alder24

Ohhh, I like this! Yes, it makes sense in that context.

Did Adonalsium ever had the Vessel, or was it just investiture that gained sentience on its own, Vesselless? We don't know. Hoid seems to be the type that does not want to hold that kind of power - he rejected an offer to become a Shard during the Shattering, I don't think he will become Adonalsium if it needs a Vessel. I personally believe Adonalsium was without any Vessel. I see Cosmere going in either of two paths - reformation of Adonalsium, or Splintering Shard to even smaller pieces, so no mortal would ever be able to hold powers of gods in their hands. Reformation of Adonalsium seems like a too obvious thing to end up this way and I certainly don't want to see Hoid wielding the power of all 16 Shards combined.

I guess they just need to touch. Just like Antimatter needs to just touch matter it will interact and annihilate. However Brandon did state that physical form of investiture is more resilient to gaseous anti-investiture. But also that trying to ingest solid anti-investiture would be like pouring molten metal into your mouth - it would destroy your soul. So we don't know in the end. I would say touching is enough if both investiture and anti-investiture are in the same state, or anti-investiture is in the denser state. Well, we've seen Dor outside of Sel and it's a liquid.

It would be interesting to read about it, but I think that's too far in the past to be influential to SA5-10. Right now Shallan might be on her way to free BAM in KoWT and this would not matter that much in the backhalf books. What I think will happen is that KoWT will end in peace or some kind of ceasefire and the prologue of SA5-10 will be about the event that restarted the conflict and brought it to another devastating level. But that’s too obvious so who knows.

I don't think he needed Preservation for that. Realmatic Theory was a part of ancient Terris religion. Kwaan was able to travel to CR and that alone is enough to realize how metal looks for an entity watching it from outside of PR. It glows. If it glows in CR it means that it can't be read. Even Kelsier in SH immediately realized that metal and souls are the same thing. This is simple enough for Kwaan to reach that conclusion as well, especially if he knew about both Preservation and Ruin and their true nature, just like the First Generation of Kandra knew that (admittedly some of that might have come from Rashek after Ascension, but I think it's clear that ancient Terris was still aware of Ruin). Cosmere spoilers:

I think aluminum around the stomach might interfere with your Allomancy, especially steel and iron as those come from that area. What about small watch like primer cubes charged with A-copper? You just turn it on and off when you need it and it won't mess your Allomancy.

This table literally differentiates between pure Atium and its alloys. And you just ignored the WoB I've given to you which quite definitely prove that what Elend experienced IS the same effect pure Atium gives you and that the table IS talking about the real pure Atium effect. That was already after the retcon happened, Peter clearly stated that it is older than people assume in that WoB. Did you even read it?

Oh I love that idea! @Trusk'our what do you think?

To add more, the Dustbringers book in SA will have Ash as the primary flashback character, so it has been theorized that in the future Ash will become a Dustbronger. She keeps destroying stuff and she can't control that, which fits to the main theme of Dustbringers which is to master and self-control your destructive abilities, although this is Heralds madness doing, it won't be as easily solvable as joining Radiant order, as evident by Nale.

This is the Stormlight Archive forum only, spoilers from other books like TSM should not be discussed here, but in the Cosmere Discussion sub-forum. I will ask mods to move it there for you. TSM: Well, Honor is now broken. Or it's all about Odium, as Odium is damaged too because of his fights. You don't have to unite all Shards to create the Broken One (how would that be the Broken One), just unite Honor's broken pieces or Ascend to some of them, like maybe what Dalinar did in OB. Moreover Dalinar alone can unite and merge Shards together as a Bondsmith, he doesn't need any Dawnshards for that: Anyway I think it's possible for someone to unite all 3 Shards of Roshar, Cosmere might aim in that direction IF Adonalsium is ever to be restored. However I think it's more likely that just Odium and Honor will merge without merging with Cultivation. To Ascend to a Shard one has to have a very strong Connection to it and deep understanding of its nature - just because Dalinar was touched by Cultivation doesn't mean he has this strong Connection and needed understanding of what Cultivation represents. I doubt he would be able to Ascend to that Shard. But in my opinion he is well fitted to both Odium and Honor.

