she won't become "Shallan" again until she accepts Radiant and Veil's strengths as her own and also truly accepts her past and her weaknesses. Despite the 4th ideal and Radiant and Veil having their own issues, I still think Shallan's inability to deal with her past is stopping the issues being fully resolved. Not a pyschologist but thats my take on it.

Yeah, Hoids immortality and general weirdness predate the shattering. I have a tendancy to attribute anything inexlicable about Hoid to pre-shattering shenanigans, but we won't find out more until Brandon rewrites Dragonsteel since the original is going to be heavily reworked.

As @Invocation said, there are sentient Splinter on/from other worlds that are similar but "Spren" is a Rosharan term. As for the other planets in the Rosharan System, there are likely Voidspren on Braize, at least between Desolations, but we don't know about Ashyn.

Even that might not work. Nale believes in the right of conquest after all and since Vasher/Kalad/Peacegiver won the Manyway Vasher may be able to pardon himself. Especially when you consider the Godking is just looking after Peacegivers Treasure until he comes back for it. He could still actually count as the head of state. I doubt Vasher could be killed by Nale for anything that happened pre-Roshar.

The Spren animating it left after it was crippled by multiple Shardbearers. The Spren didnt die and the "look" almost certainly wouldnt have worked pre-crippling. And Renarin is weird, we dont know if that contributed. The other two are no more impressive than metallic arts users have done. Speculation. We have no idea whwt the Heralds healing powers were. They were fueled directly by Honor, not Stormlight. Unlimited Stormlight makes you essentially unkillable and the Heralds died a lot. Multiple times to Thunderclast, who the Lord Ruler can match for strength easily with feruchemy. He has had 1000 years to compound I am willing to bet his fuel is as good limitless, as in, he can kill anyone that is killable before he runs out. The fastest burning one is pewter but he'll be relying on Feruchemy for physical attributes anyway. It would be incredibly tough/impossible to soulcast the Lord Ruler, the metals in his stomach or his metalminds. Could work but its hard to say definitively that the Elsecaller would be the biggest threat.

Oh I absolutely agree that they could and probably would. I was just pointing out that from what little we know about the Heralds personalities, it wouldn't surprise me if they wore shoes either. No, the main reason I am not impressed is because his known powers aren't particularly scary. Even if we let him hurt people then he is a mistborn/ 1st ideal lightweaver of the 2nd heightening. No where near full born level. Even if you factor in his vague, imprecise way of predicting events and realmatic knowledge I can't see it overcoming the power gap. Which is why, outside of his immortality I don't find him that impressive. I love him, but until more powers are shown it is only his immortality/ivulnerability that makes him Godlike, nothing else. Faulty logic. Based on what we know of a Herald/Radiants capabilities and the capabilities of Voidbringers, particularly in early despolations before they mastered the surges, the more logical leap is that the Heralds were not as powerful as they seem. They had unlimited power from Honor, sure, but what was the rate they were limited to? The Fused seem to have unlimited Voidlight but still can't accelerate as fast as Kaladin, presumably because while they never run out, they are limited in how much they can use in one go. Maybe the Heralds were the same. There is also the fact that unlimited Stormlight makes you practically unkillable whereas the Heralds repeatedly died, possibly before the Fused even got surges. Clearly their direct line to Honor did not equate to unlimited power. And since the Lord Ruler and Voidbringers have varying styles and provide completely different power sets, the ability to beat or not beat one of them doesn't necessarily relate to beating the other.

Except neither Sotrmlight or Aons (specifically) match the case of what metal is on Scadrial. Stormlight is consumed because it is the fuel, not the focus. We don't know exactly what it is, most people favir either Bonds, Spren or gems, but none are consumed through Stormlight use so it doesn't matter. On Sel, the focus seems to be shape or form. But Aons are not consumed inscrobed onto something permanent, Dakhor monks retain there powers without their bones being destroyed, ChayShan doesnt seem to damage your body and while Ralkalest is unForgeable, we don't hear anything about it destroying the Stamp if you attempt it. Metal is the focus for the metallic arts sure, but we have WoB that metal from any planet works so there is nothing inherently odd about Scadrial metal. And since Aluminum doesn't have the same investiture sucking effect in Feruchemy or really hemalurgy since you get the attribute, Allomancy is unique. Alumonum may be somekind of gateway to the spiritual, but it doesn't explain why it physically destroys something before any actual investiture is used. There has to be something else to its interaction with Allomancy.

Haha no worries, it happens to us all. I am willing to give Kal an advantage at range so long as it doesnt last too long. I just dont think the edge is big enough to end it quickly at range, which eventually would favor Vin. Using a combination of lashed objwcts and reverse lashings to get close could work though. Reverse Lashing vs a Steelpush is tough. Mainly because steel pushes make no sense. There have been several threads over the years about the mechanics of it and its strange. Do you know how fast a coin would have to move be able to cut into someone deeply enough to kill them? Faster than the weight of someone like Vin should be able to account for. I am inclined to think that the speed/weight behind the push would make it difficult to stop with a reverse lashing, but you could just strengthen the reverse lashing to counter it.

But it physically destroys metal on Scadrial, otherwise it would only remove stores you were burning. If it were a just a black hole into the Spiritual Realm it shouldn't effect metal not being burned, but it does.