We do know what pure Atium does - it was written on the Allomantic table. Pure Atium grants expansive vision of the future and enhances one's mind to process that information. Even in WoBs it was stated that we've seen the same effect when Elend burns Atium-electrum alloy with duralumin; pure Atium does the same thing. It pulls you into SR allowing you to see the future in its fullest. https://coppermind.net/w/images/Table_of_Allomantic_Metals.jpeg

Disagree. Atium shows you the future, not knowledge directly, just the future and gives you the ability to comprehend it. Just because you want something doesn't mean it will happen in your future - all you might see is that you will never achieve what you're looking for. It's not knowledge you gain, it's the future which becomes open to you, thus providing you with information to make a decision at the right moment. But Atium will NOT give you the precise way and words of the Command to Awaken another Nightblood, it may ONLY show you the way to achieve that among thousands of possible ways where you won't do that, if it's even possible for you. But then we don't know to what extend Atium shows you the future, or rather whose future Atium shows you - yours like electrum does, someone else's like Atium-electrum alloy, or both? This detail might make it more restrictive. Seeing the future is powerful and very dangerous, not just for your opponents but for you as well. Relying on your own future sight too much will blind you and will eventually cause your downfall, as you will for sure miss a possibility, or your vision will be clouded by someone else's future sight. We've seen this multiple times in books, the future is not set in metal and seeing it doesn't make you invincible, nor will your wishes come true. It takes an infinite mind to comprehend what you see, Atium brings you nowhere near that level, even Shards are short of if and they've been misled by their own future sight on many occasions. Relying too much on a fragile and distant maybe is very risky. Too risky. That's why I will choose Lerasium - not just for Mistborn powers, but for the ability to modify my spirit web. That's more powerful than an uncertain and distant possibility once seen with Atium.

Yes, but as said by Duxredux, the spren can just break the bond at will. You can steal a dead Shardblade, but if you want to steal Surgebinding powers, you would have to steal both the bond from a Radiant (which is Connection) and the power from a spren, which would require you to use two spikes. We don't know. They can be quite small or irregular, but I guess they have to be small enough to precisely pierce the binding point you're aiming for. Hitting two different binding points at once would make the spike not work - heart has 4 points for example. No, the power is contained in the spike, it's not really a part of your soul, as it's not yours. It's in the spike so you would have to take that spike out and spike yourself with it to get that power. We don't know. Some theorize that it creates an ideal copy of a memory, some think it creates a vision-like state in which you can relive that memory, but we don't know in the end. By Brandon's words, not every attribute compounded does something spectacular or useful.

This, this is precisely why it matters. Atium doesn't fit. Everyone in the world always wondered about how weird Atium is compared to other metals and that was a clue that Elend and Vin needed to realize something weird is happening. Vin didn't know Leras' plan. She was surprised that Elend somehow found a whole army capable of burning Atium. She had no idea what was needed to be done. HoA ch 81: The out-of-universe reason is that Brandon wanted it that way so it happened. You can't really consider out-of-universe reason as all explanations can do is to point out in-universe reason. And that simply is that Mistborn weren't needed. Mistborn would be a distraction. Elend had never burnt Atium before, he knew Atium for its economic value, not as a powerful weapon - he was a Mistborn but wasn't thinking like a Mistborn. If Demoux was a Mistborn, the vials of metals he got to burn would work and Elend would have never questioned why Demoux was Snapped. Elend only started to think of burning Atium after he started to think why Demoux was unable to burn his vial of metals: The whole reason Elend was able to connect the dots, was because Demoux was unable to burn any other metals and all other clues regarding the number 16 appearing over and over again. If Preservation had thrown Mistborn into the mix, there would be no 16, there would be no thinking "why Demoux wasn't able to burn anything," there would be no burning entire Atium stock away. There would be just an army of Mistborn. Moreover even earlier If Demoux and his men were turned into Mistborn, they might have realized this earlier at some point (just like Vin, from traces amounts of metals) and Elend would have never sent them back to Luthadel, they would have never ended at the place where Atium was. Moreover, Preservation had set Mistsnapping to work without his intervention, as he knew he would lose his mind. It had to work as well as it could and forcing it to Snap Mistborn would just strain the system, require too much power and it could be potentially more deadly than normal Snapping as more power had to be pushed into people, giving Ruin a better opportunity to twist it. I fully believe that Snapping Mistborn would not work to fulfill Preservation's plan - it's not a sign as obvious as Mistings, no number 16, no thinking "what metal could they be able to burn" etc. Oh, so I have no explanation that would satisfy you, if that's what you mean. He did that every 1024 years, he prepared someone to take up the power to use it to maintain the status quo. This was solely because his mind was gone and he was unable to remember what his end plan was. He didn't act because of his plan, he acted because he wanted to prevent Ruin from escaping and only that mattered for him at this point. He only hoped that once Ruin escapes, his plan would be enough to stop him, not knowing what it was. Just go back and reread the first few chapters. Leras keeps repeating that Ruin can't escape, that Vin has to use the power and he is working only to prepare Vin for her role in maintaining the prison. He was totally stunned and frightened when Rashek died. Leras was dead at this point, he was unable to work on his plan that he didn't remember. Kelsier was just a happy accident that ultimately proved to be what his plan needed. The thing with Rashek wasn't pre-planned action, it was a last ditch attempt to stop Alendi from freeing Ruin after Leras had realized that Alendi won't do what he should have done. It happened with Vin as well - Sazed was Leras' failed attempt to stop Vin from freeing Ruin, but this time Ruin was ready for it and had Marsh in a position to stop Sazed - something that he missed during Alendi's times. I don't believe that Preservation's plan was specifically about Vin and Sazed, rather it was general enough to help people win against Ruin, no matter when Ruin is freed. If Vin were to use the power of the Well instead of releasing it, the plan would still exist 1024 years later and other people would be there to act on it. The plan was just a hope, a hope that people would see clues left for them and use them against Ruin. It might not have worked as well as it worked with Vin and Sazed, but there would still be people capable of doing what was necessary to do - because all people on Scadrial have both Ruin and Preservation on them, all are capable to destroy to protect just like Vin did, all are capable to understand the nature of both Shards as they all are made of their essence. That's also how the future sight works, it gives you possibilities, not certain futures. Predicting how one specific person would be able to Ascend seems too much, but predicting someone, sometime will do this, if proper actions are taken and clues are left for them feels just right to me. If Alendi were to free Ruin, who knows, it might have ended with Rashek as a dual-Vessel. Or maybe Kwaan who back then played the same role as Sazed? Either way, I believe the plan was general enough to allow for some person to Ascend to both Ruin and Preservation if the time had come, but their success would depend heavily on them and their actions. The plan was to give people hope and relied on their hearts - not specifically on Vin or Sazed. In different times there would be others like them. Yes, Leras knew Ati's escape was inevitable, but he hoped he could have delayed it this time as well, just like he delayed it 1024 years ago with Alendi and Rashek. He didn't know it would happen now. Just as it happened with Alendi, WoB above. Rashek was the prophesied Hero of the Ages - as per Terris original prophecies (WoB above). In my opinion Rashek, Vin and Sazed were all Hero of the Ages, but each had a different role to play. If Rashek took up the power again, he would have prevented Ruin from escaping, delaying the plan for another 1024 years - and that's what Leras at this time wanted. You said it yourself, Leras was at this point just a shadow of a Vessel he once was, his mind was mostly gone and he was unable to act on the plan he created himself. The plan was meant to give people hope and a fighting chance against Ruin without Leras's intervention, as he knew he would be dead by that point. It's fine to disagree. This is my interpretation of how Preservation's plan was set up, Terris prophecies and Hero of Ages title, the sources give us enough wiggle room to interpret them differently as we want. We probably will never see the full picture, so that's what we have to do. It's fun to read your interpretation. I'm glad to see you were enjoying the story and shedding new light for you on events of Era 1.

I think they are the same process but on different levels. Both invest and corrupt with Odium's investiture, but Unmaking seems bigger than Enlightening. Moreover Unmaking isn't just about investing, it's about ripping the mind to pieces, Transforming the soul - Sja-Anat fears she will be Unmade by Odium if he ever catches her red handed. RoW I-2: And because Unmaking Sja-Anat would cost Odium a useful tool, it seems like Unmaking is losing investiture in the process, it's a subtractive process. On the other hand Glys doesn’t remember the moment of Enlightening well, but he’s never said if he forgot everything before it. I feel like an eternal True Spren would never agree to be essentially killed if Enlightening would be like Unmaking. To me at least it seems like Enlightening isn’t that brutal as Unmaking and it just changes the spren, without killing them, stealing their memories or destroying their mind - it’s additive, their gaining a piece of Odium’s investiture, while the rest of their soul remain still of Honor and Cultivation - Unmades are of Odium, at least mostly. However we have too little information to determine how similar those processes are. But I agree, they are essentially the same, based on the same mechanism of corruption.

I think it's possible for Harmonium to change property. Harmonium is unstable because it represents two halves of Sazed that aren't fitted together well. If as a Discord he manages to mix them better than Harmony, Harmonium might become more stable, if not it should not change at all. The name will probably change to Discodrium no matter what. Either way both options are likely, it depends. But a perpendicularity would stay as it is - unless he chooses to relocate it, or create a new one. A perpendicularity is not about the nature of a Shard, it's just a result of a massive concentration of investiture in one place, that pierces realms. Edit: Properties of a god metal are linked to the Intent (and intents of both Shards Ruin and Preservation that made Harmony/Discord), location of a perpendicularity is not - it's either deliberately chosen spot, or natural manifestation because there was a lot of investiture in that area (like for example there was Ruin's perpendicularity in the Pits of Hathsin, which was destroyed when Kelsier destroyed the Pits - no investiture, no perpendicularity).