Fair enough, I don't have access to my book, I must be getting it mixed up with another type, probably full lashing. Still, it requires constant touch so would be a fairly constant drain if used too much. You can read that as point simply meaning the way Szeth sees the direction, but either way it doesn't particularly matter. The point would be a point in space, not a person so homing projectiles are out. All basic lashings we have seen, at least from what I remember, require touch. So you almost certainly can't change the direction once you let go. That analogy doesn't really work. Vin pushes something directly away from herself, eg. in a certain direction. Kaladin lashes an object in a certain direction, he is still essentially "pushing", the accuracy is still primarily based on his own decision making. Towing something toward you only describes A-iron. He may be slightly more accurate in theory but Vin's skill with projectiles would at least balance it out. Sure but it's metal. But unless Vin runs out of metal, no way is he hurting her with one, just making it so she doesn't have to burn iron to get them back. And if she is out of metal he wins anyway. Firstly, I am pretty sure your math is off. For it to be falling at 98 m/s it would have to have been falling for 10 seconds. Which is going to take lashing it from a lot further away than 10 meters, about 40 I think. But the speed at the point it would connect wasn't my point. He wants to lash it multiple times for two reasons. 1) Because if she is far enough away that there is enough time for it to accelerate naturally by "falling" to a dangerous speed then she has plenty of time to dodge. Probably without magical assistance as it won't change direction, which means Kal is wasting Stormlight and not even forcing her to burn metals. 2) The Stormlight will wear off and cause the object to drop again. He needs the object to either have enough light to make it the whole way or make sure it is already moving fast enough that it will connect anyway. Both of which would require more than one lashing if he wants to avoid 1). I think ultimately the fight comes down to who runs out of metal/light first. I don't think either of them are likely to die before that so it depends who you think will run out of fuel first but we can't know for sure without it happening.

True but Vin can pull her projectiles back, Kal can't so will eventually run out wherever he is. He is also likley to need multiple lashings to make an effective projectile which will burn through his stormlight faster. There is also the fact that he is unlikely to immediately start a projectile fight with Vin as it isn't his preferred style. Again, true. But you have to fact in Stormlight use and reverse lashings are stornlight intensive. Kal can just dodge with stormlight but its all Stormlight use that adds up. Vin can switch between 3 metals to dodge, giving her the edge when it comes to fuel. I believe it is just a direction, which wouldnt be any more accurate than Vin, since he has a lot less practice and cant change it's direction once he lets go, whereas Vin can just by moving or by pulling it back and shooting again. I am not saying Kaladin would definitely lose but I give Vin the edge based on her fuel most likely lasting longer. Kal's best hope is burn his stormlight to make it into melee range alive and hope fof the instakill. Once we get to the bonus round and fuel ceases to be an issue, its Kal all the way.

Just to nitpick but technically thr WoB only means they were together when they arrived. There is enough wiggle room that Vasher could have arrived with someone else, and the someone else had Nightblood. Technically they still wouldnt have been "seperated" until after they arrive.

Yeah, her lack of urgency in pursuing Vasher combined with the fact she never names the "criminal" that brought Nighblood made me suspicious as well. I lean toward Vasher not being the criminal, but I could be wrong. A member of the Ghostbloods or a non-ghostblood henchman of Yesteel to be revealed in Nightblood are my guesses.

I believe there is, when Vin and Elend meet with Straff and she wipes his emotions completely. The main effect would be that Kal would almost certainly stop moving and at that point Vin could probably hit him fast enough to keep him pinned until his Stornlight ran out, even once the emotional allomancy wore off. May not work, but even if it didn't kill him and just forced heavy stormlight use it could be a factor.

Considering WoB says that Atium is a Fortune affect, then Fortune vs Atium should work the same as Atium vs Atium. They will interfere with one another. But without access to fortune a mistborn with atium will still see your shadow's, regardless of where you're from.

You're probably right, but I could also see powerful, majestic beings worshiped as gods believing it was beneath their dignity to go around barefoot. And a few seconds to de-shoe could make all the difference. I am pretty much the only one who feels this way, but while I love Hoid, he hasn't impressed me from a power-level yet. In my opinion his seeming immortality and invulnerability are no more impressive then Rashek's but his outward manifestations of investiture are not as notable. I would give the edge to Rashek as a God over Hoid for that reason. True but they also died a lot and were eventually joined by a group that shared many of the same powers while clearly being normal men. Simply by being more mysterious the Lord Ruler comes across as the most God-like I think, at least if you compare their treatment by people of their words. I am also unsure the it was the traditional surges that destroyed Ashyn, or just another outward manifestation of investiture they call "surges". The same way Rosharans call several different things "spren". But to go back to the OP, I still put Rashek/Fullborn first, followed by pre-aharietiam Heralds, then Mistborn with Atium, then by prepared Elantrians, followed by everyone else.

I believe Kaladin was barefoot, so this only works if the Heralds fight without shoes. It's a legitimate point though, probably the only way with even a chance of slowing Rashek in time.

I know, but that's not what I said. I said that whatever binds the Shards to their word could also bind Hoid. The Shards promised not to interfere with one another. Hoid didn't so can do as he wishes. My proposal was that Hoid had previously made a seperate promise, not to harm anyone, that is independent of the Shard Agreement but enforced by the same rules. If anything the excerpt from "The Traveler" suggests that if Hoid had made that promise, he would be bound by it. He just didn't make it.

First 4, I give the edge to Vin. The Shardblade is an issue but I still maintain she can cause enough damage fast enough that he would run out of stormlight before she runs out of metal. Bonus round is all Kaladin. Unlimited stormlight makes it unkillable with just the basic 8 metals, no matter the quantities.