I don't think so. Sja-anat Corrupting Oathgate spren was already edging on her limits - she was never able to Corrupt such a powerful spren before. Unmades are vastly more powerful than Oathgate spren. They would be comparably invested to her and that should make them too hard to corrupt. It's unknown if she can reverse the enlightenment of a spren. It seems like this is permanent - she invests/corrupts them with Odium's investiture. That's out of the question. She is just a tiny Splinter of Odium compared to the full power of a Shard. Shardic power is basically infinite. Sja-Anat knows Odium can destroy her, if he even catches her betraying him.

I believe so, but only if a Shard is without a Vessel at that moment. You wouldn't be able to Ascend to a Shard that has a Vessel. But as seen by the example of Kelsier, just because he had strong enough Connection to Ascend, it doesn't mean he was a good Vessel - the Shard resisted him as he didn't understand the nature of Preservation. It nearly slipped out of his hands a few times. Connection is just one thing, understanding and strong will are also needed to properly control a Shard. Yes. We don't know.

I think they would make a sunheart charged with corrupted investiture, as cinderhearts are made out of corrupted investiture.

True, you're right, my mistake.

@JustQuestin2004 answered your questions already, but I'm gonna do what I do the best - add more and throw some WoBs at you! There is a limit on how many spikes a soul can handle. The more spikes you have, the greater the mental and physical impacts of them are on you. They break you down, they crack your soul - that's why with many spikes a linchpin spike is needed as it holds your soul together. After the Catacendre the limit is 4 spikes, after which a soul would reject any new spikes, but the Set found the way to sidestep this limit by using a Trellium spike, which allowed them to have 5 spikes. But there are ways of magnifying a charge of one spike, you can potentially even steal multiple powers with a single spike, or multiple chargers, but this was not discovered yet. TLM Ars Arcanum: A molten metal can still be used in Metallic Arts, but that's not a pleasant experience. However just melting a spike down, reshaping and letting it cool down won't change the charge of the spike and it would still be usable, with some decay happening. Alloying it with another metal would mess things up. Just like in metalminds, the charge is tied to the atomic structure of a metal. If you take an iron spike that holds strength and mix it with carbon to get a steel spike, that charge is now not aligned with the atomic structure of a spike, as steel steals physical Allomantic powers. So the charge would be there, but you most likely won't be able to use it. If you then melt that steel spike down and separate iron from carbon, the iron spike would regain its usability. However, It's worth noticing that Hemalurgy might be different than how it works with Metalminds - in BoM it was said that ReLuur's Blessings are made out of pewter (steals physical Feruchemical powers), which is not a metal used for Blessings. Moreover Paalm (Lessie) had her one spike made out of Trellium, charged with either Allomancy or Feruchemy, that worked like a Blessing to her. We don't know how they made it, or what was ReLuur's Blessing charged with, but this shows us that there are other uses for metals outside of what the HoA Hemalurgic table has shown us, and it's possible that melting and alloying a charged spike might not make it unusable, as it would happen with Metalminds. Binding Points and Intent plays a crucial role in Hemalurgy, so you might be able to do fancy stuff with metals outside of their traditional use. We don't have a full picture yet. This is something that Brandon keeps for the future books. What we know is that Identity works like some kind of encryption key, that codes investiture to a person, so that only they can use it. A Feruchemist fills a metalmind that only he can use, because investiture in that metalmind is keyed to them via Identity. If you steal Identity you would be able to use all metalminds, Breaths, or some other investiture they were using, IF you also have that power yourself. So if you are a Feruchemist, you would be able to use all metalminds of a person you've stolen Identity from. But stealing anything from them will carry a part of their identity, often enough so you can also use their metalminds - so just stealing their Feruchemical powers will give you enough of their Identity that you would be able to access their metalminds of this specific power you have stolen (and powers you already have). What's more, is that the victim if they survive, now would likely have no Identity at all. That makes them susceptible to all kinds of interactions in Cosmere. But also it might be possible that for example if they retain their Feruchemical powers, they would be creating from this point on unkeyed metalminds - metalminds that all other Feruchemist with that power can access. Being without Identity also makes it easier for you to use someone else's stuff, but some other steps might be needed too. Moreover, Identity seems to be tied to healing in a big way, so by stealing someone else's Identity, you might be able to change the way you can heal yourself. This is more speculative but Brandon confirmed that healing is affected by Identity in some way. BoM ch 3:

Hmm I don't think so, but I don't really have anything. You ingest every god metal, just like every god metal can be used in Hemalurgy or Feruchemy, but that's the nature of Metallic Arts specifically which are focused on metals. Burning god metals however isn't of Allomancy, but in my mind Allomancy and burning god metals use the same mechanism to get the power into the soul. So I think you have the opposite way of thinking - because god metals are metals they can be used in Metallic Arts, as those three arts are uniquely focused on metals. I was writing my incoherent thoughts here, but they didn't really make any sense. I just stop here, after trying to rewrite it several times now - my mind clearly isn't in shape today. I just feel like what you are proposing is too much, but I can't really put a finger on the issue here. God metals are more about investiture in general, less about their specific invested art. They aren't tied to their magic system, they don't have it, they are tied to their Shard who manifests in a few different ways - physical investiture is just one manifestation of a Shard, invested art is another one. Oh yes, my bad. Buuuut being nitpicky here, Eland did strike Marsh at the end, but chose to not kill him because he knew Marsh had to kill him. So you can still fight using pure Atium's future sight and get the outcome you want. The way I see it is that Lerasium forges a Connection to something - in its pure form it Connects you to Preservation, which makes you a Mistborn. In alloyed forms this is overwritten and it Connects you to a Shard associated with the second alloy component, like to Autonomy if you mixed it with Bavadinium. And because Connection is what often grants you invested arts, you gain them when burning alloyed Lerasium. So in my opinion the side effect is that you gain invested arts, but the main effect that you can do fancy stuff with is that Learsium changes your spirit web and forges a Connection. I believe it would make you into a Feruchemist. We know Allomancy happens because of the Preservation's extra investiture in people's souls, Feruchemy however is a balanced system between two Shards. It seems to me that to have Feruchemy, you have to be extra investiture of Ruin and Preservation in equal amounts. Scadrians have one already. Lerasium-Atium alloy's effect is overwritten with Atium's power, so if Lerasium invests you with Preservation's investiture, Lerasium-Atium might invest you with Ruin's investiture, equalizing Preservation's fragment and making you into a Feruchemist. That's my thoughts at least. The wording of this WoB, specifically the "instead of Ruin" seems to slightly point in that direction.

I mean this part: "Sometimes the bond allows it to kind of bypass some of this." The bond does allow the magic to get into your soul, no matter if it's cracked or not. That's why "crazy is not required." Broken soul and cracks are the same in my mind. You don't need to have any cracks in your soul to bond an Aviar, you don't need anything to Awaken or hold Breaths etc - in general cracks in soul aren't always needed, for Radiants what matters the most is the will of a spren as the Nahel Bond allows the power to get into your soul even with no cracks in it. I think Kaladin couldn't do anything not only because of the state in which his bond was, but also because after he had fallen into chasms, the Stormfather took Syl and prevented her from going back to Kaladin. Agreed.

The Spiritual Realm is not a place, it's not somewhere you can go. In the Spiritual Realm distance and space is irrelevant, time and space are compound into one. You can't enter into the Spiritual Realm, but you can look into it through a Perpendicularity - that's the closest you can get to SR. What looking directly into SR would do? Elend did it at the end of HoA - he saw the past and the future, so that's something that might happen if you do this in a Perpendicularity. WoBs:

You mean Honorblades grant access to Honor's magic or Tanavastium do that when burnt? The latter is unconfirmed. Not on its own - you need to alloy it with Lerasium. And because of this WoB I don't think burning pure god metals will give you their Shard's invested arts. Alloying them with Lerasium will do that, but alone that won't work in most cases. But assisting in their respected invested arts? More likely. It's less direct, unlike Lerasium and allows for a broader spectrum of possibilities. God metals are condensated power of Shards, they do one specific thing, connected to their Shard. I find it ironic that Atium grants enhanced future vision when Ruin is not so good at looking at the future, but that allows a person to be a perfect killing machine, which is fully aligned with Ruin. Atium helping with Hemalurgy is more like an accidental bonus in my opinion, than a true purpose of it - any ability that allows you to see the future helps with Hemalurgy, it doesn't have to come from Ruin. I would expect god metals to be more similar to Atium in what they are doing, than to Lerasium. Lerasium seems to be more unique in its ability to forge Connections and rewrite spirit web. It wouldn't be very original if all god metal do what Lerasium does - what's the point of Lerasium-Bavadinium alloy if Bavadinium alone can do the same? Lerasium-Atium alloy can most likely rewrite your spirit web with the power of Ruin, Atium doesn't do it on its own. All god metals do something else, but aligned with their Shard's intents.